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It's not "they", it's "he". He = ConBoy
You actually may be onto something. H-D has some very large warehouses. Product being delivered to stores TODAY could very well be materials delivered to warehouse(s) during the September pilot program. With the material likely being delivered east by the carload since it was Doug Fir from the west coast, it would have to be staged somewhere on the east coast and broken down into truckload or smaller quantities for store deliveries. So, stores could still be receiving material today while Eco is actually delivering none of it anymore. I'm sure there will be a great answer forthcoming tonight, but the best answer will be in the Q report you reference.
I think I hear bells, but what makes you think Eco would be due any royalty at all? Nothing they are doing hasn't been done before, and there is no patent issued. Anybody with a couple hundred grand could pick up the pieces and run with it, with no debt, no shareholders to deal with, no back taxes (payroll and sales), and no high-paid officers. Clean slate. Off and running.
The fact that nobody has, may be telling. They might be waiting to pick-up a bunch of spraying equipment for pennies/pound at the Eco auction.
Ahh, memories of happier days of Eco and another Big Box.
http://dotnet.sys-con.com/node/1090898/mobile
Maybe it had to many big words?
Here's an analysis you can do from the comfort of your home, assuming you have a comfortable home. Look up the addresses of Eco affiliates/Licenses on the ECOB web map and ESR, and then go to Home Depot's website and search "Red Shield" at the closest H-D for each one.
Salem, OR - Nothing
Augusta, GA - Nothing
Vancouver, WA - Nothing
Austin, TX - Nothing
Doswell, VA - Nothing
Greenwich, CT - Nothing
Chippewa Falls, WI - Nothing
Denver, CO - Nothing
Vista, CA - Nothing
How hard can it be for these busy affiliates to stock more Depot stores? Doesn't sound like much of an affiliate program. Doesn't sound like Depot is in any hurry either.
I heard Conboy saw his shadow this morning.
Warren could probably also describe the gap between Eco today and the minimum requirements to get listed by Nasdaq, if he had that much time on his hands. Next time Warren does a 'bid on lunch with Warren' deal, Conboy should sell some stock and make a bid.
You guys did think I'd really claim that I tested it without having done so, did you? Tested this stuff a long time ago, back when maybe it was still something more than water and red dye.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/e3eva6jis7zqzev/Lc7AmQy-HU
Hopefully DropBox will let you open this link.
Surely you guys can recognize a Steiner Tunnel since everybody on this blog knows all about them.
Red Shield Doug Fir 2x from Rocky Mountain Bluwood. T&G'd and strapped together for optimum positive test results. And those results? Same as one would expect from untreated and uncoated Doug Fir. No distinguishable improvement. Class B within the first 10 minutes. BTW, we had to cherrypick through what we bought to get what appeared to be the best coated stuff.
We actually had a enough material and time booked for another test, but it was such a conclusive Class B, there was no point in blowing more money on such a ruse. Obviously, the joke was on me on the first test. Fool me once.....
Enjoy! Leave it with you, again.
The good news is that even with your superior Math, Eco still wins the short renewal award. Major award is in the mail to Colton.
Are you suggesting that Eco should get brownie points for being Suspended, yet another unusual situation for an ESR holder? I've seen a vendor lose their Listing for 13 months and still didn't get a suspension. Whatever the problem was, it was significant.
I still maintain, and quite correctly, that Eco would have been better off never getting an ESR because these ongoing issues with the one they have only make it quite dubious, including the fact that there are still problems with it. The ESR seems to throttle between being a ball and chain and potentially being a noose.
None of this stuff would be an issue if they never had one to start with, they could have saved a pile of money on ESR and consultant fees, and one less thing to talk about on the blog that seems to cause much agitation. Again, most products don't have an ESR, like "lumber" for example. I don't think there is one for "plywood" either. Of all the products on the market, few have an ESR, and it's questionable if ANY product needs an ESR. Very rarely does a job spec actually mention an ESR, but they quite often mention brands by name. Of those on this blog that claim to have construction experience, you know this is a fact.
So, nobody on this blog made the ESR an issue. Eco did.
Will be interesting to see if this posting sticks.......
You should bring that to the attention of QAI Labs. Any component change or even a change of the percentages of the components requires a do over of the testing for the Listing to remain valid.
QAI would enjoy getting the revenue from the new testing. Rest assured, it will pass again at QAI, as long as the check doesn't bounce.
There's no logic in me forwarding my 3rd party e-84 test results. Some will say I cherry picked the pieces, some will say I modified the test document, some will say, as now, that I like to stretch the truth. There is absolutely nothing I can do that would convince you otherwise, so I don't see any proof I have as meeting your criteria(ion).
