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Az did not say that! you are comparing apple with oranges.
Bkshadow , for someone to understand this has to go back to school.
Not everyone can digest this one.IMO
That s a good one!!!:))
Great post LuckyPanda!
LG, I think AZCowboy explained his point of view about 75%/25%. It's up to him if he wants to go or not in detail. Although my portfolio is 80% preferred (P and K).
I do not think formula 75/25 will apply to assets in SH. I belive AZ is right.
I would be glad but I do not see how the judge would let preferred get 75% out of tens of billion.
IMO
Is it possible that these assets are own by pre BK holders?! (as long as they did not sell by the effective date). I remember BR when he was trying to do that amd judge told him "a share is a share".IMO
EscrowDollars, LG talks about FACTS,if you understand what that means.
iPrelude,100% agree with you!
Great News AZ!!! Thank you for sharing !!!
It is very accurate what you wrote. Although, my portfolio is a majority P, K. I have reached the same conclusion few years ago.Az was first that open my eyes,I did my own reaserch but was too late .Old Common shares, own the Estate. Part "B" is where WMI assets are. P should reach aprox 2000 per share (interest + penalty) after 10 years. The rest will go to old common. I have very little common shares compared to P and K. I got P very cheap ($39 average), I ll do ok.
75% and 25% apply to what we will get from FDIC/WMB if anything will come , when the show is over. If hedge funds could not still the WMI ESTATE, why the judge will allow P do get it?!It is to much money , old common shares must own the Estate. IMO
Thank you
Az, you are doing a great job!!! You don t have to give any explanation to anyone. I don t post much, I read and follow few posters, and you are one of my favorite poster.I know what I own, and your updated for class17 is very important for this end of wamu journey. My pessimistic number that will come back to us is 65 billion. I did my own DD for 10 years, I know what I own!
None of us supposed to be here, I know what Im saying..Good luck to everyone . IMO
Thank you again
You will never receive a check for the simple fact that some are ira or 401k accounts. Money will be transferred to your account, is that simple. If you have 401k or IRA account and you want to withdraw money you will pay taxes or penalties as the case may be. They will never send a check to a person that have 401k/IRA account. IMO
and...WMIH will get around 2,5 Billion cash from this if your numbers are correct. We are all waiting together. Know what you own.. IMOA
That s great news Az!! Thank you for posting it. We should see more movements soon.
Many posts made by intelligent people, but you AZ are one of the few who can see beyond the curtain. I'm here like many others from 2008, I own more preferred shares than common shares,some dime and that s all I have. Few years ago, I realized that it is unlikely that preferred will get the big chunk of Wamu Estate based on 75/25 split. I hope I m wrong, but my intuition tells me that you are right here AZ. I won t argue with docs ,cause what we have here is what they want us to see it. Hedge funds try to steal it and got caught,they did 'nt succeed, is just common sense that tells me , judge will not allow this to happen. They have to do it right, and I will not be surprised if those who have not released will have another chance to do it, so as long as they have held the shares and did not sell them before they were canceled.
To much money on the table,(65 billion to 85 billion return) and becouse that, common sahres must own the masive Wamu Estate.
I enjoy reading your input, and thank you for posting.
IMHO
Thank you
bkshadow, you're entitled to your opinion but as far as i know you have no facts/links to support it. Zero credibility.
i agree 100%
BINGO!!
jhdf51, That was a good one!!:))
Hotmeat I respect your contribution in all these years.
We all have an opinion, and it's okay.
I belive AZ is right , even to the fact that preferred are capped .I do own more prefered than common shares and I would prefer AZ not to be right here. IMO
Best regards
Well said Theoaktree2017
Az is right !
Two big ones!! :)) Good job Royal !
AZ is brilliant!! He was one of the few who kept this board alive, and in my opinion one of the few who show us the light in this complicated bankruptcy process. The fact that he posted his DD here, many of the old wamu friends appreciate this fact.
We all have an opinion and is ok .
That's what Az says for a long time.We like it or not , I think Az is right. These trusts and participation in them can not be changed by ROP 7
well said Tacoma !
Happy New Year everybody! I wish you all God’s blessing, an abundant and prosperous 2018!!
I belive you are correct hotmeat. I see no other reason for him to be brought back to court.
I think you misunderstood Ron's post.
