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Fish, your comparing apples to oranges.
The capital requirement has been known for a long time. Financial disclosures of an off-balance sheet item is dictated by certain legal and regulatory requirements.
For example, if you just put a downpayment for a house, you don't legally own the property until you have paid of the principal and interest requirements for the title.
If JPM did not own the mortgages or securities but had only servicing rights, then at the disposal of the securities JPM cannot legally lay claim to the funds.
Now the question is does WMI have a claim to those funds through it securitization subsidiary, I don't know but I know that most banks would package securities and hold 30% in house and sell 70% of the mortgage assets as paper.
You can't keep the money (mortage assets) for what you never owned (Title).
Lol expected but not realized losses.
Am going to seat back for reconciliation by FDIC-R.
Wow your really pulling teeth trying to justify your assertion about what it means to be bankrupt.
You cannot be determined to be bankrupt under any kind of financial analysis if your current assets far exceeds your current liabilities.
I just can't stand the constant having to say am right and your wrong banter.
If your in doubt get a financial book and prove me wrong.
I posted about not being bankrupt based on liabilities and you posted about valuation as a response.
GLTY.
I just had to respond to you.
Because assets is not equal to liabilities does not make you bankrupt. If your short term liabilities are more than your assets then you are in trouble.
Liabilities are tricky that way. For example, I have an $500,000 mortgage (Liability) but my monthly liability is $1,500. There's is no way I'm bankrupt unless the bank calls in the entire mortgage tomorrow morning.
A bank has perpetual life span that's why some notes where due in 2035.
For discussion sake, the $1.1B liability might only be a 5% yearly liability. Therefore the bank pays interest of $55M yearly which is nothing compared to the dough made through their retail banking, credit card, mortgage and investment banking divisions.
Please you need to look at the last quarterly statement and see how much WMB made just in retail banking in fees and charges and remember that JPM called the retail banking division of WMB the crown jewel because of the markets they were already servicing.
Now someone wants to convince me that the crown jewel was worth only $1.9B.
GLTY.
Exactly, that what holding companies do.
I don't get the oppositions quick rush to jump down on every single document posted that would support that the holding companies do the financing and packaging and the bank provide the servicing responsibilities.
GLTY.
Why do you care what another man is billing?
I don't spend my time on such trivial issues.
Comparing his billing to the potential recoveries it's a ddop in the bucket.
Don't be deceived. If the FDIC was so sure, why don't they close the book on PA&A?
If there's no a single dime to had why continue to extend the status of WMLT?
If you think that the trust is a slush fund for lawyers that's your opinion and your sure entitled to one. My opinion is that things have to be resolved to close everything together.
Now tell that shadowy rose that everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Lol your not telling me anything new here.
I know very well they are not the same. My claim is you cannot claim the PA&A is solely between only FDIC & JPM when FDIC-R were never released.
We have an indirect interest to the PA&A whether you like it or not. Until the PA&A is officially closed then we can talk.
Facts can be very thorny. Don't get pricked by the rose.
Lol before I destroy your argument are you claiming that the FDIC-C and FDIC-R are the same have the same responsibilities?
Answer that and maybe I can waste a little more of my valuable time.
Rosen failed miserably on the most critical measure of this BK.
He couldn't zero out equity.
You can leave in his shadow but he failed to also deliver the NOLs to the SNH.
We got the last laugh. By we I mean EQUITY.
No I don't have to explain anything to you because WMI had auditors and audited financial statements.
How come none of those numbers where ever provided by the debtors?
Why didn't the BOD fight the sale and seizure?
I don't have the time for explaining because it not my job to explain how the process of accountability works.
And FYI I own more shares now than at the exit.
My focus is double pronged, WMIH successful implementation of its strategic acquisition plans to utilize the valuable NOLs and the closure of the books by WMLT.
Am sorry Rosey shadow, the PA&A was between the FDIC-Corporate. FDIC-Receiver has to account for the actual book value of the assets.
Get that straight. FDIC-R were never released.
You keep moving the goalpost. You wanted links and you got them now your requesting analysis.
I'm going to help you and Rosen's shadow with a simple analysis.
Article XII of the PA&A calls for assets to appraised at book value.
Have you and Rosen's shadow since this analysis?
If you've seen it then the FDIC should announce the closure and end to PA&A.
Since you are better informed and Rosen is smart enough to explain everything why would they extend the trust for another 3 years? if not a dime left to distribute or any form of recovery. The prudent thing would be to shut everything down.
You don't get it. The debtors should have filed. We did not an EC until much later in the game.
