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I think that's a stretch to conclude they are in mass production. I doubt they would be able to currently fulfill a large order for one company ,say Reebok, let alone multiple companies. When they can do that , to me, they will be in mass production. In comparison , they are only fulfilling a small test sample order for the army for shoot packs. Hardly mass production.
Well that's good to hear but then again Devil is in the details. I wonder how long it would take for Indiana to produce a metric ton.
I'm also a little concerned about quality until they can use real leaves. They're feeding the worms some reconstituted stuff. Hopefully it's good enough to pass army testing.
I agree with pretty much everything you said although I assume they can probably create fabric out of the slime like Bolt is doing with yeast and spider proteins.
At the end of the day, this is still just a company of two men. How much can two men get done after eating , sleeping , vacations, sick time , personal time etc ? They need to bring onboard folks who have the record and experience to take this to the next level. I can't help but wonder what the shark tank would be like for Kim and Jon. I think they'd get shredded by the sharks.
Lol good one :)
Slime eels have inspired new materials designed to protect troops in combat
https://qz.com/909157/slime-eels-or-hagfish-have-inspired-new-materials-designed-to-protect-soldiers-in-combat/
Gwynn Guilford
At first glance, the life of a hagfish—also known as the slime eel—may not seem very inspiring. The blind, jawless fish scours the seafloor in search of dead sea creatures to eat. But when threatened, a hagfish reveals its strange Spider-Man-like power: It spews forth gummy, gelatinous goop that clogs up the predator’s gills, or just leaves them with a mouthful of tacky gunk.
It’s hard not to be impressed by such effective self-protection. Now two scientists at the US Navy are betting that the hagfish’s slimy defense mechanism could wind up helping humans, too.
“Our goal is to produce a substance that can act as non-lethal and non-kinetic defense to protect the warfighter,” Josh Kogot, biochemist at the US’s Navy’s surface warfare center, said on the Navy’s website. He and his colleague, military materials engineer Ryan Kincer, have created a synthetic version of the slime for just this purpose.
navy-hagfish-1-ron-newsome
Powerful goop. (US Navy/Ron Newsome)
Among the more appealing properties of the slime is that a little hagfish goo goes a long way. It is composed of two crucial protein-based components. The first is a thread—which can reach up to 15 centimeters (5.9 inches) in length when fully extended—coiled and spring-loaded like a can of prank snakes. When the hagfish emits its goopy blitz, the seawater dissolves the protein, letting the threads shoot forth. Meanwhile, the second protein binds to water, gumming up the flow of water between the threads, creating “a three-dimensional viscoelastic network,” as Kincer put it.
“The coiled up thread behaves like a spring and quickly unravels upon contact with water due to stored energy,” he said. “Studies have shown the hagfish secretion can expand up to 10,000 times its initial volume.”
For a visual, here’s how resilient hagfish slime is out of water:
This should give you an inkling of why scientists have been trying to recreate the slime-binding protein threads for a while now. Removed from water, the hagfish slime fibers are soft yet incredibly strong—sort of like spider silk—and could be ideal for protective gear. (Kogot likens the threads to Kevlar, best-known for its use in bulletproof vests.) At the same time, the protein-based threads could prove to be sustainable alternatives to synthetic oil-based materials like nylon or spandex. Though it’s been possible to bundle fibers from the threads of hagfish slime, Kincer and Kogot may have finally pulled off a process that might allow for larger-scale production—by creating a synthetic.
The two scientists re-rigged the bacteria E. coli to produce two of the proteins from hagfish slime. When combined with a solution, these protein threads uncoiled. Under an electron microscope, the threads in the lab goop and the hagfish goop proved a match.
Though it’s not yet clear how exactly the Navy might apply its hagfish-inspired technology, the scientists seem to have plenty of ideas.
Synthetic hagfish slime could prove useful in, for example, ballistics protection, firefighting, or anti-shark spray, said Kogot. “The possibilities are endless.”
Yep. Navy is looking to use the slime from some fish ; hagfish I think ? Stronger than spider silk.
Right and like Mike said , they could be used to complement each other. Still what's the point of imagining this when we can't mass produce yet.
Anyone care to conjecture whether we can get Texas or Indiana to produce metric tons economically or are we just screwed if Vietnam doesn't happen. I currently have assumed Texas and Indiana are specifically for only the army and r&d.
I just want to see our silk in literally ANYTHING at this point lol. I don't care what it is. Just get it out there already KT lol
Well I know of another company, liquidmetal technologies , that's been working on something similar. It's an amorphous metal foam. Same thing. Shatters bullets but amorphous metals (also called metallic glass) are still cost prohibitive and they are also limited by how large they can make them. They have so far not been able to commercialize it and they've been at it for years.
