I would bet that the MMs needs shares to TRULY COVER and accumulate.

Dec. 19, 2008 is a huge event. Imagine the a/l shows a lot of assets in favor of WMI.

To anyone short, i.e., an Institution, Hedge Fund, etc., it could mean BANKRUPTCY for themselves if NOT covered since this is a HUGE event.

Notice how other times before the hearings, the MMs do not take down the PPS too much. Why? The other hearings were non-events unless there was a major surprise, which there weren't, just delays.

Look at the major drops all across Wamu stocks.

Watch NITE. He has been on BID everyday. As long as no other MMs are in the way, NITE is boxing the B/A.

If these MMs cannot get the shares or shake enough from the tree, MMs will soon fight amongst themselves and we may see a nice run.

IMO

Wow, over one (1) million traded!!!!

"In regards to WaMu Bank, the FDIC has reported that receivership assets are limited to a cash balance of $1.9 billion"

If the above is a quote, that means that Secured Creditors (approx. 6,7,8 or 9 B. worth) of WaMu Bank have to share, pro-rated, the 1.9 B through the receivership. Unsecured/Juniors and everyone else get Zero/Nada.

The Creditors of the Bank really got the shaft.

If there is a lawsuit against the FDIC, I would bet that these Creditors of the Bank would join in since it would be in there best interest.

Example of JP Morgan taking over Bear Sterns' Preferred shares and continuing to pay dividends. This can "possibly" happen to WMI, IF JPM does buyout WMI. Below is a PR by JPM announcing conversion to JPM Preferreds. The second PR is an example of what a Declaration of dividend looks like (for those who may not know). Without that Declaration, there will be NO dividend.
**************************************************************

JP Morgan & Bear Sterns Preferred.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS129852+15-Jul-2008+BW20080715

"JPMorgan Chase Announces Conversion of Bear Stearns Preferred Stock Into JPMorgan Chase Preferred Stock; New Trading Symbols and CUSIP Numbers

NEW YORK--(Business Wire)--


JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) announced today that it completed the
previously announced internal merger transaction, as a result of which each
share of The Bear Stearns Companies Inc.'s 6.15% Cumulative Preferred Stock,
Series E, 5.72% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series F and 5.49% Cumulative
Preferred Stock, Series G was automatically converted into a newly issued share
of JPMorgan Chase preferred stock having substantially identical terms to the
corresponding series of Bear Stearns preferred stock (respectively, JPMorgan
Chase's 6.15% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series E, 5.72% Cumulative Preferred
Stock, Series F and 5.49% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series G). The depositary
shares, each representing a one-fourth interest in a share of Bear Stearns
preferred stock, will continue to trade on the New York Stock Exchange, but will
instead represent a one-fourth interest in a share of JPMorgan Chase preferred
stock and will trade under the following new symbols and CUSIP numbers.

-0-
*T
JPMorgan Chase 6.15% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series E (JPMPRE:
46625H720)
JPMorgan Chase 5.72% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series F (JPMPRF:
46625H712)
JPMorgan Chase 5.49% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series G (JPMPRG:
46625H696)
*T"




*******************************************************************

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/category/industryarticle.aspx?feed=BW&Date=20081209&ID=9438520&industry=IND_BANKING&isub=

"JPMorgan Chase Declares Common Stock and Preferred Stock Dividend
December 9, 2008 4:20 PM ET
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JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM) Stock Quote, Chart, News, Add to Watchlist

Business WireAll Business Wire news

The Board of Directors of JPMorgan Chase & Co. JPM today declared a quarterly dividend of 38 cents per share on the outstanding shares of the corporation’s common stock. The dividend is payable on January 31, 2009, to stockholders of record at the close of business on January 6, 2009.

JPMorgan Chase & Co. also declared a dividend on the outstanding shares of each of the following preferred stock issues:

* 6.15% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series E - $3.075 per share (equivalent to $0.76875 per Depositary Share)
* 5.72% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series F - $2.86 per share (equivalent to $0.715 per Depositary Share)
* 5.49% Cumulative Preferred Stock, Series G - $2.745 per share (equivalent to $0.68625 per Depositary Share)

The dividends for the Preferred Stock Series E, F and G are payable on January 15, 2009, to stockholders of record at the close of business on December 31, 2008."


****************************************************
The above is strictly and example ONLY and should NOT be construed as any type of investment advice. This is just some research I did and sharing with everyone.

Cheers!

