is retired now but still kicking like a horse!
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Day 1 Trade. Vesselin,
In that you are correct. This is also true for the case I mentioned. But starting the portfolio going is not a Trade Call initiated by the system. This is why I mentioned that no trades were done in the first 13 days.
Conrad
Myst, On the number Zero, and more:
Correct on your remark! I also do not know the exact time when the number zero was first defined. But the same is true for all numbers: At some time in history no numbers at all were defined (discounting the possibility that if God exists that he or she might have thought of numbers in the sense that we do now).
The interesting thing is that numbers have no objective existence at all, and all the number constructions that have been defined since the beginning of time are mere concepts. On this front we can think of a lot of examples of constructions that were impossible before but became possible after someone defined a solution for it.
Many years ago the number 1 did not have any roots. Today it has as may even distinct roots as you care to name! Say 2, or 3458. That is the wonderful thing abut mathematics!
In regards to a Trading System that will never lose money or will beat the market at all times we run into a dilemma of definition and practicality. With any and all trading systems a loss is created the moment you buy stock or its derivatives. A this point the market has already a head start. In order to measure performance you need to define a time frame. As long as this time frame is set arbitrarily it may happen that a perfect self-adjusting trading system will trail the market in value, but this does not mean that the perfect trading system is impossible. It simply means that some perfect things cannot do the impossible!
Obviously, I point out here that I consider a perfect self-adjusting trading system as a possibility in the limit, but this does not guarantee that it will always be profitable to use such a system on real stock.
Conrad
Hi Vesselin,
You wrote in referring to a Self Adjusting Trading System:
That is just as impossible as perpetuum mobile.
I like to point out that you are stepping on dangerous ground and could be digging your own grave. You have a high degree of Believe me I know it all in you messages. Many Preachers have been shown to be wrong when they urged the flock to believe him.
In regards to perpetuum mobile facts already proved that they exist. The phenomenon of superconductivity is said to be the result of a unique electron paring so that these doublets move without creating any friction in the crystal structure of the conductor in which they move.
Interesting in this is that according to conventional thinking we expect these electron doublets to be bigger but the fact appears to be that two electrons as pairs may occupy less space, or even zero space! This latter is one plausible explanation of the fact that they can move without any friction. Quantum mechanics is said to give an explanation for this doublet formation. The classical picture of electrons as little balls is of course long outdated. The question as to what electrons are made of is still out. The phenomenon of superconductivity has shed new light on this: If two electrons can pair-up to form a new particle of zero volume then electrons are not as simple as we thought they were before. Ergo, experience demonstrates that perpetuum mobiles do exist.
In the same way a lot of people assert that in mathematics the number 0/0 does not exist, while in fact with a little extra mathematical skills it is possible to demonstrate that 0/0=3 or that 0/0= 3,45 can in fact be a correct solution to a mathematical expression.
Beware what you call impossible!
Conrad
Hello Vesselin,
Your assertion that to construct a self adjusting(auto-optimisation) Automatic Trading System(ATS) is impossible needs challenging. Let’s first of all make it clear that we agree that it is fun trying to get to that goal. On this basis I would assert that as long as one tries to achieve something he will believe that it is possible. So I am puzzled at your fun in trying something when you believe that your effort will not be rewarded.
We have available a vast amount of know-how of making control systems self-adjusting and self-optimising. With a large number of sensors it is possible to make pattern recognition a piece of cake. With this I mean we can analyse the behaviour of stock prices to death. Including the integration of factors such as fundamental analysis, external economics it is even possible to introduce to some extend predictive qualities en make it possible to anticipate the stock price movements for some time in the future. This much is known. All people act in this fashion already!(in buying a house all sorts of factors about future interest rates, etc., are already considered). The more such a system incorporates accurate information, and models the dynamics of the processes correctly, it is possible to construct an Automatic(Self-Opimising) Trading System. That this is not a simple task for an average AIM Investor is not disputed.
What then does it mean to say that it is impossible to do?
Presumably it means that certain future events cannot be predicted and that after such events the ATS will make improper decisions. Case in point is the attack on the WTC on September 11th, 2001. The resulting Dip could not be interpreted correctly. Agreed, but then nobody can make sense out of such an Event and such situations are up for grabs for anyone that dares to act on it. The ATS will recover from such events just like people do that. Today we are not acting as if tomorrow the market will dive in the same fashion. Neither will an ATS act on that assumption.
