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Here you go OTC:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/14877/1/TDS-Cameron-Crypt.wmv
As the atheist of the group, I tend to find a lot of humor in religion, and this is pretty damn funny.
Jesus-Mary/Miram were common names during this age. I dont think the crypts mean much, just as I dont think the Bible should be taken seriously, let alone literally.
Uninsured Working Families
Bush Avoids Talk About Child Health Care
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/26/AR2007022600255.html
WASHINGTON -- President Bush encouraged governors Monday to support his call for changing the tax code to help more people buy private health care insurance, but did not address their pleas to increase funding for a health care program that insures millions of children of the working poor.
Still, governors said they heard words of at least partial compromise from the administration on a budget dispute that dominated private discussions among governors Sunday.
At stake is coverage for 6 million people, overwhelmingly children, as well as the hopes of many governors in tackling the larger challenge of the uninsured. All governors rely on the State Children's Health Insurance Program, intended to aid uninsured working families.
Bush, welcoming the governors after they met privately with several administration officials, did not offer any comments about the children's health program, talking rather about his larger proposals.
"I'm looking forward to working with Congress on health care. I firmly believe ... that states are often times the best place to reform systems and work on programs that meet needs," he said.
But Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt "made it clear that the administration will work with Congress as far as" short-term shortfalls, said North Dakota Gov. John Hoeven, a Republican. Governors say 14 states could run out of cash before October. In Georgia, it could happen as soon as March.
The governors want two things:
_Enough money to keep the program afloat through October. That is estimated at $745 million.
_Changes to Bush's budget. Analysts say his spending plan would shortchange the health program even if the number of people served did not grow. The long-term shortfall is put at $10 billion to $15 billion over the next five years.
Gov. Jon Corzine, a New Jersey Democrat, warned that the administration's budget promised illusory savings. "You end up paying for this in other ways _ uncompensated care, emergency rooms," Corzine said. "This is pay me now or pay me later."
Corzine said he still wanted more clarity from administration officials on support for the short-term funding, but said Leavitt had offered words of compromise.
But the long-term issues over the program remained in dispute, governors said.
The program, approved in 1997, covers uninsured children whose families earn too much to fall under Medicaid, the joint state-federal health care service for the poor.
More than a dozen states have expanded SCHIP, with consent of the federal government, to cover adults in those families. The program now insures an estimated 639,000 adults among its 6 million.
Many governors said the administration's efforts to scale back the program would undermine state efforts to craft universal health care plans. Many of these have started with a target of insuring all children.
California, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania have developed some of the most ambitious proposals to try to get to universal health care coverage. Most states have just tried to strengthen their health care system to cover more people.
At their private session Sunday, governors said there was bipartisan support for help on the immediate needs and a long-term commitment to the current program.
Leavitt said Sunday that there is enough money among states to cover short-term shortfalls, if states with surpluses would share with those with deficits, an idea that has little support among governors. Bush wants SCHIP to remain focused on poor children, not all children and not adults, Leavitt said.
Gov. Ed Rendell, D-Pa., said he was confident that a compromise on the money can be found. He said the administration has been helpful to his efforts to expand coverage and approved a waiver that would let the state cover 180,000 more children. "I want to give the administration high praise," he said.
But most were worried. In Rhode Island, GOP Gov. Don Carcieri said aggressive enrollment efforts had boosted their combined Medicaid and SCHIP program so that 94 percent of children were covered, at its height, before administrative hurdles and other problems caused some backsliding.
"We built all that up," Carcieri said. "We don't want to pull the rug out."
I love America.
These folks have guts. They walk into Senator Patty Murray's (D-WA) and demand the Police Chief place her under arrest.
Now, we just need a Police Chief who will follow through.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5177536367412092089
"Lets add healthcare now!"
Havent we already added it. I mean, we already pay for those who cannot afford care through increased costs for services, premiums, deductables. We pay for everyone anyway.
And because they are all going to the ER, and not getting preventative care, the costs are increased again.
So why not offer single payer coverage for those without insurance? They can pay a premium depending on their income. The enormous volume of participants would reduce the overall liability.
I dont know what other solution there is at this point. The ER in our town is nuts. There is a 6 hour wait in there 24 hours a day. And most of those people have no insurance, and no ability to pay.