Original Prospectus:http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000095013407025552/v36537aexv4w1.htm

Supplement to Prospectus: http://www.secinfo.com/dsvrp.uxNg.htm


Prospectus Supplement to Prospectus Dated January 9, 2006
Registration Statement No. 333-130929

7.75% SERIES R NON-CUMULATIVE PERPETUAL CONVERTIBLE PREFERRED STOCK

"MODIFICATION OF THE INDENTURE

Each indenture provides that we and the trustee thereunder may, without the consent of any holders of debt securities, enter into supplemental indentures for the purposes, among other things, of adding to our covenants, adding any additional Events of Default, establishing the form or terms of debt securities or curing ambiguities or inconsistencies in such indenture or making other provisions; provided such action shall not adversely affect the interests of the holders of any series of debt securities in any material respect."

"EVENTS OF DEFAULT

An Event of Default in respect of any series of debt securities (unless it is either inapplicable to a particular series or has been modified or deleted with respect to any particular series) is defined in each indenture to be:


Ø failure to pay interest on such series of debt securities for 30 days after payment is due;

Ø failure to pay the principal of (or premium, if any) on such series of debt securities when due;

Ø failure to perform any other covenant in the indenture that applies to such series of debt securities for 90 days after we have received written notice of the failure to perform in the manner specified in the indenture;

Ø an event of default under any mortgage, indenture (including the indenture) or other instrument under which any debt of Washington Mutual, Inc. or any Principal Subsidiary Bank (defined below) shall be outstanding which default shall have resulted in the acceleration of such debt in excess of $75,000,000 in aggregate principal amount and such acceleration shall not have been rescinded or such debt discharged within a period of 30 days after notice;

Ø certain events of bankruptcy, insolvency or reorganization; and

Ø any other event of default provided for in such series of debt securities."

In the IBOX we have ONLY the original prospectus and NOT the SUPPLEMENT to the Original Prospectus.

We all have been relying on old information. In light of the Supplement, it look like really good news to me.

I thought I would share this so we all can be informed.

Maybe someone wants to read it further. Too much to read, it makes me sleepy... LOL

BTW: Before anyone asks, in BK, you are either INSOLVENT or REORGANIZED.

Actually I think the MMs feel there is enough assets because the last several days the PPS was going down yet the amount of buys exceeds the sells. That tells me MMs are accumulating in my opinion.

If MMs did not feel there were assets, MMs would have made it TANK rather a subtle "walkdown."

The market is just to scared to jump in without confirmation. If there was confirmation, the market would be chasing.

"Buy on weakness, sell on strength"

MMs have patience, the market does not.

My opinion. Cheers!

Says it is dated: "Wednesday December 10, 2008," but I do not know how accurate that date is.

"Are there any diehard folks still holding onto their shares?"

Are they even able to find a buyer?

Spoken like a TRUE trader! Don't take it as an offense, it is actually a compliment.

UPDATED: Short % Increased by 449.09 %

from 5,500 short to 30,200 short.

http://www.shortsqueeze.com/?symbol=wampq&submit=Short+Quote%99

This is interesting since WAMPQ has an extreme low float with approx. 93% of the float is owned by Institutions/Major holders. So with 30,200 short, that is, imo, pretty high short interest of the stock being in retail hands.

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/WAMPQ/tab/8

With the 4.4 B. hearing around the corner, Dec. 16, and the Dec. 19, 2008, I find it interesting the drop in PPS of WAMPQ and the increase of short interest.

This leads me to believe that the MMs are taking this down for the following reasons:

1. New short position needs to cover before the Dec. 14/19, which is next week.

2. MMs are not dumb and very savy and know what is going on with the schedule of the BK hearings and I would bet they are on these message boards as well. Anyhow, the MMs are slowly accumulating shares before the hearing to sell to the retail that will be buying. How do I know? Look at the history of some of these hearing dates... about a week or so we have a lower PPS. Within a week prior to any hearing, you notice accumulation on lvl IIs before the coming hearing. A couple days before said hearing, you will notice a slight rise in PPS leading to the hearing date. Depending on the hearing results, you will see a direction.

Bottomline: The smart ones are accumulating now in anticipation of the coming hearing.

A/L could propel this and other Wamu classes if there is a surprise.

There is more to my post, but I am work and kinda hard to juggle goofing of on the net and working. LOL

My opinion.

Hmm... Kicked out of his own home... Well, was bound the happen.
I assume the Bev Ball guys gets the shaft as well...

