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Now that seriously would have been inside information!
Isn't that one of the reasons stocks on other exchanges get delisted?
It appears there are quite a few of those on both sides of the argument!
Excuse me! Everything happens in all markets!
People with large amounts of money manipulate everything! The rules, lending, borrowing, penalties, interest rates , money supplies! You name it someone is trying to manipulate it to their advantage.
I compare everything that happens on all markets. The crimes are the same! It often takes years to find out how things were played out!
Dendreon is another example that went against all reason.
Approval turned down after boards recommended passage. ( boards by the way who were generally followed)
Everything happens on all the exchanges IMO.
Sometimes even you have to admit the get shorty idea is true! If you don't think so, here is the link I provided earlier for the Taser settlement.
Settlement as in they had to pay because it did indeed happen and share holders did suffer damages.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-29/taser-settles-lawsuit-against-financial-firms-over-short-selling.html
I'm not saying it is happening here, because neither I nor anyone else can say for sure.
It's always amazing what we find out about after the fact.
GL to all longs.
For all those that say there are no agendas here answer this, Why are there so many posting that have no interest in this stock?
You'd have to have one piss poor life to spend all your time arguing on a message board with no interest! IMO LOL
Not pointed at any individual just a point for all those that show up day in and day out
There is a BIG difference when one is a real photo of a real place and the other is total deception!
Makes a lot of sense lol. I'm pretty sure we're going to be shipping from Mexico regardless of what the economy of china is doing.(since that is where our mine is) I could be wrong though. Maybe a stiff hurricane or some sort of earthquake might shift all our ore closer to china.
China with zero growth could eat up everything CWRN could produce at full production well into the future!
What new investors? LOL
I'm pretty sure most shares trading are being done so by people that have been here for a while. ( or people they know)
We all know not much will be done by the general public until more issues are settled.
We also know (from experience) how fast the price could rise if those issues are settled to our liking!
STILL WE OWN!
I think congress knows exactly what type of scams are run at every level! Don't you believe that many of the people that write the laws already know how to argue against them when they are written?
Why do you think most laws are so watered down by the time they become law?
Why do you think they are so vague when written?
Wasn't the law written to to allow members of congress to trade on inside information a scam of major proportions all by itself?
Did they care at all what might happen to average share holders if they were allowed to trade on information they KNEW would affect the stock before others could react.
IN case you haven't noticed, CONGRESS ITSELF IS A SCAM! They align themselves with outside interests while inside congress to assure sweetheart deals for life.
They have portfolios that they have no idea what their holdings are. (are you serious) I'm sure if you own a bond fund or any other fund you have no idea what the components are. LOL
Another word to describe congress would be LOOPHOLE!
Janice- but isn't it amazing what happens to those supposedly easy convictions when enough money is put down to secure the right lawyers.
One thing to keep in mind-- congress is made up of a large percentage of lawyers. Lawyers have an uncanny way of using the laws other lawyers write to their own advantage.
I'd be willing to bet almost the entire country thought both OJ and Roger Clemons were guilty as hell. I know those prosecuting thought so! Most thought OJ would commit suicide in the bronco. Turns outy he was innocent.(yeh right lol) Congress themselves went after Rocket--oops innocent.
I didn't think for a minute either one would get off but what do I know. Funny things happen when you are tried by a jury of your peers instead of the justice system representatives.
If we aren't "concerned" with what has or hasn't taken place we deserve to be kicked in the nuts. (I'm sure Janice would volunteer).LOL
We are in the world series of poker right now. You don't know what cards the others are holding, ( unfortunately) but you know if you are reading things right the pay off could be huge!
We could each fold at any time but where would we be then?
Good luck balihi and I will always thank you for the concern you showed me!
You are right, there are way more concerns than what you point out. If there weren't this stock would be much more expensive and we would all be dancing around on someones very large boat!
I myself like DevilDolphin said feel any meaningful development is still at probably a year away. You know my situation so NO ONE could use this more than myself!
The type of reward we are all seeking will only come if we have correctly made a very ballsy investment!
It has been interesting though!
That PR was from about the time I started following this company.
To answer your question, we don't know if they are following it now, will follow it in the future or ever intended to follow it in the past.