You're right.
And I'm not sure how to overcome that one.
I guess I'm an idealist at heart.
Len, We are the Government.
Government by and of the people. The Government serves many purposes now, and I agree that it does not perform all of these services well, and should not be involved in every area.
Nick Dupree is disabled, and provides a unique and valuable perspective on this principle of conservatism that vilifies the government instead of working to fix it.
I think FEMA should be the best emergency management agency in the world. I want our citizens to be protected and safe in the event of an emergency. We certainly seem to have enough of them.
Same with the FAA, our Police and Fire services. And our schools. I want them to be the best, and I dont think they should be the best for the rich.
Health care is a mess. We have to fix it. We cant allow our citizens, poor, and elderly to forced away from medical care because it costs too much.
Instead of using demagoguery and terms like socialism and communism, we should be holding the people who allow OUR government to be run so poorly accountable. And doing everything we can to find honest people to uphold the social contract.
You didnt answer the question.
Is the FAA a socialist program?
Is paying for our roads, highways, bridges, police, fire, elections services socialism?
Does the government have a social contract with its constituents?
When is a government program socialism?
Help me out here. You warn us everyday about Socialism and how dangerous it is, but you never get specific about what it is you're afraid of.
I think you're validating the point of his piece.
I asked you this before, but you never like the answer you have to give.
Is the Federal Aviation Agency a Socialism program?
How about our roads, police, fire and ambulance services?
Or our election system?
Why arent you arguing for private police forces, and doing away with welfare entirely? Close hospitals to people who cant pay. Let the sick fend for themselves. Survival of the fittest. Every man for himself. No social contract.
You want it both ways.
Any Valid Social Contract Requires Universal Health Care
That's Not Socialism, It's Judaism
http://nickdupree.blogspot.com/2007/02/any-valid-social-contract-requires.html
My last blog post, Vigorously Insisting On A More Perfect Union: Fighting Cuts, Demanding Universal Health Care garnered a good response over at MySpace and here at blogspot where I always simulcast the blog.
The first response I got was this:
Universal health care is socialism. As of now, this isn't a socialist state. You want free health care, move to a socialist society. Leave our free enterprise alone. I don't want the same government who gave us the response to Hurricane Katrina determining whether or not I can get medicine. If you were wise, you wouldn't want it either.
I'm intimately familiar with this kind of right-wing lunacy. I remember when notorious (and now-indicted) Republican leader Tom DeLay stood on the House steps and told the media that "forced taxation" and "redistribution of wealth" through social programs for the poor was "socialism" that must be defeated. This isn't just some marginal view, it is the core philosophy of the Republican party and it animated their campaign for tax cuts. It also spent the past three decades slashing, undermining and removing social programs. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, FEMA, the Dept. of Education: that's all "socialism" to them, suspicious, the enemy, to be stopped. And when we elect people for years who are openly against government, who think government is part of the problem and not part of the solution, we shouldn't be surprised they've presided over dilapidated, underfunded agencies who cannot respond to our needs. This undercutting of government in turn forms a self-feeding cycle of the people hating government more and more and electing more anti-government politicians. Being in Alabama, I am intimately familiar with this idiocy.
This is so wrong, and I have to write a blog in response. We can debate the broad issue of socialism another time; but I must insist that universal health care is NOT socialism any more than public roads and schools are socialist; it is simply a necessary baseline of any civilized society. The whole point of forming a society, a government, in the first place is to accomplish what we cannot do as individuals. Since we (hopefully) moved beyond the "survival of the fittest" jungle, we formed a collective, a social contract, that if we elect some among us to govern, if we agree to send money (and sometimes soldiers) to support this collective, we, in exchange, expect the government of, by, and for the people (that isn't some foreign imposition but IS us. an expression of our desires) to provide for each other's basic needs, basic justice, basic morality. We expect safety and security. We expect safe and well-paved roads. We expect basic education. We expect not to die of disease just because we can't fork over enough protection money to the latest health care robber baron. In short, we expect the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
It is exactly the social contract Martin Luther King described in his famous I Have A Dream Speech:
"In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked 'insufficient funds.'"
