Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Yo Janice! Careful, you'll get Cindy all excited....!
This is her first foray into the dark basher underworld....but she sure is having fun...and doing an awesome job....
Stick around, ya hear!!
By Friday, Rufus should have the company theoretical value well above that of even the US of EH!!!!
Ha ha, you are funny. Did you fall for the "Confessions of a Paid Basher" piece that has been floating around for years? Maybe you didn't know that there is no evidence of what you pumpers purport. Conversely, there is plenty of evidence of boiler rooms and other operations whereby pumpers are rewarded for their work.
Actually, I run a business, doing hard physical labor. We average about $85 per manhour. 50% profit margin.
Did you also notice that the bond that Rufus claims to now control is for only $700mm, not the $5bn that he claimed? And that it is owned not by him but by multiple parties. So, he could try and claim it as an asset, but the books would also have to show an offsetting liability.
You longs all think Rufus can create value out of thin air. Well, so far, all we've seen from him is HOT air.....nothing provable....just PR's, and 8-K's that are NOT SEC approved, BUT are very likely bneing scrutunized closely by said agency as part of its investigation.
So, what will Rufus do to keep the spin alive when he fails to produce a full 10-K that proves a consummated merger, and shows billions in value?
Actually, you have no idea what you are talking about.
what, did someone lace your Kool-aid with mescal?
Well, voucher, judging by what the Street thinks of this stock, I won't be needing the garnish to make the hat go down better. I see she's at .0003......that may seem low, but .0001 is looming.
I'm pretty sure the $4 requirement (which also may also need to be maintained for a period of time prior to listing) is mandatory for all inital listings, regardless if the other stipulations are met. But, I believe an SB-2 must be filed, and the approval process is very slow. So, even if this stock turns out to be legit, which many of us doubt very much, a Q listing will not be imminent.
Sorry, Dd, sct brought up that board, and we traded posts....
Well, if Rufus doesn't issue an 8K-a, he'll be guilty of fraud, market manipulation, whatever.
Reason being, That bond is not for 5 billion, but 700mm.....and then of course there's the fact that he doesn't own it all--if he owns any of it....
Your right, sct, after Friday it will be evident to anyone capable of reasoning that CSHD is a scam.
This one is a cut and dried scam, period. So is NMCX.
della, did you read the info I provided? Some of the links still work. No one was ever able to find anything about Sheppard's history, except the bad stuff with the affinity scam. It doesn't take a genius to realize that something is amiss....
Actually, okie, it isn't only the pumpers and longs, but the company men themselves that have a grade one education. That's why any miner worth his salt, or investor educated in evaluating junior mining stocks, or any mining analyst, after reading up on this company's claims, knows 100% for a fact that they are conmen.
$20,000 worth of minerals in a ton of that dirt?? Hilarious, not unless aliens have been implanting it with space gold dust.....
what say, let's critique that old news:
Wineco Productions, Inc. Subsidiary, Development Exploration and Mining, Enters into Agreement for Gold Extraction Plant at Willow Creek Mine
Business Wire, March 31, 2005
SUNRISE, Fla. -- Development Exploration and Mining (DEMI), a wholly owned subsidiary of Wineco Productions, Inc. (OTC:WNCP), has entered into agreements for the famous Willow Creek Mine in Northern Nevada.
The mine produces Gold and other precious metals. Development Exploration and Mining (DEMI) has committed to building a chemical extraction plant at nearby Federal Route 80. Total expenditure on the plant will exceed three million dollars, and will employ up to 40 people. DEMI expects the plant to be in operation within 90 days.
never happened
Chemical extraction will retrieve gold particles that are not possible to retrieve using conventional mining methods. poppycock, if there were such a thing, real miners would be utilizing theprocess Particles of gold as small as micron size will be extracted from what was formally waste material at the mine site. Tests indicate up to 6 oz's of gold per ton of waste in micron size. No miners would leave even .02 opt behind in tailings The first phase of the plant will process 6 to 12 tons of waste per day. That is one tiny mill.....at a more realistic productivity level of even .1 opt, that is $500-1000 per day. Wow....
Wineco is presently negotiating for plant sites at four (4) additional sites for DEMI extraction plants. Hearsay, no evidence that DEMI even exists, now over a year later.
Advertisement
Shark shirt...me, I am NOT bashing the unknown, period. Read my posts. This ragtag outift is 100% scam.
One, I KNOW what valid assays by reputable labs would show.....under .005 opt Pt, and under .05 opt Au, prolly under .02....
Two, any mining company that won't disclose the location of their property is suspect right off the bat.
Three, reworking tailings can be a success, but is really not done that much, and never at a high profit margin.
Four, hedge funds don't mess with grey sheet penny mining garbage.
Yep, gumper will be the thumper!!
