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I do find it interesting that in the world we live in today JPM and the FDIC can do what they did, everyone know the facts and nothing gets done to them about it. Just goes to show you all what we are up against here. Money trumps everything. I am holding long as most here but yes I am nervous and not so postitive about what I see and read as well. Sorry you folks think this relates to being negative to use your words myself. I am not going anywhere and hope there is some sliver of hope here that we can recover something worth value. I prefer though to see justice done regardless if I lose my investment here.
One of my questions for the Q & A session for these fancy lawyers to answer is why after Equity has lost millions of dollars are we only offered 30% of value in the newcompany, why is the deal not a share for share 100% invested in the new company or optional buy out for the shares held period. Not this if this happens, or if the sky is blue on Wednesday Preferreds get 75% if DIMEQ sigs onto the agreement on Saturday. Just simple like me, one for one share for all our time invested and losses already experienced from the original investment, no whipped cream, no cherries on top something I can understand, not a bunch of he said, she said and if the Moon is full on Friday we get a new percentage if TPS and DIMEQ make a deal in another courthouse somewhere else not related but related to a BK case that should have never occurrred, blah, blah, blah. Simple a one for one share in the NEWCO for what is currently held by Preferreds and Commons or a buyout of the value set prior to the takeover in September 2008 from the initial JPM offer of $8 per share period. End of story.
To have to hold and present a Q & A report about what is in this POR7 speaks volumes to what its language really means to others lining their pockets here. I see this as the perfect example as to a teacher giving a lesson that totally understands its meaning and never once reaching any student with her hyperbole and expertise on the subject matter, thinking all the while they were getting through to them. Its called elitistlawyerspeak, other words doubletalk.
Absolutely they do not want anyone to revisit their robbery with their buddies the FDICK, they want to evade, confuse, change, revise, prolong this BK so we all forget how we ever got to this place to start with. To confuse and continue is their aim here until money is all wasted. They will win, we will lose. It's written in the Rich Book.
True enough at this point you would think some firm numbers would be the obvious thing for these so-called professionals to have come up with. But just like the diappearing act of the original Asset List, they expect we will continue to accept their vague decisions and proposals because it suits their needs, not ours. For once I would like to see some solid numbers depicting what is part of our deal, if it's zero then state so and why, if its $24 pps state so and why, if is somewhere in between state so and why.
These seem to be reasonable requests and they have had ample time to state so and why by now. The Judge is letting them play her like a violin and she is very loose with her courtroom and let's things just tag along like its just one more day in my courtroom without concern over whose playing her at any given moment in time. Perhaps she is waiting for the shoe to drop from our EC representatives whenever the leader of our pack might show up in court. The time has come Sussman to step up into the batters box and take a swing or two. How about it Sussman can you hit the curve ball?
Totally based on your bullet points this is no deal for Equity at all, going from one unknown to another unknown is how the rich folk deal with us poorer ones. Keep em' guessing and they will never know the real deal here. If we have already lost what we have to this point what is a few more cents to pay to get to the real truth and proper settlement here. One could always file that we have been misrepresented by our own EC and they have become the ones we were first fighting against here in agreeing to this latest POR 7. I am with tombrady on this one. f em all what the heck is a few more cents to lose at this point to get this done properly if that can ever be done here with all these unknown's we are no better off than in 2008 when the initial robbery occurred, we are still in the dark and the latest offering is not acceptable to me and my small position.
Just sitting around wondering why TPS is so concerned about commons getting more than they think we deserve here based on their filing. Seems they were not around to help out when JPM and FDIC robbed WAMU in the first place, why were they not concerned about commons and preferred's then getting screwed, no only now do they have an issue with commons perhaps getting a piece of the action we so well deserve regardless of any shennanigans, the shennangans began with our robbery by the FDIC and JPM, no commons. So TPS stuff it.