What I am telling you is that America has also given their disabled people a bad check, a check that has bounced literally due to "insufficient funds." They are shoving us into back room wards or simply onto sidewalks unattended due to insufficient funds. They are leaving people without help with basic hygiene for days because "sorry, budget cuts this year." Tax cuts for ExxonMobil were more important.
The private sector is not interested in giving people free health care, and charities don't even attempt the billions that it would require. Like roads and schools, this is something individuals can't do and look to government to provide. Those who would label universal health care socialism would likely also label universal education socialism, and almost all government socialist. They believe government should not tax you to distribute money elsewhere, the very point of having a government. So they have left our infrastructure in tatters, our bridges unsafe, our children uneducated, our disabled left in their own feces. This ideology declares war on the social contract; it seeks to melt the very glue that binds society together, and has been frighteningly successful.
To those who do not believe in government helping people, and have left our citizens to the jungle, I say your ways have proven destructive, please step aside and let those who believe in government begin to repair the damage.
Giving people the care they need is not socialism, it's Judaism. It's Christianity. It's Buddhism. It's Islam. It's mandated by nearly every religious tradition and moral code, going back to the Code of Hammurabi: "to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land… so that the strong should not harm the weak." There is separation of church and state, but there should never be separation of decency and state, especially in a democracy, where the sovereign IS the people, and the government an expression of their will.
It was Moses who said "If there be among you a needy man, one of thy brethren, within any of thy gates, in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thy heart, nor shut thy hand from thy needy brother; but thou shalt surely open thy hand unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need in that which he wants" (Deut. 15:7-8) it wasn't Karl Marx who said that.
Moses with the Tablets, by Rembrandt
And government should never be a foreign body walled off from the pain of its employers, the people. The government should provide for the basic decency that morality demands, or we better change governments!
I yearn for the day that everyone sees as I do that we must abandon this immoral system that lets sick people die if they aren't rich, this system that is essentially as violent as "give us more money or die."
And I will not back down. I'll keep calling out and speaking truth to the powerful belligerents against the social contract and toppling every tyrant and latter-day Pharaoh.
I'm from the tradition of Moses, who wasn't afraid to say "let my people go, motherf**ker!"
Nick
This one caught my eye.
"In the Soviet army it takes more courage to retreat than advance."
This was huge in the battle for Stalingrad. The Russian Army was far more merciless towards their own soldiers than the Germans.
For OTC:
I thought you would appreciate this, since you support the American Gulag System, kidnapping, torture, unfettered executive power, and the removal of the Bill of Rights
The US psychological torture system is finally on trial
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2019580,00.html
America has deliberately driven hundreds, perhaps thousands, of prisoners insane. Now it is being held to account in a Miami court
Naomi Klein
Friday February 23, 2007
The Guardian
Something remarkable is going on in a Miami courtroom. The cruel methods US interrogators have used since September 11 to "break" prisoners are finally being put on trial. This was not supposed to happen. The Bush administration's plan was to put José Padilla on trial for allegedly being part of a network linked to international terrorists. But Padilla's lawyers are arguing that he is not fit to stand trial because he has been driven insane by the government.
Arrested in May 2002 at Chicago's O'Hare airport, Padilla, a Brooklyn-born former gang member, was classified as an "enemy combatant" and taken to a navy prison in Charleston, South Carolina. He was kept in a cell 9ft by 7ft, with no natural light, no clock and no calendar. Whenever Padilla left the cell, he was shackled and suited in heavy goggles and headphones. Padilla was kept under these conditions for 1,307 days. He was forbidden contact with anyone but his interrogators, who punctured the extreme sensory deprivation with sensory overload, blasting him with harsh lights and pounding sounds. Padilla also says he was injected with a "truth serum", a substance his lawyers believe was LSD or PCP.
According to his lawyers and two mental health specialists who examined him, Padilla has been so shattered that he lacks the ability to assist in his own defence. He is convinced that his lawyers are "part of a continuing interrogation program" and sees his captors as protectors. In order to prove that "the extended torture visited upon Mr Padilla has left him damaged", his lawyers want to tell the court what happened during those years in the navy brig. The prosecution strenuously objects, maintaining that "Padilla is competent" and that his treatment is irrelevant.
The US district judge Marcia Cooke disagrees. "It's not like Mr Padilla was living in a box. He was at a place. Things happened to him at that place." The judge has ordered several prison employees to testify on Padilla's mental state at the hearings, which began yesterday. They will be asked how a man who is alleged to have engaged in elaborate anti-government plots now acts, in the words of brig staff, "like a piece of furniture".