And don't you youngsters fergit it..
ff, don't even think to presume that I care what you have to say. I consider it my mission to expose blatant mining scams. And this one is one of the easiest to spot that I have ever seen. 100% scam. The principals are crooks, or just white collar types who have the naivete of a possum as regards to mining.
And.....what's yer point? I've read the fluff piece. Doesn't say a word about anything that CVSU brought to the JV...except a 40% equity position, which was never funded...not even a dollar's worth.....
What a joke...your eyes are wide shut it would appear....maybe you should hang with the HSM kool-aiders.
Yeah, early on this board was loaded with naivete. But that place has the largest collection of lunatics imaginable. Most are gonna go down with the ship...and don't have a clue..or why for that matter.....
Thanks to loads of good DD by experienced folks, many longs here have wised up.
C'mon, diamond, whoever you are, can you not even spell?
Hilarious. This soap opera just gets more fun by the minute. Even Mensah, whose many posts on HSM seem out of the norm for a respected scientist, is now sporting imposters.
Why not just go after Rufus the normal way, with letters backed up by legal action, rather than airing all the dirty laundry in public.
Poppycock. AISS was nothing without GA and it's experience. What the hel do Ruf the Duf or any of his cohorts in grime know about aerospace? Less than will fit on the head of a pin, methinx...
He should be in jail...
..or the funny farm.
Ah, I see Crissy. I just read the bogus news more closely.....what a crock. Have you done any searches on the "Iron Mountain" area? I'd thought an earlier release mentioned a Cali site. Maybe aliens are moving gold laden stardust around...
Oh, that is rich!!! I have never heard of a resource stock getting financing from a hedge fund!!! LOL.
This is an out and out SCAM!!!!
Crissy, you're still talking about the wrong Mineral Mt...But it doesn't matter, as there is no tailings pile on earth that is worth even a fraction of what this shady outfit is claiming. As I've said before, anyone considering investing in this stock needs to educate himself about mining stocks and the industry. Then you will realize that to buy this is throwing your money away. Even the pumps aren't working.
C'mon Logan, I'm sure you're reading this board. Post some proof for us....like assays from Act Labs, or Chemex..... or, hel l, sue me.
How about map co-ordinates for the supposed California Mineral Mt....aerial photos, closest town... links to its history, previous mining, etc etc
"If so, can you wrap clams in bacon?"
If they're bearded, you can do that and a lot more....
I posted this link Sep 8, and got 3 thank yous. Here's the whole text. Hopefully the company con artists will read it and this board, and know that they've been outed.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=13136701NBMG
Gold from Water (And Other Mining Scams)
by Paul Lechler, Chief Geochemist
Investors lose $2 billion as mining-stock price plummets on news that Indonesian gold ore contains no gold! The Canadian mining company Bre-X successfully attracted a range of investors, from unsophisticated individuals to savvy mining professionals, to invest in its Busang gold prospect, claimed to be the largest discovery of gold in history. After years of successful promotion, the truth about this worthless property slowly emerged early in 1997 and drove Bre-X stock prices nearly to zero. The boldness, sophistication, and magnitude of this scam is almost unbelievable, dramatically eclipsing previous schemes like this. It is the largest case on record, but only one of many such mining scams, both large and small, apparently unintentional or boldly deceitful, perpetrated on investors over the centuries.
Mining, when entered by a novice, can be a dangerous place to invest one's money. Mark Twain said, "A mine is a hole in the ground owned by liars." Mark Twain spent a number of years on the Comstock lode in Virginia City, Nevada, and through repeated experience, knew what he was talking about. Mining is a thoroughly respectable business, but the unwary investor can be duped by con artists.
Having worked as an analytical geochemist for many years I have been confronted with many scams and many confused prospectors. Analytical geochemists are professionals who, after many years of college and two or three degrees in chemistry, geology, or the hybrid, geochemistry, are skilled at determining the concentrations of elements (such as gold, silver, platinum, and copper) in rocks, minerals, soils, sediments, water, and vegetation. These natural materials are complex, containing at least trace amounts of all of the naturally occurring elements on the periodic chart from hydrogen (atomic number 1) through uranium (atomic number 92), except for technetium (number 43, which has not been found to occur naturally) and promethium (number 61, another short-lived radioactive element not found naturally). The complexity of these natural materials makes their analysis a difficult task, requiring extensive knowledge, experience, and expensive instrumentation.
I have been exposed to many varieties of mining scams and have tried to help people whose limited knowledge has gotten them in over their heads in one situation or another. That people might pursue prospecting or investing in mining projects comes, I think, from the perception that, with little financial investment and/or only very basic knowledge, one can successfully find a valuable mineral deposit just waiting for discovery. This is akin to a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or finding a buried or sunken treasure. The problem, I have found, is that when exploring a new field of knowledge that is unfamiliar to us it is very difficult to know just how ignorant we are. We can read books, magazines, and technical papers and feel that we have learned a tremendous amount and feel very knowledgeable about the subject. The problem is that we don't really know whether we now have a command of the subject or whether we have not even scratched the surface. This is one very valuable feature of obtaining a formal education or even taking a class in a subject given by a specialist in the field: the professor or specialist knows the breadth and depth of the field and can answer this question for you.
