excel, never said the Great Commission says anything about going to heaven. I brought up the point because you suggested that baptism was something other than a commandment spoken by Jesus Christ Himself.

God doesn't "want them to baptize", God commands them to baptize.

If you have a relationship with Jesus Christ, baptism is an act of obedience to His commandment, hence, if you do not obey a commandment of Jesus Christ, you cannot have a relationship with Him.

Yes, Sassy's post has scripture relating to children, but nothing conclusive.

I would suggest you read the story of the Covenant between God and Abraham.

1OFHIS, wrong. We are born sinners. Get it? Born sinners. From the moment we are born, we are first children then adults, but nevertheless, sinners. Sinners will never enter the Kingdom of God is their sins are not forgiven and atoned for. It is clear and incontrovertible to me.

1OFHIS, when the Bible teaches one thing, automatically the contrary is excluded.

"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Acts 16:31.

The contrary would spell: Don't believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will not be saved - neither you nor your household.

Sassy, those are scriptures suggesting that children may go to heaven, and are open to interpretation. As far as I have studied, there is no clear, incontrovertible scripture that guarantees heaven to children.

excel, baptism is a commandment given directly by Jesus Christ in the Great Commission:

"Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Salvation comes by acknowledgment of our sinful nature, asking for forgiveness and repenting of our sins. Evidently, little children have no idea what is sin or repentance, they don't understand what Jesus came for and what He did for us all, they are not able to accept Him and His sacrifice.

If salvation comes through repentance and through our faith in Jesus Christ, then children are not saved based this condition. Neither the Bible teaches that children are automatically saved by being children.

Through the faith of the parents on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, their children fall under the Grace of God based on the premise that the parents, as Christians, will obediently raise their children according to the teachings of the Bible.

Likewise, children who are raised by unbelieving parents do not fall under the Grace of God and they are not protected.

Again, there is no biblical support for the salvation of children for the mere reason that they are children. There is only one way for salvation, and is not conditional or discriminatory.

I know this is not a popular opinion in our world and it sounds inhumane and cruel. We could never accept a child to be unsaved. But remember, we are all born with the sinful nature, and there can be no sin in heaven. Sin must be atoned for, and children cannot or are unable to fulfill the requirements.

It is the way I understand it. If I am wrong, please help me out with scripture.

Sassy, I believe that children under the age of accountability are part of the Grace covenant of God through the baptism of their believing parents. Unfortunately, if the parents of a child who dies are not Christians and have not been baptized and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, have condemned their little ones to damnation.

Sassy, I understand, and if you felt compelled to have that post removed, you did right. The issue is not clear and it's complicated.

Better safe than sorry, I think, applies here.

d4diddy, the problem has always been those hypsters and insiders who have pushed the idea of smooth sailing to fame and fortune. But, of course, they denied any troubled waters, storms, and even hurricanes. Now investors are in deep waters in the middle of the ocean, with no will to send an S.O.S. or hold the perps accountable. They get what they wanted.

Sassy,

If some people in the last judgment turn to Christ in faith when they at last learn what he has done for them, then he will certainly not turn them away

There are certain teachings that may indicate that Jesus went down to hell to preach the gospel to those who died before ever hearing of Him, or those who died before His death and resurrection. Of course, it is not at the moment of the Final Judgment, when no one will have any other choice but to hear the eternal verdict.

Please notice in the paragraph you quoted that:

"when they at last learn what he has done for them"

which may point to those who never heard of Him. Of course, at the Last Judgment it will be too late for anyone.

excel, you will NOT get a straight answer from him. Don't waste your time, and remember what Jesus said: let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Tribulation Force on TBN, now.

d4diddy,


If you don't want to spend money, then don't read the filings.

I previously wrote that I personally knew someone who was lead to a new life through Christ as a direct result of Mother Teresas intervention, yet lmorovan says it isn't so. How would he know that?

when did I say mother Teresa didn't lead anyone to Christ? She may have lead many. But that does not guarantee her own salvation. You can lead millions to Christ, but if you believe that there are other ways to salvation you are eternally wrong.

