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There's likely $50M-$75M OR LESS coming back...
...per the WMILT QSR.
http://www.wmitrust.com/wmitrust/document/8817600170728000000000001
...the "M" stands for millions.
...if all asset estimates are achieved (the tax refund refiling with the pertinent historical support data being mined by A&M, which has retained former WAMU tax personnel; which does not appear to be DONE by September 5th BIG PAYDAY ASSERTED), and all 'claims do not prevail THOSE ARE NOT DONE BY September 5th either.
...so.
...the assertions, theories, guesstimates of billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions, almost a trillion etc. are not sourced by any supportable reference at all, by any party in interest, in over 8 years, the adversarial US government agencies, the largest bank in the world, the largest hedge funds in the world, or their professionals paid over a billion in fees, including equity and counsel (i.e., Mike the forensic EC Chair and the great and powerful O...Susman)..
...WHY?
...simple, simply nonsensical.
...the WMI Liquidating Trust is the ONLY source to a reasonably prudent person, IMO.
...the FDIC receivership has published its' Settlement Agreement with Deutsche Bank TRUSTS (i.e., the owners/investors of the original $165B in MBS SOLD as sponsored by WMB and subs), as WORKED OUT BY THE WMB SR. BONDS "STEERING COMMITTEE" (i.e., yep, that's all folks; they share with DB TRUSTS in the """""remains""""" of the WMB receivership assets.
...the FDIC receivership has agreed to RECONCILIATION, RECONCILIATION, RECONCILIATION with JPM to CLOSE OUT THE PURCHASE AND ASSUMPTION AGREEMENT; they will be PAID $600M+ (note, they will NOT BE PAYING "BOOK VALUE" in order to use the CAPITAL LOSSES by March of 2017 guaranteed???? Ooooops; not paying $24B BOOK VALUE (of course, 32-8); rather, getting PAID $600m+ (go figure??).
...Susman Godgrey isn't working for equity (hasn't since Effective Date) (and isn't on FB either; they are looking in to who is doing the "impression").
...Chairman Mike is still 'tooling his mediated deal that was fair and reasonable to him (thinking a bit, if he really "put it" to the hedge funds, why would they keep him on the BOD?????).
...must be supported by the 144 hedge funds (but why?).
...oh, and the assets are really OUTSIDE of the bankruptcy (never mentioned by ANYONE (i.e., party in interest)) or in ANY COURT DOCUMENT "ever."
Agreed, non-releasing parties (good decision)...
...will get none of the $50-$75 MILLION (MAX, if all goes well regarding WMILT asset recoveries and claims settlement).
...that will go to the those holders WHO PROVIDED THE FULL RELEASES.
...for such return.
Aaron, look to the past, not future...
...there was an entire bankruptcy of the debtors through a confirmed plan, and now there is a residual liquidating trust wrapping up.
...here is a link to the court documents (12,417 so far).
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/list/3853
...here is a link to the WMILT.
http://www.wmitrust.com/WMITrust
...there is no utterance of $1 from either source asserted in the billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions and now, again, almost a trillion.
...WHY?
...simple, simply nonsense.
...also, as an FYI, this is the WMIH, a NASDAQ traded public company, forum where shareholder are 'here to exchange relevant commentary.
...comparatively, escrows represent a monitoring of the WMILT reporting of the eroding $50-$75M residual that 'might ''come back if '''everything works out ''''to the good.
...which, of course, I hope works out for those who gave the releases to JPM, FDIC, AAOC, etc. for such '''''return.
No change, $65B, good luck with legal challenge...
...it will cost more than the 'very hard to raise $1,500 for the shareholder representation at the shareholder meeting second preceding.
No, fwh3334zeke, A&M and others aren't bringing...
...anything.
...back to escrows.
...if 99.99999999% of reasonably prudent investors know it (actually, 100% do, there is another unrelated population).
There's likely $50M-$75M coming back...
...per the WMILT QSR.
http://www.wmitrust.com/wmitrust/document/8817600170728000000000001
...the "M" stands for millions.
...if all asset estimates are achieved (the tax refund refiling with the pertinent historical support data being mined by A&M, which has retained former WAMU tax personnel), and all 'claims do not prevail.
...so.