I have observed that there are several types of people who become involved in mining imbroglios or promotions:
* The classic con artist who intentionally tries to sell a worthless mining property or ineffective machine or technology for extracting valuable metals from a deposit that cannot be otherwise worked at a profit.
* The prospector with marginal knowledge who inadvertently promotes a worthless property or process on friends, family, other investors, or himself, because he knows no better.
* The devious small laboratory owner , generally in a rural location, who intentionally reports high concentrations of valuable metals in almost every sample he analyzes to encourage customers to continue prospecting, sampling, and developing properties. In this way he guarantees himself more business as customers extend their sampling and chase their tails trying to outline a rich mineral deposit that is not there.
* The incompetent assayer or self-taught, but incompetent, extractive metallurgist who inadvertently causes others to develop a worthless property or process through erroneous analytical results. This he does out of incompetence, not malice, but the end results are the same disastrous ones.
Some people possess a natural savvy or personal cautiousness that leads them to seek a second opinion from a professional specialist before being drawn into a promotion or misguided project. I have met more people, however, who are already in trouble (financially and/or legally) when they come seeking professional, unbiased help. In either case, the victim wants to believe the incompetent or devious promoter rather than believe me when I generally have to tell them that there is no value in the property or process that they are pursuing. Or they are reluctant to accept the truth when I have to point out that they have brought me a sample containing a significant amount of gold, for instance, but that the small vein from which it came does not contain enough tonnage of this same material to constitute a valuable ore deposit, and it would cost more to mine and process the vein material than there is value of gold present in the vein.
But this, I have come to understand, is reasonable because the victim wants to believe that there are riches to be had from the project in which they have become involved. The alternative is to believe me when I have to tell them that they have wasted their money and/or have inadvertently led others to throw their money into a worthless project.
Often, there is some aspect of the project that does not seem quite right or consistent, however, which is the reason that they have come seeking another opinion. This is often the point where a misguided or promoted extraction technique has been financed and a mill built, only to find that there are "low- recovery" problems with the mill. In actuality, there is generally no precious metal in the "ore" to be recovered. Once I show them how to use scientific methods to control the number of variables that they are dealing with, to assess whether their rocks are ore or not, they reluctantly take my advice, agreeing that my careful, stepwise assessment has led to the unambiguous conclusion that the project is worthless.
Other people, however, come with samples several times before they are persuaded to cut their losses and abandon the project. And then there are those who simply get angry and accuse me of close- mindedness and of being unwilling to consider anything new. I am really not, however, and have often followed others' "menus" under controlled conditions in our clean laboratories, to assess special assaying or extraction protocols that are said to release or liberate the gold in a sample that otherwise would report nothing when assayed. Without exception this has convincingly and unambiguously demonstrated that the "special" protocols or treatments are useless.
There are many varieties of scams and many claims, for one reason or another, that certain ores cannot be assayed by conventional methods. The story generally goes that the materials contain fabulous, ore- grade concentrations of precious metals but some peculiarity of the ore causes conventional assaying methods to fail to record their presence. Not only is the ore very high grade, there are tremendous quantities of it that will yield millions or billions of dollars in riches when using the new methods of assaying and/or extraction. Many of these scams and claims are recurring and one must have patience to deal with them over and over again. The types of scams will be reviewed below and the claims of unassayable ores will be explained and dismantled.
This problem of promoting worthless properties and procedures is a very old problem that is difficult to exterminate. People who become interested in investing in mining projects and look for tremendous returns by funding unusual new technologies or unusual new properties generally do not have the depth of knowledge required to properly assess these projects. Unless they realize this and hire an unbiased consultant to guide them, they are doomed to repeat this aspect of history. Mark Twain, in his book Roughing It, tells an interesting and not uncommon vignette:
"Assaying was a good business, and so some men engaged in it, occasionally, who were not strictly scientific and capable. One assayer got such rich results out of all specimens brought to him that in time he acquired almost a monopoly of the business. But like all men who achieve success, he became an object of envy and suspicion. The other assayers entered into a conspiracy against him, and let some prominent citizens into the secret in order to show that they meant fairly.
