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Preciouslife,
Thanks for your note of encouragement. I agree 100%.
mbmun,
I think you're right. I just confirmed with my broker, that my limit orders are in place at the price point of .0004, and they are not set to "all or none" (which, I was supposing, might be an erroneous parameter which might contribute to of this odd tape we're seeing, but that's not the cause of it.)
It appears that DNAPrint Genomics is, in fact, raising much-needed funds by selling some shares, as I had hoped. (I'd hate to see them go without the funds, when I'm willing to buy, especially at these prices -- just look at that market cap! ridiculously low! -- and I want to see DNAPrint Genomics succeed.) I called the registrar this morning, and the outstanding share count is currently: 1,238,790,465.2
(Up from 1,213,790,465.2 on October 8.)
Correlating with the volume we're seeing, I think it's safe to say, the company is either issuing and then selling these shares directly on the market, or is issuing them, transferring them to another party (in lieu of a paycheck, perhaps, or in exchange for needed cash,) and that party (or parties) is selling some of them on the market. Either way, it's looking good for DNAG. Good luck to all!
> and the .0003 are very small volume and still brings it
> down..
> MMs are playing i think
"frogdreaming," That is incorrect. When someone places a buy limit order which is higher than the current bid, that normally causes the bid to increase to the new bid price. We're seeing sales below the highest bid price, which is _not_ normally how the market works. Bid and ask are not supposed to be arbitrary and ignored at a whim. The normal behavior can easily be observed by watching live quotes (including bid/ask data,) and through services like the following, where you see how bid and ask are formed/delimited, by people's limit orders:
http://datasvr.tradearca.com/arcadataserver/ArcaBook.php
Today's trading is strange... I have limit orders in at .0004, that have apparently not been honored. I'm trying to contact my broker, to see what's going on. We're seeing trading between .0003 and (now) .0005. I'm not surprised by the upside, but how can there be transactions at .0003, when my .0004 limit orders haven't been filled?
Share count I picked up today: 15,471,035
Today's total volume: 33,321,307
bag8ger,
Thanks!
"frogdreaming,"
Of course, I'm a 10% beneficial owner, and thus an "insider" in that sense only. That does not, however, mean that I have insider information. The SEC is not that retarded.
learner1156,
Yeah, no kidding! I could have provided the funding they need, just by myself! But alas... At least I have massive gains from certain stocks, this year, that allows me to buy a lot more DNAG shares. I follow the Buffett strategy of investment, but I'm obviously a smaller fish. I also tend to be a bit more extreme than he is, in buying extremely undervalued stocks (higher risk, but much higher potential reward.) I don't always buy at "the bottom," but I often do. Hopefully, my fortunate trades this year, and purchases of DNAG stock, will help DNAG turn the corner in this tough financial period.
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
I've picked up 15,000,272 additional shares of DNAG, so far, today. It's a very good day.
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
"frogdreaming," that sounds scary, if I were to believe it, but I don't think so.
If I don't have insider information, I cannot be prosecuted for improperly acting on insider information. For example, there could be just wondrous things going on behind the scenes, but I'm not aware of them, so I'm still buying, and not subject to the restrictions on misuse of inside information. I don't have any inside information. Besides, if every person who, in the course of averaging down, became a 10% owner of a security, was subject to the restriction you allege, then it would be purely chance, and purely outside of the person's awareness, whether or not that person would be in violation! Ridiculous. That is not the reality, clearly. Just as an employee may buy and sell the stock issued by his/her employer, as long as he doesn't have inside information that would give him/her an illegal advantage (I know because I was in that situation before,) I am free to average down as much as I want, as long as inside information provisions are not breached.
I know there is a restriction regarding selling my shares earlier than 6 months after purchase, but who cares? I'm in this for the long haul, and I've been accumulating shares for more than 1 year. I could sell those shares I purchased more than 6 months ago, now, if I wanted to. I don't want to, and I've never sold a single share of DNAG.