I stand corrected here won't be the last time. Too many eggs in this basket to keep track of them all. Everyone wants our money. TPG is correct. WTF is TPS now, get outta town.
Merry Christmas to the board and our reprenstatives here with this case.
Giving was defined one time by Mr. T. He said "if one owns 100 pairs of shoes and gives away a pair they do not wear often if at all, that is not giving, but if one owns two pairs of shoes and you give away your favorite pair that, that is giving". Happy Holidays all.
I think the TPS complaint is sour grapes and they are just attempting to change the game here for their benefit. It is a delay, delay, and delay tactic by them to make this extend out further and the Honorable Judge should see right through this, have them prove these conditions occurred. Maybe they are mad because EC had proper representation for the commons and they did not have great attorneys fighting for them, well boys that is their problem not ours, but now it is ours. I hope they Judge kicks them down the road and let JPM deal with their needs. Boo Hoo TPS you shoulda never put money into this days prior to this takeover, don't you think JPM knew what occurred here with your money so now they can swoop in and take your money along with ours. It was all in JPM's plan folks, they knew about TPS investment in WAMU and how long after did this end within a week, a month? JPM is no dummy and they are outright dangerous.
Thank you I will. eom.
OK so it is a draft, so I have no comments until the real deal is on the street then and all this hubbub is over nothing real here. Sorry but as most here we are a little on the edge more than normal. I consider your information grateful in that any confidential information of course should not come out now but a REAL POR Document should. Again we are guinea pigs so the rich folks can determine and see our reaction to the junk they spew out and where the pitfalls all are. Someone laughed at me the other day about rich lawyeres listening to what is said on a message board, but I believe they get some of their best reactions from such communication like this forum. GLTA here.
So you are saying that what has been made public for all of us to read they cannot shed any light on it's contents, WTF?
As MW has been intimate with the EC in lieu of a petition against him, although it might get him off his duff and know we are serious about his lack of information forthcoming to us shareholders, may I suggest a strong letter signed by all shareholders that he get his act together and provide some further detailed information or a removal will take place. This gives him a professional courtesy to provide it or remove himself if he realizes this pressure will end his stay here. I think a strong letter to him versus an immediate petition to remove him entirely from the situation is in order. JMHO.
So if POR7 fails again and part of our money has gone into supporting the first 6 PORS that failed, do we get out money back on those failed attempts at a settlement? Or can the lawyers always present POR's that they know will never be accepted so they reap the rewards of their payments from all our assets? I think those who state the Honorable Judge has to step in and MAKE them settle this thing no matter how long the court room saga would go on, as all the time she has allowed them to settle this behind closed doors has not happened and to me at this point she should be telling them who gets what, and to heck with their findings. We need a Judge with balls as someone stated here prior to make sure these HIGH PAID attorneys do what she is expecting them to do, get everyone on the same page and get a POR without pores in it. GLTA here.
Link to law firm for MF Global.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/mf-global-hires-two-banruptcy-law-firm-advisors-chapter-11-looms
GLTA Here.
Just so you are all aware MF Global is being represented by Weil, Gotshal and Manges law firm. Funny how money flows in these cases, can one invest in a law firm?
More on Dimon and his threats, that is what Sussman is dealing with here, and his goons. I can't recall ever threatening anyone with death. I guess Jamie had something to fear, like HE made a mistake dealing with Corzine the idiot.
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/12/jp-mograns-jaime-dimonthreatened-jon.html
http://occupylv.org/topics/jon-corzine-threatened-death-jamie-dimon
http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?26445-JP-Mogran-s-Jaime-Dimon-Threatened-Jon-Corzine-with-Death
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=224963
http://www.reallibertymedia.com/2011/12/jp-mograns-jaime-dimon-threatened-jon-corzine-with-death/
A few more links concerning Mr. professional Dimon the man, the story, the idiot, the rich folk, the criminal.
http://thepoliticalcoffeehouse.com/2011/12/15/jon-corzine-threated-with-death-jamie-dimon/
http://nesaranews.blogspot.com/2011/12/3-hours-ago-jamie-dimon-ceo-of-jp.html
http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/showthread.php?1843-Corzine/page2
http://discussions.agweb.com/showthread.php?14257-Dimon-to-Corsine-pay-up-or-you-swim-with-the-fishes
http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog/545029669
I am still researching this fact.
