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Loj, forget about Spain, we lost a license.
Things are worrisome right now. Management has to issue some kind of communiqué.
PDI is our only hope.
That’s a very bad news. Some kind of communication from the company would be appropriate at this point, but everyone is still on vacation.
I was under impression that opposite actually happened- we spent too much money in Spain and diverted our equipment to help FQ, but apparently this is not true.
Management cannot hide from this one- they will have to explain eventually what exactly going on... Sad.
At this point unless gold comes back to $1400 level to make Moleron much more profitable – the only trump cards are PDI and Petaquilla location to convince FQ to some kind of deal.
Tell them , ptygold. those who have ears - will hear, others will continue catching fish.
Bobby, if you talking about Google group- it was suppose to run by Digi, unfortunately he is not able to participate right now due to events I can not mention here.
Regardless, majority of people in that group knows what is going on (thru other media).
Occasionally when someone does chooses to share the news- messenger gets attack instead of the message, which limits rest of us participation.
As you see “fish group” keeps board entertain enough.
Happy New Year everyone.
Nice chess move "check"
"...Minera Panama used the road under an agreement Petaquilla Gold goodwill that existed between the two parties."
Goodwill might cost $$$ in a future.
LONDON (MINEWEB) -
Hedging has come soaring back into the headlines in recent weeks as a result of a number of fairly high profile comments. And, while the global gold hedge book is still massively lower than where it once was, in recent months there has been a growing trend among lenders to ensure that part of the gold output is hedged forward as a prerequisite for raising new finance.
Before the seemingly ever rising gold price of the first decade of the 21st Century put hedging out of favour, and the big miners scrambled to dehedge, this was, in fact, pretty normal practice. Gold mining was looked upon as a particularly risky business after the big collapse down from $800 in 1980 to under $300 over the subsequent 20 years and the banks were thus keen to protect their investment which they could do by an insistence on hedging output at a specific price as an income guarantee. But now, some are suggesting there is a hidden agenda behind a new insistence on hedging by the bullion banks.
It certainly won’t have gone without notice that gold bullion is flowing out of U.S. and European vaults to the east – and to China in particular. Indeed, despite the massive gold liquidations out of the big ETFs – GLD in particular – and more, available metal in COMEX warehouses is at a very low level as most of it is being swallowed up by Eastern, Middle Eastern and FSU demand. Add into this the certainty that many central banks have been leasing out much of their gold, which has then been sold on by the bullion banks, and there is a huge supply squeeze developing for physical gold in the West.
The bullion banks will supposedly have to return the gold they have leased, but are unable to do so because the available bullion supplies are just not there and that which comes on the market is being snapped up by the East. Indeed this desperation to get their hands on physical metal without bankrupting themselves may be at least a partial reason for the gold price being driven downwards with the kind of strange market activity we have seen in the recent past. Their inability to return leased gold to the central banks is also the most likely reason why Germany is finding it so difficult to repatriate its gold stored in U.S. and U.K. central bank gold vaults.
Thus, the reports suggest, the bullion banks are now exerting pressure on the basic gold suppliers - the miners - to supply gold directly to them (through hedging) to try and help replenish their holdings so as to be able to return the gold they have leased. The suggestion is that should a gold miner require say $300 million in finance to build a new mine, or expand an existing one, it is going to be required to hedge a significant portion of its production in order to get the financing. But the miners are resisting this – at a gold price of around $1200, most would be mining gold at a loss. The miners’ main hope is for an increase in the gold price in the future as new operations and expansions come on stream, but if they hedge their output forward at $1200 they would be doing so at, or near, a lossmaking level – not an attractive proposition, and one which could land them in serious financial difficulties should the gold price take off again and, as we have seen in recent years, costs escalate accordingly.
But there is another side to the new mined gold supply situation that could be even more worrying for the bullion banks in terms of reducing new mined gold supply availability in the West. We hear that gold miners are being approached to sell their output direct to Chinese refiners at a premium – surely an attractive proposition for a struggling gold miner. The idea of selling output direct to the Chinese is not new. Coeur’s Kensington gold mine in Alaska currently sells around half of its output of gold concentrates directly to China National Gold Group Corp. under a deal set up about four years ago. However the recent reported moves by the Chinese to secure gold output from the mines directly would almost certainly be welcomed by today’s struggling gold producers, and would probably offer far better potential returns should the gold price recover than bullion bank imposed hedging.