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
Thanks for those links, Superbee. There aren't any restrictions mentioned on those pages, beyond what I already knew about, via my broker and my own research. I'm in exactly the situation I want to be, with DNAG. I'm interested in anything else you find out, of course.
Thanks again,
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
learner1156,
No, that's not me. It's someone else with a similar name, there are several of us in the Portland area.
learner1156,
Thanks, and you're welcome!
Superbee,
That's interesting. I look forward to reading what you report, on this. But note, even if I can acquire inside information, I'm not sure I would want to do it, because having inside information can be a legal liability, in investing. If I bought or sold at "the wrong time," I could be in legal hot water, and that doesn't sound pleasant. I may just prefer to keep things how they are. I'm already more than convinced that DNAPrint Genomics is making sincere and energetic efforts, to become profitable, so I don't really need any further information, to convince me of that.
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
Yes, I'm increasing my DNAG holdings. I just filed another Form 4 today, reporting my ownership of 161,233,752 shares.
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
Sam,
Thanks, once again, for your valuable posts, here. It's nice to see, the good news continues to emerge!
Have a great one,
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
"frogdreaming,"
Yet again: Substantiate _all_ of the claims you made in that message. Yes, I mean _all_. Don't ask me to define what the word _all_ means.
P.S., to everyone else, my postings for the day, with my free account, have been exhausted. Please don't take my temporary silence, after this message, to imply agreement with anything "frogdreaming" may post. The system says I can post more messages "after midnight." Good luck to all, and I hope you all have a great day!
Sincerely,
Daniel Gannon
Portland, Oregon, USA
"frogdreaming,"
You made a number of claims in that message. I challenged you to prove, or substantiate, all of them. You have substantiated none of them. Calling on the Appeal to Authority fallacy, and trying to re-construe/misconstrue/obfuscate what you claimed, will gain you nothing in this. Substantiate your claims. Or do you expect us to just believe everything you claim, just because you claim it? Please deal with the task at hand. Look at what you claimed. Substantiate it, each of those claims. For easy reference, here is the message in which you made these claims:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=33087444
"frogdreaming,"
Then you are making unsupported claims, that you refuse to support.
I made that clear. Now prove it.
All of the claims you made in that message. Don't be sly.
"frogdreaming,"
Then prove it. All of it. I don't believe any of it. Where's your proof? Or at least, some kind of evidence?
All indications that I have seen distinctly point in the opposite direction, as your claims.
Interesting. These buy orders of mine (at .0004) have been in for more than a month. So, any buy orders at .0004 that were submitted within the past month, that are filled, are filled out of order. I had always been told that it was first-come, first-served, but apparently not... at least, not always.
Mbmun,
Congrats! This also answers the question, of whether the buy limit orders are always filled in order (first come, first served,) or are sometimes filled out of order. I can surmise that they are being filled out of order, because I know I put my .0004 buy limit orders in, first. (When I did so, the price was .0003, and my buy limit orders at .0003 had stopped getting me any shares, so I raised my limit.) I'm actually glad your order was filled, but the out-of-order fills are a little puzzling. If DNAG's market maker is actually a computer program, I wonder if this is the norm for many other stocks, as well.
bag8ger,
I think averaging down is an important practice, with any promising R&D stock, whether it's in pennyland or on the big board.
I think it's wise to avoid using all your powder at once (hold back for those averaging-down opportunities,) and keep an eye on value. If the company's value (factoring in potential and likely outcomes,) is no longer greater than its market cap, then of course, it no longer makes sense to average down, with that stock. I think DNAG is definitely worth _much_ more than its market cap.
"frogdreaming,"
So, according to what you just said, you are 100% against the principle of how publicly traded R&D companies operate. They are publicly traded, so they can raise needed funding by selling shares. People buy those shares, when they think the prospects are good, and the shares are a good value. Obviously, averaging down is an important part of wise investing in R&D stocks. It's difficult to predict the moment when the R&D company becomes profitable, and the goal is to average down relatively close to the time that it does so, to maximize your potential returns. DNAG is no different. It's not DNAG's fault, that you have this philosophical issue with R&D stocks.