As usual, you put words in my mouth that I never said, and that is not right and is not honest.

And yes, anyone who places his trust and faith in Christ with genuine repentance, will be saved, including such as Hitler or Stalin. That is the Word of God, not man's invention.

Those who end up in heaven will be surprised of finding people there that they thought were lost. Likewise, those who end up in hell will be surprised to find out many so called "Christians" there.

In the end, the Final Judgment will determine who ends up where.

Sassy, I agree with your statement, except one little point: all paths take to God, but only one takes to the Father and to heaven.

All mankind will get to the presence of God, one way or the other, at the time of Judgment. But few will enter the Kingdom.

I have first hand knowledge of her changing lives and leading lost souls to Christ, after all her life was spent following in the footsteps of Christ. Isn't that enough for you people?

Changing lives and leading souls to Christ is a statement that you make without knowledge. Following the footsteps of Christ is indeed not enough. The key to heaven is the confession of her faith and belief in Jesus Crist.

I wonder what kind of God would not allow her in heaven?

The One and Only God, who has clearly stated the way to heaven.

But Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin are in because just before their death they proclaimed Jesus Christ as their personal savior

Indeed, if they did confess Jesus Christ as Savior and their confession was genuine, both Hitler and Stalin are saved. Regardless of what they have done in their lives, all sins except one are forgivable and forgiven if repented.

Many believe this passage to mean a man who is rich with preconcieved ideas, not necessarily rich in a monetary sense.

That is your interpretation with no biblical evidence to support it.

whitemanfromtown, the point is, regardless of how much good she has done, if she has not confessed Jesus Christ as her Savior, she is lost. And there is no documented statement of her confessing Jesus Christ, but many confessions of the Pope, the saints and especially, Mary. Not one of them will save her.

Why would a Christian take the word of an extra-biblical source that contradicts Scripture? Avoid all appearance of evil is a good policy, and the DaVinci Code is evil.

I think it would be far more beneficial to read the Christian responses to the DaVinci Code than to read it for themselves.

If what you claim in the first sentence is true, then how could we, Christians, read the response to the Da Vinci Code written by some who have red the book. If Christians should not read the book, then they should not listen either to those who did read the book.

Do you ever read any other book than the Bible? If so, why? How can you be sure what you read is not evil? Until you read it yourself you can never know whether what is written is or not biblically correct.

Based on your assumption, we should never red anything other than the Bible. Furthermore, we should never watch TV, go to the movies, listen to the radio or even listen to anyone saying anything, lest we get exposed to evil. That would not only be fanaticism but actually extremism.

Paul knew how to read Latin, Greek and perhaps Aramaic. How did he learned to read other than someone teaching him and him actually reading the writings of the Greeks and Romans? No, my friend, there is not even one Fundamentalist in the Bible. God gave us the gift of reason, understanding and discernment in order to use them, not bury them in the ground.

NJMARK50, I gree with your take on Mother Teresa and many other so called raw models of Christianism. Goodness will not get anyone to heaven, a lifelong sacrificial life for the poor and hungry will not get anyone to heaven, the only way to heaven is Jesus Christ.

There are many ways to God, true. Everyone will have to face Him, like it or not.

But there is only one way to the Father and to eternal life, that is Jesus Christ. Nothing else will work.

You say you are a Fundamentalist. I have no problem with you, but I do have a problem with labels. Yet, your confession answers many of the questions your postings have raised. Now I understand you a little more. Especially why you have placed me on ignore.

killianpsi,

"While we do have the Holy Spirit and He does give discernment, I believe that a part of that discernment is also the abiltiy to avoid such material. That's the equivalent of saying that we need to spend some time as a Muslim to be able to refute their claims."