My assertion is therefore that an ATS can be developed that takes into account the current market information and self-adjusts to changes that occur. The fact that the systems we already have do this to some degree is evidence that it is possible. That there is always room for improvement does not negate the fact that we are able to make trading systems self adjusting.
To make the assertion that it is not possible to build self- adjusting trading systems believable one would need to prove that what we are now already doing is not possible either.
Vesselin, maybe you meant to say something entirely different than what you actually said?
Conrad
Thanks Rien,
I am a little puzzled at this. The X-DEV is compared to AIM and Buy and Hold. For the X_DEV the first 13 days are not trading days as the running average is not yet determined. In the AIM there is a buy on the 7th day, so in that sense the two systems are not to be compared for relative performance. If however I cancel the first buy in the AIM then the two systems can be compared, and in that sense it should be a performance benchmark to show the better yield over the Lichello AIM. This reduces the yield on the AIM by only $100 so, the X-Dev can be taken to be a benchmark. If the run is optimised in this case or not is than not relevant as in practice each investor would set the parameters based n his own criteria.
Besides this, one could obviously use a different type of average and change the 0,94 and the 1,06 limits(6% Hold Zone?)and get a different performance.
It is in any case clear that this X-DEV method is one of the many solutions to the idea of concentrating the buys and sells closer to the price extremes than a typical Lichello AIM does.
Conrad
Thank you Myst for the QLGC Spreadsheet.
I transferred the price data onto my own AIM and optimised
the controls. The Result is:
Shares=245,52
Equity=11.515
Cash=26.437
Portfolio=37.951,37....X_DEV=43.893,88
Terminal PC=11.515
PC=Stock Value after every buy or sell
I do not as yet use any special routine to disburse the cash on the basis of analysing the price history. It is evident that any method that concentrates the buy and sell action at the limits of the price extremes the performance will improve, and to the extend that this would be done automatically the more we would like that.
Due to optimisation of the controls for this run the performance would suffer if the price structure would change.
The question I have on the X-DEV Example is if you optimised the parameters for the QLGC run(I have not yet tried to figure out where your parameters are entered or what the are)?
Regards,
Conrad
OK Myst, Yes I was kidding!
Conrad......I hope you are kidding! I would never intentionally introduce a flaw where other peoples money is involved! I've worked long and hard to make sure each spreadsheet is error proof.
I was referring to the discussion on what I called the Lichello Flaw on the AIM Discussion Board. Many interesting discussions developed there.
I am looking forward to looking at a X_DEV Spreadsheet.
Conrad
Hi Myst,
I was introduced to this Myst group today by some cowboy that was lost, but now is found again!
I read:
I am really pleased with my new X_DEV system and quite happy with the results it has been achieving. However, I know it isn't perfect and possibly.....possibly.....could be improved by somebody else. Or maybe it has a hidden flaw that I am not aware of. So far I haven't found one if one uses the system as it was intended.
I have a suggestion: You program a flaw into your system and challenge people to find it...more or less as you are already inviting people to do. If you do insert a flaw loads of people will find it and then a discussion will break loose on this if is is a flaw or a feature. All sorts of interesting interpretations will erupt as to how to eradicate it, improve upon it, change it, circumvent it, and interesting aspects of this flaw will emerge. Your discussion Board will hit 3000 entries in no time and you will discover things about your flaw that you never dreamed about!
All the best.
Your X_DEV looks interesting to say the least, but it appears to be the umpteenth variant to take the Lichello AIM to beyond the clouds! I am tinkering with one myself. Its called the Vortex Exponential Cash Trigger OverRide(VECTOR). It appears that everyone of us thinks we can do better than the next guy.It is best suited as a complement to Lou Dina's Cash Burn-Rate Function.
Well, I am only half joking, but the name I just made up has a nice ring to it: This Vector points the way to big profits!
Conrad
Hi QP and others,
Looking for the Tom's Warehouse?
Your search is all in vain. He took it with him.
Conrad
Dutch Tourist Center?
No Way. These people all want to get you to smell the flowers quickly and to get you to places where the people still wear wooden shoes. You have to ride in a bus with 59 other Americans and you wont have time to meet any Dutch people...If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium....
Conrad
Lou, Its Done!
