waiting for $20 for commons
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I LOVED THE BILLBOARD IDEA... CAN WE SUBMIT THOUGHTS AND DESIGNS AND HAVE IHUBBERS VOTE ON THE BEST????
Many of you thought my last posts were pretty much on the mark so I hope I don't upset too many people here with these thoughts...
IMHO This is like doing something wrong on your taxes and you have an opening of a few days to come clean BEFORE they send the big IRS boys in to EXAM everything..
Do you come clean now, or do you risk them finding out way more and digging up the real dirt???
IMHO, If there's no settlement this week-end BEFORE the examiner has a chance to find even one small detail that could snowball into criminal proceedings and bring down the entire house of cards around Dimon... THEN we're going to be here for years talking about this....
I'm sorry, it makes no sense whatsoever for them NOT to settle this BEFORE something is found to nail them all..
There's ALWAYS some detail, some minor error, perhaps a whistleblower who wants to protect themselves and give someone higher up the chain away to avoid criminal proceedings. That's how this works they're not interested in Mrs and Mrs Jones, they'll make no headlines -
They're interested in bringing down Jamie Dimon - NOW THAT WOULD MAKE HEADLINES
BTW,,,,, I always pay my taxes lol
You're missing the ENTIRE point..
Jamie I believe feels he did no wrong here. He manipulated and schemed to convince Sheila to sell him WAMU, but as someone posted earlier there will be no trail from him to her, he's not dumb!!
Therefore we r taking on the government controlled FDIC.. These guys are the wealthiest and most connected individuals in the world, they are not going to capitulate and hand over billions in a hurry unless they are 100% cornered.
If they're willing to roll the dice and go to court then they must know something more than posters here on a website do...
Even with all the DD remember we have been caught wrong footed before and this game was nearly up months ago!!!
The possibility of going to trial seems greater than ever. Perhaps Jamie has worked his numbers and knows even losing at trial will make him the ultimate winner.
Every day they make billions off of wamu.. A trial would take years and then a jury has to decide against 2 banking organizations which in todays atmosphere are despised by most people in this country for different reasons...
I hate to say it but I think this just got worst not better for us.... IMHO
fsshon, you are 100% correct..
It's clear to me that we as shareholders have a very important decision to make though.
Rosen, FDIC, JPMC have stated over and over again their is no money for equity, correct??
Now we as shareholders believe that there could be 30-300 billion discovered by the new examiner..
No matter what, if Rosen, FDIC, JPMC know that there is that money and their theft will be uncovered, THEY CAN NOT AFFORD to have the examiner start or especially come to court with NEW NUMBERS for equity..
That leaves us as shareholders with only 2 options to make...
a) There has to be a settlement before the examiner even begins
b) We are wrong and Rosen, FDIC, JPMC are happy that the examiner will not find any wrongdoings and they are protected by everything they have done..
You just can't make any other conclusion...
These guys are just not stupid... There is no way they have been around for decades and are going to roll the dice here.. That's not their MO.... They calculate and scheme and control EVERYTHING they do and undertake...
These people are powerful and corrupt at the highest levels...
Look at Scooter Libby and Bill Clinton.... It's not the crime but many times the cover up that leads to prosecution and jail...
Jamie Dimon is not dumb.... He has to settle before the examiner exposes the cash or they may uncover something very embaressing to everyone, including the Obama administration in this take down.
Personally I'm not rolling the dice on that court date. If there's no settlement before the examiner begins I'm out for ever because that tells me we've missed something very very big here.
ALL IMHO
Thank you for your service...
What a fascinating week this has been....
Low volume and hardly any movement in price in either direction...
No-one here has a clue as to what is going to happen but there is no denying this is probably the most intriguing stock we'll all ever likely to buy.
Longs, or lottery holders i hope and pray that pre-seizure and post seizure will be satisfied and finally see something for their risk and patience.
No one will be happy with the offer (if there is one),,, I just hope if it comes it's something in the range of what the stock was worth leading up to the theft. At least pre-seizure stock holders will see some if not all of their money back.
i bought a few more lottery tickets this week...
This would be THE perfect week-end to end this...
Hey UZ, fabulous work on your part recently...
I'd take half that!!!!
Great posts by everyone.
I finally took time off and went to court myself.it was a great road trip and worth the time.. It was fascinating to see the attorneys close up and 'in real life'
However we can write and re-write our take on what went on and the characters involved it doesn't change anything.
Roll back the layers, the DD, the speculation and only two options are plausable..
1. IHUBBERS and Yahoo posters have read this correctly and against all odds equity will see some relief or
2. The market understands that no matter the current trend, equity will still be left out in the cold.
No volume at 17 cents a share with all the SEEMINGLY POSITIVE moves there's something that no one here is seeing.