How is Twombly going to print shares without a shell ??? Oh, I see, Twombly is working for Hewlett Packard now.

Just kidding... LOL

Volume is 26 Million is interesting. Usually 10 million'ish?

Coincidence? Dec. 16, hearing on 4.4 B and Dec. 19 filing of a/l.

Speculators are taking their positions NOW. MMs rocking the boat to fill their troughs!

I doubt there will be a delay this time. Why? If my memory serves me right, in WMI's Order re: Dec. filing of a/l, WMI inserted the wording to the effect that WMI may ask for an extension.

This wording regarding WMI's possible extension beyond Dec. 19, was redlined and NOT in the SIGNED Order.

Based on the above, I do NOT think the Dec. filing will be extended.

As for the 4.4 B, I do not think that it will be extended because WMI wants that 4.4 B in the a/l filing.

On an other note, having this 4.4 B being a non-urgency NOW, when it was an EXTREME emergency when it was discovered a couples weeks after the filing of BK CH 11 by WMI, leads me to believe that JP Morgan and WMI are in talks. Hence the loss of urgency in that matter.

Why go through the hearing of the 4.4 B when JPM is going to buy WMi anyways?

Bottomline: JPM in talks with WMI. The question is the PRICE. By out anytime from now until Monday 22, 2008 by JPM OR buyout from competitor/competing bid anytime from Dec. 16 through Dec. 22, 2008.

All of the above is speculation.

You need to have Lvl II to see what the MMs are doing.

Basically, NITE needs shares.

When all MMs are stacked at the same price, NITE will come out in front of other MMs to obtain shares that are being sold by retail.

Keep an eye on NITE. He has been on BID since Thursday (that I have been noticing).

He is usually alone on BID. When there are BIDs stacked up at the same price, NITE will come out of the pack and be alone on BID and box it in.

NITE on ALL classes of Wamu.

JPMorgan Chase to change look of WaMu branches
Free-standing 'teller towers' will be gone

By BILL VIRGIN
P-I REPORTER

Along with the name and yellow-and-blue logo, something else is going away when JPMorgan Chase converts former WaMu branches to its own brand next year: The Occasio design.

Occasio was the name WaMu gave for the branches that looked more like retail establishments, such as Starbucks coffee stores, than the traditional bank lobby.

But WaMu went well beyond just putting a children's play area and some comfortable chairs in the lobby. It did away with the traditional teller counter and windows. Customers were greeted by a concierge who would direct them to tellers stationed at free-standing "teller towers" that resembled tall bar tables and contained cash-dispensing stations. Other tellers were equipped with hand-held computers to process customer transactions. WaMu even patented the features of the design.

WaMu rolled out Occasio (which it said was Latin for "favorable opportunity") with great fanfare in 2000, and used the branch design as it moved into new markets such as Las Vegas and Atlanta. Later it remodeled existing branches to incorporate Occasio features.

Now JPMorgan Chase plans to ditch Occasio.

"So that all customers have a consistent experience when visiting Chase branches around the country, WaMu Occasio branches will convert to a traditional branch layout prior to their scheduled conversion date," said a JPMorgan Chase memo to employees in November. "The change will not require the branch to close and will take place on weekends and at night to minimize disruption for employees and customers."

One reason for the change: Chase's more traditional layout offers "more privacy for bankers to meet with customers" than Occasio's more open floor plan, the memo said.

JPMorgan Chase spokesman Tom Kelly said the bank plans to offer more small business, mortgage and private-banking services as it converts branches from WaMu. "Occasio is less convenient for customers to do all those things," he said. Chase's design provides privacy for those transactions, while also giving customers a sense of security about their money and making them feel comfortable.

Paul Seibert, principal and vice president of financial services with the Seattle-based design firm EHS, said WaMu changed more than the physical appearance of a bank branch with Occasio. "It brought staff from behind the counter into the lobby," he said. "It allowed contact."

Tellers became more than handlers of cash and routine transactions; by working more closely with customers, they were also able to recommend and sell other bank products and services. Occasio "changed the business model and the culture of these organizations," making the branches and their employees more flexible and allowing banks to deploy smaller locations, Seibert said.

But Occasio-like approaches didn't work at every location, and it had some drawbacks, Seibert added. "It doesn't work when the lobby fills up," and there were glitches when one of the tellers escorted a customer to another employee to handle more complex business, such as a loan application, leaving the teller post without someone to handle customers who were waiting.