I wonder if this other group has overcome all those obstacles.
Yep. Doesn't help our stock at all though lol but it's cool.
Thanks for the explanation; let's hope you're right! It makes a lot of sense now that I think of it. We all know how cautious , slow and deliberate Kim moves. And how penny pinching he is. I like your theory.
He must have serious confidence and financing already lined up for him to start up two facilities back to back.
I'm not looking forward to a long silent period however. Let's hope it's fast.
Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand.
Lol well that's what this stock is to me. A roulette wheel. Im willing to wait for either result. Either eventually it will go belly up like most penny stocks or it will become a powerhouse IF KT can ever mass produce at a cost effective price. Right now i give this company 50/50 odds of being successful. I just don't know what's going to happen. On one hand , I feel pretty good and optimistic. 2 million shares at less than a nickel cost average. I'm above the water line. (For now. I don't pretend to know how low it will go back to. )
On the other hand, KT just doesn't have much credibility left with me.
I agree again lol
Agreed but then why do I get the sense you're trying to get an argument out of me lol.
I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I don't know if it is or isn't. Neither do you.
I agree on that point but I was referring to his question of consistency. You'd think they wouldn't say that unless consistency between generations has been resolved. But again, KT is like The riddler and they've put out many statements that didn't prove true so I don't believe anything at this point. My bet has been been placed long ago and I'm just watching the little ball bounce around on the roulette wheel.
I'll add that they said it's ready for scale and sale so to me that means no issues with consistencies. Then again , its like we have the riddler for a CEO so who knows.
Didn't that question come up in the 2015 cc? I thought it was asked and answered but I could be wrong. For some reason, I thought they had confirmed that they have consistency between generations. Maybe someone else can point to it; now you have me concerned thanks lol
"Then there's the limited resources scenario that KBLB refuses to get out in front of as of late...."
Wait, don't they have unlimited resources? Just generate and sell more shares ! The golden goose will keep laying those eggs.
"Maybe I should refer to myself since I have to rely on many of you smarter investors, scientists, businessmen to make my decisions. I haven't got the time nor skills to digg as deep as you guys can. "
Me either. Im just a regular joe. Congrats on the low cost average :)
Thanks for the info Mike. Good to know we can beat them on price. Now if KT would just get an agreement in Vietnam...
Precisely. Thank you for communicating what I failed to.
Hey Bob, you and I actually have mostly the same outlook. I just think you're a tad more optimistic than I am lol
And drink the kool-aid a little more. Just a teensy weensy tiny bit. Lol. Who we kidding. You swim in a pool filled with kool -aid ;)
Lol we actually agree. I'm tired of beating that dead horse. Now Ive just been responding to those who are putting words in my mouth. But yes, I don't want to talk about a cc anymore. Its out of my system. I have to get off this board. I don't know about you guys but I actually have a real job.
Been there , done that. They won't address my number one issue which is the lack of conference calls. They just don't feel like they have to. And they're right. They don't have to. Pretty lousy way to treat your shareholders though. As I just said to ES1, I'm not calling KT a liar. I don't think he's lied. I think he withholds the whole truth. Which is his right to a large extent. And when you go out and talk about producing metric tons soon and then your shareholders obviously think the company must be producing metric tons by now , but as CEO you refuse to confirm or deny it for years and you refuse to hold a cc and just remain silent ...well in my book that's clearly deception or at least misleading.
Look I can wait 20 years for something to happen with this stock. I'll just keep accumulating more in the meantime. But that doesn't work for other shareholders. His job is to increase shareholder value. He hasn't done it. I think or hope he will eventually. My frustration is with the lack of communication. Real communication. Not newsletters. KT damages his own credibility imho. This is the only stock where you can gamble or invest in spider silk. He is squandering opportunities to act like a credible responsible public company.
ES1, that's not what he said though. Now let me address what you said because it seems there's a lot of mind reading going on here or connecting dots that don't exist. That may have been my fault for not being precise ...
So I'll say again or put in different words. I do not think kblb is a scam. I do not think KT is a fraud. I believe KT is TRYING to run a successful company, just not doing a very good job to date. One of a public CEOs fiduciary duties is to increase shareholder value. Has he done that?
I think or at least am wagering that Kraig Biocraft WILL eventually be a VERY successful company and I think the stock price will one day reflect that. One of the reasons I'm loooong is exactly what you pointed out which is KT is the largest shareholder by far.
I was referring to specific areas where I feel KT intentionally misled shareholders. That's my opinion. I don't state it as fact. I could be wrong. I can't read his mind anymore than you all can read mine.