JPMC is not backed into a corner, is in full control and is unfazed by recent events. My feeling is they know something very, very simple that this case is going on for months, perhaps years.
Not one person on this board can give an answer as to why we are not once again seeing 100 million plus shares moving this stock to it's highs.
It simply makes no sense to have us here at 17 cents...
If a settlement was even hinted at for dollars yesterday this stock would have headed north big time today.
Perhaps a good buying opportunity? I still think this time next year we'll be able to pick this stock up for under 20 cents...
Great post BK2010
We have more favorable press and you could be persuaded that things are gong our way, so why
the low share price?
Because other than the longs on this board and those like me who play this as a pure cheap lottery play NO ONE else believes this will end well.
This mm manipulation that we read about and is blamed here day after day is quite frankly BS...
There are powerful,educated and very smart money people from many places looking at this share and if they thought they could turn pennies into $$$ this volume would be in the 100 millions each day.
It's about supply and demand, always has been.
The fact is that the REAL money is against equity seeing any recovery which is why this stock is at 17 cents today with just days to go before another big court date.
It can be spun a thousand times but if we were going to see pennies move to dollars any time soon this share price would be exploding both in volume and price.
Folks here can deny the facts and hate the message but disapointment (again) is probably just hours away...
We'll still be here this time next year probably at the same low prices waiting for something to happen...
Meanwhile 17 cents is still a cheap lottery as long as your prepared to rip up your tickets and lose your money.. IMHO
NO SETTLEMENT over the week-end which can only mean one thing...
JPMC and DIMON are not afraid of the examiner and are quite prepared for it,
They obviously feel quite comfortable that they can control the examiner and perhaps even know that they will eventually prevail. The examiner is only human and who knows what pressure will come to bear from the very powerful forces that has already dragged this on and has been blind to the obvious and the facts of this case...
These guys are not idiots, we all know their history over the past 100 years....
I've been reading all the excited posts and dreams of settlement and ridiculous numbers of $24 pps.
The fact is that the judge could easily ignore the settlement request and the market is indicating that since we have not seen a run to the highs with just days to go. If this was going to settle or be worth dollars we'd be bouncing our way to huge new numbers.
Once again we have too many dreamers on this board and not enough posters prepared to face the facts instead they post fiction.
What you all going to say when the examiner is rejected or the court date is delayed again for some other stupid reason.
There will be NO SETTLEMENT unless JPMC is backed into a corner and is 100% unable to escape - We are nowhere near that and not even a possibly corrupt examiner will do that for us.
Hopefully we'll see this run to a $1
Isn't it FACT that in over 90% of BK's common shareholders are wiped out and receive nothing???
This is looking rather similar even with all the DD....
Can someone counter-act these facts for me and let the board know of some RECENT cases where this is not true and common shareholders received something?
HONEST BOARD MEMBERS NEED ONLY REPLY PLEASE... - ENOUGH OF THE B/S -
Question for all the experts who have steered so many stock novices along this road....
We have many, many young college people on this board that have put a great deal of faith and money (rightly or wrongly) into this stock and THEIR HOPE of paying off some money so they can have a brighter future..
Ok, so based on all we know at this point, what do the experts think is the % chance of the current common shareholders seeing let's say anything above $1.00
For me who has been here some time it looks very unlikely that we'll see anything so my vote is 0% - because as I've stated before we have seen nothing to combat Rosen from the EC or Sussman. They have remained silent while we suffer and the stock tumbled from 75 cents to 9 cents.
If they're our friends and r supposed to be representing us then we r deeply in trouble IMHO...
yes..offer next week BUT WHAT YEAR???
Actually all joking apart, if the mm's and JPMC were truly smart and wanted their hands on millions and millions of more shares they would make this baby run up to near the highs of 75 cents....Along the way up people like me who are eager to get out at a reasonable price will gladly give em all up.
Frankly at under 50 cents it's worth just hanging on for the hell of it but over that I'd sell em in a heartbeat and let the rest of you guys either see millions or lose it all, IMHO it'll be the latter.
For years now this board gets excited about so much, the expectation is huge and here we sit with nothing to show for it.
Remember how this board was so enthusiastuc about Rosen, he was the greatest. mmm that didn't work out to well.
Then the anticipation was the examiner, mmm that was shot down...
Now EVERYONE is convinced that Mr Sussman and the EC is going to be the deal makers..
I've asked over and over again for any solid, factual evidence that either of them are showing any positive movement towards helping commons. All i see on the board are responses that we're in better shape than we were at 75 cents!!!
you guys r fantastic i admire your ability to ignore the facts presented in front of your eyes.