It's really very simple, and it takes me out of the loop. A number of labs in the US have tunnels. They are open to anyone that has a few hundred bucks. Go test any of these wood products that the red dye is being sprayed on. You'd especially enjoy the plywood test this time of year.
FYI. The product I saw tested came direct from a longtime Licensee, and not from Depot. I've seen enough of the Depot stuff to know it would do worse than the stuff I saw tested. Always best to test the best stuff you can find, right?
Feel free to remove this post, too, PRN.
Sections 5.7 and 7.0 (Timber Products Inspection Inc.)
That ESR is definitely a trailblazer. It's the first ESR that I'VE seen with less than a 12 month renewal interval. It's due for renewal 7 months from the renewal date. There's not even an ESR fee schedule for less than a year, so it's definitely unique at this point. As far as I know, ICC-ES doesn't accept discounted penny stock for payment, but there's always hope.
The TPI 3rd party reference is still a false claim in the ESR (no secret there anymore), and will be resolved soon (no secret there either). Maybe somebody else on the blog can keep an eye on this while I'm busy helping Santa. Be especially vigil the end of this week.
December 25th is approaching. Time to find out if Conboy has been naughty or nice. Maybe a lump of boron in his stocking to help improve the bottom line?
You make my point better than I ever could. Thanks.
As a GC, you should review ECO's financials, and then ask yourself who is ultimately going to be on the hook for any liability/warranty claims on Eco's install base. Probably you.
Home Depot's 2013 Innovation Awards winners have been announced. You can check their website for the list. Odd that the product that has supposedly revolutionized their core business wasn't included. Three other coatings did make the list.
I totally agree with your last point!!!
Eat too much, drink too much.
Conboy has a link on his website now where you can send your money to a 501c3 and then he'll turn it into Eco houses in the Philippines.
If my Mom will let me out of her basement, I'm going to ride around the neighborhood this afternoon on my bike and collect money to send Steve. Do you think he'll mind if I send cash?
If you're behind paying your taxes, you're probably behind paying your vendors. Therefore, your vendors are probably behind on shipments of chemicals, which is why you wouldn't want to have your 3rd party program at your plants and licensees in working order any more.
Perhaps there is something Eco Red Shield can't protect a home from afterall.
If you're good at Math, raise your hand. Got a problem for you.
Looking at Eco's ongoing COS, debt, ongoing liability (which all companies have), etc, vs actual revenue, would it not be a more 'logical' business model (in comparison to the existing one) for Eco to just buy private label treated wood and then GIVE it away?
The entire business becomes an 8-5 one-man office wholesaler, with customers lined up to do business.
I proved this point with one company I previously worked with, and they appreciated my input as much as folks here do. I left. They are gone.
To PM'er.
Here's what I've figured out that you haven't. Red Shield is nothing more than the vehicle for an elaborate penny stock scam. That's it in one sentence.
Red Shield never stood a chance of standing up to and in depth scrutiny or longterm use in the field. Conboy knows that. Others on the inside know that. Even I know that just from reading stuff on Eco's own website. The difference between Red Shield and a Pet Rock is that a Pet Rock works. I had one, but it eventually got tossed.
Just an elaborate scam using a pretty old product scam for appearances.
Direct your anger at the source, or dump your money in the fine company to help them get their head above water.
Shelf Life of AF21 = ???
In the case of the fire Listing, you make a good point that ANY component changes/modifications would require a redo, regardless of whether that component factors in as an actual fire retardant or not. Thanks for bringing that up.
The termite stuff is all based on DOT and not the other ingredients. So they could drop AF21 altogether with no impact on termites. The root problem remains there anyway. There's just not enough quantity there to meet minimum AWPA requirements. That is straight from ECo's own public documents. You can figure this out by reading the MSDS, the ESR, and AWPA UC requirements. The Math is pretty easy. In addition, Eco has to use EPA registered borates (also in details in their patent application, along with AWPA requirements), which is a select and more expensive borate (I believe they have claimed to use Nisus). If they have cut costs and gone to a cheaper non-registered version, then they are double-non-compliant. They would then have the wrong DOT and not enough to-boot. I do not know the answer to their current borate product choice, but the 10-Q hints that they probably aren't paying premium prices for anything today.....except their CEO and CTO. They don't seem to work any better than Red Shield.
Regarding your last paragraph, Yes, in the real World it would be a complete do-over. But Conboy works with QAI for fire Listing. I doubt QAI cares as long as the check doesn't bounce.
