Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
All the rest of us have to go by is the Eco PR, and that is indeed a sad state of affairs as we have seen over and over. If you have something else that says otherwise, post it and I will post another retraction.
Agree, it would be idiotic to cling to a Big Box as a sole source of income. For that reason it certainly sounds plausible, based on Eco's lack of a cohesive and logical strategy for success. Maybe the PR from HD will clarify this.
FYI, for months, I have deleted everybody's PM's w/o reading them.
My bad this time. The exclusivity statement was from the Eco PR about the Depot deal, not the 10-Q. So somebody is incorrect regarding the exclusivity statement. Eco CEO says it is exclusive, and J45 says it isn't. Somebody please tell me who is correct.
There is a false statement in the 10-Q that is signed by the Eco CEO and entire Board of Directors? And the purpose of that would be?
Another Eco 10-Q out with an update:
"The Company has settled a dispute with Hudson Bay Master Fund, LTD which resulted in a loss of $143,841 and was expensed towards interest expense."
From AbleBody77 post, assuming he or she can cut and paste:
"In Connection with the Amendment, Home Depot will have the exclusive right in the United States and its territories and possessions to sell the Company’s products."
What part of the word "exclusive" is not clear? Eco has one sales channel now. Completely dependent on Depot. This is a customer's dream come true. Got absolute control over vendor.
The day there's an advantage, Lowes will be onboard. Menard's and everybody else. Painters will be coming out of the woods, as some already are. Nobody else will have Eco's debt and management team.
Of the companies I know selling a Big Box, it is not their only account. The big box provides volume and low margins. Their other customers provide healthy margin and lower volume. These are lean companies running with virtually no debt. They say the big boxes are a pain because they require most of their time and effort, but provide the minority of their actual profits. They hang in there for the scale, but some do come and go as the big box demands exceed their business model from time to time. None would run on a big box alone. These are well run companies without any of Eco's issues. And Eco is now contractually nailed to Depot, solo. You can add a bazillion stores, but the situation doesn't change.
Or somebody like KOP-Coat. You can give them a ring and be in the business rather quickly.
Tag, in reply to this and clarification on a question you asked a couple/few days ago....
Eco still doesn't have a patent. They have made an application, and according to the last 10-K, commentary was sent back to Eco and that is where that stands. Perhaps somebody on this blog can speak to the commentary Eco received. But, No patent today. No enforceable patent ever, as far as spraying borate on wood, and even the color red. They MAY be able to patent certain aspects of their in-house equipment, but spraying wood isn't new, so there are already methods in use to circumvent any process patent. There's already red, pink, and purple FRTW, some with EPA efficacy, so they can't even capture the red color.
You also mentioned TradeMark status recently. If you look at their Wood Spec posted on the Ecob.net website, for example, "TM" is used liberally, and quite liberally elsewhere. That document is dated August 2012. Interesting. In the last 10-K on Page 11 under Trademarks, it says there are none. So they MAY have applied for TM, but according to Eco, they don't have them, yet. Maybe somebody can find that update in a 10-Q?
Tag, I think they want to ignore Eco Building Products's ESR-3255, sections 4.4 and 5.6. There is no provision for any wetting of the 'uncoated' version of Red Shield. Even the coated-over version must not be exposed to weather when installed, and cannot be 'continuously wetted' during transit, whatever that means. Probably means it must be tarped on the truck since Eco doesn't put waterproof bags on bundles. The content in the ESR is what Eco agreed to on date of issue, regardless of what they may publish elsewhere.
Where's that earlier post about it being considered for boardwalks? Unless the ESR has more typos, like the one about TPI, boardwalks are not on the table.
That may be true as well, but not in this particular case. And yet another western location was sprayed onsite. In the latter case, I don't know who did that one. I will give you a tip though. Many/most of these guys spraying after construction are active or retired fireman.
That can't be so because Eco business with Depot is what solves everything, so we have been told for months.. If you take Depot out of the picture, then the solution for everything is gone.
Which means what? Big Boxes get price protection on inventory, so it makes no difference what type of building the inventory is in.