It's difficult to overstate the significance of these hearings. The techniques used to break Padilla have been standard operating procedure at Guantánamo Bay since the first prisoners arrived five years ago. They wore blackout goggles and sound-blocking headphones and were placed in extended isolation, interrupted by strobe lights and heavy metal music. These same practices have been documented in dozens of cases of "extraordinary rendition" carried out by the CIA, as well as in prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Many have suffered the same symptoms as Padilla. According to James Yee, a former army Muslim chaplain at Guantánamo, there is an entire section of the prison called Delta Block for detainees who have been reduced to a delusional state. "They would respond to me in a childlike voice, talking complete nonsense. Many of them would loudly sing childish songs, repeating the song over and over." All the inmates of Delta Block were on 24-hour suicide watch.
Human Rights Watch has exposed a US-run detention facility near Kabul known as the "prison of darkness" - tiny pitch-black cells, strange blaring sounds. "Plenty lost their minds," one former inmate recalled. "I could hear people knocking their heads against the walls and the doors."
These standard mind-breaking techniques have never faced scrutiny in an American court because the prisoners in the jails are foreigners and have been stripped of the right of habeas corpus - a denial that, scandalously, was just upheld by a federal appeals court in Washington DC. There is only one reason Padilla's case is different - he is a US citizen. The administration did not originally intend to bring Padilla to trial, but when his status as an enemy combatant faced a supreme court challenge, the administration abruptly changed course, charging Padilla and transferring him to civilian custody. That makes Padilla's case unique - he is the only victim of the post-9/11 legal netherworld to face an ordinary US trial.
Now that Padilla's mental state is the central issue in the case, the government prosecutors are presented with a problem. The CIA and the military have known since the early 1960s that extreme sensory deprivation and sensory overload cause personality disintegration - that's the whole point. "The deprivation of stimuli induces regression by depriving the subject's mind of contact with an outer world and thus forcing it in upon itself. At the same time, the calculated provision of stimuli during interrogation tends to make the regressed subject view the interrogator as a father-figure." That comes from Kubark Counterintelligence Interrogation, a declassified 1963 CIA manual for interrogating "resistant sources".
The manual was based on the findings of the agency's notorious MK-ULTRA programme, which in the 1950s funnelled about $25m to scientists to carry out research into "unusual techniques of interrogation". One of the psychiatrists who received CIA funding was the infamous Ewen Cameron, of Montreal's McGill University. Cameron subjected hundreds of psychiatric patients to large doses of electroshock and total sensory isolation, and drugged them with LSD and PCP. In 1960 Cameron gave a lecture at the Brooks air force base in Texas, in which he stated that sensory deprivation "produces the primary symptoms of schizophrenia".
There is no need to go so far back to prove that the US military knew full well that it was driving Padilla mad. The army's field manual, reissued just last year, states: "Sensory deprivation may result in extreme anxiety, hallucinations, bizarre thoughts, depression, and antisocial behaviour" - as well as "significant psychological distress".
If these techniques drove Padilla insane, that means the US government has been deliberately driving hundreds, possibly thousands, of prisoners insane around the world. What is on trial in Florida is not one man's mental state. It is the whole system of US psychological torture.
· Naomi Klein's book on disaster capitalism will be published this spring; a version of this article appears in the Nation www.nologo.org
Ahh, I love a little Stalin in the morning.
Goes great with a hot cup of 'Joe', get it?
Cheney: Up is down, war is peace.
These idiots have spun themselves in circles havent they?
I love this line, as if we're all too stupid to think for ourselves:
"I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we will do is validate the al-Qaida strategy"
AT LEAST AL-QAIDA HAS A STRATEGY BIG DICK!!
So I assume the 'terra-ists' will now follow the British troops home, since the British no longer wish to fight them 'over there'.
I loathe Country and Western.
I'm not exactly a shred head either though. I dont do hair bands and tight leather pants very much.
This is a vid of Scott McGill, who I went to high school with. This will surely drive Len to insanity.
yngwie shreds!
Was that Bruce Dickenson from Iron Maiden singing?
