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It is baffling why they would have taken people's certs and opened "accounts" for them on the "PDR Exchange" before they had worked out any way of getting their money to them when the PDRs were "sold".
Perhaps because a Panamanian Foundation is a place designed to put assets and let them grow, not to put them in and immediately try to pull them out.
You have to admit that given the past history of the CEO telling investors things that never came true that this whole sordid affair of people not being able to get the money that is owed to them makes this look like a scam.
Actually, things have come true, just not as quickly as planned.
Can you imagine selling your stock through a US broker and then being told that you would get your money just as soon as they can figure out a way of getting it to you?
A Panamanian Foundation is not a stock broker. Not even close. There is no comparison. You are dealing with a completely different type of organization that operates under much different laws than you have dealt with when working with your stock brokers.
There wouldn't be much problem if people would have waited to understand what they were getting into before letting the thoughts of quick profits cloud their judgment.
“The plans of the diligent lead surely to plenty, but those of everyone who is hasty, surely to poverty.” Proverbs 21:5
I do not have any answers other than what has already been communicated by the company. No one here does. If you want those answers, then talk to the company and then you can post the answers you get here.
I haven't sent in any certificates either. I did send in my forms to get my land divy though.
I wonder if when Ford or Daimler Chrysler comes out and says..." We've decided our next generation of vehicles will focus on a sportier style with more horsepower. Our design team now has it on the drawing board" if their investors start whining to them with questions like:
How big will the engine be, how many horsepower EXACTLY, how many cylinders, how long will the body be, how wide, will it have 4 wheel drive, what colors can I get it in, when will my Auto dealership in Poukipsie have it, what kind of tires is it going to have, how fast will it go, what's the gas mileage, can I get it insured for the same price as my Volkswagon, when's the next pr, how long does it take finalize all the details and start production...
and then starts bitching that it's taken over a month and it's not finished yet.
No, they won't ask the company those questions, they will just log onto a chat board and ask all of the other people that are wondering the same thing.
Some more detailed information about Panama Foundations:
http://www.shirleylaw.com/en/resources/Panama_Foundation.htm
Exactly!
One of the best pieces of investing advice that I have seen is:
Never invest in something until you fully understand how it operates.
It seems that more than a few have ignored that sage advice and jumped into investing in a Panamanian Foundation without fully understanding what they were getting into. This is one reason why I have not yet converted to PDRs. I want to really understand all of the implications of it before I trade in my certs. Even if I don't convert to PDRs, I already have land divy PDRs.
I do have faith in this company and I am invested for the long term. Although I have flipped a few shares here and there along the way too, I have always kept some shares back for the long term. This has allowed me to use the profits from flipping to acquire more long term shares.
I don't want a debit card that I can only use for emergencies
The information on the website did not state that it could only be used for emergencies. Let's not misrepresent the facts.
Perhaps if we changed the format a little to make it easier for some people to understand:
In the event a beneficiary needs to access funds for expenses such as:
* emergency cash loans
* home loans
* refunds of collateral
* reimbursement of expenses
* prepayment of expenses
The foundation will activate the plastic receipt and issue the beneficiary a pin number. Benefits will then be obtained through any participating ATM or merchant in the world.
I did not say that the blog answered all of the questions. I just refuted the statement that there had been "no communication with the shareholders". There has been communication. Certainly we would all like more details and I hope that we get some of those this week.
I have personally made other financial commitments expecting to receive my money.
It is never a good idea to make commitments with funds that you don't have in hand yet.
No communication with the shareholders
I guess you missed the blog entry by MT on Friday...
and the update to the Fundacion page on the website too...
Can someone show us the L2 for PNMS today?
Wow! That is a ton of reading to digest. Thank you! This is very good information and explains a lot.
friends.... using the ignore feature will make the dinosaur extinct...
I have already added Super Barney to the iggy list.
The PDF of the actual Senate record on Naked Short Selling:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2007_record&position=all&page=S96...
Excellent post, Wally.
the company said they would wire funds, no?
I refuse to keep going in circles with you. That is elementary school behavior and I will not participate. You have been given answers and you have been given contact information where you can get more details from people that are actually involved in the decision making. The discussion board members are not the source you should be hounding for the answers you seek. You keep telling people to call the IRS for answers. So, take your own advice and CALL FOR YOURSELF!
When you are ready to have a more rational adult discussion, I will be glad to do so.
I have read people brainstorming ways to avoid taxes, but I have not seen anyone suggesting ways to evade taxes. There is a big difference. Avoiding taxes is legal, evading them is not. In any case, people were just throwing out ideas and trying to think outside the box to come up with new ideas. Later they can go back and investigate some of those ideas and figure out which ones are good and which ones are bad. Right now, we don't have enough information to make a decision about what exact course of action to take anyway.
There is no corporate scheme that has been presented. Only ideas from individuals. Those ideas do not make up a scheme because they are simply ideas that may or may not be acted upon based on further review. A scheme would involve a finalized plan that has already been made with the intention to do something unethical or illegal.