...the assertions, theories, guesstimates of billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions, almost a trillion etc. are not sourced by any supportable reference at all, by any party in interest, in over 8 years, the adversarial US government agencies, the largest bank in the world, the largest hedge funds in the world, or their professionals paid over a billion in fees, including equity and counsel.
...WHY?
...simple, simply nonsensical.
...the WMI Liquidating Trust is the ONLY source to a reasonably prudent person, IMO.
The GSA states that JPM is only “servicing loans...
...for payment to WMILT on behalf of WMI” as per Section 2.19.
Yep, fully disclosed on the P&AA, reading it...
...it available to everyone on the receivership website.
...comments in RED.
hotmeat, in a consolidated financial, the parent...
...is making disclosures on a consolidated basis.
...the same when making topical comments on proposed regulations or accounting standards.
...in substance and form, however, WMI never issued MBS and this has been noted in court documents.
...since WMI never issued such, there is NO SAFE HARBOR.
...and, just as an FYI, the SAFE HARBOR applies to the mortgages technically sold (FASB) to "protect the securities investors who are buying them in process."
...there were NONE at WMB when seized that were in process.
...there were NO PROSPECTUS 'out there, in process, at seizure.
...and that is WMB.
...WMI, again, NEVER participated in such.
hotmeat, agreed, that has nothing to do with...
...the bankruptcy, and there are no such assets 'coming back.
...thanks.
...fully disclosed in the P&AA and recorded by JPM, audited, SEC filed since 2008.
...not raised by ONE CREDENTIALED PROFESSIONAL in 8+ years by any party in interest, paid over a billion in fees, including equity.
...WHY?
...simply simple.
...such doesn't exist at WMI or WMIIC or WMILT.
hotmeat, "portfolio loans" sold, MBS are not...
...portfolio loans.
...in fact, they are no longer loan assets of the sponsor bank that sold and securitized them.
...those are gone, to the owners/investors of the MBS.
...the retained interests (very small) are valued by such sponsor (WMB, the bank or its subs; each and all of which seized and sold to JPM), are RECORDED AS ASSETS.
...if investment grade, as investments.
...if not, as trading assets.
...AGAIN ASSETS RECORDED ARE NOT "hidden," "secret," "off balance" or in "safe harbor."
...ON THE BOOKS, seized and sold.
hotmeat Friday, 08/25/17 11:25:00 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485675
Post #
485701
of 485708 Go
Wasn't it claimed, repeatedly, for years that WAMU's loans were all sold to JPM by the FDIC for $1.88 Billion???
Therefore, with this admission it must be apparent by now that those past claims have ZERO CREDIBILITY!!!
hotmeat, agreed, that has nothing to do with...
...the bankruptcy, and there are no such assets 'coming back.
...thanks.
...fully disclosed in the P&AA and recorded by JPM, audited, SEC filed since 2008.
...not raised by ONE CREDENTIALED PROFESSIONAL in 8+ years by any party in interest, paid over a billion in fees, including equity.
...WHY?
...simply simple.
...such doesn't exist at WMI or WMIIC or WMILT.
hotmeat Friday, 08/25/17 06:49:40 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485685
Post #
485690
of 485707 Go
Again conflating issues that have nothing to do with the bankruptcy.....pathetic really.
Quote...."Washington Mutual would like to take this opportunity to comment on the Exposure Draft ("ED") referenced above. Based on our consolidated assets at June 30, 2005, Washington Mutual, Inc. (the "Company") was the largest savings institution and one of the largest residential mortgage loan originators and mortgage loan servicers in the nation. The Company actively sells mortgage loans and servicing rights in securitization transactions and retains servicing responsibilities as well as senior and subordinated interests.
Dude, how many times is it theorized that WMI...
...held retained and held senior interest in MBS securities.
...without any SUPPORT at all?
...simple fact.
Desperado90 Friday, 08/25/17 05:57:30 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485675
Post #
485680
of 485683 Go
Dude, how many times do you have to be told and shown that WMI retained and held senior interest in the securities.
This is simple and the facts are not debatable.
That's right, JPM couldn't buy them because...
...WMB, WMAAC and WMMSC (get this) SOLD AND SECURITIZED THEM; i.e., didn't own them.
