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Welcome back, John. Since the historical record shows that it takes 2-4 days for news of this magnitude to fully affect the PPS, you just might be early enough in the pop to establish a profitable position. Best of luck to you.
PS: Not to worry about any potential yelling; I was deafened by owd3 quite a while back.
Perhaps, Tim. But I get a lot of voyeuristic pleasure from watching certain onanistic posters skewing themselves.
It is my humble opinion that several posters here are merely tootsie rolls in the gene pool.
Nathan, strictly IMHO, Gateway went with an EDIG off the shelf JB design for several compelling commercial reasons: they needed a design that was technically competent to go head to head with the market leaders; they needed a mature design able to be produced in time for the holiday buyers; they needed a design that could easily be adapted to current DRM standards accompanying the proliferation of legal downloads; they needed a design that would differentiate them from their rivals at Dell; most importantly, they needed an economically efficient design that could contribute the most bang for the buck, both to consumers and to their bottom line.
Gateway is effectively betting the company on their move into CE products beyond computers (see CNN today - http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/12/technology/techinvestor/hellweg/ ). The fact that they selected EDIG's design speaks volumes with regards to our ability to compete in a crowded marketplace.
So you didn't actually mean to say "Gateway chose the product, they didnt choose edig."? I really can't read "they didn't choose edig." more than one way, can I? When I said that Gateway chose EDIG, I thought it fairly obvious that I was referring to Gateway's choice of an EDIG design for a jukebox (as opposed to Dell's choice of CREAF, etc). After all, we are now in the business of selling designs, not hardware. That's been common knowledge at least as far back as Collier's departure.
So you're telling me that Gateway went to their OEM and said "gimme any old MP3 jukebox that I can flog for $299"? Do you realize how utterly lame that sounds? Surely you can do better than that. Also, am I to assume that you're speaking for Cassandra here?
Having said all that (ad nauseum, IMHO), the question remains 'why did Gateway choose an insolvent company like EDIG over the big boys like CREAF, SBLU, etc.?' You seem a virtual font of opinions, so why not address the question directly? Anxiously awaiting your reply,
Tinroad
Further to the point, the last time we intro'd a product to the market around Black Friday we did so with a tiny company, poor quality control, and no advertising beyond flyer inserts from the retailers. (I refer to the Classic XP3 of 2001.) This time 'round, it's a new ball, new team, and a much bigger arena. I fully expect that the results will be appreciably different. In fact, I'm betting a bunch on it with nary a drop of sweat on my brow.
Fact remains, Cassie, that Gateway obviously didn't buy a pig in a poke. They darn well knew who would be providing the technology to the OEM and decided to go with EDIG rather than Creative, Sonic Blue, or any of the others. That may not suit your purposes, but it's a stone cold fact that no amount of spinning can obscure.
Perhaps they planned to file a potentially dilutive S-3 at 0.60 or better, rather than at 0.20-0.30?
Dunno 'bout you, SSI, but I'm in no hurry to place my 'Limit Profit' orders just yet. Why leave a party when it's just getting started?
Things are unfolding exactly as promised, Pam. The delays imposed by the music industry's footdragging almost brought us down. However, after a 4 year hiatus, we seem to be getting our foot firmly in the door at last. All good things come to those who can afford to wait.
And yet, despite all the gloom and doom pronouncements, billion dollar companies like Gateway are bringing us business and the PPS steadily climbs. How do you account for such contrary behavior? Is Gateway being duped, or are you? Are we to believe that Gateway, with a vested interest in their supplier, does less diligent research than an anonymous message board poster/non-shareholder? IMHO, these are valid questions that need to be addressed.
Gateway DMP-X20 Mp3 Jukebox
Wednesday November 12, 2003 11:17 AM EST
By: Fabrizio Pilato
Gateway has released several new portable consumer electronics products, one of which is their first portable MP3 jukebox. The Gateway DMP-X20 has a 20GB hard drive and is priced well at $299. It measures 3.9 inches high by 2.6 inches deep by 0.83 inches thick and weighs 7.7 ounces. Gateway has already started taking pre-orders, and plans to begin shipping the units on November 26.