If CIC is not completed with FINAL PAYMENT then 5th amendment taking could be back into the game.
WMI was the top- tier savings and loan holding company and two banking subsidiaries, WMB and Washington Mutual Bank, fsb (WMBfsb), as well as nonbank subsidiaries were well capitalized before seizure took place.
If you look at 900 BB you have to subtract liabilities also.
As FDIC said JPM paid only 1.9 billion a premium for WMB.Assets minus liability as 2008 (298.7 billion-258.5 biliion) is what JPM reported when they took over. Just for the banks(wmb and wmbfsb) is around 40 billion.
It s not included WMI (holding company assets) and portofoliu loans (615BB).
FINAL PAYMENT will be made by JPM (i belive is completed) and 5th amendment taking will never be in the game.
Safe harbor assets / interests acquired from WMI Portofoliu loans (615 BB) is not and was never part of WMB transaction.
These loans have generated a profit of 6BB-9BB income per year before 2008 , for the REAL OWNERS of WMI HOLDING Co .
There are so many BB that will come from different angles. IMO
Ron is a brilliant person!
ALL IMHO
i ' m still digesting this beautiful presentation! Many thanks for sharing your hard work with us AZCowboy!!
Happy Holidays.. Wishing you and your family a joyous holiday and prosperous new year.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
God bless us !
Outstanding answer hotmeat!!
Merry Christmas to everybody !
Great Post ron_66271 !!
They lost everything!!! Remember POR 6?! Little guy like you and me got it all in POR 7.
Welcome back AZCowboy!
I love reading your posts on this board!! It s all about facts!! Thank you again
Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones!
None of us know exactly the time frame for pay day.
But , LG was right every single time.Money did not disappear!
JPM will pay book value for WMB as September 2008 ++ WMI assets,including retain interests from loan portofolios .
Nothing has changed! IMHO
You are correct sir.
You need to do some more DD, just start with R -203 JPM Off-balance sheet. Let me know how far you can get.IMHO.
As far as "value" of WMB , don t look into JPM "facts" .That value will be in Purchase and Assumption Agreement by and among the Assuming Bank includes, but is not limited to. the entities listed on Schedule 3.1a.
When the final P&AA will be available ,then we can talk about what JPM paid for WMB bank.
It s ok to have your opinion, please keep it. Money didn't disappear.
Unfortunately your DD present no facts about WMI bankruptcy, or WMB assets vs liabilities and WMI loan portofoliu .
Here are some HARD FACTS ;
Numbers don't lie people do !!
As FDIC said JPM paid only 1.9 billion a premium for WMB.Assets minus liability as 2008 (298.7 billion-258.5 biliion) is what JPM reported when they took over. Just for the bank is around 40 billion.
It s not included WMI (holding company assets) and portofoliu loans.
JPM did NOT get over 615BB in portofoliu loans and the income generated from interest from those loans.Portofoliu loans (615 BB) is not and was never part of WMB transaction.
Those loans generate (6BB-9BB) income per year before 2008 , for the REAL OWNERS of WMI HOLDING Co.That s escrow markers!
With foreclosure that follow financial crisis in 2008, I assume the income generated from 615BB portofoliu loans could be much smaller
Investigator Bill Paatalo: Why JPMorgan Chase did not purchase $615 Billion of WaMu Loans
https://livinglies.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/investigator-bill-paatalo-why-jpmorgan-chase-did-not-purchase-615-billion-of-wamu-loans/amp/
yes! Thank you for posting!
That was for WMB, not including WMI loan mortgage portofoliu.
From FDIC and JPM statement
FDIC RESPONSE TO SENATOR MIKE HEWITT OCTOBER 16 2008
JPM PAID A PREMIUM OF 1.88B
PURCHASED ASSETS WITH BOOK VALUE 298.7 BILLION
ADDITIONALLY, ACQUIRED LIABILITIES TOTALING 258.5 BILLION
"THE ACTUAL MARKET VALUE OF THOSE ASSETS YET TO BE DETERMINED"
WHY?
HOWEVER,ACCORDING TO MEDIA REPORTS ISSUED BY JPM,THEY IMMEDIATELY WROTE DOWN THE BOOK VALUE OF THE ASSETS BY $30 BILLION.
I have the letter, but i have no option to post it.
Money didn't disappear.