> Any stock that is dumping shares to pay the bills can have only one direction, the laws of supply and demand automatically dilute the value of each share as each new share is added to the OS. When a company has no other revenue source than the printing and dumping of shares, the pps has only one direction available to it. To 'average down' under such conditions is tantamount to setting your money on fire. LOL
I finally did receive 1,000,150 shares today, at .0004. It appears the Market Maker is keeping most of them, that were sold for .0004, in the last couple of days.
Dilutive horrors like that do not apply to all stocks, obviously.
Note that, even after massive dilution, if/when an R&D company becomes profitable, a person who averaged down wisely and within his means, would tend to ultimately see a large % profit. One key is being able to discern which companies will likely be winners, and which ones likely will not. And the difference is not only up to the company, it's also up to the shareholders to appropriately support that company (I'm talking about _all_ publicly traded R&D companies, here. If the company is worth supporting, it's the investors' loss if they don't support it properly.)
This worst-case scenario of yours, the 1 billion shares turning into 1 share, is one of never averaging down, it's important to note. Of course, most shareholders aren't that patient, and don't average down consistently. But I am that patient, and I am averaging down, in a big way. I see a lot more value in DNAG, than its current market cap. A whole lot more. It's a company that deserves to succeed, and has come a long way, already. You don't abandon ship when you're so close to the destination, not if you want to see success. Successfully playing this game takes discipline, and conviction with regard to the company's most likely ultimate value. We shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket, ever, and if we follow these simple principles, success comes more often than not. (Except for people who aren't smart enough to do investing, and there are lots of those.)
I'm much more worried about manipulation in the stock market, especially as it pertains to vulnerable R&D companies, than I am about that fact of life we call dilution. It's not something to fear, it's something to take into account when devising and executing strategies. Manipulation, on the other hand, is rightly illegal, and has grown far out of control, in recent years, robbing and victimizing investors and companies beyond belief, dooming many companies that well deserved to succeed. No wonder the American economy is declining, relative to much of the world. We don't adequately protect our precious start-up companies, the R&D's included. What a shame, what a crime it is.
P.S., there are multiple reasons I'm buying so many DNAG shares, now. One is, I think the stock is extremely, extremely undervalued, and I'm averaging down aggressively. Also, I think the company is going through a tough time right now, and any help they can get, potentially means more now, than it might at any other time. I want the company to succeed. Also, the stock market is so full of negativity and manipulation, now, many stocks are very, very undervalued now, making this a good time to buy stocks that you would otherwise think are good stocks, anyway. (Many, many stocks are currently cheap.) Also, the credit markets are beginning to thaw, meaning new funding for DNAPrint might not be that far off, and I think that as a business, they stand a good chance of becoming profitable in the next few years (if not sooner.) No guarantee, but I think it's worth the risk. (High risk with potentially very, very high reward.)
The Market Maker is still apparently keeping the shares that have been sold at .0004, yesterday and today. My pre-existing limit orders ("first come, first served," supposedly,) have only caught 150 of them. I see this as another sign that the stock remains extremely, extremely undervalued.
DNAPrint Genomics' forensics products appear more vitally needed, now, than ever:
LAPD seeks lab-procedure improvements
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
By Miriam Hernandez
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=6465226
LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Two of the Los Angeles Police Department's high-tech crime labs are under fire. Police Chief William Bratton has formed a task force to investigate why some technicians misidentified evidence, falsely implicating people in crimes.
LAPD's lab technicians don't carry guns but they do catch criminals.
"DNA's now become the principle method by which one of the main ways we use to identify suspects," said criminalist Guy Holloman.
Yet the DNA lab is underfunded and under fire because of a backlog of 7,000 cases. Evidence sits in freezers. Some cases are more than 10 years old, passing their statute of limitations. At a separate LAPD lab, a similar problem: The Latent Print Unit needs more analysts too.
