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I think I'm going to refrain from discussing politics any further. It's a pointless argument really, as none of us hold any authoritative positions within the government.

I have not heard about that, but did skim over it.

Yes I agree, corruption happens. However, I doubt America has ever been a threat to society in general such as Saddam has.

I agree that corruption has occurred. But I would suspect that they have never endangered world security like terrorist organizations threaten to.

Agreed. The constitution is not infallible. It is, for the most part, an amazing blueprint for freedom, but exceptions do need to be taken into consideration. The founding fathers could have never imagined the threats of modern society.

So you'd let the entire world spin into mass chaos because of a 200 year old peice of paper?

I respect the rights and freedoms just as much as the next citizen. We need to cherish them, as they protect us from everyday harm. But the threat we have encounted is one of a kind. It's a life or death matter for all humanity. We live in an interesting time, it's easily the safest and simultaneously, the most dangerous time ever in human history.

America is not a religion, don't treat it as so. I greatly respect those who die for our country in the unfortunate wars we have fought. But this is a far greater threat. We're risking far more than a few select brave men and women who go off to battle to defend our freedoms. America itself could cease to exist. Then what good is the constitution or our "rights"?

Do you ever ask yourself why GWB has not vigorously pursued OBL?

Who says he hasn't vigorously pursued him? When was the last time you were in Afghanistan?

Oh boo hoo.You still miss my point.

If such an event that I described occurred, we wouldn't need our rights or our freedom because we'd be dead. Mass riots, further terrorist attacks, no electricity or running water would ENSURE chaos, murders, and absolutely NO order in society. People would scramble away from major cities for the country out of fear of more attacks.

Ever seen the movie Independence Day? Imagine that, except replace the spaceships with nuclear weapons or the threat of a nuclear weapon. And don't think for a second it couldnm't happen. If we could do that to another country (everyone knows we have the firepower), there is no reason why someone else couldn't do it to us.

If you told the founding fathers that one day terrorists from the Arabia will hijack giant flying machines and crash them into our 1100 foot tall buildings, they'd laugh you silly and have you institutionalized under the ground of insanity.

You still are missing my entire point. You want to risk world wide devastation because of a document written by people 200 years ago, who in their wildest imaginations, could conceive of a nuclear threat.

and I believe there are greater risks in not honoring basic laws regarding humanitarian treatment all people... we are at greater risk of losing our civil rights and liberties (which we are supposedly fighting for) when we let our government tromple them.

I dare you, name one risk that is greater than the threat I described.

As technology advances, more and more people will have access to more and more advanced technologies, including weapons, that has always been true. 30 years ago how much did a handheld calculator cost? Now they give them away. Imagine what will happen with destructive weapons that could devastate entire civilizations.

person should have the opportunity to prove themselves innocent and the arresting authorities has the obligation to prove they are guilty.

At the expense of what? World wide devastation? That's a large price to pay for a "right."

If someone nabs an old lady's purse or robs a bank, yes your statement is true, without a doubt 100%. But when it comes to terrorism and national security, EVERY possible action to assure national security should be taken, no exceptions. The government needs to operate in a state of "paranoia" like they have. Don't you really think they tell us everything they know? All the threats? Who says there wasn't something more to the stories you read? If the government is violating our constitutional rights, you can bet there is a valid reason for it. They know of a danger that we don't and they're doing what they can to assure our safety . The government is a tyrannical cyclopes out to steal out rights. The government is made up of US citizens just like you and me. Most have husbands and wifes and children at home, just like everyone. They want to assure safety for everyone. Give them a little space to do that.

sarals, All I'm saying is that the risk we're putting the world in by "playing by the books" and only doing "what is necessary", isn't worth it. You can't roll dice and hope for the best when it comes to stuff like this.

There is a big difference though. We have the world's best interests in mind, despite what you think. Not all countries should have an equal say in things, there needs to a dominate authority in the world, otherwise there will be mass chaos.

And so what? He was arrested. What if he really was the guy? There is a reason why the government arrests so many people. They want to ASSURE saftey for the free world. If it means national security, that guy can sit in a jail cell for a few days until everything is cleared up. You still don't understand the danger the world is in.

What is our country doing right now? Tell me. So we tore apart Iraq? So what? When have we ever been a harm to peaceful countries?

We're trying to get rid of people that are and will be a danger to world security.

So you're saying we should only go after people AFTER they committ the crime? If the situations I described ever happened, well, it would be far too late and the damage would be beyond irreversible.

The world needs to unite together and unarm smaller nations who are a threat to society, like Saddam was. He was a madman with a lot of power.