Here we are at 12.5 cents come on Mr Sussman earn your money and settle on a $1 next week and end this farce or Mr MM's let this baby run to 50 cents.
WAIT..HOLD THE PRESS... THERE'S MORE USELESS DOCUMENTS POSTED LOL
Better off now than at 75 cents oh my lord what a joke...
What part of the truth didn't you like?
Could u point to just one, please just one piece of solid evidence (not hope and prayers) that we common shareholders will see anything?
Like me on a message board you can post what you like even insults, but there has been no facts to support anything of any value to common shareholders in the past few months hence the drop from 75 cents to 9 cents recently.
You may believe in mm games but there are wealthy, well connected and experienced people watching this case and this stock, and fewer and fewer believe common shareholders will see justice or money..
I'm pissed and upset but that doesn't change the facts.
If there had been one little teeny weeny statement to support something from the EC i'd be thrilled but their silence is telling the story. They know there is nothing and that's why they have nothing to say to equity.
They r supposed to be on our side, where r the statements to refute the past few weeks???
I may be an a-hole but you my friend are blinded by logic
Believeing in hope and change sometimes leaves you with zero hope and just change in your pocket!!
Your strategy lose everything..
my strategy sell 100,000 at 15 cents and leave with $15,000 from this mess.
Yes and in a CD ill have $15,000 ++++ over many years and you'll still have ZERO!!
You can act smart and brave but the reality is you'll be pis44ed if Johnny Winter and I am right and you miscalculated won't you?
Either this is going to end badly in a few days or this is going to drag on for years and ill buy back in at 15 cents 2 years from now.
Again there is zero evidence that equity will see anything from this.
I originally felt sorry for the pre-seizure holders but having lost a fortune when Rosen posted that POS POR I guess we're all in this mess together, we just have to choose out own exit strategy.
Stay strong longs the world needs you....
Let's get real here folks..
If we don;t have a significant statement or major press release from the EC or Sussman 24 hours before the next court date everyone is likely to be hitting the SELL button as fast as they can in a few days time.
There has been zero news and nothing to suggest that Rosen hasn't got complete control of the siuatuon and that the POR will be agreed upon and finalized.
Too many of you put your faith in Rosen and your doing exactly the same with Sussman. We got caught with our pants down before and it's likely it'll happen again once and for all!!!
diamonds a great cheerleader but he wanted the examiner because that was going to be the 'nail in the coffin'... that didn't work out did it, but we're to believe the 'law is the law'.
Personally I received my two letters today, there are millions and milllions of shareholders who do not understand what's going on and don't read ihub. Scrambling with a couple of dozen letters from us is absolutely a waste of time and effort. IMHO
I have a sell for all but 10000 of my shares at 15 cents. I'll be thrilled to recover at least that because I have a feeling Sussman is going to be ineffective for us against such powerful forces and I fear and feel this game is sadly over and we will see nothing.
You can bury your heads in the sand and stay long but losing money is never a pleasant experience no matter how strong you believe in justice. This case IMHO will be quitely closed with a whimper and there is nothing further that we will be able to do.
If there is one piece of hard evidence from the EC or Sussman to the contrary please post it, we're all desperate to see it?
Johnny Winter, i hate to admit it...BUT it looks like you were right all along and we were fools to ignore it. 70 cents was the FINAL high for this puppy and again we were fools to ignore that as well.
sussman???
Mark this post....
Months from now you guys will be complaining about him like you r Rosen!!!
You all thought Rosen was on our side and was a genius.. How did that work out for us??? mmmm
Just read all my private messages..
Thanks for the support. I know it's hard for many who agree with my postings to get them on because this board typically limits negative thinking about the likely outcome here..
This we believe is a WAMU discussion board, where we should be able to discuss THE FACTS both good and bad, not just the ramblings of all the experts who so far have ALL been proved to be way off on dates, times and numbers..
SHOW ME THE 300 BILLION EVIDENCE , not from diamond but someone who has real effect on these proceedings..WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE EVEN 30 BILLION EXISTS?
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS BANK WAS STOLEN?
Look we all have some shares it may be pre it may be post. it may be 1000 shares or a million shares, you wouldn't believe how many I've accumulated this year if I told you..
BUT, all this doesn't mean we have seen any real positive evidence in the court room that commons will see anything. We've seen quite the opposite,,
Yes we have an EC, yes we have the UST but so what...SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
#1... WE HAVE A JUDGE WHO DELAYS, DELAYS, DELAYS AND IS 100% UNABLE TO RULE ON OUR BEHALF ON THE MOST CRITICAL AND IMPORTANT ISSUES IN FRONT OF HER.