Depot did outfox the fox. They have shifted the commodity price burden to Eco Building Products. It may be the only reason they are into Eco beyond the initial pilot. Instead of having to buy directly from mills and accept the risk of random pricing, which Depot is probably pretty good at avoiding, they have found a mechanism to get somebody else to take ALL that responsibility. Eco will take ALL the risk. Depot can simply stop buying at will, and use their mill contracts for their own raw wood supply. But Eco can't unload a market dip elsewhere because they can only sell to Depot. Depot can flip the switch off and on whenever they want. Eco's inventory is not Depot's problem. Kudos to Depot for figuring this out, and finding a vendor that would take the bait!
No fear. Conboy put that $490K in a special lockbox.
Great reply.
I didn't win a 2013 Epstein Award, nor am I at a HIE.
10-Q says Depot has decided to let Eco continue to bleed, only more. That's the only decision made, which even the Eco PR supports. Some folks see that as a positive, though the 10-Q says otherwise. I didn't write or post the 10-Q.
10Q and Depot deal.
To borrow $500k at 9% with a $10k service fee in order to buy and resale a commodity product (raw wood), is at best walking up the down escalator backwards in the dark. As Tag said, Eco Building Products has already given up the margin. Then add to that the risk that comes with getting into that end of the business. Do you really think Conboy knows has to buy, sell, and do enough inventory turns to not be left holding the bag on a raw wood market dump?
If Depot is no longer fronting the wood, how can he even buy competitively in a Depot market to begin with, ignoring the loan issue?
But there is more. When Depot supplied the wood, Depot wasn't in a strong position to cherry pick inbound product. If Eco buys the wood, a cruel fact of being a big box wood vendor comes into play. Returns for credit and withheld invoices.
Fun bus stops here. Hop on!
The one I am aware of is nailed up on a MF MS project out west. Lumber and panels. They don't have to sell through Depot, so they probably made some money.
Tag, Please save me the trouble of buzzing through that uplifting Eco Building Products Q again. Was that sales number for just Depot spraying, or did it include all the custom builders we've been reading about, Hawaii, Haiti, Jamaica, chemical sales to the Licensee network, and those 7 truckloads to TX in the PR. I don't want to make a mole hill out of a mountain.
Tag, that Eco Red Shield sales number is actually indicative of the minimal amount of damage caused by Superstorm Sandy. With 10 stores stocking and 20 more doing special orders, heck yea, that stuff was flying of the shelves. When you go into a Depot store in Socal or the Sandy area, i just have one word of advice. "Duck!"
Watch out for flying wood.
This isn't a proper forum for posting technical and testing info. Steve Convoy will bring down yet another set of tablets from the mountain. All Hail the World's cleverest inventor and smartest businessman. Maybe a Nobel Prize next year? Would look good next to that Epstein award.
Oh ye of little blind faith.
But if you go back to my posts and PM's WHILE the ESR was in suspension, I also said then that ESR was a waste of money and resources, and an unnecessary risk. Risk being, it could be suspended or pulled. If Eco hadn't got an ESR, though wouldn't have gotten a black eye over it. And they wouldn't have had to make false claims about TPI 3rd party when it was reactivated. ICC-ES shouldn't have let that ESR hang out there with TPI referenced. But they, and it came back with QAI....as I predicted.
Home Depot will eventually wise up, as TPI. TPI walked away from Eco's monthly money because they couldn't get comfortable with Eco's broad claims. That is just a fact.
Something is missing from your post. Home Channel is a pay-to-play network. Quite expensive as well.
Depot knows they can't do that. Any code change will be generic. Then every lumber and plywood/osb mill will be spraying the wood they ship. Any that slips through there will be sprayed at dealers or on the job site after framing. It will be 100% level playing field, except for Eco being cut out of the entire process. You can't patent spraying borate on wood.
If you thought I had nothing, you would ignore my postings.
The red Canadians are a big problem for Eco. Eco can't sue them if their own hands aren't clean. It would be a suicide suit for Eco. Then again, if Eco does nothing, what's left? Somebody left the gate open, and the novel concept of spraying borate on wood has been invented by others, too.
Nope my friend. If you want to play in the big leagues, it's entirely up to you to protect your patents, trademarks, etc. You have to find them, and you have to hire the attorneys to chase them. Last thing I am going to do is help you guys do your DD. It's the big leagues. You'll also have to protect yourself from the long arm of the Depot. Don't be complaining already because somebody won't help this early in the game. A patent is worthless if you can't protect it yourself. Sorry, but no amount of teasing will get me to do Eco's DD for them.
