I believe this was also a problem with current IM machines. When the LiquidMetal at 700° hits the mold steel, it could amalgamate. Currently, the Engel machines flood the mold envelope with Argon.

Proof that LQMT can be manufactured at production quantities for APPLE ONLY.
Visser will not have the learnings or equipment that Apple has. CIP will not transfer the knowledge obtained during a large scale production start up.

Your response makes no sense. Let me break it down for you.
1. The patents are out there for everyone to read, so there is no problem talking about them. Just because Apple sunk some money into them(So did LMQT) does not give them the right to a gag order.

2.Sheet Process: I have always been dubious to the benefit of this process for Apple. This lend itself more the aviation industry. Why make a part from a sheet of LM for 2 times or more the cost of using sheet metal. I don't see the benefit. The physical properties of steel are not a limiting factor for the parts Apple makes. They want cheaper parts. That is why injected LM is on their radar. They can have a 50% cost reduction on one of the most expensive parts of their phone.

3. I am long and bullish LMQT. But, if you think Apple has the right to put hold on Visser production until after iPhone 6, I would get out of this stock. I agree, I think it will be in an iPhone some day and LQMT will get no revenue from it, but the buzz should raise the stock. Apple has no worries about the competition beating them to market with LM. They own the rights to it. So why do they need to stifle Visser production. I have to believe if LQMT had an order they would move ahead with it.

Sandy, I don't agree. Apple has nothing to do with Visser. NO Apple products will be produced at Visser. They do not have the capacity and geographically they don't work with current cell phone supply chain. LM is free to discuss with potential customers the abilities of their partner Visser. How in the world would Apple have any say into what LM discloses about their own manufacturer.

Look Derek was very professional in his presentation. I have mentioned this before, but I told Derek I was a share holder before our meeting. I don't think anything was shared that isn't in the public. I was reluctant to share this meeting, because of backlash like this. I hope this doesn't get back to Derek.

Of course, I could be making all of this up but I would put something juicer in then a key fab if I was. Like every other post on this board "Take it, for what its worth"

I told Derek I owned shares in LM before our meeting and I don't think he shared anything that wasn't already out there. I hadn't heard about the Bentley key fab, but now that I have, I think that project is dead.

To shed a little more light on my meeting with Derek.

I work in a building that has several contract engineering firms with full model shop capabilities. All the big medical device companies are in the area and a lot of our work is in this area. However, I mostly focus on consumer goods. I invited Derek because there could be a real application for LM some day. Especially if they get the beryllium free version perfected. I was open with Derek and told him I owned the stock so I don't believe he shared anything he shouldn't have. I also got the feeling LM did not share a lot with him. I think his role is to get LM into one of the medical companies here.

I know my report seem grim to many people, but I was happy to hear i could have working tool in 12 weeks. Personnel I was starting to doubt this. Then again, I may be the sucker this minute.

Here is the low down on what can currenlty be made Visser. I met with Derek Rasmussen last week and got to touch my first Liquid metal parts of the IM machines. Here is what I learned about what Visser can do currently.
• Parts are limited to 100g. Materion ships 100 g ingots and these must be used in full for each shot. So if you part weighs 25 grams plans on making a 4 cavity mold.
• Materion only makes the original LM formula ingot which has beryllium in it. So, implantable medical parts are NOT possible. Non beryllium formula is being worked on.
• Engle E-motion 110 press is used for the LM parts. You are restricted to a 6" x 6" envelope for you parts and clamping force provided by 110 to press. Press are all electric as I suspected. Not sure how many they have. I think only one.
• Mold cost is between $30,000 and $80,000 depending on complexity and cavity count. Derek mentioned they tested a 50 cavity mold that spit out parts for $2 each. That would be a 2 g part.
• Injection temperature is around 700C. This is very hot for IM machines. So, no more talk about low temp injection that saves energy cost, Please.
• A new blow molding type, process is being worked on, Rumored.
• LM is near zero shrink which is good and bad. Getting the parts out of the mold is big problem when you have no shrink. Parts need to be designed with minimum 3° draft. ID guys hate this.
• The good news is I was told if I have a part that fits the LM's criteria I could be have pilot run parts off a production tool in 12 weeks. So, there is a process that works for the right case.
• One possible part that could come out of Visser is a Bentley Key fab shell.

What you won't get out of Visser in the near future are, 3D printed LM parts or sheet type parts.

Can Graphene be cast as water proof?

Stop with all the LM is waterproof crap. It is no more waterproof than the current Aluminum. You will need to seal up the glass, buttons and jacks weather you use LM or Aluminum. If you think your going to put and assembled iPhone in a IM machine and inject LM around it, you are sorely mistaken.

The shape is a bit different but definitely the same material and color. It is Aluminum 7075 with a bead blast finish. For sure it is not LM. Sorry.