...that's why NEVER MENTIONED ONCE BY ANY PARTY IN INTEREST, WITH A BILLION DOLLARS OF PROFESSIONALS, THE US GOVERNMENT, THE LARGEST BANK IN THE WORLD, THE LARGEST HEDGE FUNDS IN THE WORLD, and Mike Willingham and Susman (identified formally as 'for equity).
...as they argued over $4B deposit and tax refunds?
...WHY?
...MBS are based on mortgages in pools, series and tranches; i.e., sold and securitized ~ they are GONE.
...they don't come back.
Bill48 Friday, 08/25/17 05:54:02 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485675
Post #
485679
of 485681 Go
Isn't this great !!!!.....Investigator Bill Paatalo questions the practice of using “Substitution of Trustees”. Paatalo points out that WMAAC and WMMSC have never been dissolved and still exist. Although the loans did not go through the FDIC, Chase executes assignments from the FDIC in order to substitute trustees. In this article Paatalo demonstrates that JPMorgan Chase did not purchase ownership of $615 billion in Washington Mutal loans in three simple steps.
"The US Senate Sub-Committee (Levin–Coburn Report)...
...reveals in its findings of fact that WaMu sold and securitized at least $615B of residential mortgage loans through its subsidiaries “WaMu Asset Acceptance Corporation” and “Washington Mutual Mortgage Securities Corporation” who acted as “Depositors” in the securitization transactions."
...note.
..."sold and securitized."
...i.e, gone, to the owners of the securities.
...great fact by Bill Paatalo, actual MBS investigator, referenced in the article.
...and does not note $1 (no $15B-$25B of retained interests either).
...thanks.
...note the JPM subsidiaries (former WMB) referenced.
...EOS 'our loans EOS 'coming back.
...thanks.
Thank you also.
Thank you.
UncleBo, so the CEO uses a hypothetical...
...about a potential RS (I didn't know that, so thank you).
...it's OK.
...a shareholder cautions about a hypothetical RS, after an 8K is issued regarding retention of a 3rd party for the stated alt-financing and possible restructuring and/or refinancing of the SB's reasons, and it's "to scare?"
...just a bit inconsistent?
...IMO, I don't want KKR to get MORE SHARES for LE$$ as a REWARD for 'failure to perform on its' strategic investment.
UncleBo Thursday, 08/24/17 04:27:28 PM
Re: AZCowboy post# 485555
Post #
485584
of 485586 Go
AZ,
The mention of RS was a "hypothetical" mentioned by the CEO at the shareholder meeting when pressed for an answer on "what are we going to do if NASDAQ wants to de-list the co". Now if someone is using this to scare people that is not good...
I thought a more appropriate question would be, how did the company meet the requirements for listing with some NOLs and a run off captive re-insurance ?!
Uncle Bo
"IF" there is a renegotiation of Series B...
...regarding the conversion range.
...as part of any "restructuring or refinancing" such.
...was the OP.
...not the existing Series B conversion range of $1.75-$2.25.
...as part of the discussion of the 8K as to 'references to restructuring or refinancing the Series B Preferred Stock.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000156459017017911/wmih-ex991_6.htm
Accordingly, we formed the Finance Committee, comprised solely of independent directors, to explore potential financing and refinancing alternatives, including the potential restructuring or refinancing of the Series B Preferred Stock.”
The "predictions" about escrows? None...
...have come true.
...same "predictability" in such regard.
AZCowboy Thursday, 08/24/17 11:47:54 AM
Re: None
Post #
485555
of 485561 Go
~ Now, A WMIH - RS ? Scare Tactic ? ~
I was wondering by who, and when that load' of ?, ... would be proffered' ... and again, I could have predicted by who' ... that ? Is absolutely ridiculous ... (predictable as well as nonsense)
AZ
bkshadow
...and it doesn't even take into consideration if they determine they will need to effect a RS if the PPS hovers too long around a buck.
BBANBOB, never said this is a POS...
...merely stated that, with a significantly lower conversion range for the Series B preferred, it will generate MORE SHARES FOR KKR (and other SB's) for LESS; giving them a higher group control % of WMIH compared to "existing common shareholders."