We do know their ability to reach those goals is definitely improving.
As for the cautious approach, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LOL
We all know we invested in a pink sheet company-- there is nothing cautious about that situation!
I am realistic about whether things will ever happen! I do like what is taking place at the mine though!
Balihi- I agree with you to an extent.
My whole goal for this company is the right steps at the right time!
The key objective for the company CEO is really to maximize share holder value.
To me CWRN is going through the process of overcoming past mistakes with a chance to hit a home run for share holders. Why not do both?
In my opinion, CWRN is headed on the best of all paths if they are actually completely legitimate. Why do I say that?
While the time lines have been screwed up no doubt, the path laid out is not a bad one if it can be followed over time. The whole process that was laid out needs to be followed one step at a time instead of rushed.
Think about what matters long term! The number one thing that matters is the mine. It's been a long haul actually getting the equipment that is needed to run the mine and expand it effectively. The revenue numbers that were forecast were done way too early! The equipment that is needed to have even a remote possibility for reaching those numbers is just now reaching the level needed. A great deal of overburden still needs to be removed now. The difference is they can now produce at the same time they are removing that overburden. They could not do both until the equipment level allowed that.
To me the next step is not financials if maximum value is desired. The second step should not happen until all loan debt and needed equipment is paid for. I would prefer transparency NOT take place even at this point. Why? Again think of the long term goal!
I am in the camp that says the early financials would not look that great until they progress to a certain point! It costs a ton for everything that is going on! At this point, after maybe the eighth or ninth shipment (even later if needed) I would now announce the start of a share buyback. Retail would now have to compete with a company that has 20-40 million dollars available. If longs really do have as many shares as we think, what would that do to the price?
After the announced buyback and a few more shipments, I would then completely play my hand! A share buyback would mean there is extra money available to do it. The revenue stream at this point should be continuous. The balance sheet should now look pretty good. Showing financials at this point would be one of the last remaining hurdles to the share price.
If all this took place in this manner, what do you think the share price would be? This would be the time to evaluate moving to a higher exchange. The stock price would be much higher, revenue would be continuous, partnerships would be solidified, financials would be available for all to view! These are all the building blocks needed for a great fundamental footing!
At this time you may only need a very small reverse split to meet any price requirement for whatever exchange they would like to move to. By now the "street" could no longer ignore what has taken place with the company. A higher exchange would bring about the possibility of institutional investors. That scenario would again give another boost to the price!
At this point the company can decide between expansion and growth or a possible dividend. Either course would again boost the share price. Think where we would be at this point!
This is all my opinion, but it is based in solid business fundamentals done at the RIGHT time. Something we have all been waiting for.
Any MEANINGFUL comments?
I agree with you completely DevilDolphin! If current financials get filed at any time this stock will run like a mother------.
All short range ideas will disappear because those in for the long haul will control a major portion of the shares. Why would anyone sell at that point regardless of entry?
A continuous growing and expanding company will be fun to follow!
And holding shares in that company will be in a word
SWEEEEEET!
balihi- no problem- I know what side of the fence you're on! As always I appreciate the effort any long has done on this board over the last year and a half.
It's also funny to read how some scream for honesty and transparency from the company while they themselves play the opposite game.
It was impressive to read a post from even the staunchest opponent saying they really had no proof of any evidence to the contrary regarding CWRN.
We all have our opinions about Bob and CWRN, but until I am given facts to the contrary I will continue to believe we will all be in great shape at some point in the not too distant future.
I think things at the mine are progressing in an impressive manner.
Even the fact that our permitting process seemed to have been completed ahead of some of the so called established companies in Mexico.
Good luck to all the good guys!
Thanks for the honest reply!
We do disagree on one point though. I don't believe hardly any companies actually follow the rules. Everyone bends the rules as far as they can to serve their own purpose. Over time, that rule bending has become rule breaking. Everyone simply hopes they haven't broken them bad enough to get caught.
Many don't even mind getting caught since they can simply admit to no wrong doing and pay penalties that don't even take away the advantage of breaking the rules. It's pretty hard to stop people from breaking the rules when it's profitable to do so even when you get caught.