It's red colored. Steve's shadow is catching up with him.
After getting burned by FlameDXX, I would be surprised if Boise picked up another snake oil product this soon, especially with any fire claims.
FlameDXX was just Eco w/o the stock scam. Depot sold some of that, too! Depot was deflowered long ago.
Sorry, no can help. It's Eco's job to find interlopers and pay to prosecute. That comes with holding a patent. Oh that's right., Eco still only has an application.
More red non-"frtw" is already nailed up in the US. Right under Steve's nose. Looks like Steve may need to lower his prices already.
Too late. There's already a copycat shipping into the US from Canada. Sounds like Mark and Steve have an opportunity to try to protect their patent APPLICATION.
No way Conboy has the business savvy to even work the wood as a zero net pass through at best. He'll just lose more money playing in the untreated wood market. You have to be equally smart at buying as you do selling. With Eco's own 10-Q showing no skills at selling at a profit, they will do as well buying untreated. Will afford Eco two layers to take a loss at, if not more.
They sure can't buy at Depot prices, so if Eco is forced to buy the raw wood at some point, it will be a runaway train.
Nobody has yet to explain the borate impregnated wood seen at the Colton yard. Spraying that and reselling it couldn't have been cheap.
10-day is pretty standard for the lumber/wood business.
Unless Eco can buy wood cheaper than H-D, you just pointed at another nail in Eco's coffin. Eco will be even less competitive with the white wood on the next rack.
Eco has funding to carry 104 Depots for 10 days??? Where is that money coming from? As I said months ago and as black beard is telling you today, Eco should have steered clear of big boxes and focused on getting their act together. Instead, Depot is going to sink all chances for them to even get to a 1/1 COS in this century.
Huge mistake selling the truss plant in a turnaround economy just to help fund Depot. Deck chairs? I don't see any left to rearrange.
Yea. Depot exec's stay awake at night thinking about how they can help Eco.
Yikes! Somebody else on this blog understands the reality that Big Box Land is also the realm of no-to-low margins. Eco can move more volume, but COS condemns them. Big Box vendor strategy is, "NEXT!"
Consider, too, if I read it correctly, the Depot pilot extension keeps Eco out of MarginLand. That being pro dealers and legit distribution channels that service those dealers.
Conboy has again condemned Eco to more of the same 10-Q's. Eco's losses aren't Depot's problem.
"NEXT!"
So.....the biggest thing to hit Home Depot since the 2x4 and a nail doesn't warrant an HD PR. Fascinating.
As previously stated, the 2015 IRC and IBC are locked in already. You must be talking about amending the 2018 Editions, which probably won't be adopted anywhere until 2020+, according to history.
With so many false Eco PR's over the years, I am curious about how you determine when one has something true in it? I guess there was a corresponding PR from HD since this is such a huge game changer for HD, too?
Looking at Eco's COS, that would mean more debt for Eco. Ignoring ALL of Eco's other fatal problems, there is still that COS ratio. Depending on how you do the Math, worst-case if you take all of Eco's own numbers literally it's about $4 cost for every $1 of sales. If he's fudging on the 10-Q, it could even be worse. Best-case, if you creatively massage the numbers in Eco's favor, you might get a 3/1 or 2/1 ratio. That's an astoundingly bad ratio for a PSO (painting service only) operation. Would tend to indicate that he probably doesn't know how to buy lumber well either and lacks the capital to experiment (we know where the money goes - debt), so adding that operation would make things even worse, when it would actually help most companies by opening another revenue stream embedded inside another. If he was a good businessman and knew how to buy and sell lumber on the market, he could actually make money off the wood, too (outside Depot). If there was some high-end hardware or software development going on, that COS would have an excuse in the early days, but this is just painting wood. Ancient technology. Should have been at least breaking even out of the gate. What isn't wrong with this picture? Nonetheless, this may or may not have anything to do with flipping sub-penny stocks, as I think most of us agree on.
It's obviously time to bring in Ron Propeil, inventor of the pocket fisherman, and help Eco land the big one.
Maybe this stuff is good to the last drop.