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Lawrence, You might be unto something here. The hedges can ask for immunity if they spill the beans on all the details of the negotiation of the GSA but ask that the insider trading allegation be dropped. They probably have the goods on the debtors, JPig and FrauDIC.
IMO, since they were a party to the initial GSA, they might give us the info to tear it to shreds which opens a can of worms to go after JPM in the alternative.
The issue here might be IT allegations dropped for info to sue JPig for more cash. Which makes sense that they were willing to fund the litigation trust.
GLTY.
I'm surprised that some old posters are missing the point on the reorganized WMI.
1. The previous plan had the hedgefunds as new owners and the board of directors were made up of the hedgefunds and today we find out that equity now has the chairman and 2 other members of the board and a controlling majority 3 of 5.
2. The liquidating trust was supposed to be headed by A&M Kosturos and today we find out that the liquidating trust if not dead would be controlled by MW.
3. The ligation trust would be controlled by the EC.
Now, we know the liquidation trust had certain assets that were never valued and were supposed to be liquidated after the previous plan was accepted. My question, "What are the assets and what are they valued for?"
Since EC has control of the Reorganized WMI, we also have automatic control of the liquidating trust which would now proceed to value all non-debtor assets.
Anyone thinking that WMI is only worth $160M without taking into consideration the non-debtor assets are in for a rude awakening.
The VALUATION of the NON-DEBTOR Assets would prove WMI to be a CASH COW.
GLTA.
Well, we are just gonna wait to see the new plan and disclosure statement to see how the deal was shaped.
My bet is the hedgefunds gave a lot to get out of their trouble and releases.
I share your concerns but IMO, even if the GSA is not modified or remains as is we would need a modified plan and new disclosure statement.
Therefore, if there is a new plan and new disclosure statement with a new waterfall analysis then I would assume that the GSA is dead because, the news gave us some hints.
For the hedgefunds to have agreed to the creation of a litigation trust clearly shows that since the amended GSA excluded the hedgefunds they have settled with Equity, leaving the debtors, FrauDIC and JPig at the mercy of a massive discovery request.
Remember, the hedges know all the details of the negotiations and could have actually provided the analysis of WMMRC and other non-debtor assets to EC to get their releases basically throwing the debtors under the bus.
Your more savvy about legal issues but I do a lot of analysis during the negotiations there's no way the EC would have given up anymore concessions when they had them by the balls.
Am confident that the hedges basically threw everyone else under the bus to get their money and interest and releases.
GLTY.
The exit financing is to get some liquidity.
There's a difference between assets. Cash is the most liquid and the Reorganized WMI is Cash poor without all the recoveries I stated. Thats why the NOL in tens of Billions does not immediately translate to cash or liquid assets.
The Creditors have laid down their swords here and have agreed to give Equity the reorganized WMI.
We'll need to see the details and breakdown to see what the other concessions are. We might have gotten 100% or 50.1% which would determine several things. I will speculate that if we had very good negotiators, when you have your adversary by the balls why let them go easily.
IMO, the creditors are making out like bandits because they get 100% recovery and FJR worth billions and Releases and Equity gets what's left but now have the leverage to go after JPig and FrauDIC.
My guess is the FDIC and JPig would back down because if the GSA get blown up and every single claim gets litigated then we would have discovery and tell me Jaime Dimon and Sheila Bair would want to undergo the same depositions the hedges settled to avoid.
GLTY.
Your warnings are unfortunately ill informed.
The Insurance business on its own is worth $650M but was valued as $150 by the debtors.
The NOL Tax Assets are worth about $30B if it's properly utilized that was why BDO was recently hired.
We have $26B loss from the Bank and the IRS rule clearly states that the stock loss in a subsidiary can be used as operating loss by the parent company. I mean this is worth Billions because we know that taxes are going to be raised in the coming years and interest rates are going to go up from this historic lows of 0 interest borrowings.
We also have Non-Debtor assets that have not been accounted for because those subsidiaries are not in BK.
We have wind power projects worth at least $500M
We have several 747 Planes worth about $250M each.
We have WM Marion worth an undisclosed amount.
We have Tax Refunds and Fraudulent Conveyance claims against the FDIC.
I can go on and on but you need to look the entire filing to understand that since the creditors have backed down, we can either go after the FDIC-Receiver and Corporate and JPM for big time money.