It does look as if we may be heading for something of a serious squeeze on supplies of gold bullion in the West if the massive Chinese, and other Eastern demand continues at anything near current levels. A report highlighted yesterday notes that China’s current President, Xi Jinping, has stated that the Chinese dream is the pursuit of gold with the aspiration to seek ‘peaceful development in the world’. This appears to suggest a desire by the Chinese to work towards some kind of new currency standard within which gold plays a major role and is perhaps behind the huge accumulation of physical gold by the Chinese who see it as key to the future of the global economy and the country’s place in driving it forwards.
He is sharing very important information and all you do is making smart alek comment.
If I was him- I would keep it to myself next time.
Why bother. You keep on listen to fish stories.
Why you giving her “leftist, environs, mining haters” article any attention.
She has been posting this kind of stuff on SH board. NO – we not 100 K oz producer, but we NOT 40 K either! It actually between 60 and 80 K – but at this point we have other issues to worry about as you all know it.
The bottom line is price of gold.
Regardless how some of us think about management, let’s face it commodity cycle is over.
We would not have this conversation if gold was above $1600.
Does that spells death to Petaquilla – absolutely not : "what goes up must go down" and vice versa. Commodities will come back and so is gold.
When it will happen? – Who knows, two or three years from now I suppose. We actually extremely lucky (a lot of juniors will go bankrupt) PTQ will survive because of PDI and its strategically geographical position you should all thanks Richard for, as much as some of you hate to admit.
If PTQ can strike some kind of deal in the beginning of 2014 – it will benefit tremendously to company future going forward with Spain/Portugal.
If not – we still do OK by concentrating on selling aggregate and paying DB , by second part of 2014 gold obligation will go down substantially helping bottom line.
I hope rest of your portfolio doing great, as mine does, (PTQ is the only my exposure to mining sector).
Merry Christmas everyone.
Yes, Nick is correct in that area. I also hear from my friend in Panama about political situation playing in Petaquilla hands .
As Mjk told us in a past- R. Fifer has a lot of connections in a party so FQ has to trade water very carefully. They better get that Engineering Report done ASAP and get development going or risking to lose it all.
You are wrong again. I do not promote this stock, opposite is true – I want you and many people to sell PTQ.
Even thou English is my second language I do know who promoter is, obviously you don’t:
"...The California General Corporation Law uses, but does not define, the term “promoter”. For example, a promoter can be criminally prosecuted. Corporations Code Section 2251 provides that any promoter “who knowingly and willfully issues or consents to the issuance of certificates for certificated securities, or initial transaction statements or written statements for uncertificated securities, in violation of this division with intent to defraud present or future shareholders, subscribers, purchasers of shares or creditors is guilty of a misdemeanor . . .. It can also be a crime to lead someone to believe that a person is a promoter when in fact no such relationship exists. See Cal. Cal. Corp. Code § 2257. Thus, it seems that it may be useful to know exactly who or what a “promoter” might be..."
No, it was I who told you over and over again on both boards that FQ has financial difficulties which will lead to postponing the Deal.
And NO- PTQ will not go bankrupt, plenty cash coming from aggregate plus gold staying above $1200 will guarantee their survival.
And Yes- FQM will make a deal anyway- it will benefit both parties.
Why pay PTQ 100 mil for aggregate if you can buy whole Panama assets for $200-sh mil.
Petaquilla es Panama!
Petaquilla is a lifestyle!
Petaquilla is best entertainment money can buy.
I would think that people of PP know more about Petaquilla situation then you .
Look, I don’t know what exactly management will decide to do with production, but one thing is for sure - equipment is there.
The question is how will they treat DB part.
I don’t have gold delivery schedule affront of me , but just from memory- they have six or eight month left delivering 1500oz per month to DB, after that amount drops significantly to 900 oz. Maybe management will decide to produce just enough to satisfy DB loan and keep their head above the water concentrating on aggregate sells.
Until FQ make their move. .
Yea, right. You go on and sell. I am pretty sure that some kind of deal will be strike, but first FQ has to take care their imminent financial problem.
Once that done PTQ will be next. From production stand point - second quarter has to be so much better since equipment issues are gone.
FQM just asked for more time by postponing their Engineering report to early 2014. That report will tell us a lot about their plan concerning PTQ, who knows maybe by the time report comes out- PTQ “case” will be solved to everyone satisfaction.
Of cause some traders who wanted quick turnaround for their money will leave and SP might go lower, but I personally can wait a few month longer. In mean time we are digging and pouring.
And don’t forget Petaquilla is still Panama company, FQM is not.
Pascal will be very careful trading water around Petaquilla, they are the ones who laid off 50% work force and not Petaquilla who continue to provide work and good living for locals.