Pedro wanted everyone to know that he lives very modestly, despite of what has been said about him. He believes that people should only spend money on what is necessary.
This is an example of the different way of thinking that the wealthy have compared to the average American who works paycheck to paycheck. It is much easier to appear wealthy than to actually become wealthy. It takes much discipline and you have to work against the marketing machine that opposes you every day.
I recommend people read The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley and William Danko.
If you do not think that this is a complicated issue, then you really have not grasped the whole idea of the Foundation and its goals. Anything involving multiple governments, businesses, and individuals is going to be a complicated issue, especially when it involves large financial transactions.
The reasons for not wiring money are clearly spelled out at http://www.panamersa.com/fundacion. Please stop asking the same questions over and over while ignoring the answers that have been given to you on the board repeatedly. Even if you don't read the replies, the answers are easily found on the Panamersa website. If that isn't enough for you, then email addresses and phone numbers for the company are also readily available. You are intentionally being obtuse about the whole subject.
assets being what? unsold PDR's if thats the case then I think you make a good point, if its cash you do not make a point
Even if it were cash assets it wouldn't matter. They do the same thing at banks here for people with bad credit. Deposit $500 into a savings account and then they will give you a credit card or loan that is secured by the cash deposit.
Very true. Those that build wealth think differently than those that remain poor or try to get rich quick. Those that do get rich quick typically lose it just as quickly and many times end up worse off than before the windfall.
Nice accumulation! Congrats!
You do not have to be filthy to become filthy rich.
my understanding was that for you to load money onto your card you would have to sell some of your PDR's and turn them into cash. Is that incorrect?
If you wanted to get "refunds of collateral"...one of the many ways to get funds loaded on the card.
This has not been PR'ed yet. It has simply been posted on the corporate website. The PRs are forthcoming.
If you really have questions and want to understand what was going on, you should contact the company directly. I have spoken with Theresa over the phone a couple of times and have corresponded in emails with Pedro. If you don't understand what has been explained on this board multiple times, then go out and get some answers for yourself. I have found the people in this company to be very friendly and helpful. They have explained any questions that I had for them to my satisfaction. The contact info is in the IBOX. The people on this board are not here to be babysitters. If you need handholding for your investments, then you should stick to mutual funds and stay far away from the pinks.
It doesn't state that there has to be an emergency to access your funds. The word emergency was only added to one of the options. There were many more options than that one.
I think it is almost a given that if it is done just for show, investors will see through it and the price will continue to fall after the reverse split.
I don't know what was going through their minds when they called for the reverse split of SWNE/MCII. You might want to read the DEF 14C filing to see what reasons were stated.
I am hoping that this price recovers after the lottery players are done dumping shares. I think once they stop and some real news is released we will see this one start on the road to recovery.
There can be many reasons for a reverse split.
1. Institutional investors typically have covenants for their investment funds that prevent them from investing in stocks below $3 to $5.
2. The company may want to get listed on an exchange and they want to raise the PPS to meet the requirements.
3. The company may want to prevent from getting delisted from an exchange.
4. Many investors shy away from stocks that are not in the $5 to $50 range.
5. During restructuring, like a spin-off, a reverse split may be used to bring the PPS near the median price of similar companies.
6. The company may want to reduce the number of shareholders.
7. Stocks below $5 are typically non-marginable for individual investors.
8. Some companies do it simply to make the PPS look better.
Typically a reverse split is viewed negatively. Approximately 75% of stocks that have a reverse split trade lower after the reverse split. This is especially true if the only reason for the split was #8. The PPS was low for a reason, and if the only thing that is done to raise it is a reverse split, the company will be punished by investors with a sharp decline in PPS after the split.
I have an idea! Panamersa or the Foundation contracts DS to write the next PR!
Limited information from Official Military Personnel Files is releasable to the general public without the consent of the veteran or the next-of-kin. You are considered a member of the general public if you are asking about a veteran who is no relation to you, or a veteran who is a relative but you are not the next-of-kin. Next-of-kin is defined as the unremarried widow or widower, son or daughter, father or mother, brother or sister of the deceased veteran.
http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/public/general-public.html
what creates liquidity in PDR exchange?
The same thing that creates liquidity on the other exchanges: supply and demand.
When more individuals and institutions get accounts funded in the exchange and have the desire for the PDRs the demand will rise. Currently there seems to be more supply than demand.
I called a "friend" you can go through normal channels
You mean we could go through the LEGAL channels? If you just called a friend to obtain that information, then what you and your "friend" did is definitely unethical and most likely illegal.
If it takes 3 weeks, then how did Stockasaurus Rex supposedly get the info back in about a day?
Due to the Freedom of Information Act, there are certain pieces of information from the DD214 available to the general public.
I think that a DD214 can only be requested by the servicemember or, if they are deceased, their next of kin.
I have never had a clerk ask for ID with a debit card, only with a credit card.
Unlike your normal bank debit card, these cards are not linked to an account, but simply are pre-loaded with an amount. Similar to cards used at game places like Dave & Busters.