REgards, all.
Taking and accepting this deal means you are dealing with this person and have joined the "dark side". I will not.
JP Mogran's Jaime Dimon Threatened Jon Corzine with Death
According to Max Keiser in an interview conducted by InfoWars.com, Jaime Dimon threatened Jon Corzine with death in order to receive money out of MF Global's customers accounts prior to MF Global going bankrupt.
Max Keiser, "This is what I am hearing, basically, over at MF Global is that Corzine, of course, being someone that does not know how to run a brokering agency, a business. He was speculating in his firm MF Global he rang up a billion, uh, a billion a half dollars and it was going to come to the point that he was going to have to call his creditors which in this case, JP Morgan, and tell them he was going to go bankrupt that he wouldn't make good on that collateral. At which point, Jaime Dimon told Jon Corzine either take that money out of your customer accounts or we'll kill you. So he threatened to kill Corzine if he didn't take the money out of the customer accounts."
They have one year to join the rest of the sheeple.
For you I will do just that but bowing down to others is not in my Scottish background.
Been there done that, at peace now, no worries, go if you must but South America offers the best in retirement options and cost about $1,000 per month to live well. Thanks though I have seen enough of Russia in the last 6 years been there about 8 times and know the territory well.
I still believe that as common shareholders and preferred shareholders we should get a one for one stock in New Company, not 30% not 75% but 100% shares equal to our current ownership. This is my only issue with accepting this draft agreement right now and voting yes to its content. Forgive me but we already lost our value over the last three years, we don't need 30% less in value on stock ownership is some unknown entity. I think by holding onto this stock makes that worth something and a one for one share is what I would and could agree to.
LG, maybe he knows we think this POR is still foolish and will all vote a resounding "NO" but on the surface represents as thougth this is a good think knowing we will all reject it as he must know our M.O. by now.
Sorry for answering.
Jeff, yes myself I am mystified that all of a sudden they get some obscure figure like $75 million versus say $150 million or $400 million seems to come out of thin air, like that missing asset list, how can they even develop numbers that even make sense in this mess. Seem foolhearted and something they think folks want to hear but not a real number just out of thin air.
Anyone know if the phantom shares or short shares that do not exist will be flushed out from this exercise on voting for this POR? Or will Phantom shareholders get to vote even though they own air?
Someone at the lawyers drinking a bit too much the date objection deadline on it is January 10, 2102, hmmmmmm. We pay for this junk. Nice huh.
That cannot be true as the DIMEQ results is not known yet and it affects our agreement/settlement value, so this Judge cannot start a clock ticking on a vote from one month from tomorrow if the DIMEQ is not settled yet, and if settled in one month then we should have one month from that settlement to vote, not starting upon her decree tomorrow without the DIMEQ settlement being in place. JMHO.
Two things come to mind now about the voting process.
If one votes no or does not vote their shares will go to zero value? And then those shares will be no more, not in new company not in old company but worthless? I am assuming this to be the case. This would in fact increase the value of our PPS when these are dissolved.
If everyone votes yes then the total number of real shared purchased by legitimate means will be tallied and the amount of phnatom shares, ghost shares or non existing shares, short shares will be know which should increase our overall valuation?
I believe the above to be true with one exception.
The document I read yesterday stated that if you do not vote then you are not part of THIS plan. So is there another plan for those who do not vote or those that vote no?
GLTA here.
True, that was the wine talking, Thanks. GLTA here. Yes risk reward we all want the reward without the risk. But again we were robbed not in this cheesy BK case but in the beginning where we never should have been, we should have called the cops then that's what normal folks do when they get robbed.
