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amertirade shows bid at .055, ask at .18. And with zero volume at almost 1 pm.
Usually such crazy bid-spread asks on low/no volume indicate a dead-in-the-water stock (which is guess is stating the obvious given the volume). MM's don't want to have anything to do with a stock so difficult to unload, hence the ludicrously high ask.
Agree it's unfortunate that HVYW is silent for so long.
Is that the kind of discussion board you want? "I'd keep my mouth shut?" If you want nonstop cheerleading, you can read press releases. How is anyone supposed to get an informed opinion of a stock if only happy-talk is allowed?
Incredible.
rrm, take that act back to rb. The quality of the discussion there is so low, it can't hurt anything.
Attempted intimidation via threats of legal action because people post negative things about PLNI.... get a grip.
If the acquisition has been "finalized," why hasn't the company issued a PR without an "awaiting SEC approval" caveat?
rrm, what's wrong? I cut-and-pasted from the document. If something's wrong, please notify the appropriate bankruptcy attorneys.
It's not old news. It's, um, new news, being court documents filed apparently in preparation for a March 31 bankruptcy hearing to settle all of that once and for all.
For Jimstoploss: this statement from the creditor summary touches on some of what we were discussing yesterday:
"7.1 The Plan will be effectuated by funds provided to Debtor from his salary, commissions, and bonuses and, as to some creditors, by the transfer of free trade stock in Wicklund Holding Company, now known as Plasticon International, Inc. to those creditors having claims against Debtor due to his guaranty or co-signing on indebtedness owed by Wicklund Holding Company."
I gather the total they're talking about is just over $1 million. Having read some of this on another board, I gather it's unclear whether that sum has already been transferred to the creditors and/or sold into the market.
Who said anything about someone else claiming ownership?
It's very simple: PLNI says they're awaiting SEC approval. Until we're informed otherwise, and in a way that can be independently verified, there is simply no reason to assume the deals have been closed.
So what? PLNI said the acquisitions are awaiting SEC approval. No one can find any documents pending SEC approval. Until they do, the companies have not been acquired. The alternative is that PLNI is so incompetent it cannot bring itself to announce the first substantial, verifiable good news in maybe a year. Hopefully management is not that inept, but I suppose it's possible.
Update: I suppose there is another alternative: The acquisitions (remember Promold?) did not require SEC approval, and PLNI misled the public about *that.* The point is that none of these scenarios inspire confidence.
Very interesting post, thanks for taking the time. For my part let me make it clear I do not believe Turek has done anything illegal. Outrageous, yes; illegal no.
To some degree there is a corporate veil, to the extent that certain actions cannot be forced on it and vice-versa, I believe. For example, if PLNI went bankrupt, the corporation could be liquidated but the personal assets even of a majority stockholder would be sheltered. Same with a lawsuit against the corporation. However--I think I have this right, and will stand open to correction--an individual in Jim Turek's position, settling bankruptcy court claims, could choose to use whatever assets are at his disposal to settle them. I can't think of any reason why Turek would not be ALLOWED to create shares out of the remaining authorized ceiling to settle claims against him personally rather than having them hang over his head for a long time. I think that is one possible scenario under which Turek's personal situation affects PLNI and its shareholders. Basically he can market more shares whenever he feels like it, and under the current structure is under no obligation to ask anyone else's permission--provided he is still the majority stockholder.
And furthermore, if he is still in majority control, he still has the power to increase the level of authorized shares as well--for whatever reason amuses him. Buy a company, settle some personal claim, paper the wall.
I believe that's accurate.
I wouldn't call the latest decline a crash. It's been trading in a range, and (btw, since I bought in at .40) over the last few days has consistently been very slightly weaker. Yes, I like green better than red. Yes, if it declines a percent or two every day for a month, then you will have a crash. But at this point we're not "crashing."
OT: Hey Chartist, if that's your goodbye, it's a shame. I've been reading your posts for two months now and they are head-and-shoulders above most public board commentary. Thanks for your contributions and educational efforts, and I hope you'll reconsider.
One other note on what the new dilution number might be, if indeed more dilution has happened.
The numbers we're relying on are those reported at pinksheets. My understanding is that these numbers are provided by PLNI itself to pinksheets. In other words, there is no way for pinksheets.com to verify them--they basically have to take Jim Turek or whoever at their word. I remember some people speculated that even the 3.7 billion posted at pinksheets was too low. IF that is true, we could in theory end up with another 1 billion reported shares, catching up to reality, when, in fact, that much will have not been added in just a month.
Just a theory--just one possibility.
"The PPS is holding "fairly" steady so logic tells me that there is no OS manipulation effecting the PPS "yet" whether through public bashing or insiders. It looks like the general public thinks this stock is worth mid to high 5's without the financials. This was not the case during the previous dilution period when the PPS "dynamically" dropped from over .01 to .0036 during the AS moving to 5 bill and the OS moving to 3.7 bil via dilution."
Those are really two different events separated by time. The 5 billion a/s filing, which took place IIRC in October, became generally known when someone looked into the Wyoming state filing in November. The 3.7 billion outstanding--a rise from the previously stated 2.3 billion? IIRC--took place more recently. THAT was the information that briefly collapsed the price down to the high .003's, along with confirmation that the float had exploded from 690 million to 2.3 billion.
I don't have the kind of charts you suggest, but they would be useful. Looking at my crude Ameritrade charts, and speaking very broadly, it looks like the pps declined the first couple of days in January, then went sideways, then steadily rose till maybe the last week or so, when it last exceeded .01. This was during a period when massive dilution had taken place--but it was also soon after the Dec. 30 pr promising many rosy things, some positive noises from IR, and no doubt new investor blood. It then fell for the last four days of January. I think by this time some people had noticed the worm's prediction of the dilution number, but who knows if that's why. PLNI had also not yet delivered on audit and buyback news, and some stocholders didn't want to be crushed at the exits.
Pinksheet.com's dilution numbers (the latest updated share structure) are dated Jan. 31, and soon after we had that dip to the high .003's.
Going back further, the price fell in early November, then rose substantially mid-month to around .01 (or just under), then fell steadily. Although this was also during a period of presumed dilution, it wasn't yet factually known; instead, again IIRC, it was in mid-November that the 5 billion a/s filing became public knowledge. Soon after, mid-November's decline began.
So this is just a very long way of saying that with a pinksheet stock, while the shares out there obviously play a role, it's the bits and pieces of rumor and hope and fear and news that play at least as large a role. If the sheer physical fact of dilution were the sole driving force, the price shouldn't have risen through mid-November and again during mid-to-late January. Afterwards the price didn't fall simply because of the dilution, but because many investors learned of the dilution courtesy of pinksheets. And furthermore, because PLNI did not deliver on its Dec. 30 PR promise for news about the audit and a share buyback.
Certainly rrm's argument that there is not another 1 billion-share dilution in just the last month, given the price suppport, is a reasonable one, taken in isolation. But pinksheet stocks cannot be analyzed rationally because most of what needs to be known is not available for analysis.
When that 5 billion a/s became known in mid-November, I don't recall an immediate price collapse, partly because PLNI folks like Bill Howe reported to at least one or two posters that the outstanding and float had not changed "one iota." This proved to be false, eventually, but many chose to believe it at the time, so the price held for awhile.
My own belief that there has been substantial additional dilution is based partly on, perhaps an excess of caution; the past record of PLNI; and the continued silence of management on a variety of crucial issues. My opinion is that PLNI has dealt so casually with the truth in the past that if they could even come close to saying something positive right now, they would. Maybe they will, soon. If I miss a move based on undue skepticism, that's fine; I just don't have anything solid to rely on other than hope. It would be worth a bet by pinksheet standards if I trusted management, but because of the track record, I do not.
Well, I imagine that if any true insider info is involved, that would be illegal and people would be open to legal harm. The only strange thing on that account that comes to mind is well known by longtime posters--the earlier prediction of the worm about the outstanding being somewhere around--what did he predict--more than 3.5 billion? Or maybe he said 3.7, which is what it turned out to be; I don't recall exactly. I agree it's strange and a bit inexplicable that he called that one with such accuracy. I honestly don't know if it's possible to make a reasonable inference to that degree of accuracy simply by looking at the public share records.
But there was another bunch of posters, me included, who were saying for months that dilution was underway, based on the behavior of WDCO and VFIN, the volume, and the pps. We were derided as idiots and bashers for saying so. The dilution turned out to be true--and then we were accused of getting inside information. In fact, it turned out to be true twice, and we were called idiots twice, right up until the day the truth was revealed. Some people, whose names I won't mention in the hope that they have learned their lesson, were very careless in confusing the second group with the first--if indeed there was anyone in addition to the worm who was calling that number. (shorts? I forget.) And that carelessness and truly reckless disregard of the truth is what ticked me off, my friend.
More than anything else, however, I recall long diatribes by numerous optimists, including rrm as noted in this thread today, explaining in great detail why dilution was not under way. And as I said before, they were not entirely unreasonable explanations. But they proved to be wrong. Well, people are fallible, so be it; but then they made the same mistake all over again with the more recent dilution. And that is why I am truly amazed that the optimists are saying once again, with a confidence identical to that of their two earlier blunders, that it's impossible that substantial dilution has taken place.
From where I sit, from the evidence available to people who are not named Jim Turek, Semco has not yet been acquired because the last official PRs on the matter say it is awaiting SEC approval. It is, of course, possible that it has been acquired, but a rational person would ask why such wonderful news would be withheld. Since that would be very good news, the safest, most conservative assumption--which is the kind I prefer to operate under--is that this has not yet taken place.
FYI I have tried to use the words "optimists" and "pessimists" to describe pro and con PLNI posters. I think I was using those words even when I held PLNI stock, and if I ever buy it again, will continue do do.
Whether or not someone holds stock at any given moment isn't much of a reliable guide to anything, IMO. For example, positive statements about PLNI made by people holding stock are no less, and no more, suspect than statements made by non-stock holders. The only thing that matters, to me in any case, is the strength of the argument itself.
yep, I'm the same state780 over at allstocks--in the the thread that has, last time I checked, been locked down after the latest trash-talking binge by a PLNI optimist (not you).
As I have stated on numerous occasions here, on RB and at allstocks, I do not currently hold PLNI. I think a more rational pps is in the .002-003 range, again for reasons I have stated for quite a long time. I am not "trashing" anything, I am describing what I believe to be true.
For the life of me, after Lucy (PLNI, Howe, etc.) pulled the football away from you during two crucial dilution bombs that you insisted were not being dropped, I will never understand why you have so much optimism about this operation.
rrm, at the risk of repeating myself, all I can do is point to your own previous, sincere and not unreasonable theories about why PLNI was not being diluted--when it was.
I like your reasoning.
I've thought for a long time that PLNI's reality-adjusted price ought to be around .002-.003. IMO.
Interesting thoughts. I thought out loud on this board, recently, about whether NITE and/or UBSS was the new VFIN as far as marketing shares is concerned. As for PLNI's profitability, did anyone else notice that even before the recent PR moratorium, PLNI stopped saying anything about being profitable?
And while I'm at it, rrm's cause-and-effect scenarios are off, I believe.
The last time the share price was at .014 was in early October. It wasn't only the presence of extra shares that pushed and kept the pps down--it was information about the extra shares. Namely, the posting of the diluted share numbers on pinksheets.com, plus the discovery of PLNI's secret and still unexplained 5 billion a/s filing (that was the one in which Bill Howe told rrm the o/s and float hadn't changed 'one iota'). Similarly, the primary weight on the pps in more recent times that dragged the price below .004 wasn't more outstanding shares-it was the NEWS of more outstanding shares, again posted on pinksheets.com.
I agree that the pps since then can be viewed as holding up fairly well, considering the history and the facts. But by this time, the track record shows pretty clearly that the pps can hover in a range for quite a long time even when the shares are being diluted--right up to the moment the dilution is verified.
rrm, doesn't it bother you just a little bit that over the past year, a variety of people suggested the PLNI had diluted shares, and they were right--twice? I seem to recall PLNI optimists protesting loudly how those were outrageous suppositions. Talk about deja vu.
thanks for the report/eom
Thanks for the report. Basically it's a very quiet, extremely thinly traded stock that looks like it will do nothing for awhile and then, one hopes, pop up later. The company itself and the products seem sound; I am telling myself that I made a mistake buying in simply because the company does not have a history of communicating regularly with the public via formal PRs.
I still think this will be fine, but it's dead money for awhile IMHO.
If I'm reading the stats right, the highest price times the volume comes to a grand total of 4900 dollars--or euros, whatever. I don't think it means anything at all.
"let me add "IMO" to that first sentence, because I'm really asking that you rethink that statement"
lol! But thanks for your assistance!
Thank goodness there are people who are negative about ANY stock and still holding and posting--otherwise these would just be cheerleader boards, that is to say, useless.
I was going to ask a week or two ago whether NITE and/or UBSS was the new VFIN as far as dilution of shares is concerned. I have no special knowledge, but looking at the factors you mention, I'd be very surprised if significant dilution wasn't under way once again.
You have heard about financials because PLNI kept promising for two years to file them, and hasn't.
You have heard about the audit for the same reason.
You have heard about the buyback because PLNI put out PRs about a buyback while massively diluting the shares.
Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
P.S. If Mr. New Blood thinks MOVI could have gotten away with making formal announcements about share reductions while massively diluting the stock without getting a little courtesy call from the SEC--well, good luck with that.
Ridiculous comparison. MOVI is a fully reporting company. PLNI can't even get its L2s printed on the pinksheets website. Enough said.
Posters over at RB are saying there was nothing new--significantly, no mention of Semco (and needless to say, nothing about the audit or the share structure).
Thanks for relaying that. It's been a long time since they put out any information--early December. They need to say something positive about things moving forward.
nice work. Looking forward to any info they may provide.
The Semco acquistion has not been completed.
Me too, thought it can't hurt to ask.
Rook, earlier today IIRC a poster at RB showed what he said was an email from Arch in response to his question. To paraphrase (I didn't bookmark it), whoever responded said PLNI was there and exhibited, but exhibitons/presentations were not recorded for broadcast.
In one sense it's typical of a pinky that nothing happens for awhile, then there's massive volume with no news out...but, uh, there's no news out, not that I can find anyway.
yeah...tanking...eom
At what price were you trying to get filled?
Well, the company hasn't been very communicative lately but I was glad to see the spike today. Another one like that and I may actually be green!