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A good point to ask management. Maybe they have something in mind to integrate some patents into their ringtone business?
I paid .50 -60 for my first shares but that company is not this company. Of course it would be nice if it was $4.00 but this will not move until we get clarity from the judge it is as simple as that. No amount of complaining will change this.
ASk Gilford Securities they have a $65 target on VHC
In general I agree with you however I think many people should really consider what this company does and how they increase shareholder value. What they are not is a manufacturer, they don't sell anything, notwithstanding facetones which is not really relevant. What they actually do is acquire patents and try and monetize them by striking licensing deals or through litigation. So far they have successfully sued and won a lawsuit versus Google , final resolution to be determined, second they have filed several lawsuits against ZTE in Germany and the UK involving some of the 500 Nokia patents they bought in August. Further they have sued Msft after the jury declared their patents valid and enforceable. Finally they have purchased several additional patents and set alliances which will be exploited. This is how they increase shareholder value. The problem is these efforts take time to bear fruit. People talking about Vringo not trying to increase shareholder value should try and understand what this company does first. They have been a public company for less than 7 months.
Thanks for the legal perspective no offence taken. I do expect Google to seriously consider settlement if the Judge affirms the jury verdict and sets a 5% royalty rate. They would not be setting a precedent for future litigation because they would only pursue settlement if at all under those circumstances. I am a long-time trader/investor and people can be brave about shorts or longs as long as profits are there, when they vanish which I believe will be the case under my scenario, (with Institutions buying in) I don't see most shorts hanging in. BTW not sure if you are others are aware of this but Ashley Keller our new Director has set-up up a new $100 million dollar fund. Therefore he could be a source of buying
From Vringfreeboards
Short situations like this only work when you have a stagnant or declining stock price like this has been. I feel many buyers will move in when the threat of Google wiping out the jury verdict is removed. Shorts will not watch their profits erode in that scenario. Institutions will not be concerned with time-frames or appeal situations because Google will be going after a reversal of a jury verdict and a Judge re-affirming that verdict. Also there is no guarantee that their appeal will be accepted.
Long odds, they may try it but their chance is slim, I do see Google settling with Vringo if these events occur.
However I can see (shorts) re-entering their short positions under your scenario at higher prices but I doubt many of the 15 million shares now shorted will still be active, some but most not.
mm's do take out stops as needed when they get too short a stock, bear raids usually happen just before an expected event like a pharma FDA approval etc. The event here is unknown as to timing they may get a small heads up but not enough to execute a raid.
I agree with some of your comments but I do not believe the downward pressure will persist once the chance to squash the case is not on the table. As a short there would be nothing in the following verdicts that will be favorable to them (My opinion only). Remember Google is willfully infringing as of the jury verdict, once affirmed the Judge will compensate Vringo by possibly increasing the royalty rate to 5 or 7% but I think 5 is more likely. Why would you hold as a short, there is no big stick left and this will also embolden many on the sidelines to buy including institutions who want clarity like everyone else.
MM's always take a stock in the path of least resistance. Not enough buying to change their minds, but they probably have a large short position also and they may try or have taken out stops to gather shares , stop losses which only they can see where they are and how many.
Most shorts initiated at much higher prices, so they are comfortable for now. Only one ruling , my opinion, will get them scrambling, denying Google's JMOL motion should put most, but not all the shorts to the sidelines
Question for you. Where do you get a time-frame like this? What possible reason that you could think of would take a year or two to resolve?
This will resolved well before then. I expect news from the Judge by April end at latest based on my research. Not all motions but we will have news by then my opinion
First it is not an argument unless you are making it one. It is an opinion and your premise is incorrect. I was simply stating a fact captured here by Mark Hulbert
Very good ....we can all use some laughter..thanks for that..
Most people thought this was going to $10 + by now in November, check the posts. Sentiment is a contrary indicator, max bullishness November, check results, now pretty much max pessimism, check back in a few months for the answer...
On a macro level, most people get really bullish at tops in markets and overly negative at bottoms, it is human nature. There are plenty of studies that prove this point.
Your assumption is that he has done nothing with the motions for four months that is not how judges work.
Also lower prices on declining volume indicates shorts trying to lower cover level...
They know what will happen, pros are hedged with some calls, aggressive shorts will be destroyed the strategy has worked but they have not covered because they think prices are going lower, one ruling by JJ will change this perception.
I think the shorts are done here, they are going into the decisions with 15 million plus shares short and very little puts, lets see what happens if decisions start coming out especially JMOL which will be the match (assuming it goes in Vringo's favor)...