"Then they broke a little fragment off a carpenter's grindstone and got a stranger to take it to the popular scientist and get it assayed. In the course of an hour the result came, whereby it appeared that a ton of that rock would yield $1,284.40 in silver and $366.36 in gold!.... Due publication of the whole matter was made in the paper, and the popular assayer left town 'between two days'. "
Ore vs. Mineralization, a Fundamentally Critical Concept
The title of this publication suggests that one cannot obtain gold from water. This is not entirely true. Water, like other natural substances, contains at least trace amounts of all of the [Image] elements found on Earth, including gold. The critical point is that, given current technology, one cannot extract gold profitably from seawater or most other water because the concentration of gold is very small (it has been tried repeatedly, notably by the Germans during World War I to help fund their war machine, unsuccessfully, of course). Very large volumes of water would have to be processed to recover a small amount of gold. It has always cost more to process the water than the value of gold in that water. The more water we process, the more money we lose. If we could find a reservoir of water somewhere that, for some reason, had a much higher concentration of gold than normal, we could indeed make money by extracting gold from water (this is exactly what some promoters try to sell to unwitting investors). This is akin to the concept of an orebody (which can be profitably worked) as compared to mere mineralization (which cannot currently be worked profitably). Let's analyze this critical concept further.
Natural processes recurring over the history of the Earth have caused some minerals to become concentrated in extraordinary amounts in rocks in certain places. These areas of concentration of minerals are where we go to extract minerals at a profit. Finding areas of exceptional mineral concentration is the realm of prospecting or mineral exploration.
In order for the extraction of minerals to be profitable, the proper minerals generally must be:
* Highly concentrated by natural processes,
* Located in rocks near the Earth's surface,
* Located in an environmentally insensitive spot, with relatively easy access, with water available, power not too far away, inexpensive transportation available to ship the extracted minerals, in an area of hospitable climate, etc. This type of mineralization is referred to as an orebody because the minerals constituting ore can be processed and sold for a profit.
The discrimination between mere mineralization and an orebody requires three-dimensional information about the volume of mineral-rich rock available for extraction. This requires drilling, tunneling, or trenching, combined with sampling the rocks and assaying them. This is the only way to determine how many tons of mineralized rock are present and what concentrations of the metals are present. After calculating the value of the minerals in the ground, we must determine the costs to extract a certain percentage of the minerals from the ore (it is generally not possible to extract 100% of the ore mineral). The value of the minerals in the ground minus the costs to extract the minerals, minus the up-front costs of prospecting and constructing and permitting the mine, minus the end costs to decommission the mine and reclaim the area, tells us how much net profit might be available to earn over the life of the mine. Only at this point can we rationally make a decision whether to pursue the project or investment. It can be very expensive to get to this decision point, and most individuals cannot afford to get there on their own.
Some Recurring Assaying Scams
The assaying scams are essentially· limited to the precious metals, largely gold, silver, platinum, and rhodium. There are reasons for this. Many elements are mined from the Earth, but only the very valuable elements (precious metals) can be profitably mined at very low concentrations in their ores (see the table below for relative values of precious metals and base metals). At these very low concentrations, the precious metals or minerals are generally very finely and widely dispersed throughout the rock. They are so finely dispersed that they are often difficult or impossible to see with conventional microscopes even when their concentrations are high enough to be mined profitably. This forces us to rely on the results of chemical assays to determine whether economic concentrations of these precious metals are present, without being able to verify their presence with a microscope. This is where the incompetent and the unscrupulous find fruitful ground to err, to misconstrue, and to deceive. These problems and scams do not arise with other metals because the erroneous or fraudulent assay results could quickly be verified or dismissed through microscopic examination of the ore by a competent mineralogist, either professional or amateur.
While the salting of samples (covertly adding a small amount of metal to a sample that a potential investor would then have assayed) still occurs, it has not been tried on samples that I have received for verification assaying. It is not difficult to tell microscopically the difference between the manner in which nature and man normally add precious metals to rocks. Knowing this, Bre-X employees, in manipulating the apparent gold grades in drilling samples from the Busang prospect, blended in small portions of very high-grade natural ore material from other properties with the Busang samples. This made the Busang samples appear to be moderately mineralized with gold and effectively delayed the discovery of salting of the samples for years.
Approximate prices per pound of precious and base metals
Gold and Silver Platinum Group Base Metals
Gold $4,700 Platinum $6,300 Copper $1.00
Silver 60 Palladium 2,200 Lead 0.40
Rhodium 3,900 Zinc 0.75
Ruthenium 550
Osmium 4,000
Iridium 2,800
Those prospectors who are on a really tight budget (and there are many) will often try to perform assays at home because they cannot afford the ten dollars or so that it costs to get a commercial assay done. When prospecting for precious metals, assays are necessary or one is limited to looking only for very high grade deposits in which the metals are visible. With home assays people generally run astray almost immediately and will often call to discuss their findings or send in a sample for verification. Those who check their results early generally have not lost much when they are confronted with their errors.
