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cricket, Wasn't it stated in Ramseys email (I'm doing this by memory and I'm over 40) that there was an Embassy Tan, but not a vanilla tan? If I recall the letter said something like "no one has asked for it, but I am sure we can build it"...
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I recall that the demand was not there and it had not been built yet. I would have asked SKS if the statement on the most recent filing that said wave still needed 3 million dollars in R&D to complete Embassy included completing premium services for the TPM and a vanilla attestation server?
You guys are banking an awefull lot on Attestation. Barge or snackman62, did SkS emphasize the importance and any potential revenue stream from Attestation over dinner???? TIA.....CL
If an OEM decides to wait an additional three months what do you expect Wave to do? And would you say that that is Wave's fault?
How about ask them for an advance or a loan so they don't have to sell another 25% of the company to finance the delay. It's not Waves fault???
I disagree, if wave overspent expecting deployment sooner, that's Wave's fault. The consistent unaccountability is why the 122 million dollars was spent so quickly. You guys are letting them off the hook for wasting the shareholders money to the point they are desperately seeking financing and willing to sell off the assetts you all invested in and paid for before they were able to bear any returns. What do you do? Forgive him and buy him dinner..CL
Snackman62', The Jury is still out, but this reminds me of Twelve Angry Men. In the begining 11/12 thought the guy was guilty....At the end 12/12 thought he was innocent. In March of 2000 11/12 of us thought wave was going to 100...Today well lets hope we don't get to 12/12 thinking it aint....CL
go-kitesurf
These boards are here for everyone to learn from each other. I was on my way out the door when you posted that the short interest going down did not seem important and that if the finance partners wanted to they could just sell their own shares. Please don't take this the wrong way but it is apparrent you do not understand the finance deal. No one knows all the details but if you don't mind I will explain it to you as I understand it and if anyone see's it differently please join in the discussion.
Wave sold HH preffered shares to the finance partners for 5.5 million dollars along with some warrants that we will discuss a little later. As an HH shareholder you are entitled to a 12% or so dividend on the 5.5 million you laid out. Wave will pay that dividend until the shareholders convert the HH shares voluntarily or by wave maintaining a share price of 1.90 or more for I think it's 15 consecutive days (I am sure some one will give us the correct # if I am wrong). They will not be selling shares they own until after they convert the HH shares. They don't need to convert the shares to sell shares, they can simply short shares and and collect 12% for as long as it takes for wave to force them out by getting above 1.90. There is a small finance charge for the short shares but it's close to 1% of the settlement price annually. Imagine having 5.5 million dollars worth of Wave sold and collecting 12% on your money with the same risk as a T-Bill. Although they are hedged and have all their risk out, they did not need to sell all 7.24 million shares short, just 5.5 million dollars worth, so they are long 1.2 million shares if they shorted at an average price of 90 cents not only for free but being paid 680k dividend for it as well. It gets better for them.......
Warrants. The deal included warrants that would automatically exercise at 1.13 if wave went above 1.90 as with the preffered shares. They have warrants on 4 million shares at 1.13. so for no risk, they can buy wave at 1.13 for 5 years. It's like free leaps except they MUST buy wave if it goes over 1.90 as with the preffered. The good news is if wave gets above 1.90, they stop paying 12% interest on 5.5 million and they get the money from the warrants being exercised at 1.13 which is another 4.5 million dollars to wave. But if wave goes down, it gets better for them........
Right know the HH share holders a conversion price of .76 cents a shares. Right Know. If Wave needs more money (and they do) and does another PP HH share holders have 2 rights. Take it or leave it, and if the other deal is done at a lower price than 76 cents, they get to lower their conversion price from 76 cents down to whatever the next deal is done at. What happens to all those shares they are short at 90 cents? Instead of covering at 76 cents, if the next deal is done at 50 cents they make more money. Once hedged, it does not matter which way wave goes, up or down, they make money. Right know my guess is they would prefer it go up. If the short interest was up 3 million this month I would say they prefer it go down.