...run the numbers @ $1.25 and down @ $ .25 intervals, calculate the converted shares of the SB's at those various conversion levels and compare to the existing issued and outstanding commons.
...if it takes place, it is dilution of existing common shareholders.
...so, reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
...and it doesn't even take into consideration if they determine they will need to effect a RS if the PPS hovers too long around a buck.
BBANBOB Thursday, 08/24/17 09:52:56 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 485532
Post #
485543
of 485552 Go
KKR wants "more for less."
...neither is good, IMO.
REALLYYYYYYYYYYYYY ???????????
Why would they even want more for LESS IF THIS IS A POS WORTHLESS shell????????????
Dude, not so; the new conversion range is...
...not even 'out yet.
...and if one factors "in" the Series B current conversion to common shares at the bottom of the range, adds in the warrants, the Series A and prior holdings of Tepper (changed) and Greywolf, it already has been massive.
...so, almost in a "DRYS-like manner" (but obviously to a much lesser extent) the carryforward common shareholders would be essentially diluted "massively" by a downward adjustment of the Series B conversion (if that is what happens).
...again, it has been postulated endlessly, "KKR" gets the deals done; so why is a 3rd party required to arrange for alt-financing or renegotiation of the SB's?
...either KKR is letting go, or KKR wants "more for less."
...neither is good, IMO.
...comments in RED.
Desperado90 Wednesday, 08/23/17 09:49:22 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485492
Post #
485517
of 485531 Go
[color=red][/color]
Dude chill.
Even with the negotiated B shares, they would receive about 40 - 50% more shares at the new strike price.
The talk of massive solution is alarmist and distortion of the facts at best. Although it has not been determined if there is a new conversion range that would cause a 50% dilution, a 50% dilution is really not a "positive" for existing shareholders; it would alarm most stocks and be factual not distorted.
Sept 5th approaches and then back to Collyer's court to dismiss DC action and pending cases. Fantasy, nothing to do with the WMILT or former WMI shareholders directly or indirectly; just like the TPS, the March 2017 CAPITAL LOSS JPM to pay book value, the DB Trusts,
etc. etc. etc.
Then the FDIC-R can start closing out the receivership. Again, fantasy. There is NOTHING at the receivership to 'come back.
So, I opened positions in JPMC & DB' ... just in case' ...
Now TPS securities are 'the pot of gold...
...although JMW Opinion states otherwise (I'm thinking JMW is a reasonably prudent person to state such, no party in interest has prevailed otherwise).
...and the escrow markers are now NOT related to WMILT (boy, that's a new one).
...quite interesting (but, is it imaginary).
...as was the reconciliation, reconciliation that was guaranteed to take place years ago (DIDN'T HAPPEN).
...as was the "must use the CAPITAL LOSS by March 2017" that was guaranteed to take place this past March when JPM had to pay 'book value (ooops, didn't happen, JPM didn't have to pay MORE, they now THEY ARE GETTING PAID).
...as was the Deutsche Bank, as Trustee for the owners of the $165B MBS, was guaranteed to come back after the CA Probate Court order (DIDN'T HAPPEN).
...mineral rights.
...bank branches.
...land under bank branches.
...over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
...result?
...what was disclosed (to earn the RELEASES) 'was it.
...alt-theories to such, 0.000% material realization.
...in the meantime, the BOD sets up a KKR 'protective or 'defensive 8K that "they need help."
...if KKR is 'gone, it is genuine,
...if KKR is not 'gone, the massive DILUTION from a renegotiated Series B is 'not colorable by retention of the 3rd party advisors.
...and that dilution would be 'massive.
...hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Yep. CYA for BOD. "They told us" to...
...do it.
...'they being the "financial advisors" retained to tell them what they already want to do?
...if there is a massive dilution from the re-negotiated Series B conversion rate 'downward; existing regular commons are back-door hit again.
...it will be pretty clear.
...they will cite 'competitiveness in the M&A market.
...they will cite 'high cost of capital for them versus other M&A buyers with lower internal funds 'low cost.
...they will cite 'uncertainty of corporate tax rate and impact on value of NOLs.
...classic KKR.
drkazmd65 Monday, 08/21/17 04:27:13 PM
Re: None
Post #
485270
of 485306 Go
The market really isn't going to like that PR for the 8-K.