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/337/C2232/
owd3, it appears that you are busy stomping ants while being lassoed by a boa constrictor. Carry on.
Cass, I believe my post was clearly marked as OT; also, the HD100 is still featured on the MPIO site in Germany ( http://www.mpio.de/site_eng/ ) and also at their Swiss site ( http://www.mpio.ch/ ). I believe that the main marketing effort for the HD100 was and is focused on the EU.
OT/FWIW re HD200:
http://www.tu-and-tu.com/hd200.html
Here ya go, freddie:
A few Gateway posts from Oct:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1557060
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1521547
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1522048
Lots more here: http://www.investorshub.com/boards/msgsearchbyboard.asp?boardid=299&SearchStr=gateway&maxmsg...
Strictly IMHO, we'll be paying Digitalway $400-500 per unit and keeping $200 or so for ourselves, leaving $300-400 gross profit per unit for APS. Licensing fees for the DivX codec are probably paid by either us or Digitalway. Just a guess, but what isn't these days?
OT re FNIX:
Adjusted for RS, EDIG fared better as a long term hold:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.asp?Symbol=FNIX%2C+EDIG&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Ch...
Short term, even better:
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.asp?Symbol=FNIX%2C+EDIG
The record shows that the first instance of you referring to the Dell DJ as a Creative product came in response to Murgirl's posting of the article containing Apple's comments to the same effect. ( http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=1499971 ). If you claim otherwise, post a link to prove it.
Actually, based on the point of origin of the Dell DJ (Malaysia), I suspect it might be these guys:
http://www.pcatechnology.com/services/services.png
Chatroom link:
http://www.tgllive.com/tgllive.htm
The Dell MP3 device also shows the growing role disk drives are playing in portable music players and in consumer electronics more generally. Hitachi Global Storage Technologies is supplying the 1.8-inch diameter drives in the Dell DJ, marking a major customer win for Hitachi. Hitachi announced the 1.8-inch drive earlier this year and began shipping it to customers in July.
"Dell is our most significant and earliest customer to adopt this (drive) in high volumes," said Bill Healy, Hitachi's senior vice president of consumer and commercial hard-disk drives.
http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/personaltech/0,39001147,39156203,00.htm
Uhhhh, not so fast there. Although the music files can be transferred to the O 1000 using the Windows USB driver, they aren't playable until reconciled. The Reconcile program is EDIG's, not MSFT's.
Nope; the Zen 20 MB version uses a 2.5" Fujitsu MHS2020AT. AFAIK, Fujitsu doesn't offer a 1.8" drive yet.
From the FWIW dept:
Creative's Nomad Zen uses a Fujitsu hard drive (EDIG JBs use IBM/Hitachi Travelstars}.
Napster-branded player offering more than iPod
By Matthew Fordahl, Associated Press
Sunday, October 26, 2003
FOR TWO YEARS, Apple Computer Inc.'s iPod has reigned supreme among hard-drive music players, both for Windows and Macintosh users. Now the competition is getting serious. Just in time for holiday wish lists, Samsung is launching a 20-gigabyte player cobranded with the relaunched Napster service. The YP-910GS is priced at $399 -- the same as Apple's 20-gigabyte iPod for Windows and Mac computers.
But that's not the only similarity. The Samsung unit has roughly the same dimensions and weight as the iPod. Both gadgets are dominated by a small liquid crystal display and navigation controls around a large center button.
However, to Samsung's credit, its new player isn't just another iPod copycat.
It has a line-in jack so it can record by itself. It can tune into and record FM radio stations. And, with an included antenna, it can transmit FM signals, allowing its music to be picked up by any nearby radio, such as a car stereo.
Navigation on the Samsung unit, which can hold 5,000 songs, is more complicated than on the iPod. The control to skip forward and backward is on the right side and moves up or down, not the more intuitive left or right. Volume is controlled by the front's large button, which also is used to move between selections.
The iPod, by comparison, is much simpler: All the important buttons are conveniently -- and intuitively -- placed around the jog dial on the front of the unit.