I grew up listening to this stuff. I was really into Michael Schenker and UFO.
Rock on!!
Only in America...
This is video is pretty funny... until it isnt.
OTC: What changed?
Why this new sense of outrage on the Right concerning the 'commies'?
Where was all of this concern over the past 6 years? Or was it there, and I didnt notice it?
Is this because of the last election, and the fact that the Democrats are now in charge of Congress?
Anyway, thanks for the inspiration. I went and donated to the ACLU this morning.
Off to protest and hate Amurika.
We're over the hump.
Losing builds character. And if character had anything to do with stock picking, we would most certainly be seeing better days ahead.
Can we trade Nuts?
Got some QUA.to (QADMF.pk) today.
Stock is already up .17 US today to 6.73. It appears they are through with the copper hedge that killed their profits last year.
This one should do really well this year.
I was hoping we wouldnt go here...
Talking about books always forces me to face reality, my reality.
See, I have a problem. Actually, an addiction.
If I get anywhere near a book store, it is a guaranteed transaction of at least $100. I simply cant help myself.
My wife has sought help for me, even going so far as telling the manager at the local Borders that I may be a security threat (kidding).
After reading Death's post last night I went to Amazon and spent close to $200. Wait till the wife see's that one.
Len, I had to take a 3 day class back in December that required me to travel. While getting ready to leave the house, I realized I didnt have a book to read while away. I went and grabbed the Orson Scott Card book that had been sitting on my bookshelf for about 8 years.
It was the first fiction book I had read in about 6 years, the last being a re-read of The Hobbit. I read Ender's Game in about 2 days, and needed get the sequel for the trip home that week.
I was a great escape for a few days.
Hey Death, (I'll never get comfortable writing that)
Thanks for the tip. I just ordered it.
I got Richard Clarkes book, Breakpoint last weekend at Cosco. It was on sale for $14.00. I havent started it yet though.
I'm still reading Orson Scott Card's book, Xenocide, the third book in the Ender's Game series. It's getting kinda slow, so I might drop it.
Hey Eagle,
I tend to come to relieve stress, and get things that are bothering me off my back.
Sometimes the exact opposite happens.
And sometimes I find myself laughing out loud so hard that my cheeks hurt.
We bash each other around quite a bit, but I would do just about anything for the friends I have on this board.
Nice to see you here, and I hope you continue to post.
OT: Did Yahoo drop Canadian symbols?
Is this a new "feature"? Cant see any pinksheets either.
No .v, .to, or .pk symbols show up.
Anybody have any good alternatives? I cant even get Ameritrade to give me quotes on those issues.
The problem is...
and we have discussed it here many times, MONEY.
If you dont have the big corporate power brokers behind you, you cant get elected.
Look at Hillary. There are many pundits out there already giving her the nod due to her fund raising abilities.
FUND RAISING ABILITIES.
That is the only qualification you need anymore to be President.
I know, I'm a socialist, pinko. But until we allow the average Joe, or Frank, to match up to these posers, we will continue to be led by people who look the best in commercials.
Give me a Billion dollars, and let me debate Hillary or John McCain. Watch the world melt right before your eyes.
OK... Who are you?
And what have you done with our friend bbotcs?
How about shipping containers?
Why carry a heavy load across the border? You can just have it shipped right into a dock, and trucked to your warehouse in downtown LA.
Then, if you so chose, you can pack it in air freight and detonate the thing a mile above Burbank.
They say it would cost too much to check all the cargo that comes into our ports.
In 1995 they said it would cost too much to put locking doors on all the cockpits on planes. Good thing we saved the airlines all that money huh?
re: TGB
Hey worthy. I had been holding and waiting for a while as well. I sold all my shares this morning.
I think there are better bargains out there, and frankly I'm tired of the excuses.
Wow Len, are you trying to force me to relive my childhood?
"First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant. "
Both my parents smoked. My mom had trouble with my little brother's pregnancy in 1970... the doctor told her to drink gin and tonics and relax.
"We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking."
I put a fork in an electrical outlet. My first lesson in physics!
"We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on."
I started a forest fire when I was 8. We were trying to make sasafrass tea. A plastic butter tub filled with water and some sasafrass roots.
"We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem."
Bike ramps. We built bike ramps, and then jumped over our friends who would lay down on the other side of the ramp.