No matter how you skin this cat, there's a ton of assets that have not been valued yet.
GLTY
Yea, Even with their federal judgement rate, they are making out like bandits. They bought most of their securities at pennies on a dollar. For them to risk incriminating themselves for insider trading after waiting almost 3 years to reap their gains would be a total lack of financial and risk management discipline.
Their own lawyers would have asked for their trading data for preparing their defense and if they find out that not only did they trade during negotiations but the debt was bought for less than 10% of face value, they would be well advised to walk away with their gains and get their releases.
GLTY.
Your exactly right. I would be more excited if we see a motion for cancellation of remaining depositions due to Hedgefunds meeting all the demands of the EC.
The HFs might as well hand over the reorganized WMI and we'll take it from there.
New Bankruptcy Rule 2015.3 - Reporting of Non-Debtor Entities
Bankruptcy Rule 2015.3 states:
Rule 2015.3. Reports of Financial Information on Entities in Which a Chapter 11 Estate Holds a Controlling or Substantial Interest
(a) Reporting requirement.
In a chapter 11 case, the trustee or debtor in possession shall file periodic financial reports of the value, operations, and profitability of each entity that is not a publicly traded corporation or a debtor in a case under title 11, and in which the estate holds a substantial or controlling interest. The reports shall be prepared as prescribed by the appropriate Official Form, and shall be based upon the most recent information reasonably available to the trustee or debtor in possession.
(b) Time for filing; service.
The first report required by this rule shall be filed no later than five days before the first date set for the meeting of creditors under § 341 of the Code. Subsequent reports shall be filed no less frequently than every six months thereafter, until the effective date of a plan or the case is dismissed or converted. Copies of the report shall be served on the United States trustee, any committee appointed under § 1102 of the Code, and any other party in interest that has filed a request therefor.
(c) Presumption of substantial or controlling interest; judicial determination.
For purposes of this rule, an entity of which the estate controls or owns at least a 20 percent interest, shall be presumed to be an entity in which the estate has a substantial or controlling interest. An entity in which the estate controls or owns less than a 20 percent interest shall be presumed not to be an entity in which the estate has a substantial or controlling interest. Upon motion, the entity, any holder of an interest therein, the United States trustee, or any other party in interest may seek to rebut either presumption, and the court shall, after notice and a hearing, determine whether the estate's interest in the entity is substantial or controlling.
(d) Modification of reporting requirement.
The court may, after notice and a hearing, vary the reporting requirement established by subdivision (a) of this rule for cause, including that the trustee or debtor in possession is not able, after a good faith effort, to comply with those reporting requirements, or that the information required by subdivision (a) is publicly available.
(e) Notice and protective orders.
No later than 14 days before filing the first report required by this rule, the trustee or debtor in possession shall send notice to the entity in which the estate has a substantial or controlling interest, and to all holders – known to the trustee or debtor in possession – of an interest in that entity, that the trustee or debtor in possession expects to file and serve financial information relating to the entity in accordance with this rule. The entity in which the estate has a substantial or controlling interest, or a person holding an interest in that entity, may request protection of the information under § 107 of the Code.
(f) Effect of request.
Unless the court orders otherwise, the pendency of a request under subdivisions (c), (d), or (e) of this rule shall not alter or stay the requirements of subdivision (a).
It is of no consequence that “the Court is not convinced that continued litigation against JPMC and/or the FDIC would” provide equity interest holders with any recovery.39 Respectfully, it is not this Court’s decision to make. Rather, the nature of the issues on appeal to the District Court prohibits this Court from interfering with the appellate process.
Wow, what a stretch.
Obama through the stimulus package handed WMI additional carryback tax refunds worth about $2.8B but the bums gave it away to the FrauDIC and JPIG. Thats a FACT. There's no dispute to the fact that this administration gave us COLD HARD CASH.
Now don't get me wrong, the policy was to help wall street get back some of the taxes paid during the boom day to cover their losses during the financial crisis which trickled to WMI but you cannot blame the new guy for the fraudulent behavior of the Debtors and Weil.
GLTY.
Steved45, Your getting it twisted. Rosen is supposed to represent the estate. If the Debtors actually had the best interest of shareholders at heart then they would have negotiated the best possible GSA and allow Equity to pick the scraps which would be WMMRRC.
