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You're right, that is funny.
Call the guy the previous poster talked to, since you have his info, and ask him for an e-mail address you can send the photo to.
Based on your logic, nobody should believe your post either. Now that is resolved.
Since you have a name and number, send the guy this picture and ask him if he recognizes his own store.
insert-text-here
That's the new Eco 'Buy USA Products' push.
That's interesting because as recent as a couple weeks ago, Interstate still had at least a whole page devoted to Eco. Now all traces are gone, including hot links elsewhere in the website.
As I said a couple months ago, Eco was bypassing two their licensees when they were shipping product from Salem, OR to TX (remember the 7 trucks PR?), and opening a facility in NJ was a slap in the face to Interstate Lumber. The karma seems to be coming around.
Here's a photo from the Commack, NY H-D you might enjoy:
Not what I'd call front and center display for the product that is revolutionizing Home Depot's lumber biz. The sales guy said he hadn't sold any himself, and the product was essentially minimized in that store.
Two things of note:
1. It's plywood. Eco doesn't have a fire listing for plywood
2. Signage still references TPI. That's just a plan old false statement.
3. Did they ever get unsuspended in Hawaii?
Enjoy.
What? This all USA Eco program buys its lumber from Canada? Shocking. I guess Canadian vets need jobs, too.
Always funny stuff being revealed about Eco's PR's.
The vast majority of companies that hire vets do it because it's a smart thing to do, and you hear nothing from the company about it. Eco hires vets for PR purposes (see ecob.net), and then doesn't pay their employer portion of their payroll taxes. Is Eco taking the employee contribution payroll tax money out of their paychecks and keeping that, too, or just not paying the employer portion?
"As the Founder of this great American company, I can tell you that the Team here at Eco all shares a common bond; that those that came to this America had the simple idea that memories from the past cannot take over our dreams of the future and beyond," stated Steve Conboy, President/CEO, Eco Building Products, Inc. "As we do our part to help Washington create export business that can support job growth here in the U.S., we are excited about this new business with great companies like Jacuzzi."
Suggestion to Eco PR machine:
Before Steve wraps himself in the flag, yet again, he could do something even more patriotic by paying Eco's payroll and sales taxes.
Again, 1 sqft does not equal 1 board foot. You can't just decide it does and go from there. There are a number of online calculators to help you, but first you will need another dimension. Square feet are two dimensional and therefore have no volume. A gazillion square feet alone have zero volume. A board foot has volume and therefore very tangible.
Since the paint is being sprayed on everything under the Sun, the 3D aspect is critical in your calculations. 2" x 12" x 12' lumber vs. 1/2" x 4' x 8' plywood, etc, etc.
No comment on the rest. No need to.
You may have answered your own question from one angle. As explained by the experts here, the Depot deal is exclusive to US and Territories. Conboy's remaining markets are outside the US and Territories.
If it's a typical Steve-O deal, there's no profit in it. Free hot tub for Eco HQ?
Per your post: Expressing a surface coating in 'board feet' doesn't make any sense. It should be expressed in square feet, just like paint coverage. Board feet is a 3D measurement.
"The debt and financing are running this company...not the CEO...and there in lies the problem"
You are indeed a generous person with that comment. Most people recognize a company CEO as the leader and therefore to blame or praise for the welfare of a company. You're giving Conboy a 'pass' on the current situation, and calving off the financials as a standalone entity that pulls the levers?
I would counter that Conboy continues to run the company as he chooses to. The debt and financing are the merely the results of his management style, and by all appearances and PR's he is quite proud of these results. Most people would probably run it differently, and just about anybody could deliver better results.
10 Stores = X Loss
100 Stores = 10X Loss*
*Optimistic. Revenue from 2nd Depot Pilot goes to another party, not Eco. Eco gets no revenue to fund operations during this trial.
Such a deal. We should all be that clever.
Look at ECOB stock price after the original Depot pilot program as well, followed-up with that last 10-Q. That's a great partnership by all measure in ECOB-Land. But I'm told I don't understand how this works, so maybe it is all good news.
Monkeys get blamed for everything, even when it's a chimp.
There's still the red stuff coming out of Canada into the western US. That is confirmed.
Don't know, but I would expect modest claims from GP. It would be very carefully worded. But I'm not convinced somebody isn't jerking my chain. I'm stuck with more flight delays today, so what the heck. May as well reach out and touch somebody.
Besides the lumber and EWP mills, and drywall, GP still has a building product distribution network and sells products from all sorts of vendors. The distribution side has been bleeding for a long time and is sometimes the last stop before the dustbin. Case in point, FlameDXX.