In general, assaying scams involve convincing everyone that the "ore" in question is complex or, for some other reason, cannot be assayed by normal methods. Often some special pretreatment is required (such as adding a roasting step and then treating the ore with water, leaching first with sulfuric acid, subjecting the ore first to an arc similar to an electric welder, and/or pretreating with sugar or salt) before fire-assaying the sample. Another unsubstantiated claim is that some "ores" are time-dependent: good results can be obtained by fire assay shortly after crushing the sample but values will decrease with time afterwards. I have even heard claims recently that better assay results can be obtained on rainy days.
Sometimes it is said that the ore cannot be fire assayed at all because the gold is in a volatile form that would be burned off from the sample and lost during fire assaying. While this is largely not true, such samples can always be analyzed by standard wet-chemical methods which do not involve heating the samples in high-temperature (1050°C) furnaces.
Spectroscopic instruments are widely used by reputable commercial laboratories and include atomic absorption spectrometry (AA), inductively-coupled plasma-optical emission spectrometry (ICP-OES or, simply, ICP), and direct-coupled plasma-optical emission spectrometry (DCP-OES or, simply, DCP). In fact, when used properly, these methods are very accurate and reliable. The problem usually arises when a wet-chemistry step in the preparation of the samples is eliminated (the organic extraction of the precious metals into methyl iso-butyl ketone [MIBK] and the washing of that organic solvent with hydrochloric acid to remove iron from the organic layer; iron interferes with the spectrometric determination of most precious metals). Without thorough knowledge of precisely what the individual steps in a documented procedure accomplish, and what a modification of a step will actually do, one must not deviate from published analytical methods.
Good wet-chemical methods of determining the quantity of gold in a sample are used routinely by competent laboratories. However, the incompetent or unscrupulous do not use the standard, scientifically established methodology, but modify methods until they get results indicating to them that large quantities of precious metals are present. In fact, what they generally do is totally invalidate a good procedure and arrive at results which they misinterpret as indicating the presence of precious metals. Sometimes this is a consequence of having received sketchy details of the methodology, anecdotally for instance, and unknowingly conducting the analysis incorrectly. Some dabble with developing their own methods of assaying for precious metals but do not have the necessary background and do not understand the quality assurance procedures required to assess the validity of what they have done.
It can be difficult to prove that others have intentionally developed methods that can trick the unskilled into believing that there is value in rocks that actually have none. This is a very common error, or scheme, which causes an erroneous indication of the presence of precious metals when conducting the analysis instrumentally.
Laboratory-Specific Ore-Grade Assays
Certain laboratories repeatedly produce unreasonable data, indicating, in almost any rock, exceptionally high concentrations of one or more precious metals. Some of these assays I have had call to check and, without exception, I have been unable to substantiate claims of very high, ore-grade, concentrations of the precious metals. In fact, we professionals in the mining industry have come to be leery of, if not simply to dismiss, assays from certain towns because of the dismal reputations of the laboratories there.
Several years ago, the Nevada Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) asked me to help them determine how one laboratory was apparently salting samples from a cinder-cone property that they were promoting by way of inviting people to invest in their project. After being unable to duplicate the results produced by the laboratory in question through umpire assays at other laboratories, the SEC visited the lab and videotaped their procedure for assaying samples. They then obtained, on my recommendation, a sample of all chemicals that were added to samples during the course of the assay so that I could check them for gold contamination. Had I detected contamination of gold in one of the chemicals (which I did not), it could have been argued that the "salting" was inadvertent and that we were dealing with mere incompetents. Results of my contamination check led to the conclusion that gold was being added covertly and intentionally and that an intentional scam was being perpetrated on investors. The SEC went so far as to have me duplicate exactly the assaying steps of the other laboratory, which included the unusual step of adding sugar to the sample at one point, to confirm that their slightly different procedure was not actually responsible for liberating some unassayable gold in the samples. Using their exact methodology and samples did not, of course, result in our being able to detect significant gold in their property's samples because they were covertly salting the samples in their laboratory during assaying. Even careful screening of the videotape of their assaying steps did not reveal at which step they were doing the salting, however. Unfortunately, the SEC determined that they had insufficient evidence with which to prosecute the con artists and reluctantly stopped pursuing the case.
Some Recurring Property Scams
Property promoters are not stupid people. They often conceive their scams so as to be at least partially believable, even to knowledgeable professionals. The difference between the typical victims of these scams and the knowledgeable professional is that the professional knows how to quickly evaluate and verify or discredit the claims. He does this by calling on extensive knowledge about geology and ore deposits and through the use of the scientific method to avoid being confused and duped by the promoter.
A couple of examples of attempts to promote platinum-bearing properties in southern Nevada and a silver property in Texas illustrate the nature of these endeavors to deceive and extract money from gullible investors. These investors are gullible in this context if they are not fully versed in economic geology, are not particularly savvy and do not use principles of the scientific method, or are not alert enough to realize that they need to employ a consultant to help them effectively evaluate the property and investment. They often are otherwise intelligent, sensible people who can be deceived about mining claims simply because of their unfamiliarity with the subject.