The idea that you think someone who has a divided loyalty is a star is very worrying. Rosen is basically working to give assets of the estate to the adversary and also hand the hedgefunds not only cash but also contract rate on their gains to squeeze out equity.
Now, don't get me wrong. The constitution provides that everyone and anyone is entitled to legal representation but what is happening here is not representation but the usurping of the BK process. I'm a professional with an Engineering degree but I'll not take the well data from Chevron and hand it to Shell or unethically negotiate and a joint venture agreement when the data presented is unaudited and lack necessary numbers for proper decision making.
GLTY. If a criminal lawyer who instead of representing the estate (Client) says that the same estate is trying to milk JPM then we need not argue about loyalty because we know were his heart his.
LOL, It's all good Fish.
The issue here is not who likes who or not. It's who gets me the money.
We got $2.8B in additional Tax Refunds from the Stimulus Package and the bums gave the money to the adversary. If someone gives a company am invested in that much in additional tax refunds why wouldn't I love the man.
GLTY. Am not blind, no man is perfect but when you get Billions of dollars back and a law that allows 5 year look back and new NOL carry-forward rules then I have nothing to complain about.
Someone is Mr S's position and age is no longer interested in money but his legacy and prestige. When Susman showed up and went in the chambers and came out and everyone was praising him for turning the case around with the appointment of the examiner, I thought this case was going to be over in a matter of weeks.
The biggest mistake here was the Examiners report and that was outside the control of SG and EC. The examiner did not get the asset list and never had a single deposition under oath.
We can blame Susman all day long, he has delivered over and over again. See my post on the P board and watch how 3 of their 4 arguments were agreed to by the Judge to deny the previous plan and the new plan would not pass the new test.
The NOL and Release issues are almost insurmountable by the Debtors because we now have the opportunity to perform an analysis of the stock loss of WMI in WMB which is probably worth another $26B.
Nate Thoma focused on Insider Trading and the Judge accepted his arguments and now SG is working that issue.
SG and his crew are not coming at this issue from a singular view but from a multifaceted approach which makes sense because putting so many holes in plan would do more damage than a single hit or miss attempt.
GLTY. The Insider Trading is a very big issue because the Judge can do damage by denying all SNH claims and thats about $5B in bonds and PIERS claims but the biggest issue here is Valuation because we are talking about several billions of unaccounted for assets and valuable tax assets which would come in handy for decades.
Chiron, We've talked about this issue several times. The EC didn't bring up the insider trading issue at the first confirmation hearing because their strategy was:
1. NOL (Judge Accepted their Argument)
2. Tax Refunds (Judge Rejected their Argument)
3. Releases (Judge Accepted their Argument)
4. Valuation (Judge Accepted their Argument)
I know you think SG and their team of lawyers are not doing anything but just as the insider trading allegations are so strong so is the RELEASE issue. There would be NO third party releases granted and thats why the case would go into full fledged litigation and SG can nail the FrauDIC, JPig and Hedgefunds.
You need to look at their strategy, they did enough to destroy the first plan and you can bet they will do the same on the revised plan because the NOL and Releases are insurmountable obstacles for the debtors and with insider trading being proven then there's no way the plan can be approved.
GLTY.
Sly, Am sorry your wrong again.
Tax Refunds = $5.8B
NOL = $5.5B
WMB Loss = $6.5B $26B @ 25%
**Capital Contribution = $7.8B
**BOLI/COLI = $5.0B
**Bank Deposit = $4.0B
Capital contributions from WMI into WMB in April and June of 2008 from TPG worth $7.8B.
This is easy. Why is Rosen asking to perform discovery on PJ Solomon? If Rosen was so confident, why not allow wait till confirmation to see the numbers in open court?
Rosen is very afraid and he knows that if he shows up in court and his numbers are false then he could get BK fraud liabilities on his head.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
Here are the attacks on the POR from Susman:
1. The releasesSUCCEEDED.
2. Asset Valuation.UNGOING
3. NOL Assets. SUCCEEDED
4. Fraudulent Conveyance.UNGOING
5. $4B Deposit but the Judge F'ed that up.FAILED
6. They went after the GSA but the Judge F'ed that up.FAILED
EXAMINER EXAMINER EXAMINER EXAMINER EXAMINER EXAMINER
Susman filed something under seal and we got the examiner appointed but unfortunately, the Examiner was supposed to get the Asset List but never got to that and during the first confirmation hearing Susman blew up the report and succeeded in turning the document to mere hearsay.