They should have to pay double the ill gotten gains as well as suffer bans.
The problem is neither side really wants effective enforcement to take place. It would be very easy to straighten things out if that was really what was desired.
Why do empty shells exist to be recycled over and over?
Why can companies trade without filings?
Why are there such discrepancies from state to state as to what is required of companies?
Why does such a thing as an off shore tax shelter exist?
I believe people post pictures multiple times for the same reason posters ask the same questions that can't be answered by a message board over and over again.
With all the DD your group does I would tend to believe a paper trail regarding payments made by Bao Steel to someone would have shown up by now. While I understand doubt due to the circumstances can anyone shown things are not as most longs here believe?
From all the recent prosecutions involving "big board" companies it appears the stock exchange is nothing more than a playground where no one follows the rules.
so shorties operate inside the law HUH
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With all due respect, at least shorties operate within the law
Maybe you should check the settlement the shorters had to pay in the Taser case!
It appears many don't play this investment game the way they are supposed to!
JP Morgan being investigated for manipulating power prices.
Barclays being investigated for manipulating the finance market.
Glaxo Smith Kline paying a huge settlement for fraud.
The level that Bob has been charged at can't begin to compare to the big board companies.
But those are the good companies LOL
Large cap companies commit fraud on a mega scale regularly but no one is prosecuted.
The only quest is for penalties. Why is that?
Pharma Giant GSK to Pay $3B in Largest Ever Healthcare Fraud Case
Through this whole discussion, we have now come full circle. You said you didn't follow my original analogy.
My point was this.
The SEC wants FINRA (sorry for the government reference) to publish data for all exchanges that it knows will be misinterpreted by a lot of people. (as you have stated many times on many boards) That misleading causes a lot of people to reach conclusions about what might happen to share prices in the future. (short squeeze)
Bob was accused of preparing misleading information to unfairly support a fake rise in the share price.
Isn't that exactly the same process taking place when the daily numbers are used to represent a short squeeze that is never going to take place?
One is being done by a company CEO. The other is being done by FINRA at the direction of the SEC. One a crime, the other the way the SEC wants it?
I will wait to judge Bob when all the facts are in.
On the other hand the SEC wants to offer misleading information through FINRA. WHY? Who benefits? Someone does or it wouldn't happen! It would only take one directive to stop it if it didn't benefit someone.
I agree with the bi monthly data although I dispute it's accuracy. Data in any form in government is always used for something and is usually revised at a later date.
Other than the intent to mislead why would they even put out the daily numbers?
If they can only be interpreted by certain groups, why not just offer them to those groups? (such as level 3)
If they can't be interpreted due to limitations in the system, why show them at all?
Companies are not the ones that I'm thinking would want that data. (unless there was legal action)
Traders would want to be able to follow time lines in order to make accurate judgements.
Just like level 3 access would make most traders that could interpret it a lot better.
Just like insider trading by congress should be a crime so should with holding access to any type of information.
Everyone should have access to any available information at any time.
With the ability of super computers today showing any leg of even millions of trades done millions of times would not be hard.
Every trade has a time stamp and until that trade has been completed on both ends the same time stamp could be used as a reference.
Most of those that scream for transparency would say a business that intentionally operates in a manner that is not transparent is hiding something or has an agenda. True?
Why do FINRA or the SEC operate that way?
Any trade regardless of how it is executed is basically a math problem with a time line assigned to it.
Whether it be a MM making a market, a long buying shares or a person shorting shares, makes no difference to the equation. Lumping trades together also makes no difference to the end result.
The net effect is buys equal sells even if they are being temporarily "held" by a MM.
All of these things would be easy to understand with reference numbers and transparency. You could see when a market was being made and when both long trades and shorts were executed and more importantly finalized.
Isn't this transparency what everyone shouts for from "stinky pinks"
A paper trail of every leg of a trade should be very easy to follow whether it takes 10 seconds or two weeks to occur!
I understand the legs of a trade and you have never seen me post any comments regarding short positions. The fact remains as you yourself posted, the numbers will mislead people that read them.
Why would any agency whose purpose it is to provide legitimacy to the markets intentionally offer misleading information?
