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excel, should we then consider doing things that the Bible do not specifically prohibits, only because the Bible does not touch the subject? How come God commands us to keep the Sabath holy, and never, ever mentions to take a vacation of 2, 3 or 4 weeks a year? How come God is so specific on the observation of the feasts yet, He never mentions vacations, birthdays and anniversaries?
Are we to succumb to the customs and activities of the secular world, only because we don't see anything wrong with it? I wouldn't go as far as to attribute to God His complacency toward us when we do things that He did not specifically instructed us to do. That would be just as adding to the Word of God.
If vacation would have been alright by God, wouldn't He have placed it in the Word? If Jesus came to set us standards and examples, would such things as birthday celebrations and vacations be part of His teachings?
Or His teachings were good for the society He lived in while on Earth but do not apply to our society today?
Is it OK to work 5 days a week while God commanded to work 6 days?
You see, we have compromised the Word of God and His Commandments in exchange for certain personal pleasures and entertainment. And worse yet, we justify them.
Where is then our obedience?
excel, unless anyone can prove otherwise, I will strive to follow Jesus' example and teachings. And neither He nor the disciples or any other believer both in the old and new testaments have celebrated a single birthday (well, other than the day the child was born). Likewise, neither Jesus nor the disciples nor any other believer from both the old and new testaments took regular, yearly and paid vacation.
Sassy, I am a believer and talk about believers, since the issue of the celebration of birthday came up talking about Jesus'. Now, if it makes you feel better by me saying I was wrong, OK, here it goes:
I WAS WRONG
Incidentally, you complained about the "aha, I got you" attitude on this board. Yet, you seem to do the same.
excel, so because the Pharaoh (unbeliever) and Herod (an unbeliever) celebrated their birthday, it is an example for us to follow? Perhaps my statement was too broad, but I still have the feeling you knew what I was talking about.
If we are to follow the Bible teachings and take them "literally" then I ask this:
When did Jesus, His disciples or any other person mentioned in the Bible take a vacation? Did any of them ever retire when of old age?
excel, I don't know why you came up with those examples, but I have the feeling you knew that I was talking about God's people, the Jews and the believing gentiles. Both persons you quote are not placed in the Bible as an example to follow.
Please answer this: is Adam's birthday celebrated? or Noah's? Or Moses'? Or David's? Or Solomon's? Or, well, chose any other.
Sassy, I am sorry, but if man was not created to die, there would not have been any need for the plan of salvation conceived by God even before man sinned.
excel, well, his birth was celebrated, yes. But no further birthday was. Neither of any other person's in the Bible.
Sassy, I agree, and I would go even further: there is nowhere in the Bible that anyone's birthday is celebrated, not even Christ's. Every day of our life should be a celebration of Him.
Frank, I agree, yet millions of copies have been sold, there are, the last time I checked, 12 sequels, and three motion pictures. Now, did the authors write the books to the Glory of God or the glory of the mighty dollar? Not to mention that they perpetuate and reinforce a controversial biblical teaching.
excel, it was a test, and it worked perfectly. The one person I expected to react, did. Notice, no one else reacted to it. Your explanation is valid and appreciated, but you did not react in a negative way, neither you called me a coward. There is a difference.
To those hypocrites who say "I will not give my money to them who attack my beliefs" I will ask how many products and services they buy from companies that support, encourage and fund anti Christian actions and movements?
killianpsi, you want me to replace the stars with the actual word? OK, here it goes:
What really bugs me is all those who are "scared" heartless about the book and the movie...
You did count the stars, do you believe what I was omitting warranted another clear insult from you? It was just another test to see who is quick to jump to (false) conclusions and reduce themselves to a level not expected from a Christian.
You have proven your agenda, and I got you to admit it. Please, take your place at 1OFHIS side and enjoy my ignoring you. No, not place you on ignore, just ignoring you based on your unwarranted judgment. Just I told 1OFHIS, regardless of the "incident" I still love you.
excel, well, to each his own. For me, reading the book has strengthen my conviction and faith, especially knowing that the intent of Satan through Dan Brown has been to try to weaken my faith and beliefs. Too bad for him because he has failed miserably.
It the spirit survives death, and the soul survives death, what is then present in heaven? Both? Two entities?
Is it
"Father, into thy hand I commit my spirit and soul"
or
Father, into thy hand I commit my spirit?
Jonny, I agree to a point. The soul effectively dies, but the accumulated experience in life, which is (and for this point only I will use a similarity) saved in the "hard drive" of the mind and is "attached" to the spirit, which is eternal and indestructible.
Jonny, the soul and the physical body are intrinsically tied together. When God created Adam, He breathed His Spirit in him, and he became a living soul. Notice, Adam was not given a soul, he became a living soul the moment he became alive.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
Jonny, the way I see it and understand it, and based on the premise you present, "man" was created to die. The presence of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil and the Tree of life, in the Garden of Eden were a sure sign that, eventually, man will take the fruit. Notice that even the event was in a way orchestrated, since Satan tempted Eve with the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, not the Tree of Life.
As smart as Satan is, he failed miserably in his deception. Can you imagine what would have happened if Eve would have tasted the fruit of the Tree of Life and then the other fruit? Mankind would have been living eternally in a state of sin.
excel, if we were to get all the Christians in America to do what God asks us to do, we would have more economical power than the very Federal Government. We could have born again, true followers of Christ in the White House and every single seat in the Senate and Congress. We could have every State Governor, every city mayors, every board of education, in a word, we could be a true Christian Nation.