The only failure by Susman IMO was He should have taken the Judge's offer to do the examination/discovery himself but he was probably looking to get a third party independent report to confirm his analysis but the examiner brought him hearsay, no asset list and not a single deposition under oath.
GLTY. There are things not under his control because the structure of the bankruptcy court favors the creditors and Debtors. Equity had a seat a little too late and they have been shut out of any major negotiations.
The expanded commercial banking and term-lending businesses may eventually deliver more than $500 million each in annual profits, “significantly better than we expected,” he said.
We need to raise this in court for sure and let the Judge know that she made a fatal error approving the GSA.
GLTY.
Not given you a hard time Fish. Your calculation is actually supposed to be 6.8% of OS traded.
I mean what you know. LOL.
To Gypsy: The big boys never do well in depositions especially when they said in open court they were one of the architects of the GSA and arrogantly Tepper bought JPM shares. That was a boneheaded move that would cost him a lot.
To William: I totally agree with you and if you noticed during the last confirmation hearing Susman's focus was on the value of the NOL assets and Releases.
Rosen cannot hide the NOL assets and stock abandonment losses from the court anymore, immediately the value of NOL assets are presented in court as worth $30-40B, the entire calculus would change and we can actually go after the debtors and noteholders for bankruptcy fraud.
Finally, the insider trading deal is a big issue because if the actions of the hedgefunds were seriously criminal, the Judge can disallow their entire claim and they only get back their initial investments which releases about $5-7B in claims.
GLTY.
I told you its going to get ugly for the SNH's.
Susman said in court that the PIERS were actually equity and that was when Susman showed up in court back then. With the allegations of insider trading, they will be valued accordingly with only post petition federal judgement rate.
Susman is not a noisemaker, they are systematically taking down the opposition. Watch what happens if the hedgefunds open themselves up for depositions. Someone is going to slip to get immunity and throw everyone else under the bus.
The same settlement noteholders also hold billions in bonds and they would only be paid federal judgement rate too to be released.
The mother of all victories would be for the AGSA to blown to shreds then we can start throwing criminal fraudulent charges on the FDIC and JPM.
The war has just started.
GLTY.
The comparing of Picard and Susman is totally wrong.
Picard should be compared to the Brian Rosen thats a fair comparison.
Susman does not control the ESTATE and was not invited to the negotiations of the GSA. I mean they must be frustrated that the BK Judge inserted herself as an expert witness.
Picard is not fighting the adversary in a BK court, the guy is going after everyone in sight with criminal fraud charges which should have been the work of the debtors from the get go.
We were here and we watched the EC complain that the Debtors would not even deliver documents requested and they were deposing members of the equity committee.
Then we had the Examiner which was a result of Susman's findings but the Examiner did not get the assets documents and was never able to get the fully un-redacted copy of the P&A.
I mean Susman and his are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.
If Susman can prove insider trading, that WAHUQ is actually equity and provide valuation analysis by PJ Solomon, they would have done the impossible.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAMMMMMMMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Side, I disagree with you that the unworthy were the problem.
Every property has intrinsic value that cannot be equal to zero. A property has a fair value and market value.
The distortion between fair and market value were so skewed that speculators took advantage and inflated the values of the underlining asset. The loans were also designed to fail because the subprime loans were actually given to people with good credit determined to set them up for failure. Why would a bank give interest only loan or loans that balloon to 10-15% interest rate. I mean common. We are busy defending the same corporations that packaged these loans and sold them as Triple A quality investments to investors.
Even if a mortgage loan fails that does not erode the fair value of the timber, concrete and labor. The inflated market value is a different and untamed animal.
You need to understand that speculators really distorted the market and needed to feed the fire with machinations of loan types and over built on inventory causing a crash. Look at Nevada and see how much inventory of homes and tell me how the demand and supply principle can work. These actions drove home prices down and people started walking away from their mortgages instead of paying subprime 10% mortgages and devalued properties.
The so-called mortgage cannot become toxic if they maintain a true intrinsic value which cannot be tarnished.