I never said he was lying. I said he's been withholding pertinent information that I think shareholders should have had. My opinion is that it he intentionally misled shareholders for years by allowing shareholders to continue to believe that metric tons of monster silk were being made, that commercialization was around the corner etc. I don't want to keep re-hashing every point. My point is he had to be aware that many shareholders were under this impression. I personally wrote in and called in trying to get answers about it. I'm sure others did. This is why Ive repeatedly asked them for a CC; so they could clear up many questions and give updates on past forward looking statements. Its my opinion KT did not want to cause a panic and tank the share price by putting out bad news without having something positive to add. And so he chose to remain silent. That, to me, is misleading investors because at that point they did not have all the information. I don't think he broke any laws. As we all know, you can make forward looking statements and are not required to update on them. Just because its legal , doesn't make it ethical. I think he knowingly misled by knowingly allowing shareholders to think we were much farther along than we were.
Ok this is a dead horse. I hope.
Re: dragon_silk Post# 117742
"But see that's the contradiction in your statements. You are preaching about how people shouldn't put their life savings into this investment but at the same time you are saying you think it will eventually happen for kblb to succeed. "
lol I think you may want to look up the definition of contradiction. I do not see your link between the two at all.
So you think it's good advice to put your life savings in a penny stock? Did you? I hardly think saying I feel bad for those who did so based on KT's past statements is "preaching" but if you feel it is , you're welcome to switch to another church and put me on ignore :) Im not concerned with whether you think I'm genuine in my feeling bad for others.
You sound a little defensive and sensitive ; I hope I did not touch a nerve. I'm genuinely sorry if you're one of those who have been burned. I'd suggest you take it up with KT though , not me.
I do however see a contradiction in your post though. At first you refer to kblb as an investment then you refer to it as a gamble. I suppose it can be both for some. For me, kblb is just a gamble. A lottery ticket. Not Mecca.
"
There are those hoping to retire on it....
With visions of monumental gains invading the psyche. "
And that's alright. Its good to have hopes and dreams. I have them to. I'd just hate to see anyone lose their shirts. And although Kim is not responsible for their financial decisions , he does have a fiduciary duty to timely inform shareholders of significant or material changes in the company.
Now he's the lawyer , not me, and I'm sure many will come to Kim's defense and in the legal sense I'm sure his butt is covered. From a moral or ethical viewpoint I believe Kim performed an intentional act of misleading shareholders and failed in his fiduciary duty as CEO by not timely updating shareholders that there was no fiber production in progress.
It may not have cost you or I much but I feel terrible for those who, god forbid, did trust KT enough to put their life savings into this company based on his allusion to metric tons and near term commercialization. His forward looking statements aren't the problem. Its his lack of timely updates and follow up on those forward looking statements that are the problem. At least morally and ethically, imho. At least a yearly cc would have cleared some of those outstanding questions up.
I think KT intentionally does not hold CCs specifically so he does not have to answer those questions and it allows him to deflect responsibility. He can claim he's not responsible since all he's put out are forward looking statements. By not saying anything for so long, I'm sure many here thought metric tons were under way. Kim gave that impression. Specifically , I remember Banana thought it was underway. Look how loyal Banana is to the company and he's in constant contact with Ben. KT clearly has no sense of moral obligation to his shareholders , let alone Banana.
Again. I'm betting it all eventually happens and KT finally gets his Vietnam agreement, despite his fumbles. I just one day hope he recognizes he's a terrible CEO and hires someone with the proper skill set to get business deals done. As majority shareholder he can remain fully in control as founder and chairman.
Vietnam should have happened by now. He should have set up a facility like Indiana years ago in the US. He's wasted a lot of time. Only now does he seem to have a sense of urgency. No doubt , because he is suddenly feeling the heat of the competition. He may have already seen companies walk away. Whatever happened with SSM by the way? I think that may be another update we never got.
According to at least one article , Adidas is pretty anxious to start making spider silk products. I can't help but wonder if we had them as an interested partner first and then they finally got tired of waiting and started working with Bolt Threads. We'll never know. Speculation on my part. What we do know is KT mentioned a "sports apparel company" back in 2015 and we haven't heard anything since.
"One thing I don't do is count on a stock to make me happy, as there are way too many variables to consider."
lol that's not what I meant although I can see how you reached that conclusion since I was vague.
Im already happy in my daily life. Im not looking for any stock to give my life meaning lol. I simply meant that kblb has the potential to allow me to give my family financial stability for generations to come after I'm long gone. That's what this is all about. I have everything I need or want.
If it doesn't work out, no big deal. Its always been a long shot lotto ticket venture for me.
Kblb does not belong in anyone's retirement portfolio , that's for sure , and I hope no one here has gambled with their life savings.