VHC? Yes of course once they obtain another win in court and I am sure they will , the stock will bounce back, it has done this before and gone up in price
VHC one of the leaders in the space and it does not help when it has been massacred from $32 to $18... different outcomes (jury verdicts) but sentiment is not rational
Oversold yes, but what stops this decay other than real news? Maybe there is news that Vringo can provide to lend some support but the reality is this judge could have made rulings as decisions were made by him or he could make them all at once. He is obviously going to send out almost all his rulings rapid fire whenever, which sucks. Most likely from what I have read in the new few weeks but no one really knows, don't you just love patent companies ... NOT
Well this is the first time that I can remember that the short position has not (essentially) changed in two weeks since the verdict.
Vringo, Inc. Common Stock VRNG 15,268,817 15,265,521 3,296
Just 3,296 shares shorted in the last 2 weeks. This still represents 11 days to cover at current volumes..
From Stocktwits:
I agree with you regarding why they didn't move quicker if it was their intent to fight this anyway which it seems it was. The Chinese reports, well unless you speak Chinese I can't really trust what GEO translated so hard to say what the reporter actually said and how they said it. Yes they can't get a listing at under a dollar I believe. They can fix this easily if they wanted to by bidding up the share price to the desired level.
Maybe the audit wasn't ready to be filed in time because they didn't get behind it early enough? The only comment from the two who resigned of note is that they, LPH refused to initiate an external independent audit. Since then it seems they are doing just that reading between the lines.
A reasoned opinion. You asked why the audit committee memebers resigned. Here is the answer in their own words:
Love the volume today, price does not concern me but the volume is important if there truly is news around the corner as I suspect there is.
I take this increased volume as potential for news, shorts holding it down. I am of the view we may get something of note this week or next....
I agree your numbers could be more in line, I was trying to be conservative.
If you look at Tobinators analysis, the range of future royalty totals $690 million to $1.2 billion is a reasonable expectation. You have to discount these amounts because money today is worth more than in the future. The time-frame is only a few years so there should not be a huge discount. Also it is not in Google's interest to have another company look at their books every quarter to determine the proper royalty. Despite their bluster of filing appeals etc it is also in their interest to license Lang's invention, compensate Vringo for past use and move forward. The amount is absolutely inconsequential to them but this would be the best outcome. There might be some who question the message here, but the message is that Google has fought tooth and nail , even if they settle and in my opinion will not encourage "patent trolls" from attacking Google unless they have a very strong case. From Vringo's and us (shareholders) perspective, money in hand allows them to monetize their portfolio more aggressively and that is what they want to do. This is win/win. Will it happen, I don't know but this scenario is the best for everyone my opinions only obviously.
Very good report thanks. What is important to remember is that Googles revenues are estimates only, there is a high probability that the actual numbers are higher therefore more money to Vringo, unless of course Google comes to their sense and makes Vringo a reasonable offer($300-$400 million) should do it.
Not sure what the rush is to sell here. I have no shares to sell BTW. Just looking at the facts , they will trade OTCBB after April 1st there is more visibility there than grey markets. Also judging by the conduct of Carnes, what is the likelihood that any of his "evidence" that he has against Longwei will be accepted without having a forensic analyst review the "tapes" pictures etc to ensure they are not doctored. Actually both parties are subject to that. Carnes has a history of doctoring videos according to the FBI. The videos presented by GEO are time-lapsed and compressed with no date stamp other than at the edge which indicates doctoring. GEO said they were sending the other 46 days worth of tapes to the SEC and exchange. why didn't they ? If they did the exchange is not relying on them as no mention was made. Presumably if Longwei had two independent auditors and submitted their financials in time they would not have de-listed, which means that Geo's threat is bogus. If they know the tapes they have are doctored they won't offer them as evidence. Should be an interesting trial, I wish I could see it live.
One of the founding partners has been on many financial programs as an expert securities lawyer
What it will take is a victory in court, audited financial statements, compliance with all NYSE listing requirements to name a few points. One of the important points is if they can prove their defamation case against Carnes et al will this not help their case for re-listing assuming they can provide independently audited financial statements regarding their business?
You are not getting anywhere near $2 if these things don't happen. I am not saying that any of this will either but I do see a glimmer given Carnes involvement. I personally did not know of his involvement until I read the defamation suit. In it he basically admits to Longwei's lawyers through emails he is involved.
You should care about Jon Carnes aka Alfred Little because Longwei's lawsuit is predicated on his involvement with Geo Investing. Because this guy is already in a lot of trouble and by the research I have found will do anything against a short position he initiates including doctoring photos even perjuring himself which he did in the Silvercorp case. This case revolves around Little, to the extent his track record will be used against him this bolsters Longwei's case and chances for re-listing if this company is legit increase dramatically.
Jon Carnes' activities , could face 13 years in prison, he is a fugitive, this is the person behind GEO's article . Does he inspire a great deal of integrity?
Read my previous message about Jon Carnes his activities and how he could face 13 years in prison, he is a fugitive, this is the person behind GEO's article . Does he inspire a great deal of integrity?