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Trade for Trade.
The following is part of post 52597 on the CWRN IHUB messageboard. I agree with this poster views, and hate to see TIVU investors now selling based on Silver*** urging to drive the TIVU price down. It very well could be he has an agenda we are not aware of. Also, I doubt the negative attitudes we are seeing on this board are doing us much good. It would seem we should be more positive since TIVU is so close to paydirt.
"Note that there has been no real raid since the trade for trade was implemented- for it eliminated some of the unsavory and illegal practices creating market volatility at the regular expense of longs.
Remember the trade for trade caused a great deal of consternation when it was 1st implemented(thats what penny players do best -obsess on the worst case scenario).
But when trade for trade was implemented we discovered it was actually beneficial to longs. It stopped the illegal naked shorting etc.
Etmm had been playing this stock like a yoyo for many months -neither I nor other people much mote experienced in trading than I had seen anything like it for its duration.
Etmm had been artificially depressing pps for many months in coordination with raids and posters who would suddenly appear again as part of that raid coordination.
Etmm would regularly raise pps to even an RSI of 100 repeatedly- at which point the stock apparently would be shorted anew and then purposefully crash the stock ,purposefully triggering the stop loss orders that had just been raised as a result of the RSI 100 rise.
But trade for trade stopped that."
Good Luck to all Longs.
I believe you are right on target! Thanks for the reply.
Perhaps I am asking the question improperly, so please allow me to rephrase and all free to comment.
You may recall a couple of weeks ago someone posted that if Bob did a buyback he would conduct it at the Bid and the stock price wouldn't increase much. I would agree that buying at the Bid could result in a much smaller increase in stock price. However, another poster responded and said all buybacks have to be at the Ask. (I don't know if that particular statement is correct). So what I was searching for is a way to identify someone buying at the Bid.
There appears to have been an increase in Bid sitting (a.k.a. Bid support) the last 3 or so days. Perhaps there is no way to track buys at the Ask versus buys at the Bid at the end of the day other than to just keep an eye on the Bid sitting numbers.
Yes, the first 5 trades were sells and are showing in red. What I was wondering about those 5 sells is if there is some way a normal sell could be distinguished from a buy at the bid (as you state is also a sell). Shelly sent me the following but it doesn't address the question of how "buys at the bid price" can be split out.
* Red/Green volume : Explained in detail *
(Below is an attempt at putting this myth to rest and for some to learn something at the same time)
Sell/Buy volume going by bar colors is a myth and mistake, the green/red color code actually corresponds to the last tick that candle had @ that time frame, the volume bar then closes @ the same color.
The volume bars always close the color of their respective candles at their respective time frames.
For example : If SPY on 1min the candle closes green, the vol bar will also show green, does that mean the entire 1min was buying ?
Of course not, it was just the LAST TICK that was @ the offer/ask and hence the color became green during that time frame/interval.
For example : if SPY on 2min the candle closes red, the vol bar will also show red, does that mean the entire 2mins was selling ?
Of course not, it was just the LAST TICK that was @ the bid and hence the color became red during that time frame/interval.
This works for all timeframes, 1min, 5min, 60min etc...I think that everyone should know this and forget the whole "look at the buy/sell volume" when instead, its an erroenous read (lots of Pinksheet video guys misinterpret that color and therefore lie and mislead newbies)
Hope this helps.
This is post 2165 on IH/ADVFN Streamer & Level II Q & A Messageboard
On level 2 I believe both a sale and a buy at the bid show in red. How can I tell one from the other if both show in red? TIA
So far today all 879,655 shares traded are showing in red on level 2, but the stock is up 2.5%. Some or all of today's action may be someone buying at the bid. Is there a way to tell if trades showing in red are sells or are buys at the bid? TIA
As information, earlier posts on trade-for-trade back in March were posts 32086 and 32494 (latter is Bob's response).