Best way I can explain where my thoughts are on this whole thing is this:
I think spider silk in general has a great future and this is currently the only spider silk company to invest in, so far as buying publicly traded shares. The competition is heating up but as of now there is still no clear leader.
I think KT is a very smart man and am grateful he founded this company but has to be one of the worst CEOs in regards to transparency, communication and honesty. Also seems to be lousy in making deals and partnerships. I think he intentionally misled shareholders for years now. He knows he led shareholders to believe that they were already making metric tons for years and were closer to commercialization than they were.
I hope one day he's smart enough to recognize his own weaknesses and hands the CEO role to someone who can make deals. Probably never going to happen though.
So in my book HE earns a D or F in those categories. Having said that , I'm wagering this company and shareholders will eventually be rewarded despite all the missteps and delays. I just won't pretend to know when that is. It could still be several years out. So I wait. Its not the waiting that bothers me. Ive got nothing but time. Its the fact that competition is clearly heating up and kblb can lose relevance if they continue to take so long. Its also KT's poor CEO skills.
You can appreciate what he's accomplished so far and still think he's a terrible CEO. That is where I am coming from.
To be clear , I don't think this is a scam like some people. The opposite. I think this company has the potential to be a huge game changer. I hope to not sell one share of my stock one day until I'm ready to retire which is decades away. I'm trying to get rich but not necessarily rich quick. That's where I'm greedy. I don't want to sell a share until this company is a household name. So hence either I'll lose my entire investment. Which is a good possibility. At which point I'll say it was still worth taking the gamble and life goes on. Or I'll have secured financial stability for my family, grandkids and their families. Kblb = my Lotto ticket.
Of course he would hide it. That's his MO. Unfortunately I agree with you 100 percent.
The army deal is definitely not in the bag. I'm not counting on it.
Nothing is in the bag. Not Vietnam , nothing.
I can't say this enough. kblb is just a big penny stock gamble.
I figure it's better than buying lottery tickets though. Odds are better here lol
Ive considered it but I'm just not a trader at heart. I don't have the stomach for it. Plus I'm greedy. I prefer to just accumulate on the bottoms. So kblb will make me very happy or not. I can afford to wait. I just don't like our CEOs performance to date.
Ive never sold a share of kblb. I'm a buy and hold kinda guy.
I'm not so sure. I hope you're right. I'm most concerned about bolt Threads. If they succeed in automating their process and scaling it up to industrial scale , they could be very competitive. We're going to be susceptible to things like damaged crops due to weather or pests and therefore the cost of feeding worms could increase. We'll be more exposed to labor rates and workers rights and things of that nature than a company like bolt Threads since we'll obviously have more manual labor involved. I do hope and expect us to be less expensive but it's still an unknown variable at this point I think because I think our costs will be relatively consistent whereas they should be able to continue to bring their costs down over time as they scale and automate.
Yep that goes for all of us. Nothing on this message board really matters. All that matters are results from kblb. And so we wait and wait and wait ....
I don't even like being on the internet , let alone posting. Wish I never started. I see now how one can get addicted. I have to now ween myself off. This is a waste of my time lol
Despite my problems with KT, Ruskie, I'm still here because my cost average is below
5 cents and I see more upside than downside at this point. We're near the bottom. It's all about odds and risk and right now I feel comfortable waiting. If KT finally lands an agreement with Vietnam , that alone should make this pop over at least 10 cents. For me personally, I can't walk away at this point, not when things are finally getting interesting and having waited so long. Everyone has to make their own choice but that's why I remain.
I'd still like to see KT hand the CEO job over to someone who knows how to wheel and deal. KT can keep the lab coat on and play with worms. That's my wish. (Never gonna happen though )
Forward looking statements are one thing; not updating your shareholders about those forward looking statements for years on end is quite another. I believe KT intentionally misled us to believing that metric tons of monster silk was being produced for years. I believe he intentionally led us to believe for years that we were much closer to commercialization than we were. He knew that if he came out and gave us a timely honest update that many shareholders would bale and the stock would plummet. It seems when he has only bad news to share , he remains silent. He only recently revealed all the bad news only when he had good news to counteract it. To purposely keep shareholders on the hook for years thinking commercialization was around the corner and a ramp up of metric tons of monster silk was being produced is pretty messed up imho. I know banana had thought metric tons was being produced all that time from his many hopeful posts.
I agree. Better was a poor choice of words. I meant the others have much more cash. As we all know, sometimes it takes money to make money. I'm not crazy about CSC but it's not poisonous financing. The slow drip of increasing dilution is killing us slowly though imho.
I'm all for frugality to an extent. As the saying goes. Penny wise, pound foolish.
Not sure of your point. KAIST didn't get a mention and Bolt did. What am I missing ?