Playa deposits/Moapa lakebed deposits
Southern Nevada is one of a few areas in the United States where platinum mineralization is known to occur. The mineralization occurs in the lower elevations of a couple of mountain ranges southwest and northeast of Las Vegas. From time to time, promoters try to convince investors that platinum has washed out of the exposed occurrences in the ranges and has built up to ore grades in the adjacent closed basins in the valleys. In the semiarid West, these normally dry lakebeds in closed basins are called playas, and playa scams concerning gold and the platinum-group elements (platinum, palladium, rhodium, ruthenium, osmium, and iridium) recur regularly. The Moapa lakebed deposits, regionally adjacent to the platinum- bearing Bunkerville mining district northeast of Las Vegas is a favorite area in which to attempt to promote platinum properties. Although it is at least possible that such enrichment processes occur, I have seen absolutely no reliable evidence that they have. Colleagues and I have assessed and discredited these scams more than once.
Silver in Texas -- a variation on the theme
One of the boldest and richest mining scams ever recorded occurred in 1976. The amount extorted from eager investors was estimated to have exceeded $30 million! Three con artists enticed investors with a phony proprietary technology which was to extract substantial silver from vast reserves of ore near Llano, Texas (never mind that there was actually no silver in the rocks to be extracted).
Up-front money was needed from the investors to secure the mining property in Texas and to attract a $10,000,000 loan to build the needed refinery. Investors were told that they would double their money in one week and some were enticed to invest substantially. A widow from the South invested $450,000 and a former Chrysler Corporation president invested $150,000. Needless to say, investors never realized any profit from their investments and, in fact, lost essentially everything that they had invested. Was it the con artists' skill and charisma or the investors' eagerness to see unbelievable returns (or both) that resulted in this debacle? The money was funneled into a bank in the Bahamas where it was essentially out of reach of American officials who eventually were brought into the scam to investigate the broken promises. Indictments were obtained but Bahamian officials refused to cooperate and resisted extradition attempts. Investors never recovered their money.
Other favorite areas in which to try to deceive investors include basaltic cinder cones, lavas in general, the Mancos Shale, the Humboldt Sink, purportedly platinum-rich brines in Nevada, and purportedly gold- rich water in any area. Some promoters try to obtain large loans using barrels of mineral concentrates as collateral (or mining properties themselves). Often the contents of the barrels or properties are essentially worthless and are simply variations on themes presented above.
The Problem of Quartz Veins
I have probably seen more prospectors confused by quartz veins than any other type of mineralization. There are many examples in the western United States where early prospectors found outcropping quartz veins containing gold. These miners constructed vertical shafts or burrowed into hillsides to extract the gold-bearing quartz. Many times, however, while the quartz vein continued underground, it eventually no longer carried gold with it and the miner would abandon the pit or adit. Modern prospectors happening upon these prospects will obtain good assays on residual, high-grade samples that they grab from the wall of the hole near the entrance. Thinking they have found a valuable vein, they will begin mining the quartz at depth only to find that they cannot recover any gold from it.
The problem is that the geologic processes that have deposited quartz in the fracture in the rock are different than the processes that normally cause gold to be deposited. Because of this difference in depositional mechanisms for quartz and for gold, the fracture may be filled with quartz to great depths but the gold may only have been deposited in the shallow portions of the vein. Thus, while the shallow, previously mined portion of the quartz vein contained gold, the modern prospector can persistently follow the vein underground until he goes broke without encountering any more gold. A vein that is pinching and swelling with depth, however, may have deposited gold in several of the wider parts of the vein while depositing none in the narrow zones. This can make it difficult to determine whether a barren zone in the quartz vein may carry gold in a deeper, wider part of the vein. Eventually even these pinching- swelling veins will run out of gold at some depth, however. Prospectors can waste a lot of time and money unjustifiably pursuing gold in barren quartz veins below productive horizons. Devious promoters can likewise make a worthless vein appear to be exceptionally valuable by guiding you to sample remnants of the gold-rich, shallow vein material and indicating that the quartz vein continues with depth. It may indeed continue to some substantial depth but it may have no precious metals accompanying the quartz and may be of little value at all. Be careful!
In Roughing It, Mark Twain wrote:
"The sagacious reader will know now, without being told, that the speculative miner, in getting a "fire assay" made of a piece of rock from his mine (to help him sell the same), was not in the habit of picking out the least valuable fragment of rock on his dump pile, but quite the contrary. I have seen men hunt over a pile of nearly worthless quartz for an hour, and at last find a little piece as large as a filbert, which was rich in gold and silver -- and this was reserved for a fire assay! Of course the fire assay would demonstrate that a ton of such rock would yield hundreds of dollars -- and on such assays many an utterly worthless mine was sold."
The Scientific Method and Reliable, Unambiguous Data:
How to Avoid being Duped!