See post 25762. You might want to refrain from posting until you do some honest DD and come up with some "solid proof".
If Stanleyhouse is so knowledgable he would be able to fully explain what this action means instead of posting negative comments and wild accusations. His agenda is clear.
LOL Obviously you are unable to backup your unfounded comments. We understand.
What shell?
How about presenting some facts to back up your wild accusations? Your agenda is very suspect.
You must be smoking some powerful stuff. Suggest you do your DD at the very informative posts above tho CWRN IHUB messageboard. That information is right on. That stock will be much higher in months to come.
Can anyone refer me to the post last spring where Bob Cotton gave a brief comment about being placed on the trade-for-trade basis? TIA
Brian, I think you are right. Just got back from a mile walk where I was thinking about the trade-for-trade and have to say in CWRN's case it cut down considerably on flippers and bear runs. I believe also that CWRN even requested the trade-for-trade to better control the stock. Anyone having the upgraded IHUB program might research CWRN. They went trade-for-trade last spring I believe.
I'm not an expert in the trade-for-trade area but believe CWRN was put on the list and it just cut down volatility. Some had previosuly surmised it would cut down shorting but I can't say whether it did or not. Perhaps TIVU asked to be put on this list because they were going to hit the 300m A/S limit. Believe TIVU needs to respond publically to this matter.
Thanks. Zecco simply doesn't have its act together. Don't know what Bill is talking about when he said "its possible in the future for CWRN to be placed on the Non-DTC-Eligible List" when their website has and continues to show they are already on it. Kindly let me know if they ever hit you with additional charges. Actually I don't know how they can assess additional charges retroactively that are unknown at the time of the trade. Maybe they feel they are on shakey ground and are just trying to verbally run off as much of the Non-DTC-Eligible stocks as possible. Thanks again.
Hey Microcaps - wanted to mention I greatly appreciate your posts but you appear a mite paranoid today. My last two posts were simply responding to questions/comments made by previous posters. With a little luck the Penson action will not spread and CWRN will get itself out of Pinkyland soon so this problem will not even exist. One last post on this matter is found below.
Zecco Trading Customer ServiceWednesday August 31 | 9:04am.
Dear Don,
Thank you for contacting Zecco Trading.
We spoke over the phone. For non-DTC eligible securities we no longer allow customers to purchase them online on a best efforts basis. Your CWRN is currently non-DTC eligible and we do not offer to allow customers to purchase it at this time.
The disclosure displayed to customers online:
Potential Buy-In Following Sales Triggering the NSCC Illiquid Requirement
The National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) is a subsidiary of DTC which provides clearing,
settlement, risk management, central counterparty services and a guarantee of completion for certain
transactions for virtually all broker-to-broker trades involving equities, corporate and municipal debt,
exchange-traded funds, and other securities. The NSCC Illiquid Requirement is applied to Penson when
one customer (or more than one customer in the aggregate, across the totality of customers of Penson’s
correspondents ) whose account is carried by Penson sell more than 25% of the average daily trading
volume of a security over the last rolling 20 business days. The amount of this requirement depends on
the percentage of the ADV (Average Daily Value) represented by the open sales. The requirement has
very little relation to the value of the trade, and is generally at least ten times the trade value and may
be as high as one hundred times the trade value, or even more. This requirement is incurred even if the
customer owns the shares and even when Penson has these shares long in its DTC account.
If Penson’s customer(s) create a NSCC Illiquid Charge greater than $50,000, the offending trade or
trades will be bought in on T+1, without notice to the customer.
If a customer creates a second NSCC Illiquid Charge greater than $50,000 in a ninety day period, in
addition to the buy-in, the customer account may be subject to closure for ninety days.
I hope that this information has been helpful. Please feel free to reply to this message if you have additional concerns.
Sincerely,
Bill Leslie
Financial Services Representative
877-700-STOCK (7862), 8am - 7pm (ET) Mon-Fri
Zecco Trading, Inc.