Fair enough...

Charts do predict and mitigate risks. Today's action based on the chart could have still been beneficial...depending on your trading strategy. My prediction, based on the indicators, was that the price would go up today, which it did. It didn't close green, but a 4.65% profit was attainable. I'll take that any day.


I'm afraid that is not correct. Stocks are not like ballistics. You were right once. If you are right 20 days in a row, I may believe you are on to something, but otherwise it is an educated guess. We'd all be rich if charts predicted the future.

Like I mentioned previously...I know nothing about this company...but charts don't lie :)

Looking back charts do not lie, but they do not predict.

Chime in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see LM replacing Depleted Uranium (DU). DU is used where lots of mass is needed for high energy. LM is too light to be effective here. I think LM was going to be used in a sabot where strength is important. This is needed in rail guns like the Navy is working one.

I use E*Trade as well and like it. If you get a checking account with them and there debit card you can use it in any ATM in the world Free. If the ATM charges you directly, E*Trade refunds the amount charged. Handy card if you travel and are away from your local ATM's.

Also, if you have an office near you just go in with your last statement and they will do all the work of transferring. They usually give you some money for transferring,up to $600 depending on transfer amount.

my biased opinion.

Tomorrow def spike to .32 guarantee. I bet money!


I will make that bet. How much?

If there are more buildings. Please provide the PIN for them. Otherwise, you are just starting rumors.
You are correct that I underestimated the building size though. It is 42,000 sq ft still way short of 250,000.

The building size doesn't matter much anyhow. You could fit 50 or more machines in the 42,000 building. I look forward to the day Visser gets 50 machines running.

Building Size

Visser is the EXCLUSIVE manufacturer of all NON-CE LM parts. Visser is up to the task... Visser has over 250,000 square feet of production space in Denver...with "other " warehouse's fully owned by Barney waiting to to filled up as well with LM parts. SOON.

The building is no where near 250,000 sq ft more like 33,000 and Visser has no off-shore presence. So, they are not up to the task for large volumes. Only products for small niche markets will come out of Denver facility. Denver has 2 maybe 3 machines with 3 minute cycle times. Do the math, only low volume is possible.

ps You can look up building size on Denver county website. Property PIN is 160517925

I think it is hilarious that when I pulled this up the suggested videos were about how to spot a bluff and best poker bluffs ever. Are others seeing this?

I have heard a lot of talk about LM being waterproof on this board. What makes anyone think LM is more waterproof then aluminum? The waterproofing lies will all the other components. (ie Audio jack, buttons, charge port, screen). Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no advantage of using LM for waterproofing.

It doesn't look like any Apple news will come out of the CC next week. We would have heard already if Apple was launching a product next week and LQMT cannot talk about Apple products before hand.

Any guesses on our next best guess. Knives? Do the Kang's pay royalties on this? My guess is another boring CC. With not much but talk about proto-types and maybe a little of the new patent. Hope there is more, but will be without internet or phone all next week.
I guess I'll hold. What's another 5 years.

dawggy. We are in violent agreement. :)

I will watch this stock drop this week, hoping Santa has plant at the North pole cranking out LM toys. Does Santa pay royalties?

You are correct with the general filing explanation, but the patent office never comes to look at a proto-type or process. All you submit is documents. This can all be generated with CAD. You can prove a process or device all on the computer. I have been through the process several times and this is the case. Everyone wants to be first to file so you don't waste a lot time proving a design or process. It can be a long road form application to production process.

I would love to be proven wrong here, but the fact is there is no plant making production reading LM sheets at this time.

When you apply for a patent you would not have a plant running. You may not even have a proto-type of the process at the time. Patents are applied for during the conceptual phase. Rest assured there is no a plant spiting out sheets of LM. Just look how long it's taking to get molded LM perfected.

Chances of iPhone with LM are slim.
I think we all agree that the 5C will not have LM in it, but I still hear a lot of talk about the 5S. I don't see this happening and here is why.
1. Jony Ive will not allow an ID change for the 5S. It will maintain the 5 series ID language. The 5 shape was optimized so the CNC machine time could be reduced. The advantage of LM is you can have curvy surfaces again. If Apple puts LM in a phone it will be a new series phone with new ID.
2. Apple would need 10+ million phones just for the launch. This means the LM injection process needs to be rock solid with very low scrap rates. I don't see signs of this. I think the injection process of LM will be baby steps. That said, even though LM gets no money for Apple using it, it would be huge if Apple ever does, and shows a rock solid process for injecting LM.
3. Bottom line I don't see LM in a iPhone this year. Not even the sim tray.

So what else is out there?

I will be visiting the Visser plant in Denver Colorado tomorrow. I will report back with my findings as soon as I get home. If there is anything specific that people would like me to ask please let me know.