SHE HAS DONE NOTHING CRUCIAL ON OUR BEHALF THAT WOULD INDICATE THEIR IS CASH COMING OUR WAY..
REGULATORS RESPONSE TO WAMU FEEBLE..FT.COM
Regulators ignored risks.. AP
Mortgage risks tipped the balance..AP
Wamu risk takers slammed.. Reuters
Wamu risky loans riddled with fraud.. FT.com
mmmm.. The narrative is clear.. Wamu was in terrible shape, it was badly run, fraud was rampant and although regulators did a lousy job they will NOT BE BLAMED and everyone will just learn a lesson from this is the future..
Other than on this board there is no FACTUAL evidence of foul play, no evidence the bank was stolen, no evidence there is 300 billion hidden somewhere, and no evidence Jamie Dimon did anything wron..
You can scream all you like and write as many letters as you want but poor handling and mismanagement does not equate to wrong doings or criminal acts that can be proven in court.
Unless there's some secret smoking gun that can FACTUALLY NAIL these people in a court of law that they CONSPIRED to all this wrongdoing then the longer this goes on and gets delayed it's clear IMHO this is just like any other BK where parties are SLOWLY trying to resolve matters to emerge like millions of companies before them in better shape.
There is zero evidence in the entire testimony, in any court over the past few months that would indicate these common shares will see a penny..
Like 99.9% of BK's the common shareholders are wiped out, this is the most likely scenario after this weeks events..
OF COURSE THESE TICKETS ARE ALSO A GOOD LOTTERY PLAY -IMHO at 17 cents
So April 21st arrives.. The EC spills the beans and says Wamu is worth let's say a mere 100 billion THEN WHAT??
I haven't seen JPMC or their attorneys shaking in their boots fileing motion upon motion upon motion to stop this possible event from happening, quite the opposite.... The press and everyone including the markets think JD is a hero and can do no wrong..
This is the problem.. When the powerful have so much time and energy invested into making someone look good then when they find out he's nothing but a low life and possibly a crook how do you back away etc, etc.. Your reputation is tied to his success NOT his failure...
it seems to me that unless something happens before April 21st then we're likely to never see anything sorted out for many, many years and then nothing like the crazy dollar numbers that have been talked about here for the past year +... This crazy talk of $12++ makes us feel good (I for one love the idea) but it's based on zero SOLID evidence presented in any legal setting and is pure speculation that we'll ever see a dime...
If it makes you feel better write all these letters etc but at the end of the day the LAW is the LAW and if it's found no laws were broken then you can argue miscarriage of justice all you like but you won't see a penny.
I'm in the corner that says EC will not be as positive as people believe on April 21st, and that we're in for the normal expert analysis about what went wrong, the same stuff we see time and time again.
Instead of writing letters get away from your computers and start demonstrating in the streets in front of JPMC and their local branches. You see NO ONE is interested unless you get some REAL PRESS -
The country will change this November because people are now more educated than ever before and are willing to get off their arse- and make themselves heard. Unless you get in these peoples faces they have nothing to fear and nothing to lose.
We don't need a Vegas trip we need a Washington and New York trip, hundreds, perhaps thousands of us descending outside Chases's HQ - Now that will get some interest going...
No, better still just continue writing a letter, they really make a huge difference...
No news from the EC?
Well since the stock is doing nothing one week ahead of this important EC date in court, my guess is we're likely to be screwed and dissapointed once again..
Oh yes, the experts here will point to all the wonderful support from the judge the PAST YEAR.. Yes it's been great hasn't it...mmmm BUT MY PORTFOLIO says we're at 0.17 cents STILL!!!!
JPMC r going to fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This judge hasn't got the courage to rule on anything SUBSTANTIAL...
She rules on the easy ones AND HAS PUNTED EACH AND EVERY TIME ON THE HARD ONES...
NEXT WEEK IMHO = NOTHING WILL HAVE CHANGED - NOTHING!!!
If u don't have gray hair now, you will by the time this is over...
Newbies on the board make a decision to be long on this stock and pray that the mm's are kind enough to run this up to 50 cents so u can bail out ASAP.
I watched the entire proceedings yesterday.. How many here on this board are like me thrilled to see government at work..??? LOL
Look Killinger did okay but when r we going to see some b-lls and everyone admit the truth?? He had the greatest opportunity to spill the beans and tell the truth and he didn't have the courage to do it.
Excuses, excuses.. REAL MEN like Ollie North get up and tell these monkeys in Washington the facts of life and stick it straight back to them.
If he believes there was wrong doing and HIS bank was stolen then be a man and stand up and declare it to the world
Secondly why is the EC so quite? Where's a press release to support Killingers mutterings about wrongdoing???