Frankly - it is more than a bit concerning. Hiring a financial advisor to restructure the Class B shares 'just in case' they can't close a deal by January,...
Yucky!
Is this 8K a precursor of Series B renegotiation...
...and potential increased dilution?
...if no M&A, the BOD appears to covering their back sides.
...and, in order to keep the Series B, they must have concluded they will have to change the conversion range from $2.25 CAP to $1.75 FLOOR.
...if so, they want to use an outside adivsor to 'tell them that it is the best thing to do.
...so, if they change the conversions, let say for example more than 'halve them to tie into the current PPS trend, they could renegotiate at $1.00 and $0.50.
...and the same with the executive officers incentive conversions.
...under such, the dilution for existing shareholders would be massive.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000156459017017911/wmih-ex991_6.htm
EX-99.1 2 wmih-ex991_6.htm EX-99.1
Exhibit 99.1
For Immediate Release
WMIH CORP. ANNOUNCES RETENTION OF FINANCIAL ADVISER
SEATTLE, August 21, 2017 – WMIH Corp. (Nasdaq: WMIH) (the “Company”), today announced that the Finance Committee of the Company’s Board of Directors has retained Keefe, Bruyette & Woods to provide certain financial advisory services in connection with the Finance Committee’s mandate to review the Company’s capital structure and potential financing alternatives.
Steve Scheiwe, Chairman of the Company’s Board and the Finance Committee, stated “We remain committed to consummating an accretive acquisition transaction and to delivering value to our stockholders. However, we are mindful that the Company’s Series B Convertible Preferred Stock is redeemable on January 5, 2018 if we have not consummated, or executed a definitive agreement to consummate, a qualified acquisition prior to that date. Accordingly, we formed the Finance Committee, comprised solely of independent directors, to explore potential financing and refinancing alternatives, including the potential restructuring or refinancing of the Series B Preferred Stock.”
There can be no assurance that any transaction, including a refinancing of the Series B Preferred Stock, will occur or if so on what terms. There is no set timetable for the Finance Committee’s review, and the Company does not intend to provide updates unless or until it determines that further disclosure is appropriate or necessary.
The Exchange "Event" was 9/7/08...
...as per the MOU by WMB with OTS (and not contested).
...OTS then ordered WMI to do such on 9/26/08.
...might want to refer to the Court OPINION.
http://www.deb.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/judge-mary-f.walrath/mfw01071110-51387_0.pdf
On September 7, 2008, as its financial condition worsened,
WMB entered into a memorandum of understanding with the OTS (the
“MOU”) pursuant to which the OTS explicitly limited WMB’s ability
to declare a dividend. (Id. at 7A, §2(B).) On September 25,
2008, the OTS concluded that based on the MOU’s limitations on
WMB’s ability to pay dividends, an Exchange Event had occurred
and directed the Conditional Exchange of the TPS. (Id. at Ex.
6A.) WMI responded to that directive on September 25, 2008,
advising that it would issue a press release on September 26,
2008, announcing that the Conditional Exchange would occur as of
8:00 a.m. Eastern time on that date. (Id. at Ex. 6B.) WMI also
executed an assignment to WMB of all of WMI’s entitlements to the
TPS. (Id. at Ex. 7B.)
There is no dispute that an Exchange Event occurred on
September 7, 2008, as a result of the MOU whereby WMB’s ability
to declare a dividend was restricted. Nor is it disputed that
the OTS directed on September 25, 2008, that the Conditional
Exchange occur. The Court concludes that under the express terms
of the agreements those were the only conditions that needed to
occur for the Conditional Exchange to be effective.
kevins131, no Susman's legal team did not say...
...that.
...please reference and link the transcripts to support such.
...IMO, there is NO SUCH STATEMENT that the WMI estate would "receive amounts over face value of the TPS securities."
...again, (anyone) provide a link to the transcripts or the audio.
...TIA.
kevins131 Saturday, 08/19/17 11:34:20 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 485100
Post #
485102
of 485125 Go
That is not true and was argued in court by Susman's legal team. They said WMI estate said receive amounts over face value of TPS securities.
TRUST PREFERRED SECURITIES went to JPM as per...
...the Conditional Exchange.