Contact details are on your e-mail.
Welcome to Dutchland!
Conrad
Hi Lou,
Too bad you caught Tulip Mania. If you have seen one tulip you have seen them all. I suggest you take an extra day and visit the Easter Schelde Sea Barrier. That's awesome! It will beat 10 billion tulips any day.
We may not have as many cows as they have in Texas but Dutch Engineering Feats are worth visiting.
Say, I'll buy you few beer, or something stronger. Everything in Holland is close to Utrecht where I live, so its easy to get to the place you will call home for a few days.
Let me know the place you are staying at if you like to chew the fat!
eng@vortex.demon.nl
Conrad
Tom's AIM Fund?
This idea has crossed my mind several years ago when I was running my Investment Club The Vortex and making significant profit. The problems I encountered were two-fold(All the other problems escaped me at that time):
1 You need a huge marketing budget for a professional marketing campaign and a good number of silver tongues. Simply expanding from a friendly club to a commercial operation does not work. In the Marketing Budget you need to include all the costs of setting up a liaison with a reputable financial institute to carry out the banking and trading activities as well as arranging the certification process that is intended to filter out Charlatans.
2 If you have done all that then you need to have done it well enough to get a portfolio value of at least $10 000 000 to earn the running costs of $100 000 per year at a commission of 1%...and this is a tiny fund for which it is very questionable that it can be run that cheaply(Salary based operation). If you start wit creaming off a 5% fee you run the risk of being lynched(There's not much profit in that).
In order to get this far one needs to either set up the entire organization with AIM Believers orconvince the financial establishment that AIMing works better than stock picking on the basis of how stocks are typically picked by the experts and I believe here we encounter a fundamental problem: AIMing is professed to be a method that makes it possible for average investors to get a little better performance than simply going for a Buy and Hold investment. When you get into serious investing such as setting up a Fund with millions of dollars at stake the Method of AIMing is not taken seriously and my opinion is that you never get to first base. AIMing is a [b/]Maverick Method! and the public at large and the experts will not touch it.
I believe that AIMing will remain interesting on several levels: for selling computer programs separately or in association with an advisory service. As soon as people are asked to let strangers control their money the purse will stay closed until greed or trust will open it.
I am working on a few angles for such commercialisation but I doubt that I ever can get the big crowd behind the plans.
I hope I am dead wrong!
Conrad
Holy Smoke, I have been away a bit...
I am running behind on all the messages. I am wondering how many man-hours are spend on this board. Maybe we could get the Israeli's and Palastinians interested in AIMing. They would no longer have time to fight.
No Joke,
Conrad
PS: It's already the 2nd of April on this side of the world.
Tom and Rien,
Thanks for your info. om the Tobin Smith inquiry.
Regards,
Conrad
Hi Everyone on Change Wave,
I just found the website address:
http://www.changewave.com
Have fun!
Conrad
Coffee Barry,
Interesting indeed! I once did get a good cup of coffee in Canada, but I think it was an accident! In England the coffee is worse than anywhere in the world.
Now, your story about Brazil, I can believe it. The coffee I had there was the best I ever had. It is as good as Tia Maria or Khalua liqueur.
Now, something about investing....Well, I will think of something soon.
Conrad
Rien, Free Coffee?
In Holland I never, ever, got a gratis refill
Try the MacDonalds in Leiden along the A4 on sunday morning. Free refills as much as you want !!!
Something free in Holland?
Are we turning over a new leaf? I have to see this! Are you sure the stuff they give away is coffee?
Conrad
Hello Tom,
I know there are a lot of WAVES in addition to your Idiot Wave. Today I received an e-mail from Tobin Smith who promises the moon in tech stocks that are supposed to go through the roof next year:
e-mail: eseminar@changewave.com
I am very skeptical on such offers. I did not yet read the whole massive e-mail yet but I bet it will cost money to get Tobin's advice.
He claims to have invented the Change Wave. Maybe you and Tobin can form a Team and get your systems together and make up The Idiot Change Wave!
Buy seriously, have you ever heard of this Tobin Smith?
Conrad
Hi Karel,
On Partial Fills it is so that in Canada and the States they keep filling up you coffee mug with partials fills ad infinitum, or at least as long as you do not object to this free service(usually the coffee is pretty weak, but that is a different story).