You would think that practice would stop if it didn't benefit some one wouldn't you?
Why isn't it a concern of groups like yours (instead of something you dismiss) that they continue to mislead?
Janice- And you wonder why everyone is doubting the legitimacy of SEC actions?
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Good question. I asked it when I called back in February 2010, because it was obvious that many people would misinterpret it.
I was told that the SEC thought it was a good idea.
So the SEC when asked thinks it is a good idea and in every ones best interest to post totally misleading information.
Isn't creating misleading information what Bob is currently being prosecuted for?
So really the SEC wants to be the only one that can offer misleading information. If they do it is a good idea. There is a reason for it and that reason is the same as always---- someone makes money from the misleading they do. It simply benefits the ones they want it to.
WHO ARE THEY?
Janice- maybe the problem comes from the difference in these two statements. If read I believe the difference is easy to understand. They do not even have the same premise.
Oh, and it's way easier to manipulate a stock up than down.
"it's easier to persuade people to sell than to persuade them to buy"
Regardless of if they want to, or whether they have served their purpose, or any other reason you have stated yourself--
APS plays do tend to crash several times. That's because APS has conditioned its followers to expect that. So they dump at the first sign of a pullback and buy back in later. In the meanwhile, APS's clients are dumping way, way more.
So the dumps are fast? Of course they are: everybody knows he's playing a pump and dump, and wants to be the first out the door.
If they put out an alert to sell, it would crash in seconds! FACT!
(my point)
Sure
(your answer)
YOUR POINT
But let's consider the example of a stock that has some appeal, and popularity with a core group of shareholders. CWRN would be one of those. People can adduce all sorts of valid reasons for them to give some thought to their loyalty, but do they do that?
So I offer other examples of companies that have way more appeal
I have watched RMBS move as people in court have provided opinions as to what the trial outcome might be.
I had a stock crash when information was put out that reimbursement rates from insurance companies might change.
Nowhere in your point do I see pennies mentioned- just another blanket statement.
And finally
When they decide it's payday, the stock drops like a rock. Nobody talked them into selling: that was the plan.
The first half of your statement completely supports my point. All of the examples support how fast manipulation CAN make a stock drop!
The second half of your statement alludes to talking (persuading) to buy. That was not the original statement at all as seen above.
I used pump and dumps as an example because they are by there very nature manipulations. Hell I thought this was an easy point to make.
What was I thinking?
Janice - due to the different wording in your last statement it is no longer the same argument.
You have yourself offered examples as to how easy it would be to CRASH a stock. Some examples are not what some would want to do, but they do point out which would be easier to do.
On the big board the same things happen even erroneously. Some media outlet or other source puts out information about wrong doing that may prove to be false. The stock crashes as people bail while they are trying to find out if the information is correct.
I have watched RMBS move as people in court have provided opinions as to what the trial outcome might be.
I had a stock crash when information was put out that reimbursement rates from insurance companies might change.
There are many ways to crash a stock. Some are actionable some are not.
Janice That is exactly my point. As you say it may rise for three to five days only to crash immediately. Which happens easier? Any chart will show which happens quicker.
The reason is not needed. The action supports the fact as to the manipulation direction being easier.
Janice- to further illustrate how wrong this statement is think of the FACTS that you and others provide on other boards!
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Oh, and it's way easier to manipulate a stock up than down. A quick look at any pumpadump of a worthless stock is a good illustration of that.
The reason for a pump and dump is so insiders can unload shares. FACT
Many times the price paid for those huge amount of shares is almost nothing, FACT PROVIDED OFTEN BY DD BOARD!
If maximum profit is desired by insiders, shares can only be dumped at the rate the pump causes them to be bought up. FACT!
The general public (retail) has to buy shares at current levels--- demand. The insiders paid virtually nothing for the shares so they could sell some or all at any price for a profit! The insiders have many times the shares that retail are willing to buy at any given moment. (usually)
The insiders could crash the stock at any moment by dumping ALL the shares they hold. FACT! It would be detrimental to them at times if they could sell for more but the statement is accurate!
The facts the DD board itself provides show the above statement is completely false! The fact that the stocks don't always act that way due to the money the insiders are making does not take away from the facts.