GLTY.
We are on the same track. I clearly stated that the EC has to engage an investment banker for merger and Acquisition for a profitable company to use these loss pools.
Of course you need to huge incomes to actually us the NOL but since we have very high borrowing rate and low interest rates, the NOL is actually very very valuable to a big profitable company that needs to reduce it taxable income in billions and pay pennies on a dollar or uses its paper to complete the merger.
Carryovers are not your typical assets because tax rates are going to change, interest rates are going higher and borrowing rates are still sky high. Therefore, the only way major companies can shelter tremendous amounts of cash is not to pay taxes for quite a while which is about 15%-35% corporate and thats straight to the bottomline.
IMO, These NOL and Capital Loss benefits are worth their weight in gold if a good investment banker gets working on it.
The NOL and Capital Losses are Assets. Therefore, the valuation of the reorganized WMI is critical to the Accepting the POR.
Valuation of the Reorganized WMI would be a determinant to what assets are available for distribution.
There's a Time Value of Money Analysis that would easily be performed and I actually know how to the computation.
Present Value Calculation would be used to determine the value of these NOL and Capital Loss Assets as of today and would be added to the present asset list of the Estate which would put equity in the money.
NOL and Capital Losses is not cash or cash equivalent and thats why the estate has to secure an investment banker to seek a merger partner to use this assets to reduce its taxable income while acquiring these assets at 25cents to the dollar.
Of course the NOL only belong to the reorganized WMI but there has to be a valuation to determine that these assets are not fraudulently conveyed to settlement noteholders.
GLTY.
Marayatano,
I disagree with your arguments about NOL it's kinda comparing apples and oranges when it comes to WAMUQ and MTLLQ.
You need to look at Bankruptcies from the perspective of Assets and Liabilities.
I don't want to be OT but comparing GM Bankruptcy to WMI Bankruptcy fails on several tests.
1. GM was a prepackaged BK. WMI filed BK because of WMB and WMBFsb seizures.
2. GM was actually Bankrupt and the liabilities far exceeded the assets. WMI was not bankrupt at the time of seizure and assets exceeded liabilities even as per the BK filing documents.
3. NOL and Capital Loss are 2 different things. Now the IRS is stating that Capital Losses can be used as normal operating losses therefore, the entire loss from WMI (100%) stock holding in a subsidiary can be used 100% as a normal loss and can be used up over 15 years.
4. GM didn't not have a global settlement agreement and non of their assets where seized.
I have so many more examples but not gonna delve in any deeper.
The reason why we see the EC is going after insider trading and Federal Judgement Rate is to get the Creditors paid and Equity can take control of the reorganized WMI.
Remember, we are not even talking about the value of the assets taken from WMI, we just want control of the carcass which is worth at least (25cents of $17B + $26B = $10.75B).
IMO, Am not a CPA, The IRS ruling allows the holding company to claim 100% of stock or Capital loss in a subsidiary as normal operating or business losses. Thats why its even more critical for EC to get control of the reorganized WMI.
GLTY.
The FJR is more than just 20% of face value. I mean common, you've been here long enough to know better.
The FJR is all about who gets the reorganized WMI.
We are talking about $26B in NOL from capital losses in WMB and WMFsb. Also we have NOL of $17B from WMI.
We are talking about $40B worth of NOL losses that can be utilized as operating losses. This NOL Assets can be sold at 25cents to the dollar and would be worth about $10B.
We are at $18 because the order is not signed, sealed and delivered.
You know better than to ask me about the present share price, while big issues are still in litigation mode.
Wait till litigations are completed and then decide if the present pps is reasonable or not.
I mean common,
1. we have insider trading litigations.
2. We have FJR and/or actual denial of claims pending.
3. We have Valuation of the Reorganized WMI.
4. We have NOL and Capital Gains now applicable to normal losses.
5. We have questions about the WAHUQ actually being equity.
I can go on and on. Why not wait for the resolution of these issues before you reach a conclusion.
Chiron,
There's so much wrong with your post that I don't even know where to start.
In the calculation of the NOL valuation, when two powerhouse accounting and finance firms disagree then the court can call for an independent analysis performed by a third party or the IRS might be subpoenaed and made to provide guidance to the court as to the value of the NOL assets.