Scams generally involve attempts to convince someone that a rock is enriched in gold and/or other precious metals when it is not. Using principles of the scientific method, we can confirm or discount this assertion in an unambiguous, accurate, and reliable way. Let's look at a probably familiar analogy to review how the scientific method works and why we have come to trust its results.
We are probably all most familiar with medical studies that make use of the scientific method. We have probably all heard (more than once) about blind studies in which one experimental group is administered a new medicine while another group is not. The researchers are looking for differences between the two groups that are unambiguously attributable to the treatment. So the scientists have gone through the mental exercise of hypothesizing that a medicine will cause an effect in patients and then designing an experiment to demonstrate conclusively that the medicine does or does not cause the anticipated effect. Because some results may be psychosomatic, the group not receiving the treatment is not told that they are the control group and may be given a placebo (for instance a pill that looks like the real medicine but is not). This is called a blind study. However, because the treated group may respond psychosomatically because they know they are being treated with the experimental medicine, they may not be told so either in what is referred to as a double-blind study. These scientists are going to great lengths to be certain that the effects that they see or measure between the two groups are the result of the treatment alone. They are using the scientific method to ensure the accuracy and reliability of their results and thereby avoid misinterpreting the results of their experiment because of unforseen effects or by studying one variable when some other variable or variables are actually producing the measured results.
In a similar way, in establishing whether or not a rock contains gold, we must take steps to ensure that the results of our assay accurately reflect only the presence or absence of gold. We generally do three things during the analysis. First, we carry a blank through the entire analysis, treating it as though it were a sample by adding to it all of the chemicals that we add to the real sample in the course of the assay. In this way, we would measure any small amount of gold that we might inadvertently add to the sample because we would also add it to the blank as we add the chemicals to them both. Ideally we want to measure zero gold in the blank, indicating that we have been very clean in our analysis. If we do measure a small amount of gold in the blank, we subtract that same amount of gold from the unknown sample result, thereby carefully monitoring this contamination and correcting for it.
Secondly, we carry a standard along through the analysis. This is a natural sample, similar to the unknown, in which we already know the gold content with high confidence. At the end of our analysis, after treating the standard like just another unknown sample, we expect to find the certified amount of gold in the standard, indicating that our assaying method was an accurate one (precious metal standards are available from the Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology as described inside the front cover). And finally, we analyze more than one replicate of a sample, carefully assessing the variation in results between the duplicate or triplicate determinations of gold in a given sample to ensure that we can repeat our results time after time and getting a measure of how precise our analysis is. After having taken these precautions during our analysis we have high confidence that we know the concentration of gold in the unknown sample. We have monitored the analysis for inadvertent contamination by including a blank, we have verified the accuracy of the analysis by including a standard (or even several different standards), and we have demonstrated the reproducibility of our method. We can further assure ourselves that we have the proper answer by conducting the analysis by two or more entirely different methods. All methods should give similar results.
Final Advice
Before investing money in any mining-related endeavor, seek advice from a knowledgeable friend or hire a consultant to help you assess the risks inherent in the venture. Spending a little money on a consultant in the beginning may save a lot of money in the long run.
If you are having material assayed, take it to a reputable laboratory (make some telephone calls to mining companies, state geological surveys, the Better Business Bureau, etc.). If you think that you have found samples that contain ore-grade concentrations of precious metals, have them re-assayed at a second commercial laboratory to confirm the results; a significant investment may hinge on these numbers. If the two laboratories do not agree within some reasonable margin of error, after you have provided them with identical, carefully split samples, seek a third, fourth, etc., until you are satisfied that you know what the concentrations are with high confidence (samples can be submitted for assay to the Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology, see inside the front cover).
While many are attracted to mining because of the potential to obtain riches from rocks, prospecting or investing in mining is an expensive and risky venture. It is often said that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. But in this business, there are indeed some valuable ore deposits left to be discovered, so proceed with great care and assistance, if necessary. Be systematic, apply liberal doses of common sense, and control your "gold fever."
Some Classic Indications of Scams
Although exceptions could occur, the following are typically indications of a scam rather than a legitimate orebody. Be cautious if you hear any one of these:
"You must use a proprietary or nonstandard technique to assay the ore."
(Standard analytical techniques unquestionably detect ore-grade precious metals in all geological materials, such as rocks, soils, or water. Fire assay, neutron activation, inductively coupled plasma-mass spectrometry, and atomic absorption spectrophotometry are standard techniques that, when properly performed, yield accurate assays of gold in ores.)
"There are not only gold and silver but also platinum group elements in the ore."
(Most ores do not have substantial quantities of both platinum and gold. Other platinum group elements, including ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, osmium, and iridium, rarely occur in economically significant quantities in gold deposits.)
"This deposit is so large that it will upset the world market when it is mined."
(Most legitimate large discoveries are bought by major mining companies, not peddled to individual investors.)