P.O. Box 10010
Glendale, CA, 91209 USA
Fax: 818-230-6400
For anyone having an interest in the Zecco/Penson matter I spoke this morning to a Zecco Customer Service Rep by the name of Bill who confirmed to me that Zecco will no longer sell any stock on the Non-DTC-Eligible List. He said this was purely a business decision based on the best interest of their customers due to the high cost/charges that will now be associated with these securities. Bill was unable to quickly tell me what charge Penson would assess if I wanted to sell my 2m shares, but said it would range from $200.00 to $700.00 per trade.
In regard to the "buy in" question, he said if the 25% ADV was exceeded, the next day Zecco would simply undo that trade by buying back all (not just part) of the involved stock and put it back in your account. For example if 10m shares were purchased on Tuesday and the 25% exceeded, on Wednesday they would buy-back the entire 10M and bill you. Also, if the purchase was at .01 and the buy-back was at .02 your account would be charged the .02. Quite a penalty.
He is sending further information about these matters.
As info, the message below was received on 8-19. About a week later I called Zecco (talked to Von I believe) to determine what additional charges would apply if I bought or sold CWRN and he told me a further change had been made and they were no longer permitting any buy orders for CWRN stock since they are on the Non-DTC-Eligible List. To date I've not received anything in writing so I think I will check into this matter further with them tomorrow.
Policy Changes Impacting “Penny Stock” Trading
Dear Don,
Penson Financial Services, Zecco Trading’s clearing firm, has recently implemented two new policies which impact Zecco customers who trade low priced equities (stocks priced under $1.00 per share, commonly called “Penny Stocks”). These policy changes were necessary due to the significant risks, costs and increasingly burdensome regulatory requirements related to trading these equities.
Briefly, these policies relate to:
•Settlement fees for non-DTC-eligible equities
•Potential “buy-in” of low priced equity transactions based on NSCC requirements
These new policies impact the customers of all brokers clearing through Penson Financial, including Zecco Trading. Included below is a brief outline of these policies. Please read our Low Priced Equities Disclosures to thoroughly familiarize yourself with all the aspects and implications of the policies.
Settlement Fees for Non-DTC-Eligible Equities
The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTC) provides electronic clearing and settlement for equities, bonds and other securities. The vast majority of equities traded by Zecco Trading customers are DTC-eligible. However, certain low priced equities are not DTC-eligible or have had their eligibility revoked. The DTC eligibility of any given equity can change over time.
Settlement of non-DTC-eligible requires physical processing, which can result in significant execution, deposit, transfer agent and other fees. The fees generated by the settlement of these physical positions are passed through by our clearing firm, Penson Financial, directly to our customers - neither Zecco Trading nor Penson mark up these fees.
Customers who trade non-DTC-eligible securities are responsible for these fees, which can be as high as $700.00 per trade. Orders that require executions with multiple contra-parties will result in settlement fees for each separate transaction. These charges may not be immediately charged to your account following a trade, as Penson may receive notice of such fees as much as three weeks later. Zecco Trading reserves the right to withhold funds in a customer’s account pending potential assessment of fees.
It is your responsibility to investigate the eligibility status of a low-priced equity before trading it. You may consult the Known Non-DTC Eligible List in our Disclosures Page or contact the specific company whose equity in which you intend to trade to confirm eligibility. Please note that there is no guarantee that the Known Non-DTC Eligible List will contain a complete and updated list of non-DTC-eligible stocks.
Potential Buy-In of Low Priced
Equity Transactions Based on NSCC Requirements
The National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) provides a guarantee of completion for certain transactions for broker-to-broker trades. The NSCC imposes additional deposit requirements on Penson based on the sell volume of low priced equities, in order to limit settlement risk.