Don't forget there are attorneys and CPAs that specialize in taxes and tax policy and every party are welcomed to provide their own expert testimonies.
The court can reach a decision after listening to expert testimony and determine the reasonableness of the arguments before the court.
Am not as cynical as you are because, Blackstone and the debtors cannot hide behind attorney-client privilege or work product when the chips are down to NOL Valuation.
In an actual valuation hearing, Blackstone would have to provide the raw analysis of their NOL calculations because when experts delve into the numbers everyone would be tearing eachothers analysis to shreds and whose analysis stands the test would be the agreed track.
IRS is the father and everyone else gets guidance from them, the court can request the IRS provide direction and if they have provided guidance that capital losses can be used as typical operating losses then we have $26B extra in NOL assets from the losses from WMB and WMBfsb.
GLTY.
They have enough data to piece together WMI's financial position.
Annual General Reports and Audited Financial Statements provides a working template.
The SEC and IRS tax documents and disclosures are very good source of data.
IMO, PJ Solomon might not have the numbers down to the nearest cent but you can be rest assured they have the numbers to the nearest billion or 100s of millions which is what matters most. Even if they cannot account for a few billions, they will provide the court with that disclosure that would easily prove that their numbers are good enough.
Remember that the NOL Tax Analysis for the Reorganized Company is key to putting Equity in the money.
Finally, you DO NOT need actual raw ledger entries for valuation but the better the data, the better the valuation analysis thats why you can say we are looking at estimated numbers.
The debtors would have an opportunity to question and perform discovery to either disprove the results or they provide a counter valuation analysis which might open a can of worms.
GLTY.
Real, E&Y are only doing advisory work for the debtors.
When you sign on a financial statement without assurance, you might be liable for fraud if the numbers are found to be false or fraudulent.
I think Rosen needs advise on NOL Taxation issues for WMMRRC and Selling WMMRRC.
If you notice, the professionals working on this project for E&Y are specialized in M&A (Mergers and Acquisitions).
GLTY.
Your theory is possible but I'll disagree because of the issues brought up by Tricadia.
The sale of WMMRRC would immediately cause them to lose the NOL Tax Benefits. It has to be "old and cold" as stated by Tricadia.
The transfer of ownership rights negates your theory. It has to be a merger or transfer of some ownership rights while maintaining some amount of old interests (Equity or Debt) to use the Tax Losses.
Don't get me wrong, there might be a provision in securities or tax law that might allow the sale of the NOL as an asset but I doubt any institution would risk class and criminal action lawsuits by taking on WMMRRC. Therefore, there must be settlement for all impaired parties or the proceeds of the sale is transfered to impaired classes.
I do agree that if the Settlement Noteholders have anything to hide, they would gladly settle with EC and resolve it without disturbing the hornets nest or a full blown trial.
If we take control of the reorganized company then we can do a merger acquisition. IMO
Fish, The whole Federal Government talk is being overplayed and it's getting tiring and absolutely redundant.
The same Federal Government gave us $2.8B in additional Tax Refunds but the Debtors gave it away using percentages that don't make any sense. The entire tax refunds from the IRS would have been almost enough to pay all the creditors and the debtors can hand equity the reorganized WMMRRC and we can then use the WMB stock loss as a good bargaining chip for a merger partner and shareholders get something.
Let's assume, we drop every claim against the FrauDIC and JPIG and just tell the debtors to pay creditors federal judgement rate and we can take what is left and move on.
Here comes the same debtors working with hedgefunds to defraud us of not only recoveries but the also want the reorganized WMMRRC with the NOL benefits.
Stop blaming the Federal Government because we are the PEOPLE are Federal Government. Corporations, Hedgefunds and Wall Street are destroying the country while everyone is talking about the Government.
Why did WMI not challenge the seizure of WMB within 30 days of seizure? Well U**K are suing the FrauDIC to return their bank. That's a small bank fighting the big guns because they had Cash on hand of 25% of the deposits held. They also had a plan to increase their liquidity but the OTS went ahead and seized the bank anyways.
Why did WMI agree to split the tax refunds with the FrauDIC and JPig? They had a fighting chance but the Noteholders had other plans. How did they reach the percentages of the splits on the NOL?
I can go on and on and am shocked that people come here and talk about the federal government. The IRS is a government agency and they already did their part and signed the checks for billions to WMI but WMI decided to split the money.