"AND TO ADD ANOTHER ITEM, EACH AND EVERY DAY IN SCHOOL, WE SAID THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND THE LORD'S PRAYER, AND SANG CHRISTMAS SONGS DURING CHRISTMAS TIME! IMAGINE THAT!"
I went to Catholic School. We had to stand and address any adult who worked in the room. I also called all my friends parents "Mr. or Mrs.". Nobody child I know today refers to adults this way.
"We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents."
Its funny that you mentioned this. My wife asked me about a scar on my chin last night. I got that scar falling out a tree when I was little.
"The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of."
I spent 2 nights in the clink when I was 18. Never broke another law again, except for speeding.
Ahh the memories of childhood.
Hey Rogue,
I was reading something else about Eisenhower the other day, and your post struck a note.
Here is some real irony. In 1953 Eisenhower approved and funded coup de tat of the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in the effort to stop "Communism". We installed the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and murdered the Prime Minister after a mock trial.
The Shah of course created the SAVAK, the Iranian secret police. This infamous agency operated its own secret prison, used torture extensively, assassinated dissidents, and kept the CIA informed.
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
"His policies led to strong economic growth during the 1960s and 1970s but at the same time, opposition to his autocratic pro-Western rule increased. His good relations with Israel and the United States and his active support for women's rights were moreover a reason for Islamic fundamentalist groups to attack his policies."
The Shah was subsequently removed in 1979, and the Ayatollah Khomeini was allowed to return from exile.
So, in our quest to fight Communism, we overthrow a democratically elected leader and install a murderous dictator... and WHALLA, Islamic Fundementalism comes to power.
Oh the irony.
Sorry, I'm mistaken.
I keep refering to this administration as the Bush administration.
My error. This is the Cheney administration. I will not make the error again. My apologies.
Hey Swan - No Joke.
Think about it. The claim has always been that "Liberals" support big government, and the expansion of the power of the Federal government.
The largest expansion of the Federal government in our nations history has taken place under George W. Bush.
So, by that definition, George Bush is a flaming fiscal Liberal.
In fact, other than social issues, I'm having a hard time finding anything about Bush that is Conservative.
Hey Eaglesurvivor,
Welcome.
I can think of "elected" Conservative leaders who act more like Socialist dictators than they care to recognize.
I'll say it again, in many respects, the current administration is the most "Liberal" administration in our history.
Hey Len,
Reminds me of that guys who protests at the funerals of fallen Marines, Fred Phelps.
How would you like to be burying your son or daughter only to have some idiot standing a few grave stones away celebrating your family members death?
Totally disgusting, but allowed in a free society.
Me, I'd find a way to declare the cemetary private property, and have guy removed. But he still has a right to express his opinion, however sick and twisted it is.
Just for the record, OTC.
If someone came on this board and directed a first post like that one at YOU, I would have reacted the same way, and I would state that the person is out of line.
More Socialism?
I dont care if they raise my taxes by 50% tomorrow. No Vet should have to wait in line to get treatment, especially none that have served in Iraq.
Veterans face consecutive budget cuts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_budget_veterans;_ylt=AvvDmiAxkaJieaxLBOZ0xWa...
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration plans to cut funding for veterans' health care two years from now — even as badly wounded troops returning from Iraq could overwhelm the system.
Bush is using the cuts, critics say, to help fulfill his pledge to balance the budget by 2012.
After an increase sought for next year, the Bush budget would turn current trends on their head. Even though the cost of providing medical care to veterans has been growing rapidly — by more than 10 percent in many years — White House budget documents assume consecutive cutbacks in 2009 and 2010 and a freeze thereafter.
The proposed cuts are unrealistic in light of recent VA budget trends — its medical care budget has risen every year for two decades and 83 percent in the six years since Bush took office — sowing suspicion that the White House is simply making them up to make its long-term deficit figures look better.
"Either the administration is willingly proposing massive cuts in VA health care," said Rep. Chet Edwards (news, bio, voting record) of Texas, chairman of the panel overseeing the VA's budget. "Or its promise of a balanced budget by 2012 is based on completely unrealistic assumptions."
Edwards said that a more realistic estimate of veterans costs is $16 billion higher than the Bush estimate for 2012.