The Samsung's battery life is excellent, with the player running continuously for 10 hours as promised. It lasted about three hours less when transmitting full-time via the antenna. The latest iPod, by comparison, runs for about eight hours before its battery must be recharged.
Though Samsung has long been active in the portable digital music player market, the Napster unit's built-in software is lacking. Play lists, for instance, must be generated on the computer. I could find no way to create them on the player.
Also, there was no easy way to play the entire library without first creating a play list on the computer and then transferring it to the player.
As its Napster name suggests, the player supposedly works best with Napster 2.0 music software, which will be available to the public on Oct. 29. I found the prerelease version to be somewhat buggy, especially when transferring songs via the high-speed Universal Serial Bus 2.0 cable.
I tried loading nearly 1,700 songs of varying lengths in the MP3 and Windows Media Audio formats. With USB 2.0, songs transferred very quickly. But when I switched my computer screen to a view that showed transfer status, the program froze after several hundred songs. The problem occurred repeatedly.
The Samsung device also works with Microsoft's Windows Media Player, which is more reliable. (I suspect Napster will have many of the bugs worked out before it is publicly launched.)
Beyond music, the Samsung-Napster player can be used to store regular data files.
In my on-the-road tests, I found it worked well at the gym despite a sticker that warns against exposure to excessive force or moisture.
It also picked up radio stations with no problems.
Its low-power FM transmitter broadcasts in five frequencies, from 88.1 to 89.5. The key is finding one that's not being used by an actual station, whose signals cause static.
Locked away in my garage at night, the Samsung's signal sounded very good, the equivalent of regular FM radio. On the road in the daytime, with competing signals, there were noticeable cracks, pops and other static. The sound quality was about that of AM radio.
A few other oddities cropped up during regular usage, including the occasional odd pause during a song.
Like the iPod, the Napster player can be upgraded via downloads from the company's Web site. Apple addressed similar early iPod complaints and added countless features through its many free firmware upgrades -- so much so it's like getting a new machine for nothing. Hopefully, Samsung will follow the same path.
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~10834~1724705,00.html
OT for bargain hunters:
http://www.buymp3.org
(Not an endorsement, just throwing it out there for your consideration.)
Fujitsu Ten is one of Japan's largest suppliers of audio, electrical, and car navigation equipment within the automotive industry. The company manufactures automotive audio systems and navigation systems under its own brand, "Eclipse", and works with more than ten global original equipment manufacturers as well, among which are Toyota, General Motors, Honda, Isuzu and Daihatsu. Going directly to the source ( http://www.fujitsu-ten.co.jp/english/ecology/e02.pdf ), I fail to see any "separate entity" for Eclipse. So much for false statements.
Old but relevent:
Will Digital Downloads Pay?
Industry players struggle to develop business models that will give free file-swap services a run for their money.
By Eileen Rivera, Tech Live
January 9, 2002
LAS VEGAS -- Plenty of challenges lie ahead for music companies and movie studios in the fully digital post-Napster era. But most industry insiders are optimistic that they can make Net distribution pay off.
"I think certainly there can be a legitimate business model, and we see companies that are coming out now, especially those that are aligned with some of the major content producers and distributors," said David Leibowitz, co-founder and director of Verance, during a panel discussion Tuesday at the 2002 International Consumer Electronics Show.
During a session titled "Digital Download -- Cracking the Code to Profitability," music and movie industry experts discussed how to balance the strong need to protect intellectual property and content with manufacturers' rights to develop and market new technology.
MusicNet and pressplay (both launched by major record labels at the end of 2001) are the first examples of legitimate business models that hope to counter the popularity of free file-swapping services.
"I think the record labels are coming along," said Mark Bale, panel member and manager at e.Digital, a manufacturer of MP3 devices. "And I think that there are now supportable players in the market such as ours that can support timed-out, subscription-based content."
However, MP3 players with technology like e.Digital's secure management are few, and other intellectual property protection methods like CD watermarking are not foolproof.