Look the EC owes us at the very least some vague communication to give us a sense that they're not going to screw us one more time..
traderob..
That's it in a nutshell, GREAT POST..
I want badly like EVERYONE on this board to believe at the end of the day we will see justice and compensation BUT look how they spin the facts..
They deceive, they lie, they cheat and they will do ANYTHING to protect their powerful JP Morgan associates and friends at the FDIC etc
When they leave office they need somewhere to work and that's when they get their cushy jobs and million dollar pay off (in form of their pay off).. That's the game.. How do you think ALL these people leave Washington and end up rich??
WAMU is clearly by EVERY press account (except Kristen) the bad boys and they deserve nothing which means we as shareholders deserve nothing..
All the agencies involved did the right thing by stepping in and even when Killinger makes his arguements I doubt anyone will believe him and unless he comes out swinging and swinging back big he will be seen as the culprit NOT the victim.
Sadly this farce will allow the judge political cover and an excuse to lend less credence to any claims in her court of wrong doing and this will end with probably nothing for us except a bad taste and even greater disgust for congress.
Until we decide to take real action to take back our country nothing will change.
I'm delighted to see these senators in the limelight so those that voted for them can see whose running the asylum and what crooks they are.
First let me stipulate that i pray, i HOPE DIAMOND IS CORRECT AND WE SEE $12+++
But the reality is that the fix is in AND Jamie Dimon and his crooks will get away with this and be proteced by the media, the press and worst but not unexpected the crooks in congress.
The narative was set a couple of weeks ago in court with that pathetic POR from Rosen, the judge and the EC plus the UST have done zero since. Nothing to help the shareholders, no positive press releases, absolutely nothing..
This morning the EC should have had a press release ahead of the testimony outlining what happened and that common shareholders WILL SEE recovery because of blah blah blah blah etc etc
Unfortunately it's clear why we have seen the delay and the judge has been part of this. it was to set WAMU up in front of the cameras and to solidify the fact that it was their fault that this all happened and as I said yesterday that the country should be grateful for Chase and JD
My friends all the DD, all the videos, all the letters are 100% a waste of time when you're dealing with these crooks who are amongst the most well connected and most powerful figures in the world.
We know what happened BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER -NOW you all get it don't you..
This was set up from th beginning to protect the governement, the FDIC and the players involved.
We common shareholders were just pawns in the game, we will see nothing because that was never part of the whole corrupt scheme.
Scream and shout, write letters to the judge but IMHO the stage will be set on april 21st to not be good for us after this - I HOPE I'M WRONG..
By the way the last time any man had the courage to take on these crooks in Washington was Cl Oliver North who made these fools look exactly what they are FOOLS!!
My heart say $12 BUT my head says ZERO
NYT: Regulators are blamed for not overseeing Washington Mutual..
This is fast becoming a political battle to see where the blame for Washington Mutuals failure lies. As I've said the judge WILL NOT rule on anything SIGNIFICANT until she has POLITICAL cover IMHO.. If the hearings give her cover to rule for wamu she will, HOWEVER if it goes badly in congress this week, she'll protect herself and we'll see this whole thing go south very quickly.
If she had any REAL courage we'd have our billions back months ago, You know it and I know it... I'm wiling to express it however many here are just not prepared to face the truth and the facts..
I've read on this board for over a year that this is an open and shut case of how a bank was stolen. Funny how a year later the judge presiding over the matter hasn't heard enough to rule!
We are still mired in a BK which has now taken on a mirky and dangerous political angle. The shares are at less than 17 cents and the judge has clearly no courage to do the right thing.
Many hear can argue differently but the facts are that shareholders in Bear Stearns are at $10 and we stand at pennies.
There is NOT ONE piece of evidence to suggest that we will see the same positive outcome and see pennies turn into dollars. I would argue that our case because of the political implications mean we are less likely to see common shareholders recover because NO ONE will be willing to admit their HUGE MISTAKE and pay us back...
The outcome of the hearings that the press will spin is that WAMU was badly run, in heavy debt and ready to be taken over at any price....
thank goodness JPMC came along and bought it out to save a grateful nation!! Yes the fdic acted badly but what were they to do at such a crazy time. They acted in the best interests of the country and no one should be blamed. Thank heavens JD was willing to hqnd over such a huge amount of 1.8 billion for a failed bank because after all a dollar would have been enough to buy this failed bank..
All the expert posts on this board can't point to ONE, just ONE piece of evidence that the common shareholders will see recovery ala Bear Stearns.
Before i get jumped all over... I still wish that we see a huge payout but even with all the positive postings and DD, this judge just absolutely refuses to rule in our favor on the BIG STUFF..