Also, I honestly don't believe the Saudi's ever supported terror. The Saudi's actually deported Osama bin Lauden because of his terror ties. He was also disowned from his family because of his radical views, few people pay any attention to that. Saudi Arabia is one of our closest middle eastern allies.

sarals, Let me explain something to you. I think you're missing something.

First I will say, I do support our rights as Americans. We're very fortunate to have them. We're all very lucky to live in America where we have rights to protect ourselves.

However second of all, I must warn you, there is a danger brewing. You seem to lack the imagination to fathom such an event. Since the dawn of the nuclear age, there have been enemies of America trying desperately to build a nuclear weapon. Bush does not say much about this for fear of scaring the American public, we all just assume it's implied. It's well known that Saddam was actively trying to acquire the materials used for a nuclear weapon, and as time goes by, and information and the technology become more and more available, it's going to much easier for terror groups to acquire the materials and expertise to build a nuclear weapon.

Now let's imagine for a second. Imagine a terror group with a nuclear bomb and a vendetta against America. What kind of devastation would occur if a large scale nuclear bomb was set off on Manhattan? Or what about Washington DC? Or practically any other large city? Imagine millions dead. The economic lifeblood of the entire world completely wiped out. Economic devastation would occur, far beyond the great depression. And being America is the economic center of most of the world, it's almost certain the entire world would share our misery. Imagine how much that would effect the world. And no, I'm not being unrealistic.

Every few hundred years a major event occurs that sends the world into a tailspin...what has happened in the last 200 years? Hardly anything.

I'm not saying this will happen unless we do something, I'm only saying there is a very realistic chance it could happen within the next 100 years. There are certainly people with the motive to make it happen.

We as modern day Americans are spoiled. We live in sort of a fantasy land, far away from the awful state of being that has existed on this planet since the dawn of time. Maybe folks like you are just optimists. "Oh just forget about it, it will all be fine, it always is." You say. But you'd think differently if you had to experience one of the few world catastrophes that send entire civilizations into mass chaos. And FYI, 9/11 was NOT a "world catastrophe," it was not even CLOSE, not by a LONG SHOT. It was a drop in the ocean compared to what could have happened.

Few of us have bothered to open up a history book and read about the major world events that have taken place in the past 2,000 years. And when we do read about them, they're more like fiction to us. Few of us grasp the concept that "those things really happened." And even fewer understand that similar events could very well take place on this Earth and in our modern era.

You don't want people looking at your library records? In exchange for what? Risking world wide devastation, millions dead, and world wide economic depression that would probably last for a century or more?

You want rights for terror suspects? Do you honestly believe they're going to arrest random people off the street? I hardly think that's the case. And even if they do, so they arrest a few hundred, or perhaps a few thousand people.

Many government officials openly said that none of us could have had the imagination to seriously fathom such an event as 9/11? We couldn't imagine such small event as 9/11?!? Compared to the possible situations I just suggested, I think that's proof we're living in our own fantasy land.

I honestly don't know if you think I'm being unrealistic, and I am not suggesting that this is inevitable, because it's not. The point I'm trying to make is, realistic odds exist of the events I just described. Probably more realistic than what any of us could imagine.

For the sake of all of humanity and all of the future generations, we owe it to them not to be careless with this. To be honest, it's still very early in the process. It's not likely anything like that would happen next week. But give the world 50 years. Imagine the technological innovations we'll have by then. And guess what, we won't be the only ones with access to that technology. Terrorist will have it too, and they'll use it against us as best they can.

By being careless with this, and allowing stubborn people like yourself to get in the way of national and global security measures is borderline suicidal.

Just like those testifying at the 9/11 hearings, I don't think you and so many others can even begin to grasp the danger the world is in unless something is done. And all this, you don't want our government to see your LIBRARY RECORDS?!? Give me a break!

invading Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror

Yes it did. We invaded Iraq because we thought they were a threat to society because Bush thought they had WMDs. There was no connection found between them and any of the terror groups involved with 9/11, but they themselves were viewed as a terror group and had the potential to do harm to others.

Someone with an ego would not have asked for the opinions of others as I have. I simply wanted to know the board's perceptions of him.

What do you suggest it should say?

Agreed Janice. I think he's untrustworthy; a fast talker.

No I do not. It was relayed to me via a Yahoo voice chat session from a cassette recording of a phone conversation. To my knowledge, it is currently not online.

Agreed. The circus is popular for a reason. LOL. Similar concept with him. Amazing yet looney.

He is from Canada, perhaps they spell it differently there. Or maybe it was a typo.