As a result, the movie industry has hesitated to provide rich digital content on the Web.
"I think the Internet is going to be a tremendous opportunity for motion picture companies to deliver movies to consumers," Fritz Attaway, executive vice president of the Motion Picture Association of America, said during the session.
"I don't think consumers, or at least the vast majority of consumers, are going to want to do it through these file-sharing services like Gnutella. I've seen them; they're hard to use, at least for me. And if you've seen it, half of it is pornography," Attaway said.
Overall, the panelists said they believe digital download business models must be consumer-friendly to succeed and that the ultimate arbiter of what business model will work will be the consumer.
"It can bite the industries in their butt if it's not done in a way that is seamless and transparent to the consumer so that it doesn't create more work for them or more effort," Leibowitz said.
Originally posted January 9, 2002
Those claiming that EDIG isn't on the ball with DRM solutions are sadly misinformed (or deliberately deceitful). We have been involved with DRM for many years now. That we have produced only one product incorporating DRM functionality to date is a reflection of market demand, not technical prowess. The O 1000 platform can readily be upgraded to comply with DRM standards via a simple (at least to the user) firmware upgrade.
"the platform is primarily DivX technology"??? B.S., according to the folks at APS. Let's see what they have to say.... "The dig E player™ was designed and developed for APS by e.Digital Corporation." http://www.digeplayer.com/release3.html
To make the simplistic statement you made regarding platform ownership implies a profound ignorance of the distinction between hardware (platform) and software (operating system and application software). In the Dig e player's case, the platform is uniquely e.Digital's, as is the operating system. The application software incorporates, but is not limited to, Divx's decoding/decompression routines and whatever DRM code they offer.
No proof or evidence??? You must have missed this portion of the Divx PR you cited:
"...the two companies will work together to integrate digital rights management (DRM) technology into the devices to ensure secure playback of high-quality digital video."..."We are very excited to work together with DivXNetworks to design and develop a line of DivX Certified CE devices that provide consumers with the quality and convenience of DVD-quality digital video while offering state-of-the-art digital rights management technology for content providers, said Steve Ferguson, Vice President of Business Development for e.Digital."
The PR also quotes Divx CEO Jordan Greenhall as saying (in reference to e.Digital) "Their experience with digital rights management and secure content applications will provide a real strength in developing the DivX video standard.”
And as for the existence of a "partnership", Greenhall clearly stated his concept of the relationship: “This partnership is a key step in our hardware strategy to integrate DivX technology across a range of next-generation convergence devices.” I believe that the two CEOs calling their corporate relationship a partnership clearly trumps your bogus claim to the contrary.
OT: Philips HD100 review:
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/hardware/storage/0,39007104,39015983p,00.htm
CNET Review
By Farihan Bahrin
(29/9/2003)
Although there's healthy competition in the MP3 arena these days, there's still not a jukebox player within a hundred miles that can lay a finger on the iPod when it comes to stylish exuberance and sheer geek appeal. In terms of design, the current collective have tended to be aesthetically underwhelming. Enter the Philips HDD100: Half futuristic Star Wars design, half retro-industrial styling, this Darth Vader of MP3 players boasts enough features to send even the iPod to an early eBay grave--a 10-hour battery life, high-res display, WMA support and direct digital recording are just some of its impressive repertoire. Sadly, weak volume and a lockup-prone firmware just leave this S$749 (US$430) player shy of getting a formal recommendation.
Design
The designer gurus at Philips have probably been working overtime with this one. Measuring 106.4 x 64.4 x 19.9mm, and weighing a pocket-friendly 167g, the HDD100 is one of the slimmest and lightest hard drive players you'll find, and one of the best-looking, too. Compared with the iPod, the HDD100 is about half a cm longer and a quarter cm thicker. It lacks the iPod's feminine contours, but the sides are elegantly manicured with a striking silver finish to complement the glossy-black magnesium shell, a nice touch that should appeal to audio hounds with retro taste buds.