Crashing a stock at any time is very easy especially pump and dumps! The current example would be APS working overtime to get it's pick to stay even or a little ahead from the alert price. If they put out an alert to sell, it would crash in seconds! FACT!
FUTURE1
Janice- this is a statement you have made multiple times that I totally disagree with.
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Oh, and it's way easier to manipulate a stock up than down. A quick look at any pumpadump of a worthless stock is a good illustration of that.
Even with the huge plays of APS and others it doesn't work that way and the charts of any of them would prove it. It may take days or weeks for the front loading, the spam email campaigns and so on to take place. The crash at multiple times takes only minutes and just the thought that the sell off has begun. Any information supporting that thought and it's all over!
Think about it! The pumping and momentum generated take at least a little time. The dump happens so fast even stop loss trades can't happen at the level they are set at because the action takes place too fast.
It's easy to prove one happens a great deal faster than the other! NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Well let's see what they come up with. I'll be interested to see what he has shipped during about the same time CWRN's mine has been operating. Always willing to learn!
Let's see, it happened for the first ship which by the way is what the PR was from. It happened for the second ship, but it didn't happen for the third ship?
It's amazing how ore can just show up at the port but not be trucked there. Logic can be really hard to figure out some times LOL.
Maybe you could show me what other company has delivered ore to the port. You know how every other company is so transparent so it should only take you a couple of minutes to find a PR from a company other than CWRN. I'll wait.
Is this the direction CWRN is trying to take with Baosteel?
Home>News>Content
FMG Starts Iron Ore Supply to Baosteel
Author:Baosteel Resources Co., Ltd. Add Time:2008-07-02
In the morning of May 29, as Chairman Xu Lejiang of Baosteel Group Corporation gave the order, the Hengshan ship laden with 170,000t of iron ore supplied by Australia's Fortescue Metals Group (FMG) started unloading in Majishan Port, marking that FMG has become an important iron ore supplier to Baosteel.
Western Australian Planning and Infrastructure Minister Mac Tiernan, Australian Ambassador to China Geoff Raby, Consul General (acting) of Australia in Shanghai Ou jia'ni, FMG Chief Executive Forrest, Vice President of Baosteel Group Corporation Dai Zhihao, Vice President of Baoshan Iron & Steel Co., Ltd. Zhu Junsheng, and other more than 100 people from Western Australian Government, Baosteel and Shengsi County attended the ceremony to celebrate the arrival of FMG's first iron ore shipment.
FMG is one of the fastest developing Australian listed companies in recent years and an emerging supplier in the world's iron ore industry. It has become an important force among the world's iron ore suppliers following Vale of Brazil, and Australia's BHP Billiton and RioTinto. Now the company possesses affluent iron ore resources in Pilbara, north of Western Australia, with more than 1 billion tons of proven iron ore resources, and it is expected that its output will reach 100 million tons by 2010. In February last year, Baosteel Resources Co., Ltd. and FMG signed a 10-year iron ore cooperation agreement. As FMG expands its output, it will supply 20 million tons of iron ore to Baosteel every year. On May 18, Hengshan ship laden with the FMG's first shipment of iron ore departed Port Hedland Australia and arrived at Baosteel's Majishan Port on May 28 after 10 days' voyage.
During the ceremony, Mac Tiernan and Forrest thanked Baosteel for the energetic support to FMG and expressed that the cooperation between Baosteel and FMG is not only conducive to the development of the two companies, but also plays an active role in promoting the exchange and cooperation between Chinese and Australian business communities.
On behalf of Baosteel, Dai Zhihao welcomed the smooth arrival of FMG's first iron ore shipment to Majishan Port. He said that the arrival of FMG's first iron ore shipment represents a milestone for the cooperation between the two parties. The upstream and downstream industrial chain is a closely related and mutually dependent community, Baosteel and FMG shall actively explore the reciprocal and win-win cooperation that is future oriented and keep expanding the field of collaboration to combat risks in the market and pursue greater development hand in hand.
Before the ceremony to celebrate the arrival of FMG's first iron ore shipment, Xu Lejiang met with Forrest and had exchange on the development of further cooperation.