There has to be a reason and this talk of behind the scenes settlement has proved over recent court dates to be completely untrue!!!
There is zero evidence to suggest common shareholders are in settlement talks...
My heart says diamond is 100% correct..
My head (and evidence presented in court so far) say's we are getting nothing. That fact is backed up by the market who also see that this share is worth around 16 cents.
Let's get real... if the money guys thought this was shooting to dollars they'd be buying millions and we'd be seeing 100 million share days each and every day.
Cashbuilder..I agree.
As much as I would like to think we'll see a few dollars, my take is the opposite to the recently up beat postings from many here. In fact those optomistic posters are the same people who always see potential settlement and BIG THINGS before a court date and then sadly we are ALWAYS dissapointed.
LETS FACE FACTS - EVEN WITH ALL COURT GOINGS ON - NOTHING HAS MOVED THE STOCK PRICE UP -NO HUGE VOLUME - WE all sit here at 16 cents a share...
MY TAKE IS THIS ... There are enough politicians that JD is in bed with that will protect him and the almighty JPMC... Look at the dirty dealings of DODD and many others at their mortgage deals with Countrywide - Can u just imagine what deals some of these crooked politicians have got done through JPMC???
Sadly the judge will not rule on anything for us until she is convinced the politicians will back her up and find fault with the whole mess. If she rules in our favor and then testimony says that the deal was actually kosher then she'll look a right idiot and will get over turned on appeal etc.
JPMC IMHO hasn't been scared over any of this for one reason.. They have put into place cover in WASHINGTON- who will protect the powerful and even though we can write and write and write some more about what a disgusting deal this was, nothing will get done and there will be zero justice at the end of all of this...
I'm praying that we can get back to maybe 50 cents so i can bale out before we all get so sadly disappointed again over just how evil and twisted these scumbags are.
There is no way on this earth anyone is going to bring down JPMC, they are just too entrenched in the USA and worldwide.
The fact the EC has been so, so quite and even refuses to say anything positive in a simple press release goes to show that we are not being served well as common shareholders. The EC in the end will help others but I believe just in 99% of all BK's we'll end up with ZERO.
My best hope is a solid movement before the 21st on some HOPE and then sell rather than make the same mistake as a few weeks ago..IMHO
Many here are of the opposite opinion and will continue to throw around dollar numbers, I've seen even $70 on this board. IMHO it's is absolute nonsense and there is zero, zero momentum, evidence or sign that we'll even see the original $8 offer..
I agree with diamond 100%
There r 3 options IMHO
1. The commons get screwed - Always possible (and don't fool yourself that it's not)
2. They allow the TRUE VALUE to be known - Then the stock will explode, something they've spent months avoiding and so highly unlikely
3. They ALL come to their senses and EVERYONE gets something, no ones completely happy but at least no one is left out, - This sis something the judge seems to be guiding everyone towards.
IMHO I just can't see the EC being allowed to present their case UNLESS there is nothing to argue for and the value is way less than anticipated and expected
Of course I could be wrong like everyone else on this board and we could be rehashing this same crap for the next 5 years!!!
The DD for the past year or so has been fabulous but now you guys are over thinking this thing..
It's real simple IMHO...
If JPMC are willing to have the world see a REAL valuation then they're in for the LONG FIGHT and are more than confident they can explain everything and WIN.
They may also be content that the valuation is way, way lower than stated on this board and are again happy to pay the low amount after a lengthy court battle knowing full well they'll make billions every month and come up smelling sweeter than roses....
IMHO if we get to the point where the valuation becomes public knowledge then it's not good for us.
There is zero reason JPMC would allow that to happen and allow the wamu share price to shoot through the roof based on a now public valuation of what they took down for under 2 billion.
If there's no settlement before that court date then IMHO we'll see next to nothing...
On the flip side it may be who blinks first and we could very well be nearing that stage!!!
Happy passover and happy easter to all..
Settlements are made over week-ends, this would have been a perfect one..
IMHO this BK is going to take years, not weeks or months to settle. Perhaps that's one of the important reasons joyce stepped aside, realizing her health is more important than the years ahead of battling JPMC.
Virtually EVERY poster on this board at one time or another thought this would be finished in 2009, here we all are no where near anything close to finishing.
Time is on JPMC side, they are under zero pressure to do anything. The press has given them a complete pass, the judge has done nothing to put REAL pressure on them, the money pundits r convinced the thing was settled 3 weeks ago and JD is under zero pressure. He knows he has enough powerful friends to protect him, ANYWAY he's looking forward to taking up his new job as treasury secretary just before the mid-terms when Obama shakes things up in the hopes of fooling the folks.