And when we got the EC, the mofos had worked out the first global settlement agreement.
I understand your frustration with SG but they fought a good fight but the debtors were suppressing and not supporting their efforts for proper accounting and shielding of assets.
Am not going to spend time explaining, am waiting for the FDIC-R to close the books. Article XII of the PA&A clearly states that assets have to be sold at book value.
Now we wait.
Yea and JPM called the branches the crown jewel.
Go figure.
Yes, the colorable claims was at least clear to the Judge.
My hope is how come the TPS group that had very good claims for their trust preferred securities suddenly after deposing the EC requested 5% more and went silent.
You cannot request 5% more of crap and be happy. Baffles me till today because, they actually had assets backing those trust securities and accepted 5% more to be at the same level with Ps.
like you say, things that make you go hmmmmm.
As much as I hate to admit it, you are right. We are more like fleas.
There's no way for small shareholders to vote out the board of directors or be an activist investor like Carl. Hedgefunds and Mutual funds control the seats for most major companies.
GLTY.
So you are saying the Bkshadow is the authority on any about the bankruptcy filings.
That document clearly speaks for itself. If there are different interpretations that's ok because you are not privy to the work product that was the framework of the filing.
No one is an inside expert here. So the differing points of views are acceptable.
GLTY.
Name 2.
1. Brian Rosen - Equity is getting zero.
2. The creditor group that were hoping to steal the NOLs too.
I can go on and on with the people that claimed that equity was out of the money and should be zeroed out but here we are with markers and wmih shares.
Exactly, that's what I 've been trying to let him and Bk know.
They persistently claim every single detail of the transaction has been declared and when you ask them where is the reconciliation stating what was sold and for what book value they go silent.
Don't you find it funny that we are in 6th year and FDIC hasn't closed the book.
GLTY.
Accounting equation.
Assets = Liabilities + Equity.
We are in good shape. We just need to know what assets and liabilities that the FDIC-R transferred and what was left to the estate.
How many times do I have to keep correcting you?
The bank was never insolvent. They were illiquid.
I mean, read the original BK filing.
That's the problem. Creditors were paid 100% plus full interest.
The Judge even denied EC's motion for all creditors to be paid at the federal judgment rate.
I mean some here think the Judge was honorable lol.
There was clear BK fraud, and they wanted to cover their tracks with the Piers.
Oh well. GLTA.
Lol. Let me keep you on the straight and narrow.
The filing clearly states that WMB was well capitalized several times but you interpreted that line as WMB was worthless.
I mean common. We ain't fools here.
Now here's the genius of the lawsuit. The directors would have to prove that the bank was either insolvent or well capitalized. If it was well capitalized why downstream the holding company assets. Was someone trying to gift more assets to JPM like a saboteur.
If the bank was well capitalized, it would now become a matter of fact for going after other parties.
Lol yeah they'll use the EC arguments in the BK against them.
Did you read the complaints? I mean do you have to have an issue with any move by the WMILT.
They stated that the bank was well capitalized and solvent. The problem was liquidity.
Instead of doenstreaming the holding company cash, they could have prepared to be seized as a matter of management and risk analysis while they quickly moved to create liquidity of the bank assets.
If you know you are having liquidity issues they could have moved to FED window and put the assets down as collateral.
I mean am not a financial risk manager and I know this. The mortgage backed securities could have been tendered as collateral but they were off balance sheet.
They were able to get TPG to provide $7Billion in liquidity. They could have sold some of the bank assets without wasting the holding company assets.
That's what's it's about. The ratings agency got a few mentions as well as Sheila by name.
They could have fought the sale and seizure of the bank assets but they all walked away.
Get your popcorn ready.
They already stated they were well capitalized but illiquid.
My concern is the FDIC is claiming they gave all the books to JPM.
Am shocked that they didn't have a copy of the records to finalize the PA&A and perform their due diligence that the final sales price is at book value.
I hope the former executives kept some records offsite and hand it over.
Did you notice the shots at JPM saying they bought the bank assets and the $500M CASH.
Did you notice the shots at the ratings agency too?
Did you notice how many times they mentioned Sheila Bair by name? Hmmmm. Her deposition will be something else if they eventually go after the FDIC.
GLTA.
That's why they are insured. The D&O would cover this.
The officers are going to go through a thorough deposition and you never know what might be said or documents provided to get them off the hook.
I still don't believe that all the holding company information are with JPM and not a single copy anywhere else.
Someone needs to speak up and tell us where all the deeds and titles are.
Here we go again.
The FDIC has to officially close the PA&A.