Just a few observations after reading the legalese and EC letter how poinette. First of all it is not 30% it is 30% of 95% which means if you own 1,000 shares then 95% is 950 shares then 30% of that is 285 shares.
Next item is they state if you do not vote then you are not part of THIS Plan. So I assume then no other plan? Or I assume that is is you get nothing? If you vote No you then have voted so you get what the majority votes in favor of or you get nothing because you said no? This I don't quite follow as folks if allowed enough time will vote either yes or no here but if no vote you are not part of this plan, leaves me with a question mark over my head.
Also not too sure anyone here can vote without a full resolve to the DIMEQ court ruling, so to ask one to vote without this outcome being known is unfair practice and they mention it affects us shareholders so prior to this vote we should know and understand this ruling first.
Also I believe the hidden language in our letter shows us that the threat to SG was that we will litigate this forever and use all your cash and your sheep followers will get nothing, as they mention in this document that these costs would severely impact our value here, so that to me is a red flag that their opponents told them end this now or we'll kill you over time in court with obscene costs and legal fees.
All for now, having another glass of vino.
I would suppose the powers that be put this POR out to get the sentiment feedback from the sheep on what they have put out there. Now the silence from the EC is deafening and I think their retort will encompass a lot of the conerns being expressed by these board members on IHUB and Yahoo and elsewhere. This inpsires them to make a better plan of attack and process going forward and what they may have overlooked. So in essence the rich throw out some red meat and see how we react to it like lab rat experiment and soon they will have their full compliment of comebackers and statements to compile into this nice little letter we are awaiting here. So in closing our commentary may end up being part of their retort to this latest grand POR achievement or lack thereof. GLTA here, and diamond I must say you are one consistent SOB. Who loves ya brother.
Yes, but I'll be danged if I buy a drink for a face like that one. But yes I will be here crying in my beer with the rest of the group here counting my pennies.
Hey what about my pockets? Oh that's right they don't count either.
A letter, you are all waiting on some letter drafted up by someone who just screwed you. No go figure that one out. We need one of our enemies who wrote this garbage to now issue to the common folk (sheep) a letter now explaining how they screwed us and how bad this deal really is. Now do you think for one stinking moment that this letter will engratiate us and tell us the truth that we want to hear. No it will make your eyes gloss over and you will once again be drinking at the Kool Aid troth and still want more from these thieves. I'll send you a letter if that is what you all need here.
It states in kind, "OK you idiots (sheep) now that we laid out a great plan that is so complicated that you cannot even tell or grasp if you are coming or going or if you own anything or not of any value, now we will write you a nice little letter describing exactly what nail we are driving into your coffins next'. Read the fine print folks, this stock will self destruct in 5 seconds. They do not owe any of us any explanation of their legalese terminology and what x and y mean, they only owe it to themselves to pat themselves on the back for doing themselves a favor here. Don't expect much from them folks they are rich folks remember and don't need you or me around to tickle them. They can get that for free downtown every night. Letter I'll give you all a freaking letter, here it is 'A'. There you have it the letter 'A'. Stands for Azzholes, that is us.
CWG, "not I" said the cow, I don't speak lawyerspeak, that is my own problem I have been dealing with over the last three years of even attempting to understand what is in any of the filed documents. I speak construction speak so someone perhaps with a clue let us in on this little tidbit as you put it General. GLTA here.
Biz and I think this is the only reason the commons were given some pennies in this settlement if it even turns out to be that. Everyone in those closed door rooms knew it was a robbery gone bad and this is what they all think we will accept, heck all the lawyers will get their money becuase no rich folks go to jail, especially golden boy jd. But commons is still here because rich folks broke the law but there is no punishment for them so they punish all of us instead and say we did the right thing, then get us to believe it all.
I am beginning to think that the newly reorganized WMI is not the same entity as the New Company. Two different meanings.