I wonder if you really mean what you say. Of course you don't need to "spend some time as a Muslim to be able to refute their claims", but you do need to know what their claims are if you are to refute them. Can you actually discuss the Bible with someone who never read the Bible? Of course not. But you don't have to spend some time as a Christian to be able to refute the Christians, you actually need to read the Bible in order to stand on common ground.

killianpsi, I am sure Satan would be very pleased with those Christians who did not or will not read the book. The movie is nothing but a poor visual of the book. But, how can you debate, discuss and/or defend the book's false premises and blasphemous accusations if you don't know what the book says? Using other people's opinions and findings is not very effective when you don't know what they are talking about. And how can you rely in those who refute the book if they didn't read the book themselves? And if they read the book, could they be considered reliable, based on your opinion that Christians should not read the book? Can you go to fight the enemy blindfolded?

Don't be afraid, if your Christian foundations are solid, nothing will shatter it. I red the book about 2 years ago, and did it again lately to refresh my memory and be able to stand on solid ground when confronted.

"Okay, Matt, I will abide by those rules."

Where do I have to kiss you? LOL.

Matt, every web site in the world belongs to somebody, be it an organization or a person. If linking to my web site is against iHub rules, then any other link to any other web site is against the rules also. Does it make sense?

Now, you may know that there are some individuals that will do whatever it takes to silence the truth about CDEX. They did it before and will continue to do so. They are actually getting even YOU to play to their music. There is one place on the web that most publicly available information and documents are found. And they have, for years, discredited it, to no avail (after all, what's to discredit about publicly available documents?). Those who visit the site are thankful for the extensive DD they can find regarding LOCH/CDEX.

I will respect your "order". But you know well enough that the site will stay, so your decision is at best fruitless if not unfortunately partial

Crow, he's not worried about cookies or anything like that. After all, there are very few, if any web sites that do not use cookies. He is worried that the truth is being told and he may lose his investment. And who better to blame than me, LOL.

lentinman, excuse me? Let me see if I get this straight:

I send a message to Matt asking who is running iHub, he or grubmaster.

Matt does not answer.

grubmaster answers "yes". Yes what? Is it Matt or grubmaster?

LOL, now, grubmaster answers for Matt, and you answer for grubmaster. Is anyone answering for himself?

Crow, every web site in the world belongs to somebody, be it an organization or a person. If linking to my web site is against iHub rules, then any other link to any other web site is against the rules also. Does it make sense?

Yes means what, Matt or you? Besides, can you specify the "issue" you talked to Matt about?

Matt, who is running iHub, you or grubmaster?

OT This seems to be the identity of the person who has the power to control certain aspects and functions of RB:

rbaudit1.mia.lycos.com

How much would cost an advertisement like the one on Channel 45?

Just like the good old ELF story, the technology that was worth billions. Not to mention, of course, the VAMMP, the REAL money maker.

Documents Available at:

http://www.lmorovan.com/CDEX/cdex.htm

Thanks Lori

There are only three ways of doing things: do it right, do it wrong and do nothing.

The Holy Spirit will compel you to do right.

Satan will compel you to do wrong. And if it doesn't work, he will compel you to do nothing.

"...the device, which is currently able to detect wrong drugs and only concentrations that are several-fold different from the target concentration being tested."

Seems like ValiMed still has problem with detecting minor differences in concentrations.

Free will is incompatible with the Sovereignty of God.

sanddollar, you would think Viking is taking over?

diddy, it's posted here

http://www.lmorovan.com/CDEX/cdex.htm

ASD Answer to CDEX Counterclaim

http://www.lmorovan.com/CDEX/cdex.htm

Thanks Lori

nolajo999, errr... since my name and identity is involved here, may I opt for a commission? LOL.

Crow, he will never accept he was wrong, he would rather spend the rest of his time in the Jailhouse for a lie, rather than bitting his tongue and acknowledge his mistake. Doing so will be devastating for his "credibility", LOL.

And I am sure YOU think CDEX has anything that has to do with homeland security, LOL.

WAKE UP!!!!