There is a reason why FQM financial problems were discussed in Panama media - it is to put gentle pressure on them to start executing their production plan . Election year is coming and I am sure Pascal knows not to full around if he wants to keep his concession.
The worse is behind us. 2014 looks very promising.
Investor, why don’t you read Sedar before comment.
Duke was provisionally appointed before,
now- at AGM BOD was increased from four to five members with shareholders support giving him (Duke) full powers
.
FQ has to fix its problems before sitting down with PTQ:
Andrea Gimenez (andrea.gimenez @ epasa.com) / PANAMA AMERICA
Review Factors
Probability of default rating - Ba3-PD.
First Quantum has a debt of $ 1,500 million 8.75% Notes due 2020 - B1/LGD5.
The company currently has $ 500 million in letters at 7.5% due 2021 - B1/LGD5.
Some 350 million 7.25% Notes due 2019 are part of the company's debt - B2/LGD6 FQM (Akubra) Ltd (formerly Inmet Mining Corporation)
The corporate family rating is - Ba3.
The agency ranking Moody's issued a downward revision of all grades of First Quantum Minerals (FQM), after the company release a press release on November 27, 2013, with respect to a dispute with certain holders of bonds.
According to the credit evaluator, if the dispute remains unresolved for a period of time, this could negatively affect the ability of the company to raise more funds and continue their plan of substantial capital expenditure, particularly with respect to their key projects, as Sentinel and Cobre Panama.
To this is also added the maturity of a loan of $ 2.5 million currently holds FQM Akubra, which is due for completion payment for June next year.
The Akubra FQM FQM is a subsidiary that is merged with Inmet Mining Corporation ("Inmet") earlier this year, following the completion of a tender offer, made by Inmet FQM.
Claim
The owners of these bonds are claiming that the breach of certain terms has occurred under the indentures two bonds FQM (Akubra) Ltd ('FQM Akubra') for a total of nearly two billion dollars.
"The downward revision reflects our concerns regarding the potential negative consequences for FQM a legal dispute involving about 2 million in notes," says Juan Marco Migliavacca, Moody's VP and senior analyst and principal analyst for FQM .
"The conflict creates uncertainty and could end up with an acceleration of the debt, which could have a negative impact on the liquidity of the company, if not addressed by management proactively, but the acceleration is not considered a likely outcome in this stage, "he added.
The press release from Moody's included in their statements that the initiation of the review is conducted by the possibility that any resolution of the legal dispute could adversely affect the FQM.
However, it was stressed that the review focused on the potential risks that the dispute is creating and the extent to which the company is developing any contingency plan to achieve mitigate these risks.
Why don’t you go and fish yourself to ... You have nothing to contribute except every day same copy/paste smart aleck remarks. You are exactly the reason why a lot of posters do not want to participate here.
FQM is 600 lb. gorilla compare with PTQ.
They are not going anywhere but you should know what I mean when it comes to Panama situation.
I slam both if I have to. We are in a new reality.
Looks like FQM got too much on their plate right now.
Too many projects, too many local challenges , luck of financing, bond issue, labor problem in Africa.
Here, locally they are falling behind the schedule with Minera.
A lot of unhappy people in Panama right now.
Promises were made,
local towns spent a lot of money increasing their hotels and other infrastructure capacity and what now?
Empty restaurants, hotels, 50% former Inmet employers laid off combine that with slowing down in Panama-Canal work due to
financing issues and suddenly- cold weather in Eastern US can turned into much cooler relationship between FQM and Panama Government.
Pascal better watch out, Panama political will is very powerful specially during election year.
Those who forget past …
More problem for FQ:
“Zambia Mining Union Wants to Reopen Pay Talks With First Quantum By Matthew Hill Dec 10, 2013 9:05 AM
The Mineworkers Union of Zambia says it wants to restart wage negotiations with a First Quantum Minerals Ltd. (FM) unit after workers rejected a deal it signed.
Employees declined to accept the wage deal negotiated by the union at First Quantum’s Kansanshi copper mine, Joseph Chewe, secretary general of the labor group, said today by mobile phone from Lusaka, the capital. The agreement was signed on Nov. 27, according to Godfrey Msiska, a spokesman for the operation. Government approved the deal, which includes a 10 percent pay increase next year, on Dec. 4, he said in reply to e-mailed questions. Kansanshi is Africa’s largest copper mine.
“There were some mistakes that the union made,” Chewe said. “There was a very sharp reaction on behalf of the members.”