"Right now we have about a nine-month backlog, so it's about 3,000 cases waiting to be processed through the Los Angeles Automated Fingerprint Identification System," said Denise Williams, Latent Print Unit.
A shakeup is under way because of previous poor oversight. One analyst was fired and several disciplined after two people were accused of crimes they didn't commit. Both labs demand perfection.
"You can't speed through something, or through a case, or through any analysis, because you don't want to make mistakes," said criminalist Shannon Kelly.
But processing is time-consuming: four hours just to label and document samples, and much longer to heat and isolate DNA.
"Digestion and extraction process takes anywhere from a day to three days," said Holloman.
It will take weeks to process it into an image that can be uploaded and compared to other images.
"And that typically takes about a week before I know whether it's going to match somebody or not," said criminalist Nick Sanchez.
Elapsed plan time, three weeks. LAPD's plan is to hire 16 more criminalists. They are banking on funding from the City Council. At the Latent Print Unit, proficiency tests will be conducted twice a year and there will be more audits for quality control.
"The biggest thing is just getting us more staff in order to meet the demands that have really been hitting us hard," said Williams.
What?
Good news -- the credit markets are continuing to thaw. This could help greatly with DNAPrint Genomics' search for new funding. In the meantime, I'm hoping the millions of shares I'm buying, will help. I see a tremendous amount of value in this company, that is not nearly adequately reflected in its market cap.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7waFYSdmhXo&refer=home
Short-Term Borrowing Rates Fall to Four-Year Low on Fed Efforts
By Bryan Keogh
Oct. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Corporate short-term borrowing costs plunged after the Federal Reserve accelerated efforts to unlock the commercial paper market by providing loans to money-market funds that buy the debt.
Rates on the highest-ranked 30-day commercial paper dropped 1.46 percentage points, the most on record, to 1.92 percent, according to yields offered by companies and compiled by Bloomberg. Rates on overnight and 90-day paper also declined.
The Fed committed yesterday to provide as much as $540 billion in loans to relieve pressure on money-market funds, its third action since the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. contributed to the credit freeze that threatens to tip the economy into a prolonged recession. The backstops are ``having a major effect,'' Tony Crescenzi, chief bond-market strategist at Miller Tabak & Co. LLC in New York, wrote in a note to clients.
``It's almost completely backstopped now, both by the private sector and the Federal Reserve, and rates should fall in line,'' Crescenzi said in an interview today.
Citigroup Inc., the second-biggest U.S. bank, today posted a rate of 3.22 percent on 30-day commercial paper, down from 3.6 percent on Oct. 20 and the lowest in four weeks. American Express Co., the biggest U.S. credit-card company by purchases, cut its rate to 2.25 percent from 2.3 percent, the lowest since June 3.
The highest-rated companies are now issuing more longer-term paper after Lehman's bankruptcy left most companies, particularly banks, unable to issue debt due in more than one day. Commercial paper, which typically matures in 270 days or less, is used by companies to finance payroll, rent and other daily expenses.
Issuance of commercial paper due in more than 20 days averaged $31.9 billion on Oct. 20 and 21, or 17 percent of the total, compared with 9 percent two weeks ago, according to Fed data. One- to four-day issuance averaged $139.3 billion, or 75 percent of the total, down from 82 percent two weeks ago.
New York Fed
JPMorgan Chase & Co. will run five special units that will buy certificates of deposit, bank notes and commercial paper issued by highly rated financial companies with a remaining maturity of 90 days or less under the Market Investor Funding Facility.
Borrowers were able to begin registering Oct. 20 for the Commercial Paper Funding Facility, which the Federal Reserve Bank of New York created Oct. 7 to inject liquidity into the market and ensure companies can borrow short-term debt.
On Sept. 19, the Fed created a program to allow banks to buy commercial paper backed by assets from affiliated money market funds and exempted banks from capital requirements related to holding the debt.