In fact, even the White House doesn't seem serious about the numbers. It says the long-term budget numbers don't represent actual administration policies. Similar cuts assumed in earlier budgets have been reversed.
The veterans cuts, said White House budget office spokesman Sean Kevelighan, "don't reflect any policy decisions. We'll revisit them when we do the (future) budgets."
The number of veterans coming into the VA health care system has been rising by about 5 percent a year as the number of people returning from Iraq with illnesses or injuries keep rising. Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans represent almost 5 percent of the VA's patient caseload, and many are returning from battle with grievous injuries requiring costly care, such as traumatic brain injuries.
All told, the VA expects to treat about 5.8 million patients next year, including 263,000 veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan.
The White House budget office, however, assumes that the veterans' medical services budget — up 83 percent since Bush took office and winning a big increase in Bush's proposed 2008 budget — can absorb a 2 percent cut the following year and remain essentially frozen for three years in a row after that.
"It's implausible," Sen. Patty Murray (news, bio, voting record), D-Wash., said of the budget projections.
The White House made virtually identical assumptions last year — a big increase in the first year of the budget and cuts for every year thereafter to veterans medical care. Now, the White House estimate for 2008 is more than $4 billion higher than Bush figured last year.
And the VA has been known to get short-term estimates wrong as well. Two years ago, Congress had to pass an emergency $1.5 billion infusion for veterans health programs for 2005 and added $2.7 billion to Bush's request for 2006. The VA underestimated the number of veterans, including those from Iraq and Afghanistan, who were seeking care, as well as the cost of treatment and long-term care.
The budget for hospital and medical care for veterans is funded for the current year at $35.6 billion, and would rise to $39.6 billion in 2008 under Bush's budget. That's about 9 percent. But the budget faces a cut to $38.8 billion in 2009 and would hover around that level through 2012.
The cuts come even as the number of veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is expected to increase 26 percent next year.
In Bush's proposal to balance the budget by 2012, he's assuming that spending on domestic agency operating budgets will increase by about 1 percent each year.
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"communism alive and well"
Do you think those people would be allowed out there to protest if this was a Communist country?
What is it about the First Ammendment that bothers you so much?
Do you think the police should arrest people for publically sharing their beliefs?
bbotcs:
Hey now. We have to stop agreeing like this. I too like Chuck Hagel. I like the fact that he served in Vietnam, so he understands what it means to send troops into harms way.
While I disagree with him on some issues, I trust him.
I would vote for Hagel over Hillary, even though I have vowed on many occasions not to vote GOP again.
Len, I'll refer you back to this post I copied from the other board.
"but if you aren't a Neo-Con Jackbooter, you are an enemy of the State"
"Even the average fiscal Republican is their enemy. Can't do whatever you want to take over the world if someone is telling you to cool it financially."
Hit the nail on the head for me.
They only chose to debate in arguments where they feel safe and well informed. As soon as any valid alternative point is made, they disappear and ignore the issue.
They wont answer any questions that force them to take a logical position on anything.
Razor is the perfect example of this. He states over and over that the "Liberals" are destroying the country, but when he is confronted with the fact that his hero GWB, may just be the most "Liberal" president we have ever had in this country, he is no where to be found.
"I’m convinced. How about you?"
Hey Alex. No I'm not convinced. If anything, I'm convinced of the exact opposite.
How sad is it that Iran now has more credibility in the world than the US?
And the 3 guys presenting the case demand anonimity? WTF is that about? Tell's me they arent willing to put their names behind the presentation, which means they probably dont find it credible.
We cant take another 2 years of these guys.
Len, the first assertion is usually the correct one.
I think OTC was dipping into the sauce and mistook your response to the "Interview With God" video, as a response to the "Zombie" thing.
But re-reading his post, I'm not even sure that is correct.
"You have your head in the sand and your knowledge of history and current events is lacking."
"Take a look. This was predicted and lampooned."
What was predicted and lampooned?
"Wow i really liked that. That is really important. That is certainly the most important pictures I can find. I wouldnt want to stumble accross the friggen truth. You really add tremendous insight and an alternative view to the board."
This is where I get lost, and I have no idea what he is talking about.
I think the neo-Conservatives are very frazzled these days. They have lost a lot of credibility, and it can get depressing when your all alone.