Workers rejected the three-year tenure of the deal, which provides for a further 8 percent rise in 2015 and 9 percent in 2016, Chewe said. Msiska declined to comment when asked if the Kansanshi mine will consider restarting wage talks.
Kansanshi workers went on a pay strike in March last year. Zambia is Africa’s biggest copper producer.”
I don’t know who “you guys ” you are talking about.
I don’t anticipate any news from AGM. The only one who could have said something was FQ.
Their Engineering Report is due any time now, if PTQ is not mention in a new light, then everything stay the same.
Interesting video from FQM:
No, I don’t see you smiling; I feel a hostility oozing from you.
Hey, I did not force you to invest here.
We can go back and forth discussing how $1600 gold would affect profit margin versa $1200. Or how those additional profits would be invested but with $1200 and going lower – there are not any.
As they say – the beauty is in the eyes of beholder.
Today – PTQ is lucky having PDI and that’s a fact. If gold goes to $1800 then it’s another story.
And if to be swallowed by bigger fish doubles my money – I am happy also.
Or I can wait, - I don’t care. If you feel “blue”- here is a good song for you by Donna Summers “I will survive”.
Good luck.
No Badge, you wrong. I was and continue to be realistic.
We would not have this kind of conversation if gold price was at $1600.
BOD did a good job consider circumstances. If not their proactive vision to get Spain’s rich ore property or diversification with PDI or strategically position themselves with land rights you would be facing bankruptcy. But we are looking on possibility of making good deal still or JV. Sometimes my tongue n cheek comments do not translate well on internet since people don’t see me smile or wink. Any way I am here to stay and reap the profits when ever they come, don’t care less about anything else.
Progafa was only 50% correct- they were talking.
And that’s it. We will be digging and selling rock for a while, PTQ became long term investment for new members.
That’s right Badge,
nothing new , same old. Obviously FQM is in a financial trouble and until they solve this Bond issue- no way Petaquilla question can be address.
I guess maybe there were some discussion on some level but nothing come of it.
PTQ is not going to be sold, FQ has their hands tight behind the back.
As all of you can see from Panama article - activity on Minera project subsided, why? They simple don’t have money!
Back to sleep, wake me up two years from now.
Moody's places First Quantum Minerals' ratings on review for downgradeGlobal Credit Research - 03 Dec 2013
London, 03 December 2013 -- Moody's Investors Service has today placed all the ratings of First Quantum Minerals ('FQM'; rated Ba3) on review for downgrade following the disclosure by the company, in a press release dated 27 November 2013, that a dispute has arisen with certain bondholders who are claiming that a breach of terms has occurred under the indentures of two bonds of FQM (Akubra) Ltd ('FQM Akubra') totalling nearly $2 billion. FQM Akubra is a subsidiary of FQM that amalgamated with Inmet Mining Corporation ('Inmet') earlier this year following the completion of a tender offer for Inmet made by FQM.
"The review for downgrade reflects our concerns regarding the potential negative consequences for FQM of a legal dispute involving nearly $2 billion worth of notes," says Gianmarco Migliavacca, a Moody's Vice President -- Senior Analyst and lead analyst for FQM. "The dispute creates uncertainty and could end up with an acceleration of the debt, which could have a negative impact on the company's liquidity position if not proactively addressed by management, although acceleration is not considered a likely outcome at this stage."
A full list of affected ratings is provided towards the end of this press release.
RATINGS RATIONALE
The initiation of the review is ultimately driven by the possibility that any resolution of the legal dispute could negatively affect FQM's liquidity position, should the dispute lead to the company having to redeem the bonds early or make any other compensatory payments. Should the dispute remain unresolved for a period of time, it could also negatively affect the company's ability to raise further funding to pursue its substantial capex plan, particularly with respect to its key projects, including Sentinel and Cobre Panama, while also taking into consideration the June 2014 maturity of FQM Akubra's $2.5 billion Revolving Credit Facility.
The review will focus on the potential risks that this dispute is creating and the extent to which any contingency plans the company is pursuing will mitigate those risks.
AFFECTED RATINGS
First Quantum Minerals Ltd
- Corporate family rating -- Ba3
- Probability of default rating -- Ba3-PD
- $350 million of 7.25% senior notes due 2019 -- B2/LGD6
FQM (Akubra) Ltd (formerly Inmet Mining Corporation)
- $1,500 million of 8.75% senior notes due 2020 -- B1/LGD5
- $500 million of 7.5% senior notes due 2021 -- B1/LGD5
The principal methodology used in these rating was the Global Mining Industry published in May 2009. Other methodologies used include Loss Given Default for Speculative-Grade Non-Financial Companies in the U.S., Canada and EMEA published in June 2009. Please see the Credit Policy page on www.moodys.com for a copy of these methodologies.
