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WOW ! Where did that 299 billion go? "the FDIC reporting to the board(their own board) in 2015 that they(fdic) had 299 billion(their words, not mine) AND zero estimated expenses(again, their words, not mine) to the fund."
BBANBOB, I assume A and M is managing something pertaining to escrows. What could it be? Some valuable Trusts, I hope. What say you? I agree on Thoma's effort. What a hero for WM shareholders, indeed. He gave us a "fighting chance".
BBANBOB,"OFF BOOKED SAFE HARBORED ASSETS". Is this what A amd M has been managing for many years? Thanks for indulging me.
BBANBOB, where do you feel the "bulk" will come from? "But that is NOT imho where the bulk of what we hope is coming back here IS COMING FROM ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"JPMorgan Chase will not be acquiring any assets or liabilities of the banks’ parent holding company (WM) or the holding company’s non-bank subsidiaries." So, does this make it clear that whatever is contained in the holding company belongs to the estate (escrows holders)?
The interest money just keeps on piling up for escrows holders. I wish !
Have to agree with zeus on that. As far as I know, there haven't been any huge numbers identified as belonging to escrows.
AZCowboy, it would really be interesting if you would "map out" the sequence that will likely occur after the bankruptcy is officially closed. In terms of possible subsequent escrows distributions.
This makes me wonder even more about the hedge funds apparent reticence over the years in this whole protected assets/distribution matter. If they would have seen or even suspected they were "getting screwed over bigtime" wouldn't they have, somehow, "cried foul"? As a common shareholder it's pretty easy to get overwhelmed and feel helpless against the likes of JPM. But these hedge funds also have money and power.
What was Dr. A's 86B estimate based on? I believe it was 86B. Is that what he calculated as to the total assets that were contained in the Holding Company and that the owners of the estate are entitled to?
Despite signed releases, if fraud can be proven and no fair and reasonable, is there legal recourse? Just in case.
Johnny, so shouldn't there at least be "24 Billion dollars Net" minimum still there now? If not, what could have happened to it if immune from the WM bankruptcy since the seizure for around 11 years?
What did the Holding Company contain at the time of the seizure? If it was protected from the WM bankruptcy, shouldn't the contents at the time of the seizure still be there?
So these powerful hedge funds have been waiting for around 11 years for possible distributions, just like many of us escrows holders. As far as I know, they haven't even made a "whimper" about the long wait for their potential distributions. I really don't know how to gauge that. Could they possibly know something positive is on the way and are content to wait? It seems like IF they knew very little is forthcoming they might be "raising some cane" by now. Any thoughts?
Boris, do you feel escrows will get WM's real estate book value?
cursa asada, do you feel that 1.9 B payment included WM's massive amount of real estate as part of the "assets"?
Royal Dude, I assume you are being facetious. If not, I sure hope you are close on your projection.
Obviously, NO one has a clue about WM's real estate "book value" at the time of the seizure and the deal on if it's been compensated justly for. That's a HUGE dollar figure. It is SO significant. If JPM got WM's bank AND all their real estate for 1.9 Billion there has to be some serious legal ramifications if escrows aren't compensated "fair and reasonable".
Large Green, please indulge me further on WM's real estate. Have you ever seen any projections as to what all of WM's real estate "book value" was at the time of the seizure? This is significant. Did JPM already pay "book value" for WM's real estate to help pay off liabilities in bankruptcy or is that, possibly, coming to escrows?
So Large Green, has JPM paid "book value" for WM's real estate? Or will that be a part of the distributions coming to escrows? I'm anxious to learn your feelings on this important factor. You do seem to be on top of this escrows thing, I sure hope you're right. I guess will see pretty soon.
hotmeat, when you say, "they GOT IT ALL", does that include all of WM's real estate?
Did JPM get all of WM's real estate assets as part of their "sweetheart" deal right after the seizure?
Has the book value of WM's real estate at the time of the seizure ever been determined and revealed? Was acquiring all of WM's real estate part of that "sweet deal" JPM paid less than 2 billion for? Including the bank, itself. Wasn't JPM required to pay "book value" for WM including it's real estate which was substantial? If JPM paid book value for WM's real estate was that money used to pay off some liabilities in bankruptcy? Or who is entitled to the proceeds for the book value paid for WM's real estate?
What kind of fees would escrows possibly owe Rosen?
wanuvoodoo, you think that will please the hedge funds who have been waiting for around 11 years? If all escrows get are shares, what has A and M been paid "big bucks" to manage for a long time?
Unless the hedge funds figured out a way to screw commons over. Then, wouldn't they face possible legal repercussions going back to the Thoma revelations?
BBANBOB, so after the bankruptcy is finalized, Rosen CAN"T do anything to screw escrows over on what could be coming to them?
After the bankruptcy is final does Rosen have anything to do with the possible estate assets that escrows may be entitled to? Such as the Trusts I have read about that A and M may be managing.
Is the main distribution theory that when the bankruptcy ends, estate assets separate from bankruptcy, then, can be released and distributed to escrows? And is it theorized that this isn't what Rosen was referring to when he indicated there was nothing for equity?
I'd appreciate if someone can explain to me why bankruptcy needs to be finalized before separate estate assets can be released.
ron, AZCowboy or anybody, you think JPM paid book value for those assets. Aren't they required to by law?
BRILLIANT commentary lodas. Let's don't give up until we get "Fair and Reasonable".
newflow, don't know if anything will come that phrase, but it sure seems promising. Especially, considering the circumstances affter all these years.
That's what I never could figure out. Did JPM, not only get the bank, but also all of WM's real estate for the measly sum they paid. If no F and R payback, "CLAWBACK", with the finest lawyers on the planet would be in order.
RD, that would certainly be "Fair and Reasonable".
Royal Dude, are you foreseeing 84 billion minimum for escrows commons BK and post BK combined? Or did I miscalculate your post?
So escrows could be getting around 10 B within BK in addition to what's outside BK?
thanks BBANBOB, if WMI is, indeed, "the estate", I see what you are saying. I guess I thought I saw the 4B reference that pertained to something else.
"40 bill not 4 b". 40 bill would certainly be more "fair & reasonable". AzCowboy, please be so kind and clarify.
AZCowboy, a followup question. You posted, "Class 22 owns the Estate". Haven't you discovered documentation that there's at least 4 Billion in the estate? Would 4 Billion qualify as "fair & reasonable"?
Large Green, great due diligence. In your opinion, when is all of this going to be finally be revealed? After 11 years, are you kidding me.
Are the top two reasons many feel there is something substantial coming to escrows 1)hedge fund involvement 2)A and M getting paid well for years for servicing "something"?
I've read many of the theories developed by the due diligence of some posters. But the two facts above have always remained the most meaningful, to me, as to the possibility of something substantial coming to escrows. Anybody else feel the same way?