Occasio and similar designs also figured in discussions about bank security. The design generated some criticism that putting tellers and cash-dispensing machines out in the open presented a security risk. But Seibert said the use of greeters or concierges allowed the implementation of SafeCatch, a bank robbery-thwarting strategy developed by an FBI agent in Seattle in which bank employees offering assistance to people as soon as they enter the bank often disrupt a would-be robber's plans without a confrontation.

The Occasio model has evolved, Seibert said. A few years ago, his firm completed a design for a credit union in Vancouver, B.C., that employs teller "pods," a cross between the traditional counter of windows and Occasio's teller towers, which look more like a hotel check-in desk.

What Occasio did, though, was break down not just the physical wall between customer and teller, but also a psychological wall within the industry that "this is the only way we can do it," Seibert said.

JPMorgan Chase plans to begin converting WaMu branches to the Chase brand in Washington in late May. None of WaMu's branches in Washington will be closed, although JPMorgan Chase plans to close about 400 branches in markets where both companies operated locations.

Kelly said JPMorgan Chase also plans to add 150 branches a year.
P-I reporter Bill Virgin can be reached at 206-448-8319 or billvirgin@seattlepi.com.

JPMorgan Chase to change look of WaMu branches
Free-standing 'teller towers' will be gone

By BILL VIRGIN
P-I REPORTER

Along with the name and yellow-and-blue logo, something else is going away when JPMorgan Chase converts former WaMu branches to its own brand next year: The Occasio design.

Occasio was the name WaMu gave for the branches that looked more like retail establishments, such as Starbucks coffee stores, than the traditional bank lobby.

But WaMu went well beyond just putting a children's play area and some comfortable chairs in the lobby. It did away with the traditional teller counter and windows. Customers were greeted by a concierge who would direct them to tellers stationed at free-standing "teller towers" that resembled tall bar tables and contained cash-dispensing stations. Other tellers were equipped with hand-held computers to process customer transactions. WaMu even patented the features of the design.

WaMu rolled out Occasio (which it said was Latin for "favorable opportunity") with great fanfare in 2000, and used the branch design as it moved into new markets such as Las Vegas and Atlanta. Later it remodeled existing branches to incorporate Occasio features.

Now JPMorgan Chase plans to ditch Occasio.

"So that all customers have a consistent experience when visiting Chase branches around the country, WaMu Occasio branches will convert to a traditional branch layout prior to their scheduled conversion date," said a JPMorgan Chase memo to employees in November. "The change will not require the branch to close and will take place on weekends and at night to minimize disruption for employees and customers."

One reason for the change: Chase's more traditional layout offers "more privacy for bankers to meet with customers" than Occasio's more open floor plan, the memo said.

JPMorgan Chase spokesman Tom Kelly said the bank plans to offer more small business, mortgage and private-banking services as it converts branches from WaMu. "Occasio is less convenient for customers to do all those things," he said. Chase's design provides privacy for those transactions, while also giving customers a sense of security about their money and making them feel comfortable.

Paul Seibert, principal and vice president of financial services with the Seattle-based design firm EHS, said WaMu changed more than the physical appearance of a bank branch with Occasio. "It brought staff from behind the counter into the lobby," he said. "It allowed contact."

Tellers became more than handlers of cash and routine transactions; by working more closely with customers, they were also able to recommend and sell other bank products and services. Occasio "changed the business model and the culture of these organizations," making the branches and their employees more flexible and allowing banks to deploy smaller locations, Seibert said.

But Occasio-like approaches didn't work at every location, and it had some drawbacks, Seibert added. "It doesn't work when the lobby fills up," and there were glitches when one of the tellers escorted a customer to another employee to handle more complex business, such as a loan application, leaving the teller post without someone to handle customers who were waiting.

Occasio and similar designs also figured in discussions about bank security. The design generated some criticism that putting tellers and cash-dispensing machines out in the open presented a security risk. But Seibert said the use of greeters or concierges allowed the implementation of SafeCatch, a bank robbery-thwarting strategy developed by an FBI agent in Seattle in which bank employees offering assistance to people as soon as they enter the bank often disrupt a would-be robber's plans without a confrontation.

The Occasio model has evolved, Seibert said. A few years ago, his firm completed a design for a credit union in Vancouver, B.C., that employs teller "pods," a cross between the traditional counter of windows and Occasio's teller towers, which look more like a hotel check-in desk.

What Occasio did, though, was break down not just the physical wall between customer and teller, but also a psychological wall within the industry that "this is the only way we can do it," Seibert said.