First Quantum Minerals Ltd (FQM), headquartered in Canada and listed on the Toronto, London and Lusaka Stock Exchanges, is a medium-sized mining company with a large operation in Zambia, where it manages Kansanshi, a large and low-cost copper and gold deposit. FQM also operates a small copper and gold mine in Mauritania, a junior nickel mine in Australia and a junior nickel-copper mine in Finland. Following the acquisition of Inmet, FQM has gained access to one of the world's largest copper deposits, Cobre Panama, as well as to small copper and zinc mining operations in the EMEA region. The pro-forma combined revenues of FQM and Inmet in 2012 were just above $4.0 billion.
A lot of rumors from different sources confirming that negotiations are going on.. maybe, as it is still non-official just based on assumption and everyone well-wishing and wanting reality which might becoming one. ( Whey, let’s take a breather here).
OK, let’s assume with 99% probability - They are talking.
Than what we (PTQ) have to offer them (FQM).
With price of gold continue to fall below $1200, and production cost increasing to $800 range our average and sometimes below average grade ore is threatening to make Petaquilla less and less profitable.
That would take Moleron plant of negotiating table,
then what’s left is PDI and Land.
How much it worth to FQ?
Let’s not to forget that FQ is in a middle of their cost cutting Engineering Report which they suppose to introduce in a few days.
Will they be able to come up with the Deal positive enough for PTQ shareholders and cheap enough to convince their people? That’s 300 mil. dollar question, soon we’ll know.
As a sphinx we will be reborn in a new body, flying across the Ocean in a golden sunshine.
Pilk, there is no official announcement that negotiations are going on, unlike with Inmet.
All we have is just a rumor , it is a good one, meaning that it leaking from a good source, but still there is nothing official. First sign that something really good is coming would be increased volume and sharp SP move up.
Pilk, we all know from different sources that both sides are talking.
What is none of us sure that it will lead to some kind of deal. But keeping fingers crossed.
Google group knows as much as Nikolas, but unless it is official- it is just a rumor. 4 more days.
Investor, first of all who are “us”?
Secondly, we all know (including “ir guy”) that negotiations about Panama assets are going on.
What we don’t know (including ir guy) that it will resolve in positive outcome for everyone.
But I agree - we will know it very soon, 4 to 7 days.
As gold price continue to be depress either by Gold ETF sell-off , manufacturing data or tapering, regardless of Chinese action- 2014 will be just as challenging for junior mining.
We can see by volume of last week (and personal e-mails) that some of us choose to pick-up pieces ( sell PTQ) and leave.
Those of us who choose to stay are hoping that rumor of negotiations between PTQ and FQ will generate that hopeful result which allow most of us here to make a decent profit which was worth waiting for… If that will not happen I would expect SP to pullback into $.20-sh range making us willingly or unwillingly long term investors, unless…
Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Hanukah.!
Investor, you’ve been very naïve to trust anything to anyone on message board.
Rumors are just what they are - rumors , until fat lady sings.
Are we next?
First Quantum Minerals Ltd. (FM), a copper and nickel miner, said it signed a deal with Zambian labor unions to increase the pay of its workers in the southern African country by 10 percent next year.
The agreement with the National Union of Miners and Allied Workers and the Mineworkers Union of Zambia will also see wages climb a further 8 percent in 2015 and 9 percent in 2016, Godfrey Msiska, a spokesman for First Quantum’s Kansanshi Mining, told reporters today in the Zambian capital, Lusaka.
Zambia’s consumer inflation rate rose 6.9 percent in October from a year earlier, official statistics show.
The deal with Vancouver-based First Quantum comes after the Mineworkers Union of Zambia agreed to a 12 percent wage increase with Jinchuan Group Ltd. on Nov. 12. First Quantum is spending $650 million to build a smelter in Solwezi to process minerals stored up after a capacity shortage in Zambia, Africa’s biggest copper producer.
Looks like some choose to bail-out. We are on another hand choose to stay to the end.
It could be sweet or bitter, depends on RF decision .
IF I were in your shoes I would take a few people in an office for dinner…
In Panama , everyone is leaving for the Holiday. I think it is one Holiday after another , this time of the year.
At least you can jump in a car , stop by local PDI office and check things out. Once you finish work out on a trade-mill. ;o)