When a customer sells more than 25% of the average daily trading volume (ADV) of a single equity in a three-day settlement period, that security may be “bought-in” by Penson up to three business days later without notice. A group of unrelated customers collectively trading more than 25% of a security’s ADV across all brokerages clearing through Penson can also trigger this policy. The ADV is calculated over the last rolling 20 business days.
Although this occurrence is rare, customers selling low priced equities must be aware of the risk a buy-in would occur without notice.
Low Price Equity FAQs
We apologize for any inconvenience due to these industry-related changes. If you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at 877-700-STOCK (7862) and a representative will be happy to assist you.
Sincerely,
Thomas Boykin
Manager, Trading and Risk Operations
Zecco Trading, Inc.
I use Zecco and am in the process of transferring my account. In talking with Zecco they said to make sure that whoever I transferred to will continue to offer Non-DTC-Eligible stocks. They seemed to be of the opinion Penson's action would spread. The article that I posted earlier indicated likewise. All I know is that's it's a pain in the bu## transferring accounts.
Please ignore my previous post. Got my stocks crossed.
I am with Zecco and that is not my understanding. CWRN is in fact on the Non-DTC- Eligible List (see Zecco website for list)and one of their Customer Service Representative told me last week they have now stopped taking buy orders for CWRN. He seemed of the opinion others would follow Penson's lead. I was looking at transferring to either E Trade, Fidelity or Just2Trade but I understand E Trade will not transfer anything under a penny.
CWRN is on the Non-DTC-Eligible list. Since CWRN is not a reporting company there may soon be problems buying their stock anywhere.
http://www.hotstockchat.com/micro-cap-stock-crisis-and-what-you-can-to-avoid-it/
Does anyone know if there has been any insider buying recently?
PR above says 1057879
Tivus has a "a ridiculously low o/s".
http://stockreads.com/Stock-Newsletter.aspx?id=49253
Tivus put out a PR through Scottrade at 10:58 PM last evening stating that the CC had been held and providing the phone number to listen to the playback.
I thought the news and updates provided at the CC was very good. If I heard correctly Shiva said they now have all the financial backing they need. Also in about 4 months we will have installed IPTV in 5000 rooms. Good things are beginning to come fast now.
BOM = Book Of Mormon
While their BOM will provide plenty of laughs to anyone willing to investigate and test its contents, the fact is Mormonism at all hierarchial levels (particularily the highest)can be encapsulated in one word: MONEY! Twenty years ago the Mormons controlled the 3rd largest business empire West of the Mississippi River and who knows where they rank today. No doubt their lengthy TV campaign to give some kind of credibility to Mormonism, boost Mitt Romney and bring in new converts with new money will be successful. Nice to have some real money makers on Tivus' side.
Would prefer that SP just respond to questions in writing via the Tivus website. Have listened to both of the previous cc's and am simply unable to understand him. His English is mediocre to say the least. He may do an acceptable sales job on a one-to-one basis, but on a larger stage his communication skills are not so good and don't do the company and its stockholders justice.
Luckymata
94K for me.
As info Level 2 shows so far today there have been 500 shares sold and 351,500 shares purchased. People continue to buy in at good prices.
Silva is always hard to understand which makes him a less than ideal salesman for Tivus. Certainly he is due much respect for what Tivus has accomplished, but it would be best if he had a high ranking officer handled interviews and public relations.
Some are just honest investors who had a degree of confidence in managements ability to develop the company while protecting the stock price. No doubt some didn't sell their stock and then root for the price to go down.
How low will this pig sink? Would guess to about .008 based on the perceived incompetence of TIVU management. Really hate to see financials come out. Tivus should boost the O/S to over 100M since that has such a wonderful affect on the stock price and makes investors happy.
On the Home Page down at the bottom Stock Market 101 gives info that might help
It appears the hotels put up money for the TV's, but Tivus stands the installation costs?
Would be nice to see an additional mine source, but would also be nice to see a guaranteed annual purchase contract with Chinese (or anyone) for minimum of 1 million tons and $180,000,000.00.