That's a lot of information. It's how I understand it. If I am wrong in any of my points I would hope the board will correct me. As you can see watching the short interest to me is a way of seeing what the PP partners are doing with thier shares. Someone is definetly short a couple of million more shares since Wave sought financing this spring. You are right the short interest is not news worthy, but worth taking a look at......CL
Magdelina,
If you truly believe that, you also have to ask yourself what is the impact on the share price going to be with another 20 to 30 million shares sold? This is an investment. Despite what the CEO states, dilution must be considered. If your belief is accurate IMO it will guarantee a trip back to the BB. JMHO......CL
Barge / Snackman62...Apparently the relationship with Verisign seems to be important. Did SkS mention the Verisign relationship? Is it still alive or was it one of those realtionships where the "Partner" attends Lee U and splits? Barge, sure hope Verisgn was not one of those companies SkS was insulting saying "they didn't get it"...TIA......CL
One more thing...A reason to short would be too lock in profits. something we are all guilty of not doing. They could lock in profits, get the cash back they laid out plus a few bucks and still have the warrants that would automatically get exercised if wave broke 1.90 for 10 or 15 days (or whatever it is) and give wave about 4 or 5 million more in cash. Not a bad deal if wave goes up...CL
The only way to sell their shares is if they were registered and they are not, and before that they would have to convert the H to common which will not happen IMO until they are forced out. They are getting a 12% or so dividend from wave on the H shares and can hedge the position by shorting. They may even pay less than 76 cents when they convert if wave breaks support and does some future financing below 76 cents. Maybe it isn't good news. I happen to think it was a positive thing. I was thinking the stock has been in the 80 cent range for a month and maybe they just don't want to sell down here. You can think what you like. But you know what does stink? Some one was offering a lot of shares at 85 cents. There is some volume offered. BTW I did not issue a press release. I mentioned my thought on a stock message board........CL
I'm not...I was of the assumption that the Finance partners have been shorting since April or so. Remember all those one dollar shares sold? I even bought some. Well if the selling has slowed down, maybe, just maybe they really want to own the stock. Hows that for a thought? Does not mean they won't be selling at a buck at close to a 25% return, but they are not selling here. It could be considered positive that the numbers went down. I am still very fearfull of the GB shares. 1.7 million from a company that feels WAve harmed them by taking sooooooo long to register their shares, would have me nervous. We will soon see....CL
Ronle,
That is actually a positive thing. The short interest dropped. that means either the price was to low for the finance shares to be sold, or they are not aggresively hedging their position. If I was long I would say a drop in short interest was good. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Good luck guys!...CL
Anybody see July's short numbers?? TIA
That was too funny..RFLOL.eom
Snackman62..I respect Crickets opinion. Did not see anyone dispute his statement. It is a logical conclusion that I concure with. Everything you state about Waves potential success is all opinion. I don't agree with your views, but would not ask you to refrain from posting your posting your opinion. Please don't ask me not to refrain from posting mine...CL
Mighunter....I have no position. If I saw something I liked I would have a very big position very quickly. Calling Wave correctly would be like a getting a good grade on a paper in one of my old business classes. Sure beats the case studies we used to do. Best of all it's live, real and will have a conclusion. At this point I have taken a bearish position. Trust me it's tough to read all the positive posts without getting a Kool Aid buzz, but I am determined to look at wave for what is released and what it is today rather than what it is speculated to be. In all the business's I have bought and sold, I would only pay or get compensated on for what it was doing today, not what it could do tomorrow ...CL
Snackman62/Eamonshute...I read it yesterday in Cricketcrikets Post..Do you guys have Cricket on Ignore? I don't make things up!..(bolds are mine)
http://investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1239513
2bStealthy, awk a question about TTP's or Trusted Third Parties. I was looking at an Intel White Paper and frankly it appears to me that Verisign is attempting to move into the device attestation space, something I have always considered wavx to have a lock on. Now it goes on to speak about wireless so I'm not sure if this is specifically the wireless notebooks that the white paper is addressing as having Verisign as being the TTP for tpm device attestation or in general regarding all TPM's. If that is true and they are successful then wave's revenues really are more heavily dependent on utilization of these "services" being bundled by NSM... I have a headache and may not be thinking clearly here so I am hoping someone can provide some additional information..
Here is some of the items I copied out of the white paper:
http://www.intel.com/design/mobile/platform/downloads/Trusted_Platform_Module_White_Paper.pdf
Endorsement Key (EK)
The Endorsement Key (EK) is a public/private key-pair. The size of the key-pair is mandated to have a modulus (a.k.a. key size) of 2048 bits. The private component of the key-pair is generated within the TPM and is never exposed outside the TPM.
The EK is unique to the particular TPM and therefore the particular platform. There are two ways to generate the EK. The first method is to use the TPM command specified for this purpose (TPM_CreateEndorsementKeyPair). The second method is called “squirting”, in which the TPM manufacturer can “squirt”
an externally generated EK into the TPM during the manufacturing process.