The US Trustee was fighting for us until McMahon saw the mess and was like this is messed up and resigned and left for private practice. He probably saw that the debtors were the worst breed ever and did not want to soil is name.
Please stop with the federal government talk, our enemies are our own DEBTORS.
The Trustee in the Maddof Ponzi Scheme is going after everybody in sight. He has recovered billions and taking names. That's what the debtors should have been doing from day 1. Sue everything and everyone that had anything to do with the seizure and sale of WMB and let them settle at your own terms.
GLTY.
Enough Already. I don't want Susman, we need Godfrey to show up in court.
Thats not how the production of documents work.
If they don't provide the trading data, the EC would come back to the court and seek a federal subpoena and when the marshals show up at the hedgefund offices, they would grab everything that can be moved.
Then their hard drives are scanned for emails and data paths. Their blackberries are seized and all their calls and data downloaded.
Finally, the EC would request third part subpoenas for market makers and DTCC to see who the shares were finally delivered to.
If they did something wrong and try to obstruct discovery or provide false information, they might actually face not only their claims been thrown out but jail terms for bankruptcy fraud and if the debtors worked closely with the noteholders then they might also get sanctioned and lose control.
GLTY.
The new GSA does not negate the contents and creation of the foundations of the GSA.
The initial GSA was created and traded upon. The new GSA is almost the same as the old GSA in content and substance.
You will notice that to prove insider trading is quite easy due to the existence of the electronic exchanges which have date and time stamps on every stock transaction.
No matter which market marker the hedgies used, we just need to subpoena or request that the DTCC provide the data which shows the origination, market maker and destination of every share.
The hedgies would be deposed independently of eachother which is also dangerous because trying to get their story straight gets more difficult.
This case is far from over, it only takes one hedge fund to seek immunity from prosecution and spill the beans on the debtors and other edges.
GLTY.
I see what your saying about the offer.
It's called the Principle of Duality.
When JPM made the offer, we had common shares but we also had preferred shares also in existence.
The offer calculations could have been done on several criteria either using Fair Market Value or Future Earning Potential or from a Cash Flow Perspective.
When the offer was made and rejected, WMI used equity instruments instead to raise the required capital which now became ASSET. The valuation did not change because of the principle of duality.
Increase in Assets = Increase in Common Shares which zeros out. Therefore, the JPM offer was not affected by the increase in the number of common shares because the increase in CASH assets offsets the effect of dilution.
Preferred Shares are equity but its more complicated than that.
Preferred shares have Dividends Payable at every quarter or semi-annually depending on the preferred prospectus and agreement.
Dividends Payable is an accounting Liability.
Depending on the preferred stipulations, a company can be forced into bankruptcy if they default on dividend payments in which preferred holder then automatically become creditors.
I don't want to go into so much details because this is not an accounting board.
HROLLER,
Am not trying to be nit picky because we are all on the same side and I have my hands in all WAMU securities to make sure that worst case scenario, I'll still make some money in the waterfall.
Now heres the accounting entry for the transaction for the capital raise.
Debit CASH 7,000,0000
Credit Common Shares 7,000,000
Therefore, the transaction was a Debt equity swap which resulted in a $7B increase in Asset and increase in shareholders equity.
The Debt to Equity resulted from the conversion of preferred shares to common shares which immediately increase liquidity ratio and improves the balance sheet.
There's no increase in Liability because of the principle of matching and continuity and going concern that WAMU would continue to exist as a business. Unfortunately, the assets were seized and you know all the rest which is why a FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE claim would be very easy to prove.
GLTY.
My break down of the EC response to the objections.
Death by a thousand cuts.
EC stated clearly that the GSA is dead because it was not extended by the end of January 31, 2011 and now there has to be a new renegotiated GSA which must be agreed upon by the so-called settling stakeholders.
With the GSA in Limbo, EC has giving the Judge a way out of the "Fair and Reasonable" opinion because the previous GSA was found to be fair and reasonable but now there has to be a brand new one that now needs to be tested for its fairness and reasonableness.
EC filing was masterful in their 2 edged sword cut down of the GSA. Either you certify the appeal or you start afresh with a new GSA that can be tested and negotiated with EC at the table or not.
GLTA.