JPMorgan Chase plans to begin converting WaMu branches to the Chase brand in Washington in late May. None of WaMu's branches in Washington will be closed, although JPMorgan Chase plans to close about 400 branches in markets where both companies operated locations.

Kelly said JPMorgan Chase also plans to add 150 branches a year.
P-I reporter Bill Virgin can be reached at 206-448-8319 or billvirgin@seattlepi.com.

Agreed, there will be no more extensions on the a/l filing, which leads me to believe that the hearing on the 4.4 B will be heard and signed since Dec. 19, the date of the a/l filing is abut three days from that date.

So if Wamu Holding wants the 4.4 b to be in the a/l on Dec. 19, no more delays on the 4.4 B.

If watched Lvl II today, you will notice that NITE has been on the Bid often on not only WAMUQ, but WAMPQ and WAMKQ. On WAMPQ, NITE had the Bid and Ask boxed wide and then eventual got tight considering the liquidity issue.

I also noticed that ARCA was LARGE on BID. Wonder who they are buying for. Could be covering, could someone just wanted to be in during the weekend, but why? Well, they don't call it "Merger Monday" for no reason. Kidding...

WAMUQ was quite active today considering volume was not huge.

Well, when you consider WFC has Wachovia and JPM has Bear Sterns to use tax credits to shelter their (WFC & JPM) income for 2008 already, it would probably not be a priority to get this done in 2008 since we are at the end of the year and holidays makes it even sorter, i.e. people taking vactions, stuff unavailable for their attorneys, etc.

Also, WM Holding probably has enough (non-disputable) tax credits to file for 2008.

Just an opinion.

Jackson,

I actually have not researched this enough.
Updated:
Seems like perferreds were/will be diluted through this conversion. The question is if the liabilities at the WMI level have been reduced prorated to accommodate this dilution or did WMI adopt this debt/conversion to perferreds from the WM Bank or Bank sub level. I am hoping for a zero sum between debt and liability of course, if it is not then in a buyout situation, the buyer would pay less for the commons because buyer has to assume the newly created liability in the form of preffered doubling.

There are a couple of other scanarios, but it is late. So I probably will not get into it tonight.


So I really do not know until I do more research, but I am still rooting and support Wamu and will not bash it to get a cheaper price.

For the record, I have sold off about 90% of all my holdings in all of the Wamu stock family the last couple days. Holding mostly cash right now. I could have made a mistake, but time will tell. I will let the chips fall where they may.

I will look for a new re-entry point before the 4.4 B court hearing and the Dec 19, a/l filing. Might flip a little until I do a little more research.

Cheers and good luck.

"Ford Equity Research upgrades WASH MUTUAL INC from MOST UNFAVORABLE to UNFAVORABLE.
Investars Analyst Actions - private
12/04/2008 11:44 AM"

Cool! From Really crappy to just crappy!!!!

Damn... I am going all in tomorrow!!!!! LOL

Bad News? Have a look.

Preferred series I,J,K,L,M,N,R 38 minutes ago
I stayed up late figuring this all out so I am not sure if it is accurate, but here is what I determined:
The first problem is that WMI Inc is actually worth negative $500MM. WMI Investments is worth $1B. That is included in the $1.9B "WMI subsidiaries" in the WMI Inc assets. So it was actually counted twice in people's calculations. So the bottom line number "shareholder equity" is negative $500MM. But to be fair, after the various tax write offs, WMI may not have to pay the $500MM they owe to the IRS, and beyond that carry back losses to previous years and perhaps get another $3B in refunds. But as they sit now, they are short $500MM.
So here is the BIG problem:

The series I,J,L,M,N were preferred stock in WMPF-LLC, which was a subsidiary of WMB. But if the "conditional exchange event" was triggered by OTS action (which it was) this stock becomes WMI preferred stock (series I,J,L,M,N). This is a net-zero transaction, where WMI gains $3.9B worth (nominal value) of preferred stock but has to issue $3.9B of new stock. So now instead of the $3.5B in preferred stock there was, there is $7.5B (nominal value) of preferred stock. These are all on par with series R and series K. This means that whatever scraps are left over, they are divided equally. So that would be shared ratiometrically between all the preferreds, and there is more than twice as many as we thought. This makes the potential recovery even more marginal.
The other key thing is that these are not subtracted from the “subordinated debt” like people thought. So liabilities do not decrease as thought and shareholder equity is not increased and furthermore the number of shares to be paid out of recovery doubled.

Relevant links:
From the recent operating report:
"Note 2: Investment in Subsidiaries
Investment in subsidiaries represents the book value of its subsidiaries, including the co-debtor, WMI Investment Corp."
“.......equity of approximately $3.9 billion upon issuance of the new classes of preferred stock of WMI that were reserved for issuance upon the occurrence of the Conditional Exchange, as well as a corresponding loss of approximately $3.9 billion upon conversion of the Securities."

From the last 10Q p78-79
"In 2006 and 2007, the Company issued a total of $3.9 billion of perpetual, non-cumulative preferred securities through its indirect subsidiary, WMPF LLC.""Preferred securities issued by WMPF LLC (an indirect subsidiary of Washington Mutual Bank ("WMB")) qualify as part of WMB's Tier 1 capital"

From the series R prospectus: page S-18
"Payments to investors in respect of the Preferred and Trust Securities are funded by distributions on certain series of securities issued by Washington Mutual Preferred Funding LLC, one of our indirect subsidiaries, with similar terms to the relevant series of Preferred and Trust Securities, which we refer to as the "LLC Preferred Securities"

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=te&bn=86316&tid=38962&mid=38962&tof=1&frt=2#38962

Read the complete thread. I did not have time to go through it since i am at work goofing off.

One Word: S * C * A * M

FDIC seized Washington Mutual Bank. JPM bought almost all the assets of Washington Mutual Bank. One of the assets was the stock of Washington Mutual fsb.

Some people do not realize that these are two (2) difference banks.

That is why you see JPM bought stock.

Also, by only purchasing the assets of a corporation, you are able sever the debts that are unsecured, i.e. the noteholders/bond holders, etc. BTW, this is ony at the bank level. The only way WMI would be on the hook is if there was a cross guarantee.

Hope this helps.

It is on Pacer.

Assets Liab schedule is delayed until 19 Dec.

On Pacer. Will show up on http://www.kccllc.net/wamu soon.

WAMKQ dividend has been suspended. Link:

http://www.quantumonline.com/

Type in WAMKQ in the top left corner.

Liu,

Thanks for your response. I completely agree with you.

My post was a direct response to Topdawg's post.

Cheers.

JMP only wanted the deposits of WaMu Bank and branches that JMP did not have a foot hold in. JMP just closed down branches where they overlapped each other.

Other services were shifted to JMP's service providers since they had nothing to do and was able to take on the additional WaMu work load.

I don't really think they downsized, just stole all the goods for 1.9 B, and shifted through all the junk and hand picked the best parts. The junk was just discarded, i.e. the liability of the employees salary, health care, etc.

IMO

Contractor,

Thanks for the post.

Only thing is that it is hard to compare. Generally, all preferred stock has their own prospectus that gives an overview of what are your remedies upon liquidation, winding down, dissolution, etc.

Whether the preferred stock is cumulative, non-cumluative, prepertual, series, rank for priority, redeemable, convertaible, etc.

An other thing, it also depends on how much the corp has on hand, weather in Bk or not bk, etc.

In Bk, it is the Court's duty to make everyone "WHOLE." See the link below.

In our case, how much money will be left over for equity holders under liquidation scenario? See link below:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=te&bn=86316&tid=37250&mid=37250&tof=3&frt=2#37250

There are tons of scenarios AND variables for emergence from BK, merger, etc.

You are best to be diversified. Big board stocks and all across the board. If you are young, you are able to take on more risk for the higher reward.

Just my opinion of course.

My friend, my bet was that no dividend will be paid on WAMKQ for Dec. 15, 2008 (Liquidation did not count), not if it was declared.

Anyhow, I still say that a dividend has not been declared and E-trade is not considered a declaration. The declaration has to be from the Board of Directors.

Bottomline:

You say there will be a payment of a dividend on Dec. 15, 2008.

I say there will not be a dividend on December 15, 2008.

We are probably gonna go around in circles, so we should just leave it at that.

We will both wait until Dec. 15, 2008.

So if you do not want to put your money where your mouth is, we can just make a gentleman's bet. Up to you.

My opinion of course.

Cheers.

I do not believe NOL is part of the 32 bil listed as assets in the petition since, if I remember correctly, WM Holding filed BK 11 on the day of the 700 bailout approval and the day of the tax law change. I do not believe there was any tax accountant or someone qualified at the time to research the NOLs while hastily filing the Bk petition the same day as the tax law change.

I could be wrong.

My opinion.

I do have ETrade as one of my brokers and have seen the income estimator. If you look at your etrade 'statement,' it will show my WAMPQ shows an 'estimated' dividend income as well, but we all know that no dividend is coming.

Merger/buyout:

1. Even though conversion is not set forth in the prospectus of WAMKQ, the paying field is changed. It can be converted into common of buyer's stock, if authorized.

2. WAMKQ can be freely traded w/ or w/o dividend.

3. Liquidation through a buyout, I would say highly unlikely since CASH/MONEY is so scarce in our environment. Corps are trying to raise money right now.

4. Can be other scenarios?

Liquidation through CH 7 or 11 AND Emergence from Ch 11 is another story.

I personally would not wait for 1 1/2 or 3 years for an outcome for WAMKQ. There are other preferred stock that are currently not in BK and paying dividends.

I am personally hoping for merger/buyout or liquidation.

My opinion of course.

Dragon: I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I will bet you $100 that there will be no dividend for Dec 15, 2008 (payment dividend through liquidation does not count) for WAMKQ. That is how confident I am. If you are serious, I will forward you my paypal account.

Cheers.

This what you should do:

Say you have an existing position of 100,000 shares and want to take advantage of the $3,000 max loss per year 2008.

Figure out how many shares equate to 3,000 dollars. One you have calculated that amount of shares, BUY that exact amount of shares in the open market.

Now sell the exact amount you just bought.

You have just got around the wash rule. Since the sale was allocated from the buy from pre seizure shares. You just keep the new shares bought.

Hope that made sense.

So, in order to get $25 (the cap of WAMKQ) plus any interest that has been DECLARED, I would have to wait for 6 missed payments to be missed, which equates to 1 1/2 years to have any recourse UNLESS WM Holding goes to LIQUIDATION or Sept. 15, 2011, which is about three (3) years from now, for redemption?

I am glad the WHOLE story is finally coming out.

Someone else, not saying you?, has been spouting out differently and that WAMKQ is $25 no matter what.

Thank you for posting other than just ONE SCENARIO.

You should put that in the IBOX for WAMKQ so everyone is FULLY informed rather than having one scenario shoved down everyone's throat.

BTW: I still see no evidence dividends has been declared for WAMKQ. E-Trade does not count. They, as well as other, brokers have been wrong before/not updated.

WAMKQ is only a trading venue, not hold.

My opinion of course.

"I would gladly pay .25 and wait 2 years to get $25
if divis stop being paid on WAMKQ"

It is actually almost three (3) until September 11, 2011.

PLEASE post where the dividend was DECLARED. No declaration means no payment of dividend whether in BK or not in BK.

WAMKQ max is $25 (w/ or w/o interest).
WAMPQ max is $1,000 (w/ or w/o interest).

No interest = no one would hold dead money.

WAMKQ like, WAMPQ, has worth if there is a dividend or is liquidated.

WAMPQ: Way too many scenarios. Some include Conversion into the buyer's stock at the value of $1,000 (Example JMP, WFC, Etc.), liquidated at face value of $1,000, freely traded (w/ or w/o dividend), conversion into WAMUQ common, etc.

One thing to know is, under BK Ch 11, it is the Court's duty to make everyone WHOLE.

WAMPQ = $1,000
WAMKQ = $25

A post by Bopfan:

"I agree. There is more than enough to cover preferreds and yet R and K are priced well below liquidation value. Moreover, R and K are in parity, so why is R (by price) considered 4x more risky than K?

Also, given that R is priced at 6/10ths of 1% of $1,000, if the commons were afforded the same recovery probability, it would mean they would receive about $7.50 per share given the current price of $.045.

However, in keeping with the declining recovery percentages (i.e., debt at .6, K at .03, and R at .007), the commons would receive MORE THAN $7.50 per share because its recovery odds would have to be smaller than R at .007.

As I said before, the current prices don't make sense, and very savvy hedge fund investors are buying expecting to get rich(er). I'm going to be a minnow."

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=36285&mid=36311&tof=1&rt=2&frt=1&off=1

Your Post:

"To answer your question, if the PREFERREDS continue to trade as is and they fail to make 6 DIVIDEND PAYMENTS,

then WAMKQ HOLDERS will receive $25/share + missed divi pmts

WAMPQ HOLDERS will receive missed divi pmts + ???(likely conversion to common)



I REALLY WOULD LOVE TO HEAR SOME ARGUMENTS AGAINST MY POSITIONS ON THESE AND OTHER SCENARIOS.


WAMKQ = CASH COMPRISED OF DIVIDENDS AND LIQUIDATION VALUE"
******************************************************************

The problem is waiting 6 missed payments. 6 payments equals 1 1/2 years of waiting. Are you going to wait that long without a dividend?

The most you can get from WAMKQ is $25 plus interest ONLY if redeemed after September 15, 2011 or under liquidation. Anytime before September 11, 2011, WAMKQ will NOT get any dividend unless declared by the Board and NOT redeemable. Therefore, the WAMKQ is only worth what it is freely traded at. I have not seen any Declaration. If you have seen the Declaration of the Dividend, please kindly post it.

If there is no redemption or liquidation, WAMKQ is the same as WAMPQ. They are both non-cumulative, therefore there is no interest accumulation, payments of dividends can be skipped without recourse, etc.

http://investors.wamu.com/interactive/lookandfeel/102028/V23402_WAMU_424b5_Clean_.pdf

BTW: We are in Ch 11 BK. That means NO DIVIDEND will be paid out. BK Ch 11 is to protect Creditors of the Estate. How can dividends be paid out to an EQUITY HOLDER when CREDITORS are in FRONT of EQUITY HOLDERS. If WAMKQ is paid dividends, then Bond Holders, Trust Preferred and other Preferred stock are suppose to get paid. This would be the opposite of what the BK Court and the laws stand for.

Please feel free to add your comments.

The above is only an opinion.

"Liquidation Rights***************** Upon our voluntary or involuntary liquidation, dissolution or winding-up, holders of Series K Preferred Stock will be entitled to receive out of our assets that are legally available for distribution to stockholders, before any distribution is made to holders of common stock or other junior securities, a liquidating distribution in the amount of $1,000,000 per share of Series K Preferred Stock plus any declared and unpaid dividends, without accumulation of any undeclared dividends.


Distributions will be made pro rata as to the Series K
Preferred Stock and any other parity securities and only to the
extent of our assets, if any, that are available after satisfaction
of all liabilities to creditors."

A couple questions:

1. Can you point us to where the dividend has been declared?

2. If you do not have a link, can you please inform us as to why you think WAMKQ will be paid a dividend and not the Bond Holders or the Trust Preferred Stock in front of this Preferred stock?

3. In the event WAMKQ DOES get paid a dividend, it only goes to the Series K preferred stock. If you hold a Series K preferred stock, then you hold a face value of 1,000,000 per share. If you hold the share of $25, then you actually hold the depository receipt of a Series K Preferred stock, ie. 1/40,000th of a share of one Series K Preferred stock and only known as a book entry (under the street name or yours). While Series K MAY (I do not believe so) receive a dividend, the Trustee SHOULD distribute a pro rata share of the dividend to the depository receipts, which means you or I. The problem is, I do not see any dividend coming since we are under Bankruptcy Ch 11, which stops the dividend from being paid out.

Bankruptcy is to protect the Creditors of the estate. Paying a preferred holder before Creditors doing the exact opposite since the preferred share is an equity holder and does not deserve to be paid before a creditor.

Does anyone have any information that shows why Series K WILL GET PAID A DIVIDEND especially before any other Creditor or Trust Preferred who are in front of any preferred shares?

Please let me know, I would be all over this.

BTW: Series K is also non-cumulative, just like Series R and on the same parity.

Post by an Attorney/Former Attorney Regarding your Question:

"I agree. There is more than enough to cover preferreds and yet R and K are priced well below liquidation value. Moreover, R and K are in parity, so why is R (by price) considered 4x more risky than K?

Also, given that R is priced at 6/10ths of 1% of $1,000, if the commons were afforded the same recovery probability, it would mean they would receive about $7.50 per share given the current price of $.045.

However, in keeping with the declining recovery percentages (i.e., debt at .6, K at .03, and R at .007), the commons would receive MORE THAN $7.50 per share because its recovery odds would have to be smaller than R at .007.

As I said before, the current prices don't make sense, and very savvy hedge fund investors are buying expecting to get rich(er). I'm going to be a minnow."

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=36285&mid=36311&tof=1&rt=2&frt=1&off=1

Equity Committee Request/Formation:

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=35735&mid=36291&tof=6&rt=2&frt=1&off=1

I looked at it briefly. What are you trying to communicate?

I see it is the 200K club for WAMUQ. Is that what you are telling me?

I see a post or two about preferreds within the post. Thanks.