Now as you know, when anybody buys a coffee in Holland he gets half a thimble full of strong brew, but for every extra half thimble you pay just the same full price. In Holland I never, ever, got a gratis refill...What should we call this Dutch Treat? Frugal? Cheap? Ripp-Off? To the credit of the Texans I might add, if you buy a coffee there you get a rib-eye steak and chips with it.
I recently purchased 50000 penny stock shares and the order was filled in 3 ot 4 Partial Fills but only a one time fee for the whole lot was charged. I assumed that this was standard procedure, as this had happened to me before.
It this not standard for all stock transactions in all countries?
Conrad
Hi Grabber,
Your advice is well placed.
This type of fraud is common place. If "caught" the offender has a way out: "Sorry, I made a mistake."
Before the switch to Euro's in Europe this type of fraud was widely practised by restaurant owners(or employees). They entered Euro's on the credit card slips while it should have been Francs or Lira's, or whatever. A lot of people lost money that way as they only discovered it months later. Invariably, the few people that made a case out of it got the lame excuse that it was an "unfortunate mistake". To try to recover money from a foreign operator is often not worth the troube for most people, so few people did.
Needless to sat that such "mistakes" were never made in countries in which the local currency was worth more than the Euro!
Be Aware!
Conrad
Hi labestul: Table Fixing!
How do you like this?
1997/06/01 N/A N/A N/A
1997/06/11 _99.66% _99.66% 0.00%
1997/09/24 221.03% 208.63% 12.40%
1997/10/20 32.02% _0.41% 32.43%
1997/12/03 _3.47% _26.46% 22.99%
1997/12/24 112.26% 66.01% 46.25%
1998/07/31 _5.11% _18.84% 13.73%
1998/08/21 _7.26% _20.06% 12.80%
1998/09/14 _11.91% _23.09% 11.18%
1998/11/23 _22.56% _29.65% 7.09%
1999/01/06 _36.75% _37.17% 0.42%
1999/01/22 25.67% _3.02% 28.69%
1999/05/11 _5.08% _18.91% 13.83%
1999/07/27 7.69% _9.41% 17.10%
Cowboy. Re W32.BadTrans: Just for virus fanatics.
As by some coincidence I got an IT-magazine in the mail today in which a short article about w32.Badtrans was published with info on the Symantec web as you did...Now I am beginning to wonder...
Do you think that AntiVirus companies make viruses so that they can sell antivirus software? With the free removaldownload I suppose the virus could be removed, but in order to get permanent protection we need a program...this could be a profitable vicious circle! Who knows more about viruses than virus fighters?
Now a question: Why does Symantec sell AntiVirus 2002 software that cannot remove W32.Badtrans.B@mm and then say it can be removed it free of charges on-line? Would it not be logical that with the latest downloads of the 2002 program, that I already paid for, I should be able to remove that virus/worm?
If any of you is employed by Symantec I would appreciate an honest answer! If you do not work from Symantec I appreciate an honest answer just the same!
Conrad
Hi TV
Whow!
Conrad
Conrad
To areokat,
Hey, you got any of those tulip bulbs for sale?
Yes, How many head do you want in your tulip herd? I am new at tulip bulb selling, so may be you should invest in tulip farming. We have tulip fields so big a Texan would be impressed.
Lets make a Deal. You pay the money and I look for a deal. Its a bit different than AIMing though.
Did you know that we have the biggest fresh flower auctioneering in the World?
Conrad
Conrad
Hi Tom, Jaguar?
It's a few years ago already, so I can't offhand recall much about that all the things that happened. I sure recall the funny part about Harold chopping off his hand with a hatchet. What a way to impress someone!
Something about funerals begins to dawn in back of my head... I see it clearly now...I see the Jaguar being buried. Jeah, what a shame!
Conrad
Conrad
QuillandPenn..Miss Daisy?
I can hear a bell toll somewhere but I don't know if it's for me.
Anyway, I got the Norton 2002 updates so the world should be safe from me for a while.
Miss Daisy eludes me. What wisdom does she brings us?
I remember Harold and Maude but Daisy only rings a bell...faintly.
Be well.
Conrad
Conrad
QuillandPenn Some Virus!
Yes, it happened on or before the 21st. All Of a sudden I received 24 junk e-mails and reports of viruses and misdirected emails. I solved the problem today. The little bastard got quarantined, as it could not be eliminated. The Norton scan went through 28000 files to get 9 infected ones. It was the W32.Badtrans.B@mm
Conrad
Conrad
No Chicken Feed!