Dominated by an impressively large 160 x 128-pixel LCD, the elegant, minimalist unit features nothing extraneous: Four navigational buttons decorate the HDD100's fascia along with a single power switch. The side Menu button, located below the volume control, lends easy access to a variety of user and playback related settings, including backlight, track arrangement and equalizer tweaks.
Overall, the button layout is clean and uncluttered, and the compass-like arrangements means there's less danger of a thumb-lock when scrolling through menus. One-handed operation is also fairly simple. Despite its reverse colored background, the HDD100's clear backlit display is visibly coherent in both dim and direct sunlight, a welcome change for users accustomed to the myopia-inducing fonts of tiny flash players.
Features
The HDD100 comes with a charger, USB cable, software, pouch and an on-cord remote. For music transfers, the player uses Philips' proprietary Digital Media Manager software (you can drag-and-drop over non-audio files via Windows Explorer). While the eccentric program gets the job done and lets you edit ID3 tags, it doesn't feature any ripping mechanism for translating CD audio into MP3s and, rather unusually, doesn't let you arrange playlist tracks in the order you want. Checking music in and out of the Digital Rights Management software was also a forgettable and time-wasting chore.
The HDD100 also lacks the iPod's fancy touch-sensitive scroll wheel and cross-menu fluidity--the player's stuttering interface, albeit user-friendly and clear, appears sluggish by comparison. We also experienced random lockups that plagued the device every time we tried to switch songs between playlists. The freezing appears to be firmware-related, however, so a future software update should fix the problem. Apart from that, the embedded 1.8-inch 15GB hard disk performs normally and seldom skips.
On a positive note, PC users will appreciate the HDD100's audio versatility and wealth of track-editing options. The player reads both MP3s (up to 320kbps) and WMAs (up to 192kbps) and its pair of digital and analog recording inputs makes it dead easy to hijack tunes from your buddy's CD deck--the HDD100 records these sources directly into 192kbps MP3 files. Users can also deploy the MiniDisc-style editing features to delete/arrange tracks and create customized playlists while on the move. The in-built voice recorder is nothing special, but useful for quick interview sessions and taking down voice memos.
Performance
Sonically the HDD100 is good, but not great. Its sound is clean and clear, but does tend to get a little bit lean at times. This is easily remedied with Philips' Dynamic Bass Boost, which adds a bit more bite into the low-end. There are numerous other equalizer settings as well, but if you're not a big fan of sound tweaking, we suggest that you stick with the default settings instead.
Perhaps the biggest chink in the HDD100's performance is its weak volume output. The unit's 5mW headphone amplifier pumps out decent decibels on entry level phones but just doesn't have enough power for headsets with higher impedance, such as our reference BeyerDynamic DT 531. If your major consideration is sound quality, frankly there are other players in the market--like the Zen NX and iPod--that'll serve you better.
Unlike Creative's Zen NX, the HDD100's Lithium-ion battery pack is non-removable but this should prove a minor quibble for most; the unit's 10-hour lifespan easily outlasts both the iPod and Zen NX. Recharge time using the supplied AC adapter averaged slightly over 2 hours--unlike flash memory variants, the HDD100 does not allow for direct charging via USB. An impressive file transfer rate of 3.2MB per second (with USB 2.0) also means you can fill the entire 15GB jukebox in just over an hour.
OT to S Florida Ediggers:
I'll be in south Dade county for the next few weeks (yup; time to catch a few rays courtesy of those fine folks at Frequent Power Loss). PM me if you want to hook up for a chat and a beer.
Hmmmm, Pam... I wonder if those were what's been holding up the Eclipse MP3 changer production?
Sorry, latest MM ver is 8.1 (I still use 7.2 'cause later versions seem clunkier and harder to use with my XP3.)
Here ya go, owd...
I previously provided you with the link to all available Musicmatch portable drivers (which didn't include either of the Zen versions nor the MuVo). Here is a comprehensive list from Musicmatch of all portable players (among other things) that their newest release 8.2 can support: http://www.musicmatch.com/info/company/partners/list.htm
Unless you can prove otherwise via contrary documented info, I consider the subject closed.
iRiver, Dell Odyssey pix: