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Support The Troops
Demand the VA be expanded to assist all Vets returing from Iraq. Not sure if the VA is considered a "Socialist" or "Liberal" institution, and I really dont care if it is.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/11/told_to_wait_a_marine_dies/
Told to wait, a Marine dies
VA care in spotlight after Iraq war veteran's suicide
By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff | February 11, 2007
STEWART, Minn. -- It took two years of hell to convince him, but finally Jonathan Schulze was ready.
On the morning of Jan. 11, Jonathan, an Iraq war veteran with two Purple Hearts, neatly packed his US Marine Corps duffel bag with his sharply creased clothes, a framed photo of his new baby girl, and a leather-bound Bible and headed out from the family farm for a 75-mile drive to the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in St. Cloud, Minn.
Family and friends had convinced him at last that the devastating mental wounds he brought home from war, wounds that triggered severe depression, violent outbursts, and eventually an uncontrollable desire to kill himself, could not be drowned in alcohol or treated with the array of antianxiety drugs he'd been prescribed.
And so, with his father and stepmother at his side, he confessed to an intake counselor that he was suicidal. He wanted to be admitted to a psychiatric ward.
But, instead, he was told that the clinician who prescreened cases like his was unavailable. Go home and wait for a phone call tomorrow, the counselor said, as Marianne Schulze, his stepmother, describes it.
When a clinical social worker called the next day, Jonathan, 25, told again of his suicidal thoughts and other symptoms. And then, with his stepmother listening in, he learned that he was 26th on the waiting list for one of the 12 beds in the center's ward for post-traumatic stress disorder sufferers.
Four days later, on Jan. 16, he wrapped a household extension cord around his neck, tied it to a beam in the basement, and hanged himself.
In life, Jonathan Schulze didn't get nearly what he needed. But in death, this tough and troubled Marine may help get something critical done.
The apparent failure of the Department of Veterans Affairs to offer him timely and necessary care has electrified the debate on the blogs and websites that connect an increasingly networked and angry veterans community. It has triggered an internal investigation by the VA into how a serviceman with such obvious symptoms faced a wait for hospital care.
And it is being cited by veterans' advocates and their allies in Congress as a searing symbol of a system that they say is vastly unprepared and under funded to handle the onslaught of 1.5 million veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan who are returning home, an estimated one in five of them with post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. One in three Iraq war veterans is seeking mental health services, according to a report by an Army panel of experts last year.
The death of Jonathan also raises questions, among veterans and in Washington, about how far the military culture still has to go in dealing with the stigma often attached to cases of mental illness. Marines, especially, just aren't supposed to cry out for help. Continued...
Wow, what did I miss?
Looks like Razor's venom is contagious.
I like the Zombie site OTC. Some good photos there.
What the hell is scrotal inflation? Did you see that?
And boobs. Lots of boobs. I like boobs.
Not sure what it has to do with Socialism, looked more Anarchism to me.
Hey bbotcs,
I agree, but for different reasons.
I like Obama, but he is still a bit green. I think he will make a good VP.
Hillary is an empty suit. She would sell her daughter to the Arabs to get elected.
I never liked Edwards. He's an ambulance chaser who made his fortune suing doctors.
I always disliked Al Gore, until I saw An Inconvienient Truth. And its not Global Warming that caused me to like him, it was the fact that he was able to look back at his past and laugh at himself. I dont think he takes him self very seriously. He is a very experienced, and humble man. I think he would be perfect for the office.
Len,
It seems we are not the only ones trying to show Razor a little light. Here are some rather excellent replies to posts of his on another board.
Posted by: eaglesurvivor
In reply to: Razorbucks who wrote msg# 60912
Date:2/9/2007 2:16:04 PM
Post #of 61060
Razorbucks: what is it with you? A number of us lay salvos into Repugs and Demos with equal force. We don't bite into this liberal/conservative artificial divide. It comes down to personal liberty and a constitutional republic or the high risk of international socialism.
If you would just take a wee bit of time away from your public consumption propaganda "news" bytes and look at the reality of a government run amok, you might find that we represent a greater hope and reality of preserved America the great than some psychopathic traitor like Drug Rush Goebbels.
"When in doubt, empty the clip."
Posted by: IxCimi
In reply to: eaglesurvivor who wrote msg# 60918
Date: 2/9/2007 2:21:00 PM
Post #
Well said, but if you aren't a Neo-Con Jackbooter, you are an enemy of the State according to our dear, twisted Agent Provocateur.
Even the average fiscal Republican is their enemy. Can't do whatever you want to take over the world if someone is telling you to cool it financially.
So can my religion get government welfare terminals?
We worship snails, and other mollusca.
Like I said, this is a thin one. My opinion is that churches should not be branches of the government.
Someone, someday, is going to disallow a particular religious sect from equal access.
You seem like the 'strict' Conservative type of guy.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Who at the Faith Based office determines which religions qualify? And why doesnt my religion meet the muster?
Faith Based initiative is a clear violation of the First Amendment in my opinion.
As soon as money is involved, and someone at the government gets to decide what is a religion, and what is not a religion. By providing government services through churches, someone needs to 'establish' what is a church.
Indiana's new welfare system is being designed to allow churches access to benefit application terminals, inside the church.
Church and US Taxes dollars. Established.
But of all the violations, your right this is one the thinner ones.
Violated Rights - "Specifics"
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Bush Administration violations:
First Amendment Zones are a clear violation of the right to assemble.
Established religion with the "Faith based initiative".
Violated the right to petition the government in more than 19 cases where "States Secrets" have been to declared to protect the guilty. The kidnapping and torture of Maher Arar being the latest. Siebel Edmonds whistleblowing was shut down as well.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Warrantless wiretapping without probable cause.
Searching mail without a warrant.
Storing and recording individual internet use information without a warrant.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Gitmo prisoners held without due process.
American citizen Jose Padilla held incognito now for 31/2 years.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Jose Padilla and numerous other American citizens declared "Enemey Combatants" and denied their "Rights".
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
John Ashcroft attempting to shut down assisted suicide in Oregon.
Federal prosectution of medical patients who legally use marijuana in California, Oregon, Washington.
And thats just in 5 minutes.
No argument there Death!
I got to hear him as a kind growing up in South Jersey.
Hey eaglesurvivor!
Great post here.
We have been trying to straighten young Razor out on our board as well. Reading your post and others on this board have made it worth the headache.
I'd like to repost it over on our board if its alright with you. Most of us wish we could say it that eloquently.
More Clarity.
Eh..hemm (throat clearing)
I said "I dont tolerate fools". Insinuating yes, but I didnt call Razor a fool.
I watched some I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby stuff this week, so I thought I'd get a little legaleze in before the weekend.
What kind of middle aged man keeps the nickname "scooter"?
Some clarity.
As far as I can tell, this is Razor's first post on this board in an out of the blue post to Rogue.
"Take some meds for your schizophrenia"
"You leftists are about the most intolerant people on earth."
"...watch and listen! Now, who's lying?"
Obvious childish baiting. Never been here before, wants to get attention, i.e., 'A' Leaguer.
Being the mature person that I am (sarcasm), I eagerly took the bait and answered his silly little questions.
He mentions something about coming over to his board... doesnt respond to my points, Len's questions, just rattles on about how evil and stupid the "Liberals" are.
Rogue posted about Hegelian Dialectic, and it got me a little fiesty, so I took it out on Rush 'Jr.'
And today, I woke up and the sun was in the same spot as it was yesterday at this time.
Lets move it along here...
Rogue: Hegelian Dialectic
I thought about this a bunch today. Its kinda what got me all lathered up. Its so perfect. I wonder how much Orwell knew about Hegel.
I went back and read some of the posts from the last 2 days, and its amazing how explicitly the lines have been drawn.
Some people can break the cycle quite easily. Others are consumed by it. What really struck me was that breaking the cycle is almost paradoxical.
Just by explaining the Hegelian Dialectic, and challenging someone to avoid it, you created another division. Therefore, its may be safe to assume, that now that the cycle has been identified, it cannot be stopped. Stopping it, increases it. And no, I'm not sitting around listening to my old Dead tapes and smoking my lawn.
Whatever Junior. You're right, and everybody else in the world is an idiot. I get it. I've heard it before.
Yawn.
Like extremists on both the left and the right, your talking points are not very well thought out, or delivered.
We've had plenty of other Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage disciples here. Your rhetoric is no different, and no less predictable.
You've got your blinders on, and you've drank the kool-aid. The "Liberals" are the enemy.
All of the policies of the "Conservative" movement have failed. You wont hold them accountable. You wont question the ideology. You wont acknowledge the mistakes. Like our President, you have no credibilty.
And now your ilk are out of power, and it will probably be that way for a long time.
And the worst part of it is... that the pendulum will swing back the other way, and extremists on the left will now be given validation.
I figured out your definition of Liberalism. Liberals are everyone who disagrees with you, and your shallow, immature perspective of the world.
You can tell me "I'm Done" again.
Hehe... Standing Oh!!
I love having Len as my designated hitter.
That ball is outa here!!
Rogue,
When I read the info you provided, and came back to read some of our newests post, it instantly saw why you brought it up.
You're exactly right. I've said it before. They want us fighting. We are easier to control if we are divided. Each side needs to consider the other side as enemies.
And both sides are equally guilty.
A couple points.
There are members of the Democratic party that are far more Conservative than members of the Republican party.
If I was to give the Dems a nickname it would be the Invertebrate Party.
And the Republicans? I'm not sure "American Taliban Party" is suitable anymore, they seem to have dumped the whole religion thing rather quickly.
You got me. You are the far superior debater.
It's obvious you're out of my league.
I bow to your intellect.
I will now reconsider my "Liberalosity".
I can only beg for your forgiveness, and pity.
Hey OTC,
Good post there.
Both I guess. But my real point is that there is no such thing as a "Liberal" or a "Conservative" person.
Liberalism and Conservatism are political philosophies. They are not polar opposites, and they are not diametrically opposed. In fact, the philosophies have far more in common than not.
You and I are a great example of this. We agree on many things and strongly disagree on a few.
My argument is that nobody fits into the category of "Liberal" or "Conservative", even our Conservative president.
And if Mr. Razorbuck would engage in the discussion, I bet he would discover that he has "Liberal" tendencies as well.
"You're done."
I am? Could you please proof or evidence, in the form of a link, picture or some other basis of fact?
I saw you replaced "Republican hate activity" with "Conservative hate activity" in your post. You caught yourself didnt you?
So what your really meaning to say instead of "Liberals" is Democrats is it?
But you cant link Democrats to your "evidence", so you insert the general, undefined term "Liberals".
And the layers of the onion begin to peel away.
Links and Proof of what?
What are you talking about? What have I stated that requires proof?
I commented on your decrying "Liberals" and asked you for some explaination as to who this group of hateful evil doer's are.
I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm letting you do all the proving. I'm just feeding you rope.
I won the bet.
You didnt answer the question.
Thats 5 now.
Len;
Did you ever see Bull Durham? Remember the character Tim Robbins played... I cant remember his name, but Kevin Costner called him "meat"?
He wants to get to the "game".
I loved it when he threw the wild pitch at the mascot. Priceless.
"Too lazy to provide links, I'm assuming?"
There are no links to my beliefs. Sorry, I have to type them out.
My values are not represented in other people's websites.
Are you incapable of discussing your beliefs without the backing of websites?
Lets do some math. You avoided answering 2 of Lens questions, and now avoided answering 2 of mine.
What are you afraid of? Its not calculus.
Is George Bush a "Liberal" or a "Conservative"?
I bet you dont answer that one either.
Lets jump ahead a little bit...
Another question.
Do you feel "Conservatives" can also be "Liberal"?
"Please show your evidence instead of ranting."
What rant?
I asked you a question, do you feel "Conservatives" are incapable of hate?
Its an easy question really.
"Look at the actions of hate."
You should be a comedian, you're cracking me up.
So in your opinion, "Conservatives" are not hateful, and never practice hatred?
OTC,
I dont think I was putting forth an opinion in that post. I was quoting the article Rogue posted.
"You support every policy used to gradually reduce the rights of individuals and then claim to be against a growing govt."
Not sure where you got that impression. I think some parts of the government need to grow with the population, but I think others can be totally done away with. Like the Dept of Education, the Dept of Energy, and the Dept of Commerce.
And you accused Len of being "hateful"?
Here is the really funny thing about your post. You could replace even use of the term "Liberal" with the word "Conservative" and it would be just as meaningless.
Good stuff Rogue!
I could read stuff like that all day.
"For example: If (A) my idea of freedom conflicts with (B) your idea of freedom then (C) neither of us can be free until everyone agrees to be a slave."
I have been rolling that one through my head for at least an hour.
" The Hegelian dialectic is the ridiculous idea that constant conflict and continual merging of opposite ideologies, as established by extreme right or left belief systems, will lead spiritual mankind into final perfection. (Americans understood man's spiritual quests to be outside the realm of government control). "
Wow. Talk about hitting the sweet spot. We need the government to keep us free, we cannot be free if government continues to grow. The ultimate conflict.
"Hegel's brilliance rests in his ability to confuse and obfuscate the true motives of the planners, and millions of people world-wide have been trying to make sense of why it doesn't work for over 150 years. But like the AA definition of insanity, the world keeps trying it over and over expecting different results. ..."
So what is the alternative? Utopia? These conflicts are now so well defined and ingrained. How do we break the cycle?
First idea: Break up the 2-party system.
Thanks for proving my point.
I'm not really interested in debating you to be honest.
Anyone who comes onto this board with a first post such as yours does not garner my respect, and I dont tolerate fools.
Frankly, I think you owe Rogue an apology.
Wow. Think you can go straight from A league ball to the major league eh?
Your gonna need a bigger bat junior.
1. If the liberal "progressive" movement is indeed tolerant, why does this happen?
- Election Signs spray painted, etc.
Its called crime. And it has nothing to do with the "progressive" movement, the same way former Congressmen Duke Cunningham and Tom Delay's crimes have nothing to do with the "conservative" movement.
2. What is the leftist strategy to win in Iraq?
The Iraq war was started and lost by Republicans. Why didnt the Republicans have a strategy to win when they started the war? Have you held them accountable? Why do the Dems need to fix your f**kups?
3. Name 25 rights that you have lost in the last 6 years...
This isnt a question. The Bush administration has violated the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 10th Ammendments of the US Constitution. They have also kidnapped, tortured, and murdered innocent civilians.
4. Why did Air America go bankrupt?
Revenues were less than expenses.
5. Yes, please list the "lies"...
Again, not a question.
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Dickhead Cheney
6. Why is it okay for democrats to call of the resignation of half of the Republicans in congress over inappropriate emails to congressional pages...
The page Studds had sex with had left the page program, and was of the age of consent. Pages complained about advances from Foley, and the complaints were hushed to try and win an election.
7. How would retreating from the fight against terrorism in Iraq help the situation of terrorism in Darfur?
Our calamity in Iraq will not help the situation in Darfur, and the warlords we are arming in Ethiopia, while not Islamic, are just as rotten. Other than humanitarian aid and supporting the UN, we should be trying to demilitarize the region, not supplying weapons to one bad guy over another.
8. Tell me how you're going to "wage/demand peace" with Islamofascism?
No such thing as Islamofacism, so your argument is predicated with a misnomer. Same answer as #7. Stop arming people like Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran, the Saudis, Syria, Jordan, Columbia, Panama, Nicaragqua (sp?).
Decapitators? Invade my country and kill my family... if I catch you... you'll beg me to decapitate you with a rusty knife.
9. If liberals are so tolerant, why are secular liberals so anti-Christian like daytraderkidd shows on this board?
Everyone is different. Personally, I dont tolerate Christian group think. I call em like I see. Its your right to be offended by the truth.
P.S. I'm not a Liberal, and your really not ready to debate on this board.
"you find that the opposite result of what you want happens"
Exactly!!
Like sticking your hand in a flame. Elect idiots, and you get burned.
Want to elect a war monger and let him steal our treasury? Get ready for your wallet to be a little lighter. Maybe next time when you visit the polls, you'll think about your decision.
Like myself, I think most Democrates are fine with Bush's tax cuts.
It's the extra $500,000,000,000.00 a year in spending that I have a problem with.
That, and our new $3,000,000,000,000.00 debt, which we pay appoximately $258,000,000,000.00 a year to service.
I still favor the Balanced Budget Ammendment. A tax hike for every increase in spending.
If were going to elect idiots who start unnecessary wars and then pay out their crony buddies with billions in phoney contracts and war profiteering... then we deserve to be taxed to the friggn hilt.
RAISE 'EM UP!! I want 90% rates until the war is over. I bet it'll be over next week.
Amazing Baghdad Video
This a military unit driving through the city in their Humvee. The video is a great example of why we have already lost Iraq.
The guys driving the vehicle will not stop or slow down for anything, whether it be traffic or pedestrians. They simply drive into the bumpers of other cars on the road.
Do you blame them? I don't. If they stop, they will be targets.
Now, look at this from the Iraqi's perspective. Arrogant American occupiers pushing citizen's vehicles off the road, and almost driving over pedestrians.
Our military cant win. They can never win over hearts and minds when they are just trying to survive.
Ameritrade is down for me as well Bob.
Cant even get to the login screen.
Len,
Nutjobosity? Isnt that a pituitary disorder?
I have also noticed increased cases of Spinalackolitis, a disorder whereby the victim is born without a spine. There has been an outbreak in our government over past few years.
I know you're not defending Cheney.
But it wasnt the left that made homosexuality an issue. It was the right. Then they didnt want to face up to the fact that they were denouncing the daughter of the second in command of the GOP. And he just let them denouce her.
Not me. I would have told Falwell, Robertson, and the wack jobs over at Dobson's place to pack sand.
Sure, he stands up to Wolf Blitzer, but not to the right wing zealots. Like I've said numerous times, GOP, party before everything.
"No other father of a lesbian daughter would be treated that way."
He let her be treated that way for the past 6 years without saying a word. He kept her off the stage at the 2004 convention, when the rest of his family was allowed up there with him.
Cheney is the worst kind of father. He put politics above family.