Note that much of the value (or trust) associated with the TPM comes from the fact that the EK is unique and that it is protected within the TPM at all times. This property is certified by the Endorsement Certificate (Cert). The same party that provides the EK may not provide the Endorsement Cert.
Attestation Identity Key (AIK)
AIKs are used to provide platform authentication to a service provider. This is also called pseudo-anonymous authentication and is different from user authentication. Refer to the section on attestation under usage models for an illustration of how AIKs are obtained.
Certificates
Three types of certificates that may be stored in the TPM are: Endorsement Certificate (Endorsement Cert), Platform Cert, and Conformance Cert. The Endorsement Cert contains the public key of the EK. The purpose of the Endorsement Cert is to provide attestation that the particular TPM is genuine, i.e.
that the EK is protected.
The Platform Cert is provided by the platform vendor and provides attestation that the security components of the platform are genuine.
The Conformance Cert is provided by the platform vendor or an evaluation lab. It provides attestation by an accredited party as to the security properties of the
platform.
AIKs are created using Certificates (also called Credentials) available within the TPM. AIKs do not have any direct association with the EK or the credentials.
AIKs are always bound to the platform and can be used to provide attestation to the platform’s identification and configuration. It is important to note that the
service provider (or challenger) trusts the Trusted Third Party (TTP) to do its due diligence before issuing AIKs to a platform. Example Application (Microsoft* Outlook)
The illustration below shows how the TPM can be used through Microsoft* Outlook to acquire an email signing/encryption certificate from a TTP such as Verisign*, and carry out email signing and encryption.
Banias TPM Enabling Initiatives
The TPM is a key element of Intel’s Safer Computing initiative. On September 10, 2002, at the Intel Developers Forum in San Jose, CA, Intel and VeriSign* announced their collaboration on enhancing the value and garnering industry
support of safer computing for PC clients, with an initial focus on next generation wireless notebook PCs. VeriSign* will optimize its digital certificates and “Personal Trust Agent (PTA)” on the future mobile computing platforms with TPM
support, based on Intel’s next generation mobile processor, code named Banias. The collaboration will enable PC OEMs to integrate VeriSign’s* PTA and digital certificates into Banias processor-based notebooks, enabling a platform ready for
corporate IT to deploy with VeriSign’s Public Key Infrastructure services to enable strong authentication, authorization, digital signatures, encryption and
more secure messaging.
Intel and VeriSign* will jointly promote security (especially security on wireless notebooks), TPM version 1.1 adoption, and VeriSign’s* Managed PKI services. By incorporating digital certificate functionality into TPM chips that support
Banias processor-based notebook PCs, a user’s digital certificates and attributes can be stored in hardware, making it much more difficult to compromise the certificates and attributes via traditional network or Internet connections. This also transforms any TPM-enabled Banias processor-based notebook PC into a “digital credential” that can then be used to perform many e-business functions in the corporate IT environment, such as single sign-on, more secure remote
access, and trusted peer-to-peer computing.
Even though wavx is after the enterprise space I thought this info on customer type found in the white paper was interesting.
Customer Types
As described in the previous sections, the TPM helps provide means to protect data and to provide platform identification in a trusted manner. Different types of users have different security and privacy needs. Below are two broad categories
of platform users.
Privacy conscious consumer
This type of user is extremely protective of his platform and doesn’t necessarily understand the exact benefits and limitations of a TPM based platform. This type of user would rather just not use the TPM. A variation of this category is a user that wants to control when & how the TPM in the platform is used. For example, this user may want to use the protected
storage capability of the TPM at all times, but not the capability to provide platform authentication. This type of user would need a way to disable the platform attestation capability when he has to.
Thoughts?????????? Doma... Dabears... Wildman... Kevin_s5 ???