Rates on overnight commercial paper fell 4 basis points to a record low 0.74 percent, while 90-day yields declined 18 basis points to 3.31 percent, Bloomberg data show.
The cost of borrowing in dollars in London for three months fell for an eighth day. The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for the loans dropped 29 basis points to 3.54 percent, according to the British Bankers' Association. A basis point is 0.01 percentage point.
To contact the reporter on this story: Bryan Keogh in New York at bkeogh4@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: October 22, 2008 12:55 EDT
No, I didn't get any of these shares. The volume was low, but still... who got them? The Market Maker, I guess, is holding onto them. Either that, or the Market Maker is filling buy limit orders out-of-order. (Supposed to be first-come, first-served, but I've heard that sometimes these things don't occur as one would assume.)
Hopefully I'll get more shares tomorrow.
Real funny. I'm buying because I see value, not because I want emails. But, be my guest, buy for whatever reason.
Or, better yet, sell your shares to me, all of them, if you have any. I'm buying.
Hmmm, I'm not getting any more shares yet, today. I'm still buying at .0004, through my pre-existing limit orders. I suppose the Market Maker is hanging onto all the shares that were sold today. This could be interesting, to see how it plays out.
Just so people don't get the idea that I'm being silent and somehow agreeing with "frogdreaming" -- I posted a rebuttal.
"frogdreaming,"
As Buffett says, "Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful." In other words, snatch victory from the jaws of would-be defeat.
With DNAPrint, every little bit of funding (including funding from sales of shares, even at these extremely low prices,) can potentially make all the difference. All the more reason to buy shares now. While others are too fearful to do it, that gives me my biggest opportunity. As I mentioned before, this is an integral part of my strategy. I've bought several stocks at their bottoms, this year. Several home runs. That's why I'm able to buy more DNAG shares. Sometimes I do relatively short-term trades, but for me, the "holy grail" is an extremely undervalued stock that I can buy at (or close to) the bottom, hold for a year or more, and sell later at much higher prices, with the lower long-term capital gains tax rate. DNAG is one of my favorites, for this. My other favorite is FNM (Fannie Mae.) There are a lot of undervalued stocks out there, but those are my two favorites, currently. While others may be afraid of long-term investing (a foolish fear, to say the least,) I view their aversion as being yet another advantage for me, giving me even better prices, and leveraging me into that tax-advantageous situation I always seek.
DNAG isn't at .0002 any more, that's for sure.
I guess it's extremely puzzling to some people, when someone does exactly what they say they're going to do, and doesn't lie one bit, about his/her motives. (Psychologists call it "projection," when someone subconsciously tends to assume that other people think, feel, and behave, as he/she does. A classic error.) R&D companies need funding, and I'm mature enough to realize that. I think DNAPrint may be very close to becoming profitable, but I have all the patience in the world. The potential gains are well worth the wait.
Sentiment: Extremely strong buy.
"frogdreaming,"
I hope so. I hope they're deriving the needed funds, to complete the annual report, etc. If I'm helping in that regard, all the better! Snatching victory from the jaws of would-be defeat is the very epitome of value investing. Plus, with their market cap so low, my money is really buying me something. (Reverse split? Not scary at all!) Investing seriously in DNAG is a calculated risk I'm very willing to take. I'm grateful for the opportunity.
> The company has only a couple of months to file an annual report and seek to have their corporate dissolution reversed by the State of Florida, do you think the timing of these events is related?
Sam1933,
Good. But that's not my primary purpose; my primary purpose is buying value. Everyone is so scared of a reverse split? Please... These people should never buy an R&D stock again, in their lifetimes. Leave it to the pros, I say. These things take understanding and patience, and R&D companies need funding. DNAPrint Genomics does already have some products on the market, it's worth noting, and a lot of very significant intellectual property. A lot of value has been built up in DNAG. The company has used their money wisely, which is exactly what an R&D company is supposed to do. I'm proud of them. I don't spread my money around indiscriminately.