Even just a modification of the amount of the original AF21 would trigger a do-over. Since there is no 3rd party audit program at this time, by the 10-Q's own admission, is there any reason to think there's anything besides water and red dye in the product? Today, w/o 3rd party audits, yet again, ESR, LARR, and Honolulu approvals are all NFG. Same should be true of QAI Listing.
BTW, what's up with the product litigation referred to in the report? Have been expecting that to happen for some time.
And now he's claiming a 'Class A One Hour' rating (Page 18). Why do I keep thinking Jon Lovitz could play such a good Steve Convoy when they finally make the movie?
I normally don't read fiction......
Don't get too excited about AF31 either. Another weak patent.
http://www.ecob.net/_cms/userfiles/0925120451MATERIAL%20SAFETY%20DATA%20SHEET%20AF31%20ECOB.pdf
Potassium Citrate is an extremely common component of fire extinguishers. Not sure if it can be called a "fire retardant".
Root problems for Eco:
#3. At any given time, a limited number of people see Eco as a short term penny stock opportunity.
#4. Nobody is actually willing to invest in the "company". Need people willing to put cash in it and leave it there for the duration.
It's being run as a penny stock mill, not a building material company with a long term plan or longterm investors.
Applicable to 3&4: Even the 'big discount buyers' have a drop dead departure date upfront.
I owe you and your cohorts a bit of thanks, I guess. I suspect you guys have replaced me as the person/people on this blog that the regulars listen to the least.
Correct, but consider the impact if Eco Licensees rebel. Nothing to stop them from putting some borate and red dye in water and doing their own deal. No Eco overhead. Doesn't make sense that they aren't doing that now, unless they feel Eco's got deep pockets for warranty and liability. That would be a funny assumption.
The $300K doesn't make any sense either. That's over twice the going price for a truckload of treated wood, if not WAY over the price. Shelter is known for getting rock bottom pricing out of vendors, so $300K is not a valid number. Based on Eco's cash situation, Shelter would have had to front the wood, like the Depot 'pilt program,' so that tanks the 6-digits. And why wouldn't Eco get the Doug Fir out of the Denver Licensee market and ship to Houston if this was a legit attempt at making money? That's already halfway there from Salem. This PR doesn't hold any water at all. Eco may be putting $300K into this order, but they are not getting anywhere near that back in cash....not from Shelter anyway.
Conboy is obviously making friends in his Licensee network, too. Imagine how Eco Licensee Guthrie Lumber in Austin, TX feels when Eco ships painted product from OR to Houston. On any given day, Guthrie Lumber is a ghost town (for a number of reasons pre-dating Eco). Seven TL's REALLY would have been a big deal for them. Guthrie gets squat. Same as when that material goes from Colton, CA to NY and NY. Cuts Licensee Interstate Lumber in CT right out of the loop. Great way to build loyalty in your Licensee network. Go around them! At least he treats his stockholders the same way, so you have to give Conboy that.
Between Salem and Houston, you pass by a lot of forest and a lot of mills, and pay a lot of freight to get there. Good Luck on the margins, again. Selling higher-priced Doug Fir in a cheaper-priced pine market is not a winning strategy. Breaker, Breaker, good buddy, we got us a great big Conboy convoy!
Can Post #6668 come back? I thought is was a great analogy.
Another false statement from Eco in a PR:
"VISTA, Calif., Nov. 6, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Eco Building Products, Inc., (OTCQB:ECOB), a manufacturer of treated wood products, today announced the unveiling of Eco Armor...."
From 2006/2009/2012 IBC:
"TREATED WOOD. Wood and wood-based materials that
use vacuum-pressure impregnation processes to enhance fire
retardant or preservative properties."
Therefore, Eco is not a manufacturer of "treated wood products".
To PM. I don't know Jeremy, have not met Jeremy, but I know where he works. I've seen his picture on Linkedin, with that counts. I haven't sent anything to Jeremy (or his employer), talked to him, e-mailed him or whatever line of communication you wish to add to the list. And for the sake of clarity, Jeremy has not had any communication with me either. As far as I know, my name would mean nothing to him, and possibly nothing to everybody at his employer. I hope this isn't a big disappointment.
I'm the same person now that I will be in the end.
Putting my own life at risk, I bought some plastic tubing from a Home Depot today at lunchtime. There were no rot, decay, termite or fire claims for this tubing. Just a promise of a hole on either end and none in between.
It helps to know people all over the place, but you also have to do a parity check on those sources. Easy to drive to a store and walk in the door, even when two of the stores I already had pictures from. Maybe ICC-ES will figure that out one day (trust and verify), but I doubt it. I think they are fat and happy with the checks.