...and the TPS Group acceptance of the Settlement Agreement.
...all clearly disclosed in the February 2012 Monthly Operating Report in Footnote 4 - Washington Mutual Preferred Funding.
...check it out.
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229120330000000000007
...since JPM got the "securities" they also GET WHAT THE SECURITIES were for ~ $13 BILLION of mortgage loans (really toxic ones too).
...as with DB and the whole MBS platform, the underlying mortgages are sponsored and sold to the investors owners of such; i.e., they DO NOT COME BACK, i.e., get 'separated from the securities that own them.
Thank you, you are correct to a degree...
...but more expansive to include all.
hotmeat Saturday, 08/19/17 08:21:50 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 485083
Post #
485085
of 485086 Go
The problem with your analysis is the assumption that you possess ALL the pertinent info.
Reading "between the lines" is one thing...
...imagining the lines that aren't there just leads in theories that have all failed for over 8 years.
...now, to a reasonably prudent person investor, what would such a failure rate (i.e., 100%) have for an impact on relying on such?
...IMO, actually reading and understanding the documents and the matters is paramount.
...as well as 'comparing such to the actual events that have taken place for the 8 years, focusing on the past 5, as such events have mirrored what was disclosed.
...compared to the alt-approach, for which NO ACTUAL EVENTS have EVER taken place as foretold (and guaranteed).
wamugold Friday, 08/18/17 10:23:26 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485074
Post #
485077
of 485083 Go
BK you are misunderstanding the whole WAMU lawyer jargon you got to get passed that and learn how to read between the lines.
That response is very telling since it is...
...applicable as noted in each of the cited items.
bkshadow
Agreed, that's why ignoring court documents...
...and assuring hundreds of billions of hidden, secret *** are 'useless.
...the 7th Amended Plan...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the GSA in the 7AP...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Disclosure Statement...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Ballot Instructions and Releases...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Equity Committee Support filing outlining the 'terms of the mediated settlement...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Equity Committee Chair Support filing (how odd? No. One of his own?)...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the TPS "conditional exchange" ruled by the Court...Fake per the alt-theories.
...over ~ . over; researched ** (' study money CRAB.
...again, agreed.
...at top speed.
...thanks.
Quote:
hotmeat Friday, 08/18/17 08:25:56 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485060
Post #
485073
of 485073 Go
Posts based on slanted opinions and lack of real factual information are essentially useless in terms of enlightening the reader.
...again, agreed.
...the fantasy of billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions and even trillions are 'useless.
...thanks.
Agreed, that's why ignoring court documents...
...and assuring hundreds of billions of hidden, secret *** are 'useless.
...the 7th Amended Plan...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the GSA in the 7AP...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Disclosure Statement...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Ballot Instructions and Releases...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Equity Committee Support filing outlining the 'terms of the mediated settlement...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the Equity Committee Chair Support filing (how odd? No. One of his own?)...Fake per the alt-theories.
...the TPS "conditional exchange" ruled by the Court...Fake per the alt-theories.
...over ~ . over; researched ** (' study $money CRAB.
...again, agreed.
...at top speed.
...thanks.
hotmeat Friday, 08/18/17 08:25:56 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485060
Post #
485073
of 485073 Go
Posts based on slanted opinions and lack of real factual information are essentially useless in terms of enlightening the reader.
What are you talking about? Released WMI...
...shareholders (i.e., escrow holders) have nothing to do with WMIH hedge fund shareholder positions.
...WMILT is regarding the former WMI/WMIIC.
...WMIH is the reorganized debtor.
...WMIH is a NASDAQ traded public company.
...YIKES.
fwh3334zeke Friday, 08/18/17 06:15:11 PM
Re: bkshadow post# 485060
Post #
485061
of 485061 Go
Released investors will see big cash benefits. Will ride the 144 HF coattails.
Kmart is unrelated to WMI/WMIIC as has...
...been noted for years; and specifically regarding the CASH UPSTREAMING AND DOWNSTREAMING postulations.
...remember, the OP and follow was re: $25 BILLION OF CASH to be UPSTREAMED or DOWNSTREAMED to or from WMB and WMI and WMI and WMB was the topic.
...not Kmart's real estate (or leases).