Jonny, good question, but first we will have to define the term "man". Is "man" a physical being alone or he is a spiritual being with a physical form?
excel, there are countless number of wealthy Christians who could put together their wealth and provide most if not all Christian education material for free. Yes for free. If God gives the wealth, then the wealth should be used for His Kingdom and His Glory.
I am to a certain point offended by these mega-churches that have a yearly budget in the millions if not tens of millions of dollars, displaying what I consider, offensive opulence and luxury, not to mention the high 6 figures salaries the pastor and others make.
It's sickening.
What really bugs me is all those who are "scared" *****less about the book and the movie, forgetting that the book and the movie did not in any way reduce or restrict the power of the Holy Spirit to educate us, guide us and give us discernment.
The book and the movie will not alienate true believers from the right path. And those who will be affected by its content, were they real Christians, after all?
Jesus Christ Himself warned us about this:
"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 24:10,13
Incidentally, the DaVinci Code was written in 2003, and not much has been said about it up until it was becoming a movie, recently. I believe many "Christian" authors have seen a gold mine in the fact and decided to jump in and take advantage. How many of these rebuttal books can you get for free, out of the author's genuine desire to inform fellow Christians? Have you seen the price tag on any and all of them? Some are even more expensive than the Code, LOL.
Most ministries offer rebuttal books for an offering, making it simply a business transaction.
Dis anyone here read the book series "Left Behind"?
So, it's not alright to buy the book and read it in order to be informed about it's claims, but it's alright to buy the books that refute the DaVinci Code. In other words, if you don't buy one, buy the other. In other wrods, it's a matter of money. Or anyone here thing that those whop wrote about the DaVinci Code, did so with the altruistic desire to inform you, not to make money?
And even if I am to accept that I should only buy the books that refute the claims, will I not be limited to only the views and opinions of the author? How reliable the author's writing is? He is after all a human being too, right?
An example:
If anyone did read the book, there is a passage where the author describes DaVinci's nasty habit of expressing his own ideas and beliefs in the paintings he was commissioned to paint, to the point that sometimes a painting had to be redone because it did not met the description requirement of the client. The same habit of DaVinci may have applied in the painting of the Last Supper, giving him a free hand to include in it any "jokes" or distortions that characterized his works. In other words, DaVinci was expressing his personality which at that time was not know to be Christian friendly.
From all I have seen in the rebuttals, I never heard of anyone bringing up the sarcastic side of DaVinci expressed in his paintings, and pointed out by Brown in his book.
killianpsi, that is something that, in my opinion, is what Satan wants us to believe, that we already know his strength and tactic. This way, we become complacent and easy prey.
killianpsi,
Is this to say that our relationship with Christ ceases upon the moment of sin?
I don't think there is anything in my post that even suggests what you imply. You continue to have a relationship with Christ, but a tainted one, a relationship that offends Christ. And until the sin is repented and then forgiven, the relationship will suffer.
killianpsi, what I can say about your comment is that I will not go into battle without being prepared and know the strength and the tactic of my enemy.
1OFHIS, life is one thing, soul is another and spirit is another. Life is given by God at conception, and to terminate it equals to murder.
Once again, you force things in my mouth or twist what I am saying. I guess it is better if I refuse to engage you any further. I will not indulge your desire to offend me or place doubts in my mind and heart.
And no, I will not put you on ignore, I am not a Fundamentalist (Extremist) and, regardless of our differences of opinions, I still believe that you are a brother/sister in Christ, and as such, I love you.
PS. A baby is not an "it".
1OFHIS, scripture is never silent. When God speaks, He means what He says, and He wouldn't say anything to confuse us or to play hide and seek with us.
1OFHIS, I will answer any question that you or anyone ask me. I have no fear, nor I feel embarrassed if I am ignorant in any issue. I trust and believe in the Holy Spirit to teach me, and guide me in my answers.
Again, if your thinking was true, you could not sin and have a true relationship with Christ. Is that what you believe?
No, that is not what I believe, neither did I ever stated anything like that. You can unwillingly sin and have a relationship with Christ, but you cannot commit a sin with consciousness and desire, and claim to have a relationship with Christ. What kind or relationship can you have with Someone who you just slapped in His face?
Do you have a true relationship with Christ? Do you sin?
Yes, I do have a true relationship with Christ, even when I commit a sin, simply because He is the only one who can wash that sin away and pay for it's consequences.
1OFHIS, we are born with sinful nature, not conceived. A child receives his spirit the moment he/she takes his/her first breath. Or you have missed that Adam was nothing but a mound of dust until God breathed life in him?
1OFHIS, so, you say you don't know one way or the other, yet you don't hesitate to say that I am wrong. Go figure, LOL.
1OFHIS, sorry, I will take Christ's word above yours. A commandment is a commandment. If we willingly disobey, we cannot have a relationship with Christ, at least not a true relationship.
1OFHIS, before you start again with accusations of twisting the scripture, read again the Covenant God made with Abraham. Why are you so eager to put words in my mouth or thoughts in my mind that are not mine?
PS. God never revealed anything in His Word that was meant not to be understood. He doesn't play games, as you imply.
PS. PS. In the Jewish tradition there is a celebration called Bar Mitzvah, when a child is no longer considered a child but becomes an adult. From that moment on, the child becomes accountable.
"The faith has to be in the One doing the catching, not in the person doing the jumping. God is a great Catcher."
Sorry, it's a little confusing. No matter how great a catcher is, I will need the faith to jump. Otherwise, I will not.
1OFHIS, you imply then that, if there was a 2 years old child in the house, he/she believed and was baptized? Forgive me, but I don't believe you.
1OFHIS, I never did nor will I ever justify disobedience, as you seem to imply you do.
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
Notice that it doesn't say: Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - and if your household believes too, it will also be saved.