Linda is biotch...! LOLz JayKay
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Jaxstraw: Thank you for the informative summary. Much appreciated. eom
Good post!. eom
I agree with everything you posted, however, some on this board are using the 8.25% bonds as an indicator for "their" recovery for their "common" shares, which I mentioned was not a good indicator because of the distance between 8.25% bond and common shareholders (re: absolute priority).
For the common shareholders who want to an indicator, imo, needs to use the 3.25% bonds because of the proximity to common shareholders.
Once, again, I agree with everything you posted.
Thanks
imo
Patriot filed BK protection because Patriot had two major customers that defaulted and some of Patriot's debt are maturing. When Patriot tried to refinance the coming maturity of debt, no one would finance them except for DIP financing.
imo
He has WAMUQ, not WAHUQ. It is too late. The time has passed. eom/imo
If you have to ask that question today, then that means you are fudged. Sorry. No recourse. eom
They are not trying to get rid of the Union (but it is a good idea), they are going to renegotiate contracts, liabilities, vesting, etc. re: Union.
imio
Submitting when hedgies bought what and when has happened in other bankruptcies as well.
This is just like any other bankruptcy. The template is always the same. There is no cap on distribution on an allowed claim.
The only time you see someone getting less than what they are claiming is when the file a settlement in the court docket stating such.
The siphoning from lower subordinate classes is all boil plate. That is the same in all bankruptcies.
If you have played bk's before, then this is all routine, with slight differences.
imo
Did you think the PPS was going to up after BK? Keep buying those "cheapos".
It is not who bought or who sold, it is about supply and demand. imo/eom
Well, looking at just this link, we know the selling is contributed to at least 1 factor:
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/PCXCQ/tab/8
Union wants to change jurisdiction because it would be more favorable to the Union.
One of Patriot's main focus is "legacy costs" associated with the Union.
Yup, this BK is going to be about the Unions vs. the other creditors. That is why New York is more important for the creditors and West Virginia is for the Union.
There is a reason why Patriot chose New York as jurisdiction.
imo
Wait, thanks for sharing that. I was never ever fond of the Unions, even though my father is a former Union worker, retired. Once again, thanks for sharing.
No, he just got a new ATM card and is excited to be able to use it soon. eom
So I decided to look up CEMJQ in regards to you saying the EC was appointed AFTER a POR was proposed.
From my quick and limited research, your statement does not seem to be accurate.
Equity committee appointment:
http://www.chemturacommittee.info/Disclosure.pdf
I did not follow CEMJQ, so I cannot comment as you mentioned that an EC was formed after a POR w/ equity out of the money. I can only assume it was because assets were very close to liabilites or there was fraud involved.
imo
Huh????!!!??!?!?!?!?? Do you know what a POR is?
Really, are you sure? (after disclosure statement) PORs are voted on by the stakeholders that are unimpaired by the POR, then a confirmation hearing, then the Judge puts in his/her 2 cents, etc.
So you are sayinig if the POR comes out that says equity is out of the money by $800 million, the Judge will say, "NO, lets use the creditors money to fund an "out of the money" equity committee"? It does not work like that.
Like I said, if you wait for the POR to come out and it show equity is out of the money, then it is too late for an EC. [UNLESS the assets are soooo close that equity might be thrown a bone, if there was enough opposition OR fraud was evident]
Bankruptcy court is for creditors, first and for most, not equity.
imo of course.
... because when the POR comes out and it does not include shareholders, then it is basically too late for an EC.
As far the assets are more than liabilities, it may not be entirely accurate because:
We all know the Petition stated there was $500 million equity (Assets vs. liabilities). However, it does not include off balance sheet liabilities, the DIP financing of $800 million that was put in front of almost everyone else in the BK, the army of attorneys billing the Estate is burning though, the valuation experts/firm, restructuring firms, etc.
Patriot's $500 million equity just went poof.
...but, you never know what can happen in BK... I know that some liabilities can be pushed back to Peabody, the parent company that spun off patriot in 2007, Union contracts can be negotiated, contracts to deliver coal that has been unprofitable can be negotiated/canceled, etc.
The end result... will be the POR.
I for some, reality is harsh and it is difficult to know when to cut loses.
imo of course.
Great, they BARELY started to get off their Azz to retain someone! (Someone probably felt guilty collecting a salary all this time and realized... hmm... "I better do something and look busy". )
My favorite part:
I agree, Unions use to serve a purpose at one time way back when, however, today's climates has changed and imo, they are now relentless blood suckers.
To me, Union is Union no matter what, however, I would not work in a mine.
imo
You sound like you are Pro-Union. (Nothing wrong with that, but it depends on who you ask).
Hopefully, the the Union here will not get special treatment like they did in Government Motors.
The more the Union gets/takes here, the further equity falls into the abyss.
Ya, they filed bk because two (2) customers defaulted on a contract.
imo
Yup, this BK is going to be the Union vs. the other creditors, with the shareholders on the outskirts.
So, 3 vs. 2.
Petition was filed in New York because it favors the bond/debt vs. the Union.
imo
8.25% Bonds hit new high $50.625, and 3.25% bonds hit new high $16.00 eom
Creditors Committee:
Great realistic post! eom
8.25% bond hit $48.xx, new high; 3.25% bond hit $15, new high. eom
nvm, inappropriate. haha
"I hear ya"....
It is best to start from the top, i.e. senior bonds all the way down to commons for buying opportunities right after they file BK.
Commons are usually a bounce play and then as more info comes out then it is just trading. They usually do not survive. They wouldn't be filing BK if there was equity. (Although rare, Growth Properties or something like, commons did survive, but the company was only in a liquidity crunch).
Here, the BK petition listed about $500 million equity, however, that does not account for off balance sheet liabilities.
Factor in DIP financing at $800 million which is now the 1st and 2nd secured liens on the assets, the time in BK burning through money, interest accruing, attorneys billing the estate, etc., then you are negative equity.
I, myself, bought 3.25% senior unsecured bonds as a lottery. These 3.25's are the bottom of the barrel since there are no subordinates, preferred shares, trust prefferds, etc.
However, if Patriot can manage to throw enough liabilities back to the former parent company (Peabody) that spunoff patriot, negotiates with the Unions, and reorganize fast, there might be a possibility for old commons to survive, but I am not betting any money on it.
imo of course.
Iheart: Thanks, for pointing out where you got that from.
Keep in mind that is from the Debtor, however, bankruptcy provisions allow for post-petition interest to be accrued on creditor claims, i.e. bond holders, especially senior bond holders.
This is the for all BK's if there is enough funds for distribution for creditors to be paid in full, plus pre-petition and post-petition interest.
imo
FYI: While bond interest is not paid during BK, they still accrue during the entire BK process.
imo
Dpincus: Be aware that the 8.25% bonds are not a good indicator because they are basically secured by substantially all assets of Patriot's subsidiaries/assets and they are far up the food chain and very distand from commons.
The better indicator is the 3.25 bonds because they are unsecured and are closer to commons, but still have senior priority above commons.
imo
It has been a while since following anything WAMU/WMI, however, the last I recall, once the senior creditors' interest accrued is paid in full, the waterfall will start to trickle to H.
imo
Yes, the last check/disbursement was for Class 12.
As for the other classes, Class 17 has been paid in full. Others either require payment, already paid or ??? I have not been keeping track since it is going to be a while, as in years... and it only effects the Washington Mutual stake holders who voted/released.
May be someone else who is actively tracking the WMI Trust Litigation can fill you in.
I have to go out now.
Chow.
imo