...as noted in Kmart, not understanding the debtors Disclosure Statement and then Fresh Start accounting was the achilles heal of the shareholder's alleging angst (what did the Court award them?).
...again, CASH (especially $25B as opined) is not OFF BALANCE or related to SAFE HARBOR.
...simply simple, not an issue ever raised.
...as with the TPS underlying, overfunded, mortgages; i.e., CORRECTLY known as the those subject to the CONDITIONAL EXCHANGE (i.e., not 'coming back as researched and read and typed) went to JPM (actually in the adversary in the court documents).
...and the ABS 'certs (a goner).
...and WMIIC's fully disclosed assets, as liquidated per court and SEC documents (regardless of 5 years later a residual 'we all know; i.e., no hidden tens to hundreds of billions).
...and certainly NOTHING to do with Steering Committee of the FDIC "RECEIVERSHIP" which keenly garnered $$$ for SR. Bondholders of WMB as shared with DB Trusts (which own the MBS; i.e, the $165B not coming back either).
Sorry, that has nothing to do with the OP...
...and the post replies.
...that there was not only no $25B UPSTREAM from WMB to WMI at the time of the seizure, there was also no $25B DOWNSTREAM from WMI to WMB either.
...factually, and as per the court documents, there as a $500M DOWNSTREAM from WMI to WMB (which the D&O was "SUED" for reimbursement).
...so, the theory(ies) was(were) $24.5B and $20.5B OFF from the actual $500M.
...here is the post.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=133940418
...of course there was cash at WMI/WMIIC; and there was a great deal of litigation over the $4B< deposit "that WMI actually got to keep."
...is was cash on hand, not OFF BALANCE, not SAFE HARBOR, etc.
...and since it was $4B< ON HAND, it was not $25B or $21B "about to be UPSTREAMED from WMB to WMI or DOWNSTREAMED from WMI to WMB."
...that's the point.
...per the AMENDED SCHEDULE OF ASSETS, THE CASH DEPOSIT IS CLEAR.
SECOND AMENDED SCHEDULE OF ASSETS AND LIABILITIES FOR WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC. (2/24/2009)
B6 Summary (Official Form 6 - Summary)
http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229090224000000000003
Sorry, that's not the case here...
...there are no hidden, secret tens to hundreds of billions of dollars.
...of CASH as was the OP.
...comments in RED.
PickStocks Friday, 08/18/17 09:56:24 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 484949
Post #
485012
of 485016 Go
Quote:
also, if WMB had such $25B, HOW COULD IT BE HIDDEN?
In BK case with shareholders in-tack or dismiss. a company chooses not disclose hidden assets such as cash Sorry, CASH is not an asset that can be 'hidden, especially tens to hundreds of BILLIONS, and if such CASH was there WHY DIDN'T THEY USE IT? can hide assets and will hide if they are going to re-organized out of BK. Too Many times companies have stated no money or assets for waterfall to shareholders....than to everyone's surprise.....there are assets that just appeared after the exit from BK......... Could you list the largest 5-10 or so to support such (you know, the ones in the BILLIONS of HIDDEN CASH? Please, not Kmart, as the Judge clearly opined what was the value of the shareholder objections.
You must not have been involved in too many BK's........
Sorry, actual DOWNSTREAM is $20.5 BILLION off...
...$500 MILLION is $20.5 BILLION "off" from $21 BILLION asserted.
...might want to take a look at the actual documents.
...for example ~
...I have highlighted in RED.