Lots of Questions.
1. How many employees? Rough visual count.
2. How many Engal Machines?
3. General machine count, Molding, grinding, 3D printing.
4. Rough size of building. I thought it mention in CC as something around 100,000 sq ft (could be wrong on this). If you measure it on Google or look it up on Denver county records it around 30,000sq ft. Building ID number for records look-up. #160517925
5. Does the building look added on to?
6. It would be nice to dig threw their trash. May get some scrap parts.
7. What is their monthly electric bill?

Look forward to getting any info from your visit. Thanks for the recon.

I had a friend check Visser out a while back. He found the building is owned by a lawyer whos only client is Barney Visser. He also did a walk around the building and it was dead at the time. No cars in the lot. This was at 6 PM so maybe they work banker hours. It would be nice to dig through their trash or hang out over lunch and talk to some employees. I'll check and see if he could do a run by during lunch.

This is true at room temp and atmospheric pressure, but with abnormally little heat and a low pressure it becomes liquid, hence the unique ability to reach a liquid state is why its the name of the company and material.


I thought the melting temp of LM was around 600° C. This is not abnormally low. It is above Zinc and on the order of Aluminum. I still don't get the advantage of a big sheet for Apple. I think the net shape you get from Injection Molding would work best for Apple. Molding provides a much better surface finish with more feature detail.

Also, why would you want to 3D print from LM. It would be great for prototyping, but it is orders of magnitude slower then molding it. I'm sure there is a place for these technologies, just not sure it lies with high volume consumer products.

Sheets can be used for the basis of Ipads, laptops, and a host of larger items. The injection molding process is still best for watches, etc.

I am not sure sheets would be used for this purpose. You need some attach points (ie screw boss, snap...) on these frames. Stamping process will not be good for this. Also, the coefficient of restitution is very high with LM so stamping would be hard in itself.

Of course, there's not much available in the way of machines to accomplish the manufacturing. It's a new technology. When Steel was first invented, it took a while for an industry to develop. Same here, but I believe this technology will advance more rapidly than it took steel to catch on.


I totally agree. This was the point I did a poor job of conveying. Is 3D printing of LM possible someday, Sure. Has LM made a 3D printer and currently testing it at Visser? I don't see how. They couldn't make a die-cast machine. They needed Buhler and they can't make and electric IM machine. They need Engel. If they are working with 3D printing it is probably for rapid tooling purposes, not direct LM printing.

I am not bearish LM. I have been in this stock for over 5 years and followed all the posts on the yahoo board back in the day. Very few people would be happier then me if the stock was to hit .45 by the end of the day and $5.00 by the end of the year. But this is just not going to happen. It will take more time.

Yes, I am aware they are experimenting with printing tissue and organs, but I have not heard of a single successful implant. I don't follow this that close so I may be wrong. But, regardless this is nothing like what is needed to print LM. I just don't see any evidence research being done on this let along the existence of functional machines.

Do you really think that if Human Organs can be 3D Printed that they cant Print Parts with Liquidmetal?

A human organ has never been successfully printed. You are doubling down on your BS. Your are just playing with me. No one takes you seriously on this board. So, I should follow their lead. I won't be responding to your BS anymore unless you show some proof.

I Disagree strongly. 3D print of parts with Liquidmetal is NOW being done. And so is Human organs. Check It$

You can disagree all you want, but you are still wrong. Show me one shred of proof that even 10 grams of LM has been successfully printed from a 3D printer. You are making this up. Before I thought you were just very optimistic, but now you are lying. And trust me I wish your weren't.

Combine 3D Printing with Liquidmetal and its an Unstoppable Combo.3D Printing of human Organs is now possible as well$

Do you know what amorphous means? The cooling of LM is critical in order for the metal to remain amorphous. What makes you think a 3D printer has this capability? Correct me if I am wrong, but I follow the 3Dprinting world and nothing comes close to being able to do this. Plus if this was going to be a possibility LM would have to partner with someone like they did with Engel (ie Stratasys) to make a machine like this. There is just no way this will happen anytime soon. Please stop with this BS or post some technical reason why this is possible. I agree with Watts, please don't waste the bandwidth on these crazy topics.

Not everyone has an Iphone but most everyone does wear a watch.

Omega does not sell 50 million watches a decade let along a year. Their watches are priced at over $3,000 and you think more people will have these over an iPhone. I doubt it.

Why do you think it is a patent move? This stock has never moved on patent news in the past. I think it is the 5s rumor.

I believe Visser already owned the building from a previous venture. I had a friend in Denver drive out and look at it. It is and old distribution building of some sort. It has around 30 loading docks that won't be needed. He said looked like some new painting had been done, but no cars in the lot. It was 6:00PM so maybe all had gone home. They are not working overtime.