Large does not run the FDIC or WMIH. He provides his analysis and you can provide yours without the cheap shots.
I don't believe in all the billions but I do know 100% for certain that WMILT has a claim against the FDIC-R and posted about it long ago.
The claim is not mature until the closure of the purchase and assumption agreement.
Please don't hold back. Bless us with all that knowledge, wise one.
We will sit quietly waiting for your esteemed analysis.
Then read article VIII of the purchase and assumption agreement and tell if we got book value.
Who said it had anything to do with wmih?
What we've been saying is you cannot claim to know everything if you were not in the decision matrix.
The reference to gobbels is funny you keep repeating the same myth everytime claiming you know everything about everything. Do you know what Willingham to the TPS lawyers during his deposition? If you don't, the gobbels reference shoe is yours to wear.
You need to step back and see another angle. I listened to the hearings and the TPS could have taken their case and litigated it outside the BK arena. Could have taken longer but we already 6 years and they also haven't gotten paid.
So why not keep fighting.
There was no defeat here there was a surrender, truce and seize fire and that's a fact.
Of course we have the proof and you know it.
The TPS consortium deposed the equity committee and asked for 5% more.
Do we have the deposition papers to read what happened? No it was never released so we don't even know what Willingham told the TPS.
Why would they take 5% more of these "POS"? I mean they could have fought all the way to the supreme court.
So when you claim we know everything from filings that's not true also.
We also need to see the final P&AA for the final sales price and then we can talk.
The audited financial statements in 2007 and the quarterly 10Q tells a different story.
That's doesn't make any sense.
JPM cannot seize all companies records and WMI didn't have a backup anywhere. They would have to incompetent fools not to have iron mountain or external servers somewhere else.
Secondly, they had audited financial statements in 2007 and a quarterly statement a quarter before their seizure. The data points can't $20B to $30B wrong.
No matter what anybody says unless there are skeletons that we don't know about, WMB is not worth $1.9B. Now some will claim that ship has sailed then the FDIC should close the P&AA.
The ball is in the FDICs court now.
Simple, the status of the lawsuit is premature until after the FDIC-R administrative actions are completed.
Rosie even knows that I mean his the best lawyer money can buy.
He goes out there fighting for his clients everyday battling the forces of evil.
GLTY.
Fssh, are you telling her hands her totally clean.?
She gave herself away when she said the return of the $4B could cripple or bankrupt JPM.
Which fair Judge would make that kind of statement in open court. After all, all she needed to do was to ascertain which party the money belonged to and immediately the debtors should file a motion for JPM to return the WMI asset.
You know what the enemy was Rosen but you know we have people trying to shame people on a message board instead of the people who took the easy way out.
GLTY.
No our claim is not matured until the FDIC completes their administrative work.
And Rosie took the path of least resistance and even tried to gift WMI assets to JPIG.
Why didn't the $4B deposit get returned to the estate?
You don't have to say anything because everything was settled in GSA right and the EC signed off too.
So we filed for BK and we had $4B deposit at the bank and $25B at WMFSB in CASH but the bank was only worth $1.9B.
GLTY.
Understand what you mean but financial reporting is guided by specific rules and regulations.
You cannot just report whatever you feel like. That's why I've read JPM and they have stated clearly in their footnotes that certain issues are not resolved in their acquisition of WMB.
The FDIC cannot just shun it's fiduciary responsibilities. They need to close the P&AA and finalize the whole bank transaction.
My confidence is unless the quarterly statement filed by WMI was totally false, the banks financial conditions couldn't have deteriorated to a value of just $1.9B.
Something has got to give either there are skeletons in WMI's closet or the FDIC F'd up big time.
You are aggressively writing down the loan portfolios. The risk department will never have that much in bad loans.
Worst case, they would have 20 % of bad loans.
Am waiting for the FDIC to close the P&AA and ensure article VIII is completed.
GLTA.
Rosie got out flanked and out matched and you know it.
He said we weren't getting a dime but were got the reorganized company.
He wanted to release everyone but got outsmarted because FDIC-R is not released. We still have a claim against them.
He got outsmarted by Nate and tried to bully the man. He failed miserably in getting at Nate.
He failed to secure the spoils for the hedge funds and almost got them disallowed.
He failed to stop the examiner but the examiners report was not done properly because Jaime was not under oath and I can go on and on.
Been here pre-bk and the debtors lacked the guts and the balls to go after the FDIC and JPM.
I have no regard or respect for Rosie. He and the debtors took the path of less resistance and that's nothing to brag about.
GLTY.
So why wasn't there an amended BK filing.
I mean this is an $8B difference.