Tom, I wish I had a Stake in that company!
Perfect AIM example with enough pattern to recognize!
Just imagine also what Turbo Credit Investing would have done with that stock!
Good Show!
Conrad
Hi shigbig,
I know that due to cultural differences it is not uncommon that jokes are misunderstood sometimes. Let me assure you that in no way the use of "Jew" in this joke has anything to do with anti-Semitism. You raised an important issue that’s more important than any AIM issue will ever be. AIM-talk can wait. I’ll take the liberty to elaborate….
In the same way that Belgians do not express anything anti- Dutch, nor Dutchmen express anything anti-Belgian, Dutch-Belgian jokes are told to achieve what we call one-upmanship to restore a skewed start-off. In fact, such jokes deliver maximum punch in Dutch/Belgian company. Jokes express something that makes people laugh at themselves...these little stories accentuate how people are, and usually have to do with outdoing each other in a friendly way...a bit like the stories about the big fish that got away are not stories about big fish but stories about people who talk about the one that got away!
In jokes the issues are the way how people see themselves in relation to the other, not only on a personal level but on a national one as well. In a few lines one tells it all!
In my joke I accentuate how Americans and the Dutch see themselves,through my eyes, mind you, not only as people but also as a nations: The Big Picture is what counts for Americans, and a Texan is the extreme of that self-image. Details are secondary. If a Texan buys a herd of 600 000 cows he doesn’t care one way or the other that there might be 300 donkeys and 50 horses in the lot. Stretched to the limit he doesn’t even care is there are no cows at all: he simply wants to have the biggest herd in the world! This symbolizes Americans in general. Against this mighty 6 ft – 7 in giant the Dutch have to think of being smart instead to make the scales balance and create equality when we drink beer with Yankees, or are fishing with them. The Dutch survived being drowned by the sea by building dikes. Being a tiny country we thrived on wheeling and dealing. We buy oil from the Arabs and sell them plastic Tupper Ware… we did not invent Tupper Ware but we sell it just the same.
In the joke the Dutchman had to be smart to get rid of the junk in his basement, instead of powerful, and when the Texan tried to take revenge he was still a Texan that only saw the big picture, and got taken again on missing the details…what I might have added in the story is that the Dutch can be too smart for their own good:… after the Dutchman picked up the garage the Texan found a painting of Rembrandt in the junk he imported from Holland, and he bought a bigger garage than he had, as well as a few of the biggest, fanciest cars he could find.
I hope that you will get it now, or in the future, that anti-Semitism is not expressed in such jokes. I even hope that you might come to a point that you can appreciate jokes about Jews and tell us a few. Jewish friends of mine told me a few good jokes as well, about Jews, of course.
Conrad
Conrad
QST3WJ$A+I! AIM,
Hope this clears things up
When I bought the Money Spinner 20+ years ago I quickly got the essence of the concept but the details made my head spin.
After reading about all the different versions of AiM, and now about your TWO-DOWN AIMs my head is spinning again.
Its amazing how a limited number of people can think of so many different AIMS.
What's next?
An AIM that actually makes money out of nothing?
OK, I follow what you are doing, but the purpose escapes me.
Buy that's fine, I got a lot on my head, lately, and due to the fact that it's spinning like crazy nothing will get in for a while. I'll take a rain check!
Amazed and Spinning
Conrad
Conrad
Rien, No-Down AIM?????
No-Down AIM.
I was thinking of starting a no-down AIM account with CREE. I have AIMed CREE before, but after a particular bad piece of guidance from them I sold my complete holding as I was of the opinion that they were way overvalued. (That was at $23, today it is trading for $13-$14) Conrad would be proud of me
The burning question in this: At what price did you start? In any case, this looks a bit like a stop/loss bail out! Indeed a good move if you "saw" the dip coming up. On the other hand, if CREE has good fundamentals and if it is a jumpy stock you could have AIMed to $13 and made a profit on the way down.
I missed any previous discussions on No-Down-AIM. What is it?Do you mean you hope the stock won't drop in price or do you mean you will use a 99% stop/loss?
Conrad
Conrad
Hi TomK,
I kind of like the joke too. It's actually the first one I made up my self.