Regards,
C2
eamonnshute
I just read that Verisign was working on Attestation. If a customer was to choose between a simple Verisign upgrade or a new system from Wave, which do you think they will choose?......CL
Rachelelise...I have heard so much about the "Trusted Computing Space" and how no one will let MSFT control it. IMO It's not a space to be controlled. TPM is a hardware feature that enterprise software & security companies like MSFT, Adobe and Verisign will use to incorporate new features into thier products and thus PC's. No one will own it, but everyone will use it if they choose. How Wave fits in is anyones guess. They were first out with a basic application that NSM chose to incorporate into Safekeeper. HP and IBM to date have chose not too. IMO unless they learn real quick I don't think they can survive as an application provider competing with existing established well healed application providers with established customer bases....JMHO CL
Has anyone ever thought that TCG is in place just to get the hardware in place for Palladium and other Enterprise Software companies to enhance security and that Waves contributions may be meaningless if all the features of Attestation (Via MSFT & Verisign) and premium services will just be part of MSFT's new server software packages? I've learned a lot about MSFT recently putting my little network together. I am using an older version of MSFT's server software because there is minimal license fees for client machines. MSFT will want compelling reasons for companies even as small as mine to upgrade server software. We have all seen MSFT server software commercials on TV recently. After all this DD and reading all these posts I have decided to buy each one of my kids a thousand shares of MSFT and vault it. If you think MSFT is ubiqious know, wait till you see them in your watch and car radio's/navigation screens. I just don't see Wave running away with anything. If premium service features are so good, they will be incorporated in Palladium. Steven states waves role is to make TCG compatible across different TPM's. The way I see it is that is the role of TCG. Besides no company has made more machines work together than MSFT. JMHO....CL
Zen88
I agree with you. What bothers me is we all know the finance shares are being sold. Why are wavoids buying when the financiars are selling? Once these finance partners have all there shares shorted and maybe a few more, they would be happy to do a 2 to 4 million dollar deal with Wave at a lower price because it will lower there basis on the first deal from 76 cents to maybe 50 cents are where ever the new deal is struck. (.25 cents on 7.5 million shares goes a long way) Hopefully Wave can avoid all this if SkS is being realistic and accurate.
The difference between myself and a wavoid is a wavoid believes it all happend, I'm waiting for it to happen. I would much rather buy when the 12.6 million shares are absorbed and Wave has some deployment.
As for lack of insider buying, I have seen nothing material in the last few months to keep anyone from buying. IMO Stevens explanation is hogwash and he should be held accountable for it if it is found not to be true. I will ask him that on the next CC........CL
OT: Knobias Quotes: Until I came to IH I was using quote.com which disintegrated with RB. At IH I found Knobias Quotes (in the upper right hand corner of the screen on the options line). It is awesome. Great level II, great quotes and charts. I recommend it for anyone interested......CL
eamonnshute.. Do you buys SkS's explanation for the lack of insider buys?? TIA....CL
awk
Please speak for your self. As a member of this community I think LHF will be a great contributor. Please keep the board civil. Telling someone to go away is not very nice....CL
LHF Glad to see you here...CL
2bstealthy...Did you notice this?
Jon B. Kutler is founder and chief executive officer of Quarterdeck Investment Partners LLC, an investment banking firm serving the global aerospace, defense, and federal information technology industries. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of the investment firm Jefferies Group Inc.
Is that erie or the wrong name?....CL
Snackman62
A few things really bother me about your notes from the dinner conversation with SkS.
Insider buying: I can not believe SkS explanation that insiders are NOT buying on advice of counsel. It make no sense. Insiders buy at IBM MSFT and many other fortune 500 companies before after and during material events. I would think some one should look into the validity of that statement.
Delisting: People have been emailing Wave for weeks about delisting. None of the delisting notice emails were answered. However the NASDAQ listing status was considered appropriate dinner time conversation with some investors. His statement that 10 days above a buck cures all may not be accurate. Wave must also maintain 5 million in shareholder equity or 750k sales a year. Unless sales pick up very soon, I am of the opinion a trip to the BB is all but guaranteed.
Boxes on the shelves in August: Was that specifically NSM safekeeper equiped boxes with Wave inside? Or was that TPM's in general? I do believe it is easy to confuse the two and would like to know if he was clear about that August deployment being wave or tpm's in general? TIA for your anticipated response.
Activation Rate: I certainly do not want to repeat myself so I will be very brief. 70% does not seem reasonable.
Strategic Partner Financing: Kind of puts some rumors to rest. SP's buy into public companies all the time. Waves float, share price, business plan and previous finance package may also be contributing the lack of interest.
Thanks again for sharing. Sorry about all the concerns. Sometimes the more I think about things, the more I get concerned. Must be that skeptical Bronx Italian thing......CL
bttb...