No, don't hate me but we'll all be waiting this time next easter for some glimpse of news to hold onto.
I'm in agreement with many of the previous posters who have been long on this stock, let's just have a dollar or two and get this over with...
diamonds numbers as much as they make sense will never be seen IMHO
WAMU back in business?
I don't think so...
First of all they were in negotiations to find a buyer which should tell everyone they were ready to move on.
Secondly, JPMC now have their hands on some prime banking real estate sites all across the USA especially in the South where they've wanted a footprint for years.
Now the bank signs have been changed, and they're establishing themselves as Chase, there is NO WAY they're giving all that up..
The only question we should be concerned about is what the COMPENSATION to common shareholders etc is going to be for what went on. IMHO there's nothing else going on here.
If and when the EC comes up with their DD then we'll have an idea of the REAL WORTH.
However I just can't see that being allowed to come to public light
The deal has to be done behind closed doors. Remember a settlement is not one sided, it is going to be give and take if this is to be wound up and decided before we all grow much older.
If diamondguru can find that the worth is 300 billion then surely the EC and UST will find similar numbers, it would seem really unlikely that JD wants the world to know that and all that went on.
Every long week-end we've thought 'this could be the one' and we've been disappointed. I doubt we we are close yet to final numbers but we're closer than we were a few weeks ago. The fact that millions of shares are still being traded tells the world that this is far from over..IMHO
CANT AFFORD THE TRUTH
The whole thing will become a farce soon and JD can't afford to have the true numbers become public knowledge IMHO
He can't afford for the EC to put forward their DD and announce to the world that the figures are 300 billion...
If diamonds just half right and the true cost of the theft was 150 billion how does JPMC argue the fact they got it for under 2 billlion?
The EC and the UST was allowed by the judge to look into the matter and she sure isn't going to dismiss their findings otherwise she's going to look real stupid...
So IMHO we're looking at a stop to this before our guys go to court and announce what they found out.
Unless we're all missing something here????
I just can't see how JPMC can allow public knowledge of the real cost of WAMU.
How r they going to explain being able to buy a solvent bank (worth 300 billion according to diamond guru's numbers) for under 2 billion??
The settlement IMHO surely must come before those figures become available for all to see and report on...
I'm convinced diamond is right now... We've been offered zero and the next offer will be around $2 maybe $3.
Millions will sell and JPMC will win again picking up all those cheap shares knowing that within a few weeks the real offer is on it's way at around $12.
Hang tight folks...
sorry climberprof, didn;t get a chance to reply earlier..
What changed my mind? I think generally things didn't add up until the past few weeks (around xmas time).
I still am uneasy about the final result however I'm satisfied I can afford to lose my investment if it all turns out badly and sours on all of us. I hate to lose money but it's a chance worth taking based on all we know.
I think the news is a little more positive about a settlement that may see commons in the money. I just don't trust the attorneys and this is very, very political.
The stakes r huge, and we r not living in the old USA where the rules were the rules and most people knew roughly where they stood.
We have the crazies running the asylum and so anything could happen. Under normal circumstances this would be a slam dunk for us.
SETTLEMENT
I agree, if the EC know the numbers and r truly working to have common shareholders see some justice then they know that WAMU turned down $7.82 from JPMC because they felt it was worth more at that time.
Now, who knows what the true value was, but I personally would think that around $10-$!2 would be a starting point to end this debacle and begin a new day.
Coming out clean will see this stock, maybe double or treble within 6-12 months IMHO
So come on everyone, can we all just do the deal, settle this nonsense and can we all move on with our lives???
Lifes too short too worry about a few dollars here or there...
Exactly, I know I've been a little a-hole these past few months with some stupid postings but it's been an emotional ride and funds are tight and no one likes losing money, I don't care how much or how little you have..
I decided to focus in and stay put and be prepared to lose what i can afford to etc.. I've been adding at these low prices because this thing just doesn't make any sense to me anymore. Millions of shares are still being bought even after the crap from a couple of weeks ago?
If the EC has possibly turned down $1 or $2 (speculation from a previous poster) that tells me two things..
1. We're now talking about dollars and not pennies
2. We'd be crazy not to buy at these low prices if we are indeed looking at even only $2!!
Again, personally my shares are not going to be sold. I think a starting settlement of $10 would be great. The market would be happy and we'd see those shares double if not treble within 6 months.
I think those that know the POR was a POS will discount it and buy more tomorrow, while others who don't quite understand WMB v WMi will be selling.
My friends we're in for a crazy ride.. Perhaps diamond is right and today is the day and we all wake up tomorrow with dollars instead of pennies.