In regards to beefing up your Portfolio, may be you could try my Turbo Credit Investing with your AIM.
If you want to read up on it send me a request on my e-mail
eng@vortex.demon.nl
Conrad
Conrad
Hi TomK...Is it Areokat of Tomkat?
do you Dutch guys have anything like that over there or is it just us materialistic American types? Anyway, at one a lady told the guy-"I WANT IT, how much is it, what is it"- in that order.
Beautiful! And that coming from an American!
I lived in Vancoucer, Canada for 21 years. One of my colleges told me that a Dutchman can sell something to a Jew and still make a buck. Mind you I don't know of this is actually true, but with so many things in life I run with the crowd that runs like winners. This Canadian told me something about Americans as well.
Yes, in Holland we have such sale events frequently as well, but we cal then Basement Clean Out Sales. At one an American tourist from Texas comes along and says: -"I WANT IT, how much is it, what is it" in that order. Then the Dutchman says: "The price is 359,99 Euro". The American says" "What the hell is a URO worth? The Dutchie says: "It used to be a buck-25 but now is worth about half that, that’s why 359,99 Euro is a real bargain!
So, the Texan can't resist a bargain when he sees one. He pays his money with 2 crisp 100 US Dollar bills and says:"Keep the change"..."What is it?"
The Dutchman: Its all the stuff in the basement. You have to clean it out. Don't leave anything.....A deal is a deal!"
So, the American that got taken in Holland holds in Texas a Garage Sale one day to sell the imported junk from the basement in Holland, and he sees a Dutchman sniffing around. He wants to get back at the Dutch, just to get even, if nothing else. After some clapping of hands they make a deal for $ 34,95. "A deal is a deal" says the Dutchman.
The American says:"Now, what the hell did I sell you?"
"The garage" says the Dutchman. "I'll pick it up tomorrow"
cognito profito ergo sum
(Conrad)
Hello Tom, On the VHS Lichello tapes.
You are right on that. The VHS needs to be converted to PAL...or at least it used to be necessary in the past. The conversion use to be quite expensive.
How about the conversion to CD Option?
Conrad
Conrad
Hi Areokat,
Your message caught my attention:
I'm one of those compulsive-obsessive types that just has to have a complete set of everything.
I have a few sets that you don't have yet.
Lets make a deal! As the number of sets increase, the price goes down.
Conrad
Conrad
Karel, Rien and Whitelake,
On the AIM + TA issue you are already progressed to a more detailed discussion than I personally have experience with, and on these details I have little to add. I just want to leave the details to you guys.
I might add that Basic logic tells that if we use a combination of two systems that this mix of two methods is always complementary or supplementary unless the systems are contradictory. Considering the basic agreement that both TA and AIM fall back on Buy Low-Sell High objectives the essence of the discussions are focussed on how much to buy or sell and when to do it. For that reason I call the two systems complementary rather than incompatible.
Success on this.
Conrad
Conrad
Now, this is ridiculous!
It's all AIMless gibberish. It's got to stop!
Losing money can happen the best of AIMs.
Don't BLAIM the AIM...
AIM the BLAIM!
Hey, Grabber! Get Serious please!
This Wizard Suit suggestion of yours makes my attempt to finally Make a Million Dollars Automatically on my Dare To AIM Great venture look like a crack pot idea.
I think Tom should cut his beard, don a pin-striped suit on the show. If necessary he should be forced to wear a wig!
Here I finally present my Sure Fire way of making a lot of money for all us and Grabber thinks I am jesting!
I vote that Grabber should wear the Wizard Suit on the next Annual AIM Meeting.
Conrad
Tom...On the Lichello Infomercials..
Great idea that you made this request. Probably it is a good idea to make CD's of the Lichello presentations and sell them to AIMers. I would buy one if the price is reasonable.
Anybody know what it would cost to make a CD Master or a Digital Master that could be distributed via e-mail or via a web-store?
It could be a business venture in which all of us will take a stake to fund the scheme, and then we can AIM The AIM Equity after the public share issue is sold OTC and then on the Nasdaq later on. Anybody cares to set up this Dare to AIM Great enterprise?
Knowing that millions of people will buy stock in companies they know nothing about(witness the Internet Hype we still remember) we will have one of those ventures that have low risk and a high payout.
Conrad
Conrad