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very rare broker that will allow otc/pink shorts demand $2.5 per share collateral. No one in their right mind would spend $2,500,600 to short $600 worth of stock.
thats a good fairy tale! MM selling convertible debenture at big discount to trading price is short? Guys that can print nearly free shares are never short. They can always print more. Company will gladly give it to them for more cash.
his 10,000 bid doesn't mean much when he got 200,000,000 more to sell
no conversions are NOT done. VNDM and BMIC are the two diluters on this stock and they still been selling. Not as aggressive and might be close but still dumping.
did you get most of it out .012-.015 today?
I didn't get the .0001s but did get the small prints .0012.
it already went .0001. sorry you missed it, better luck next time.
filled those buys .0012. too small though. somebody went .005 buy after those hits.
As suspected trading resumed. Now the .0001 fills reason why I said using market orders in grey market is a very bad idea.
odds are very high it will trade again. There was nothing filed on it on daily list and according to FINRA trading should have resumed today. Some screw up happened somewhere. I'd think chances are pretty good it'll be trading Monday.
Put it this way. You could be broker simply by filing the correct forms and have enough capitalization. Call Apex clearing and sign up with them for a fee. Go to DAS and sign up your firm to get access to their trading platform for your clients.
Boom you done. Now all you got to do is find clients and do customer support. Which isn't always easy when you got guys thinking its your fault because their order isn't going out in market that is non-existant. Or its your fault that third party software providers server is lagging that day. Or that you stole their money when MM fills their market order for too much slippage etc...
So do you have a source or reference to show us how brokers make market in grey sheet stocks?
Broker is just a middle man. They take your money which gets placed with clearing firm which does all the book keeping. Making sure your account is complaint with rules. When you buy something they are the ones that work with other clearing firms to exchange cash/shares. Orders that are placed with broker get sent to market place where MMs, specialists and ECNs execute your order.
Most brokers don't really do much other than customer service. Clearing firm handles your cash/shares when its exchanged/requested. Platforms where you see quotes, your orders get routed, etc are usually provided by 3rd party software firms. Orders get executed my MMs/ECNs.
Obviously there are some exceptions big brokers like Etrade have their own clearing firm. Have their own software etc. But they are all separate parts of the company. Etrade definitely does not make a market in stocks though. In fact they sell their order flow to select parties that mostly fill your orders in dark pools that aren't even publicly quoted(thats for big baords).
why would it say they don't share data instead of there are no market makers? Where is your source for what you claiming?
I have traded greys for a long time and usually do really well with them because I have a knack for getting my orders filled. I know for certain they do not stay with your broker because they end up in different destinations.
Unlike other financial markets,
• No recent bid or ask quotes are available because no market makers share data or quote such stocks. There is no quoting system available to record and settle trades.
And your source for this is?
Broker is simply a middle man that takes order to market place. ECNs and MMs match orders.
Yeah it is basic stuff. You can't sell shares when there is no market to sell them at.
Uhmm market makers do facilitate trades on grey market. They get buys, sells and match them at their discretion. No bid or ask on l2 simply means they aren't obligated to fill your order for min size how they do on pinks or otc. And yes there is volume shown on greys. You also can see time and sales.
"are they taking your order?"
There is no market to take your order to.
don't you think market maker needs to accept incoming order from a broker to be able to facilitate a trade? Broker is just a middle man. There is nothing wrong with brokers not accepting orders when there is no market being made for security. They can accept the order and keep it on their books but that isn't going to help you execute your order.
Good weekend to you too. No relaxing for me. Got a flight Chi to DC tonight to play a few games in bball tournament this weekend. Then cross country flight to west coast Sunday.
That is fairly obvious given no market makers are accepting orders.
They are not refusing to sell them. Its just there is no market to sell them at lol
yes it is. Thought today was the 19th. long week for me lol
It is true some brokers do not allow grey sheets but those brokers tend to not allow otcbb or pinks either so for most that shouldn't be an issue here.
Broker is just a middle man, they have nothing to do with resumption. An issue here is market markets aren't making a market hence most brokers aren't accepting trades.
I have tried multiple brokers and none are accepting trades. Having traded dozens of grey sheet stocks I am yet to see Etrade not accept orders when trading should have resumed.
There could be much at play here. 10-k wasn't filed(which really shouldn't affect it going to greys but never know). Suspension had section 12(k) of 1934 act attached.
SECTION 12(k) OF THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934
15 U.S.C. § 78l(k) (1988)
(k)(1) Trading suspensions. If in its opinion the public interest and the protection of investors so require, the Commission is authorized by order-
(A) summarily to suspend trading in any security (other than an exempted security) for a period not exceeding 10 business days, and
(B) summarily to suspend all trading on any national securities exchange or otherwise, in securities other than exempted securities, for a period not exceeding 90 calendar days. The action described in subparagraph (B) shall not take effect unless the Commission notifies the President of its decision and the President notifies the Commission that the President does not disapprove of such decision.
(2) Emergency orders.
(A) The Commission, in an emergency, may by order summarily take such action to alter, supplement, suspend, or impose requirements or restrictions with respect to any matter or action subject to regulation by the Commission or a self-regulatory organization under this title, as the Commission determines is necessary in the public interest and for the protection of investors-
(i) to maintain or restore fair and orderly securities markets (other than markets in exempted securities); or
(ii) to ensure prompt, accurate, and safe clearance and settlement of transactions in securities (other than exempted securities).
(B) An order of the Commission under this paragraph (2) shall continue in effect for the period specified by the Commission, and may be extended, except that in no event shall the Commission's action continue in effect for more than 10 business days, including extensions. In exercising its authority under this paragraph, the Commission shall not be required to comply with the provisions of section 553 of title 5, United States Code, or with the provisions of section 19(c) of this title.
(3) Termination of emergency actions by President. The President may direct that action taken by the Commission under paragraph (1)(B) or paragraph (2) of this subsection shall not continue in effect.
(4) Compliance with orders. No member of a national securities exchange, broker, or dealer shall make use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce to effect any transaction in, or to induce the purchase or sale of, any security in contravention of an order of the Commission under this subsection unless such order has been stayed, modified, or set aside as provided in paragraph (5) of this subsection or has ceased to be effective upon direction of the President as provided in paragraph (3).
(5) Limitations on review of orders. An order of the Commission pursuant to this subsection shall be subject to review only as provided in section 25(a) of this title. Review shall be based on an examination of all the information before the Commission at the time such order was issued. The reviewing court shall not enter a stay, writ of mandamus, or similar relief unless the court finds, after notice and hearing before a panel of the court, that the Commission's action is arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with law.
(6) Definition of emergency. For purposes of this subsection, the term 'emergency' means a major market disturbance characterized by or constituting-
(A) sudden and excessive fluctuations of securities prices generally, or a substantial threat thereof, that threaten fair and orderly markets, or
(B) a substantial disruption of the safe or efficient operation of the national system for clearance and settlement of securities, or a substantial threat thereof.
Its all a speculation at this point. Most companies go silent during halts. Some defend. I wasn't expecting anything "official" to be put out.
Most do resume trading though for whats it worth.
oops you right. Got my dates mixed up.
Not a good sign that it hasn't resumed. They either didn't comply with regulators requests or some otehr issue popped up. Sometimes these do start trading an hour or two into the day. Hopefully thats the case. If not we'll probably see some sort of filing later today.
trading will resume Monday as suspension ends today at midnight. "suspended for the
period from 9:30 a.m. EDT on October 6, 2017, through 11:59 p.m. EDT on October 19, 2017"
exactly. When stocks are suspended MMs are prohibited from making a market so they don't accept orders or even show any quotes. Broker can take your order though and hold it until trading resumes.
your broker can accept your order, doesn't mean its live in the market
but seriously putting in a MARKET sells on greys is the most dumb thing one can do. For one they can fill you .0001 since there are no quotes. Another is generally after greys open they bounce back from where they open. Like BITCF being a good example. Opens .11 goes to almost $1 same day.
assumptions are just that. Its not open for trading yet.
no you DO NOT sell to market unless you want to risk filling .0001
it was not up from price it was suspended. it dropped to .11 which was almost 90% down. It did bounce .11 to $1 though for 900% from lows.
well said. When your trading strategy is left with nothing but hope the game is already over.
Not going to front this will hurt. Its just amazing I rarely ever hold anything overnight, especially with any size. Every time I try I give up before huge moves. Like HDYN had 600k .07 avg sold out for small gains then .33 day or two later. 500k BTCS .105 get out then .6s couple days later. Happens over and over. This time said f it. Going to just hold do or die. Then saw it go through .06 and sold a bunch to lighten up. Sized down to where it was more manageable and even stopped watching it. Of course SEC halts and going to stick me with ugly loss. Its like I am not allowed to bank on monsters lol Just got to day trade and be happy with my flips.
not that its going to help us any but people behind this will probably end up in jail. Its not going to be hard to figure out who sold into the promo when stock virtually had no float or volume before this. Its not like some thicker stock where a group with 20 ppl split up and took smaller parts in the scheme.
Sorry man its going to hurt. I got over 200k and will probably lose close to $10k. But could be worse I sold like 300k mostly .06-.065 before symbol change. Won't even bring up I got hit for like 500k shares on bid .075sh trying to put in a bottom maybe 2 weeks ago or so. Luckily sold 400k .085-.09. If I just held I'd be slaughtered.
well it was up 800% from where it opened. Obviously stock is not going to open higher with freaked out investors selling after it gets down to the lowest exchange possible.
Greys no l2 or anything but I usually crush on delist days. Especially well followed stocks that have a lot of volume. Like PHOT for weeks I was flipping 50-100k for .01-.02-.03 intraday. Was easiest money out there. Then SEC froze my account because I traded it so much and they thought I had something to do with the promo guys lol
don't stress, gather some funds. I'll gladly sell you my shares .025-.03 when company is cleared...
yep. usually opens 50-90% down and bounces 100-300%. BITCF bounced like 800%.