If GP is into this, there are multiple methodologies they could have utilized to skin this cat. Needless to say, they can get really good pricing on raw wood and have facilities they already pay rent on, etc. Would be like putting Eco in a room with a monkey with a hammer. Bam!
Thanks for tip. Should have somebody in the store sometime Thursday for a second opinion. There is a store there, right?
If I recall correctly, you've been an avid supporter, so 'news' like this from you is quite surprising. If substantiated, the game is officially over. Unenforceable patent applications are just that.
Which Depot location?
Even I'm skeptical, but I could see one of the shunned Eco licensees selling to GP Distribution (the guy in CT?). GP does sell to H-D. GP Distribution will try ANYTHING...at least twice. Maybe it's just GP mill stamps on the wood?
I certainly can't describe the financial mechanics of this route, but they effectively got their wages garnished to put it in simpler terms. Just what Depot wants to hear, I am sure. Shouldn't be much doubt that Depot has their line in the water looking for a new fish, if they are going to continue with selling sprayed wood. Eco is certainly giving them adequate reason and time to plan ahead.
I've managed products that were composed of a lot of parts requiring a lot of vendors. For all critical parts, I had more than one vendor on a short leash. For uncritical, by nature, I knew the parts could be had from a number of sources, cheap and in large quantities. Maybe somebody can tell me which category Eco fits in. Critical part or uncritical part? Either way, there's a back up, unless there is a back-out plan instead.
Rest assured, the next PR line will be that it's perfectly normal for a Depot vendor to have their Depot revenue directed to a 3rd party instead of the vendor. Happens all the time, especially with vendors that are the game changers. Right.
In reality, there's a bean counter at Depot that is wondering, "WTF is going on here?". We have a vendor that doesn't pay his bills, so we have to be in the loop to keep him honest?
BTW folks, now where is the money going to come from for the sales and payroll tax payments, suppliers, payroll itself, rent, utilities, etc? May need to reopen the coffee shop. I heard it was closed, but what do I know about the coffee industry....
But, please, don't let any of this funny business allow you to think for one minute that there's anything funny going on with the product credentials as well. THAT is where Conboy draws the line! No hanky panky there...Wink.
So, you are claiming now that Red Shield is noncombustible? Can't wait to read the PR on that.
How big? Over 300 pounds?
Old Picture, is what you are saying, or a lot of old inventory still in stock?
How come all the wood in the back of the picture is blue?
You'll have a hard time finding a similar situation as Eco. If you look at the market for 'wood treaters' there's Hixson, Cox, Hoover, NE Treaters, PWP, Thunderbolt, Allweather,and maybe 15 others, all are privately held and carry no/low debt. They have assets to borrow of off and historically positive business cases, and therefore can get very attractive borrowing rates at-will. Essentially all operate on a self-imposed mandate to be in the black every year, whatever it takes. If spraying wood with borate every becomes widely accepted, these are the behemoths that Eco will face, overnight. No patent needed. Most already have attractive contracts with borate supplies.
There is one publicly traded company that applies a coating to wood that you could sorta use for a measure (a non-combustible layer). IBTGF. They have actually had a patent for their process for over 20 years, and are still struggling. The stock price history will look familiar. They hooked up with LP a couple years ago which has done wonders for volume, but if you look at their balance sheet, they still have hefty debt that they still can't shake off. 2/3's of their business is tied-up with one customer (LP), and that is always a killer. They are getting squeezed, and always will be. Their latest 10-Q says as much. Sound familiar? At least they admit it. Lucky for them though, on the LP side of their business, they don't have to buy the panels. They just coat them for LP. They can probably go on indefinitely Q to Q, but aren't going to be a blow-out. And now that they have done the work with ICC-ES and LP has helped develop the market, it's probably a matter of time before some of the guys in the first paragraph come on-line and rain on their modest parade. Once the volume is there, everybody gets onboard.
There are some other companies out there spraying borate on trim and such, under the blanket of the exact same ICC-ES AC that Eco does. I don't think any of the other borate sprayers are making claims for structural products, but you may be able to find evidence to the contrary by looking further.
Tag, AF31(Eco Fire Break) is another easy one to clone and impossible to protect as any 'intellectual property.'
From the MSDS on ECOB website:
"SECTION 2: COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
INGREDIENT: Water solution of proprietary ingredients, surfactant and Potassium Citrate. Dilute concentration generally
less than 50% depending on application.
CAS NO. 6100-05-6 Potassium Citrate"
The only mojo to Fire Break is the potassium citrate, which is a common (and cheap) ingredient in fire extinguishers. The rest is a smoke screen, except for the surfactant which would also be common and a generic reference.