WMILT – QUARTERLY SUMMARY REPORT 6/30/2015
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1545078/000090951815000241/mm07-3115_8ke991.htm
Note 10: Director and Officer Downstream Litigation
On October 14, 2014, the Trust commenced two actions against certain directors and officers of WMI and WMB, as applicable, (the “D&O Defendants”): (i) one action in the King County Superior Court of the State of Washington (the “Washington D&O Litigation”) and (ii) an adversary proceeding in the Bankruptcy Court (the “D&O Adversary Proceeding” and, collectively, the “D&O Litigations”). In the Washington D&O Litigation, the Trust sought at least $500 million in damages and costs and reasonable attorneys’ fees, asserting, among other things, that the D&O Defendants breached their fiduciary duties of loyalty, care and good faith to WMI by implementing, approving or acquiescing in the transfer of $500 million from WMI to WMB on September 10, 2008 (the “September Downstream”) and that the September Downstream was a waste of WMI’s corporate assets. In the D&O Adversary Proceeding, the Trust sought to, among other things, disallow the D&O Defendants’ proofs of claim against the Debtors’ estates for indemnification, advancement, contribution, and/or reimbursement allegedly arising from their employment with WMI. The Trust asserted that the indemnification sought does not extend to any of the D&O Defendants because they breached their fiduciary duties, which excuses any obligation to provide the D&O Defendants indemnification, advancement, contribution, and/or reimbursement and under WMIs organizational documents and under other applicable Washington law. Moreover, the Trust asserted that, to the extent such claims were allowed, the D&O Defendants’ proofs of claim should be subordinated under section 510(c) of the Bankruptcy Code to all other claims against the Debtors’ estates as a result of the D&O Defendants’ inequitable conduct, as described in the D&O Litigations.
Washington Mutual Inc. v. XL Specialty Insurance Co. et al., filed March 15 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del., also accuses the insurers of breach of good faith and fair dealing. According to the lawsuit, on Sept. 28, 2008, just 15 days before the Office of Thrift Supervision seized Washington Mutual Bank, several directors and officers of Washington Mutual Inc. ordered a “downstream capital contribution” of $500 million to the bank unit.
In the days just before WaMu’s collapse in September 2008, the bank holding company made a $500 million “downstream” capital contribution in what proved to be a futile attempt to alleviate the bank’s liquidity crisis. The FDIC took control of the bank on September 28, 2008 and the bank holding company filed for bankruptcy. Following the bankruptcy filing, the committee of unsecured creditors sent the holding company’s former directors and officers a demand letter, asserting that the downstream capital contribution was wrongful and had been made in breach of their fiduciary duties and seeking damages. For the policy period May 1, 2007 to May 1, 2008, WaMu’s bank holding company (hereafter, WaMu) had a $250 million D&O insurance program arranged in twelve layers. For the following period, May 1, 2008 to May 1, 2009, WaMu had a separate $250 million D&O insurance tower also consisting of twelve layers.
The trust responsible for distributing any remaining assets of Washington Mutual Inc. to unsecured creditors has sued the former directors and officers of the bank holding company, alleging they carried out “a reckless and inexplicable transaction that wasted at least $500 million” of its capital by transferring the money to the books of Washington Mutual Bank shortly before the bank subsidiary failed. In parallel lawsuits filed Tuesday in King County Superior Court and in bankruptcy court in Delaware, the WMI Liquidating Trust claims Washington Mutual Inc.’s executives in early September 2008 “responded out of panic rather than reason” when they moved the money “downstream” to the bank in a last-ditch effort to bolster its capital. The suit says the $500 million was seized by regulators along with Washington Mutual Bank’s other assets on Sept. 25 and transferred to JPMorgan Chase when it acquired the failed bank. A more prudent course, according to the suit, would have been to leave the money at the holding company, out of regulators’ reach and available to creditors and shareholders.
There was no $21B UPSTREAM or DOWNSTREAM...
...from WMB to WMI.
...or from WMI to WMB.
...that's $42B combined.
...if there was, I'm sure you can link it.
...here is a link to where the case docket is; take a look there.
https://www.kccllc.net/wamu
...thanks.
SweetGeorgiaBrown Friday, 08/18/17 08:47:46 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 484996
Post #
485002
of 485002 Go
you are correct it was 21 billion not 25
There was no $25B UPSTREAM or DOWNSTREAM...
...from WMB to WMI.
...or from WMI to WMB.
...that's $50B combined.
...if there was, I'm sure you can link it.
...here is a link to where the case docket is; take a look there.
https://www.kccllc.net/wamu
...thanks.
mufa Friday, 08/18/17 07:23:38 AM
Re: bkshadow post# 484990
Post #
484994
of 484995 Go
Bkshadoq, do you have a link for that?! Or is just your old theory and opinion ?
Please I would love to see you posting something concrete with real FACTS, not just your old opinion.
Long blog posts with no FACTS, just opinion scare away readers.It s ok to have an opinion..but it s just an opinion. IMHO
Thank you