Thanks for the reply....CL
Sign On Line
The digital signature company wave bought from BK court for about 250k. The cool thing about SOL is they were at the Whitehouse with President Clinton at the signing ceremony that legalized digital signatures. Cool history, not sure about it's future...CL
Snackman62
Where does the 70% come from? Please, this is unsubstantiated hype. 70% is an unreasonable number. The fact that SkS said it does not lend it to be creadible. Did he share the NEC activation rate with you? That is important and could be used to support his numbers. 70%x8500=5950x30x4=714000 in revenue last quarter. Wave had 16k in revenue last Q. Please back up your claim..TIA CL
snackman62
Does that mean bullish comments on HP and TCG can't be mentioned more than three times? TIA.....CL
Snackman62
How does he get to 70%?..That number seems very high. In the begining of the year when wave was projecting 6 million in sales by 12/31/03, I worked the numbers backwards and got to 2.25%. Not for anything, but I thinks his numbers are not reasonable and probably way above what Norton or MCfee's subscription rates are. That projection would make me question everything else he said...CL
When you say change, do you mean if I turn Bullish I have a better chance of sticking around. I have not broken any rules, besides calling you by your First name and I'm not sure that's a violation. You never seemed to be upset about on the other boards and I will not do it again.
I am bearish on Wavx. I believe it is destined to go back to the BB and that the current price will not sustain the amount of shares that will be needed to be sold to support the enterprise. Steven is always very optimistic. He kind of reminds me of Tucker. I am glad he has projections and a plan, the problem is it is easy for him to convince you and barge, but his creadibilty may be in question from the real institutional investors. He did stand behind some numbers on a CC and made an analyst from an investment banking firm that got wave 122 million dollars look very foolish. The poor guy from Pacific Growth may have gotten burned as did all of us that may have listened to him.
Good luck with your investment, I believe with selling the assets wave will still have to go back to the Capital Markets. Wave belives it too or they would not be preparing the proxy to issue all those new shares.....CL
Snackman,
If HhH was eliminated IMO that was wrong. If you say you did not eliminate him I believe you.
Thank you for sharing your dinner conversation with SkS. Seems pretty awesome. A million PC's a month is anywhere from 500 grand and up without premium services. Did he mention wether the Premium Services are ready for sale and certified? TIA....CL
Cricket,
I'm no rocket scientist, but if Verisign has Attestation, they have everything else. Well heeled competitors with relationships IMO can prevent wave from getting any traction. The silence from wave is deafening. The fact the SHM keeps getting delayed is troubling to me. Well we will see. IMO it would be best to have the meeting after the q2 numbers come out on August 15th so the investors can have fairly recent financial information to draw questions from.........CL
NYC City Hall shot at..Not much more info. Hope everyone is all right....CL
Don't forget Doma...
Snackman62
I guess thats all you had to say. Don't get nasty. I am trying to keep this board civil. I asked if you changed the header. You said no. I did not like how you deleted HhH's posts, yet let all the other OT welcome to the board type messages stay. That type of deleting who you don't like and allowing who you like to stay is censorship.
I am so sorry I used your first name. It never seemed to bother you on the other boards. It will not happen again.
BTW it looks like they needed to take wave down a few percentage points to find some volume.....CL
Snackman/2bstealthy
Post #295 was deleted awfullly quick. I have no idea why it was as does most of the board because we did not have a chance to see it. This new board has ignore, and you can even ignore responses to your ignored person. You can even have your own posts ignored from people so they can't be read by them.
Our soldiers are dying every day to protect liberty and most of all free speech. I ask you to let us decide what should be ignored and what shouldn't. Some posters post good posts and bad posts. Discard the bad ones and they may not come back and we will never see the good ones.
Please let us decide. There is no need to be standing vigil and deleting posts in this environment. There are tons of OT posts written by friendly wavoids that rightfully still stand and should not be deleted. Jesse use to say the RB Board was like a portal, you could get news, weather, travel info. Lets try to get the old board back without losing people like HhH spin and Alea who won't come back to your controlled world. You are a Liberty Loving American, aren't you?.
LEVEL II Report
As for WAVX..An MM Named WDCO M WILSON-DAVIS & CO., INC out of Salt Lake City and Denver has capped wave all day at 85 cents. Seems to have all you want.....CL
mighthunter
I don't think the low volume is a positive thing. The market has a lot of overhead resistance via the GB & Finance shares. To add to that Wave will need more financing in 83 days and will be authorizing many more shares at the SHM. Everyone is anxious for the SHM, but that won't happen till all the SEC filings are wrapped up. Those filings should include the registration for the GB shares which IMO will put further pressure on the market. I don't think they can afford to sell them in the friendly fashion the PP shares are being sold. I remember when we where in the 40's anxiously awaiting the share registration that quickly eroded wavx below the previous PP floor price....CL
2bstealthy..
Here are some helpfull links to recent SEC filings....
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030630/wavx10-q_a.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030515/155653_1.html
24601
I believe Snackman when he took over this morning changed the Anchor post. I may be wrong. Snackman62, didn't you update the anchor this am? TIA.....CL