You may want to see if Eco has even bothered to TM 'Fire Break" since they haven't appeared to TM much of anything else, despite their claims to the contrary.
Their patent application is very 'clear' on the various Eco Red Shield ingredients and is such a wandering document on what may and may not be in there at any given time, it's not going anywhere. That was probably some of the feedback that Eco got from the patent office. In fact, the patent application references a lot of previous patents for the substantiation of using the ingredients they are using. "Me, too" isn't a good patent strategy. At best, Mark may get some sort of patent for 'exactly' how their specific paint machine works, but there are so many other paint machines out there available off the shelf, it's hard to believe anybody would want to burn through the cash to R&D and patent one that still does nothing more than spray paint. Not a good investment for a start-up. Why start off by re-inventing the wheel?
Here's how this can play-out for Eco, if we assume Depot is in love with borate painted wood.
Facts: Eco has shunned their licensees in this Depot deal and in other deals as well. Remember the 7 TL's being sprayed at Salem, OR Eco plant headed to TX, going right by licensee locations in Denver and Austin? This from an Eco PR, so it's no doubt 100% true, right? Additionally, Depot material going from Colton, CA to Sandy area, cuts out the WI and MA licensees. NJ Eco location cuts out MA licensee. Why be a licensee?
Eco has probably done a good job of brewing a lot of angst within their dealer network by now. What's the one thing Eco has that most/all of their Licensees don't have? Tons of toxic debt. What's one thing these licensees have that Eco doesn't have? Good credit with wood mills, and the skills to buy right.
That puts Eco's licensee network, sans Eco, in a great position to make their own red sauce, or blue, and go for it independently. That's the answer to your question about who is in line.
I know businesses small and large that played in this pool. It's not my fault Eco chose other options. Maybe Eco is getting bad advice?
Funny. You are replying to a deleted post.
The Fed had money out there at nearly 0%. Don't blame me if Conboy walked away from it.
Beerd is absolutely correct. Big Box's and Depot specifically have penalties in place for vendors that don't perform exactly to specs. It can even be as minimal as missing a delivery by a couple hours. You thread the needle every day with Depot. You can say it ain't so, but fact is, it is the truth. Depot has a line of other vendors waiting to fill each existing vendor's shoes, and don't think Eco can't be replaced in a heartbeat. If you aren't aware of this, then you have no idea what it's like being a big box vendor.
You lost me right out of the gate with #1. When the economy went bust, the market was full of easy credit and record low interest rates. Many companies took advantage of that and did significant upgrades during the downturn and are now enjoying the rewards of that commitment. Many did that in conjunction with downsizing accordingly to fit the size of the market, which couldn't be easier for a spray painting company. There was no incentive or reason to turn to toxic financing because of the housing downturn. Conboy doesn't get a pass on this at all. He's stuck with toxic financing for other reasons.
One thing for sure during the downturn, it is amazing how poorly he's negotiated warehouse space cost for operations. They must see him coming and raise the rent. The guy that financed the F150 for him must have called everybody.
This will give you an idea of how long that $490K for Depot wood will last...from the last 10-Q:
"Loan Payable – Other
Auto Notes Payable
The Company entered in an auto loan agreement on November 7, 2011 to purchase a Ford 150 pickup truck. The principal amount of the loan is $27,095 and the interest rate 9.99%. The loan will be matured on October 7, 2015. The Company is currently paying $690 auto payment per month. For the period ended December 31, 2013 and June 30, 2013, the balances of the auto loan were $8,278 and $8,278 (current maturities) and $6,217 and $9,103 (long-term potion), respectively."
He can't even cut a decent deal for a truck (9.99%?). How are Steve Conboy and Eco going to survive in the raw wood market? In the scheme of Eco's losses, it's peanuts, but it is a blueprint for the big picture.
"we do know from the report that the deal is good for both company`s so maybe its high volume with healthy margins for both"
I guess you don't understand that Depot isn't sitting around wondering what they can do to make this deal good for Eco. Whether Eco makes money off this deal isn't Depot's problem. Never will be.
How long can Ecob sell sub-penny stock to fund a Depot program? At some point, you have to have a profit strategy, regardless of whether it is small or large. Eco doesn't have one, and Depot only insures Eco burns cash faster than Conboy can issue stock. More stores, more loss. More loss, more stock to sell. The yearly and quarterly reports put out by Eco say that. Don't argue with me, go argue with the guy that signs the reports. I'm just agreeing with him on his numbers.