I think this personally will never make huge headlines anymore. The public and media are happy with the fact that JPMC has settled with WAMU (last weeks news) and numbers etc now are meaningless and will be less than a blip if and when the final numbers are announced.
The general public have zero idea what's going on here and don't care one tiny bit. Like many of you I've tried to explain this to friends and family members and all i get is a blank stare and then 'it's bankrupt why are you buying that crap'?
Hey, they may end up being the smart ones, who knows only time will tell...
SPECULATION
To all those newbies on the board talking about this stock dropping to under 10 cents etc.What r u expecting? A mad panic by us here and we're selling off??
I'm not sure what your game is but you're just wasting your time and energy posting this garbage. Most people here have been through the roller coaster of emotions with this stock for months and we're here for the final decisions.
We know this is a lottery ticket and anything can happen but if I'm lucky enough to see this dropping to 10 cents or under I'm a BUYER not a SELLER!
20000 shares at 10 cents is $2000 - Would I be upset if I lost it all, yes I would but I can make that money up over the next few months, it won't change my life. BUT if that 20000 shares are settled at say $10 then that's a chance I'm willing to take!!
I'm happy with what I've got invested here and yes I'm prepared to lose it all but if the game on Monday is to drive this to single digits then I'm not going to miss another fantastic buying opportunity.
We know this could easily climb back to 25-50 cents in a blink of an eye and with very little news.
I confess all the speculation on the board is just becoming very boring now. It's the same thing over and over again. I love the enthusiasm but no one here knows if we're going to get screwed or not. The chances are we'll all be pissing and moaning about how we lost money and this was all BS etc etc...
HOWEVER, this may still turn out to be a story we'll be telling our grand-kids about..
Personally, I'm gambling that the EC can at least extract the amount JPMC were willing to pay pre-seizure that being around $8 a share for commons. If we can get more then that would be a tremendous bonus.
If diamonds right then I'll be giving a nice hefty sum to some well deserving charities...
Anonymous.. That was hard work to put together and an amazing job.
BUT.. JPM IS COOKING THE BOOKS !! EXCUSE ME???
R U THAT SURPRISED??[color=red][/color]
THEY STOLE A 300 BILLION DOLLAR COMPAN FOR 1,8 BILLION
Do you really think their books would be KOSHER???
Let's not fool purselves here, the common shareholders should be seeing $30/$40 even $50 dollars and above for compensation etc for everything that went on here.
However a few weeks ago before EC, UST stepped in we were going to get screwed 100% and get nothing, zero, not one red cent!!
This is high stakes against the most powerful people and organizations not just in the USA but worldwide, this has GLOBAL IMPLICATIONS...
The chances of us getting anything still remain remote HOWEVER there's no where in the world u can buy a lottery ticket for just 15 cents so I'M BUYING!!!
I'm with you..
Anything around 10 cents or less is a steal for people that have been following this for some time. If you're still here, you're in it for the final act and even though the stock fluctuation is upsetting some times we're so used to it that I have started to pay hardly any attention to it.
Even though we still have a great chance against all odds to get some dollars, this to me is still a lottery play (with perhaps more chance). With that in mind and even though I don't have a great deal of funds left I think 10000-15000 shares at 10 cents or less is just a tremendous chance to average down even further and have some more to play with..
We all know this could shoot up to 25 cents or higher in a blink of an eye with some positive news so even if you're flipping those low prices are bargains.
I know there's no one on this board going to be selling at these crazy low prices so by all means those attorneys can play their stupid games, go ahead mm's take this down and help me make some money.
I'm slowly accumulating, prepared to either win or lose.
BTW... Is there a time limit when this case has to leave BK court. Surely the judge has to call it a day at some point and decide everything. Does anyone know when that final date is or do we just grow old together wishing and praying for diamonds $12++
I'm not sure what and if a settlement will be coming anytime soon. What's the longest this can drag out, didn't I read in some earlier posts some months ago this could take 10 years or more?? I HOPE NOT!!
I feel that if $7.82 was turned down pre-seizure that's the least that should be acceptable PLUS if proven the bank was stolen then perhaps some compensation.
I just get the feeling this is going to get more complicated and nastier NOT easier and quicker to solve...
Unfortunately, all this speculation and comparison to lehman and that the stock may be halted and $12++ etc etc... is silly, especially when you consider the same things were written BEFORE the EC stepped in and extended this process for all of us, keeping the dream alive.
The one fact (not speculation) THAT WE KNOW is that the commons WERE 100% going to get screwed out of anything just a few weeks ago before the UST and EC and judge stepped in so this projection of $12++ would have been absolute nonsense wouldn't it?
I love diamonds enthusiam and I hope he's absolutely right.