"Nearly all samples analyzed have ore-grade concentrations."
(Most ore deposits have pockets or zones of unprofitable waste rock.)
"The ore occurs in rocks, sediments or other materials that rarely, if ever, contain ore in other places in the world."
(We know of no significant precious metal deposits in what appear to be unaltered cinder cones, unaltered lava flows, playa sediment, brine, or groundwater.)
"The ore is substantially higher grade than most ores."
(It is rare to find substantial tonnages of ore, say more than a few thousand tons, containing more than $300 worth of precious metal per ton.)
"All the samples taken during exploration were sent to the assay laboratory."
(Prudent exploration geologists will save splits of the samples from drilling, trenching, and examining old underground workings to check the assays and to further investigate where the precious metals occur in the rocks.)
"Reserves of over a million ounces of gold have been discovered, but few, if any, exploration holes have been drilled into the deposit."
(The term "reserve" has legal meaning with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and should only be applied when there is a high degree of confidence that the stated grade and tonnage of the ore and the total recoverable quantity of gold are known. Generally hundreds of exploration holes are drilled and thousands of samples are assayed before being able to define a reserve of a million ounces of gold.)
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Conversion Factors
1 part per billion (ppb) = 1 nanogram per gram
1 part per million (ppm) = 1 microgram per gram = 1 gram per metric ton = 1000 ppb
1 metric ton = 1000 kg = 2205 pounds avoirdupois
1 ounce per ton (troy ounce per short ton avoirdupois) = 34.286 ppm
1 troy ounce = 31.10 grams = 0.06857 pounds avoirdupois
1 pound = 16 ounces avoirdupois = 14.583 troy ounces = 453.59 grams
1 assay ton = 29.167 grams
NBMG Standards
A number of precious metal standards, useful for validating results from commercial laboratories, are available from NBMG. These include gold, silver, and platinum-group element standards in several rock-types and concentrations. Call for prices and availability.
Assaying Services at NBMG
The Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology provides assaying services to Nevada residents and prospectors. Samples can be submitted for the analysis of gold, silver, platinum-group elements, and other constituents if the sample is from Nevada and the individual is a resident of Nevada. Price lists are available from the Publications Sales Office or the Geochemical Laboratory on request. Several reputable commercial laboratories operate in Nevada and elsewhere.
Continuing Education at the University of Nevada, Reno
The Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology periodically conducts a two-day fire assaying shortcourse through the Department of Continuing Education at the University of Nevada, Reno. Call (702) 784-6691 for details.
you are dead on, Crissy. I know pump and dumps scam company exec's monitor message boards.
To you longs, I'm sorry, but when I see a company make totally impossible claims, I am going to publicly accuse them of fraud. And this company is as bad as they come.
Anyone see the video on the website? It is laughable. Shows a pic of a generic rock crusher and a beaker with a filter in it.....
Video up on website, is it new? Man, these guys are really laying it on thick. It even featured an investor stating she saw the process in action. As if it were possible to get thousands of dollars worth of pm's from mined over tailings!!! Too funny.
Shades on NMCX, though the video had almsot no content, just fluff. It did show a shot of an ore crusher and a beaker with a filter in in. Whoopie ding.
If this isn't an out and out scam, I'll eat my hat.
OT: Wow, you're right, toad. I think they just put that video up.
Interesting as it says their first targets are in Idaho and New Mexico. Yet, an email response to an investor was posted just today on the WNCP board. The guy said the current "mine" is in Cali, called Mineral Nountain. But another poster has tracked down two, one was in Idaho. Neither had ever heard of WNCP.
Previous pr's had spoken of a facility called Willow Run, in Nevada, and that it would be up and running some time go. Never happened.
Toad. Thanks for the compliment.
I do know that I'm not the only one who reported this company to the SEC. However, two points come to mind. One, they are aware of what's going on, and don't want to do anything till the Furlong/Pietrzak proceedings are concluded. Or, two, they simply have less interest in investigating non reporting pink and grey sheet stocks.
By the way, go check out WNCP. They too are claiming to have incredibly rich tailings......but with far less info provided to the investor than even NMC has done.
wizeguy, you lie. Read the court documents from the AZ trial, which was your company's only success to date. The original miners recovered 668 oz from about 130,000 tons. Way way below profitable economic levels. And, since NMC has never filed a production report, there is no evidence that they have ever produced even an ounce of gold.
So, what, did this volcanic shift occur in the last 10 years? You spout nonsense, period. Also, someone else claimed that these rich minerals have run off from Phelps Dodge's operations above SV. Another lie, as PD mines no Au or Pgm's in that area. And there are no pgm's above trace levels anywhere in the desert SW.
If you were there, bully for you. Are you qualified to determine what could have been in those dore bars? Are you a geologist? What you saw was a dog and pony show, similar to what other scams like Bre-X have foisted on the public for as long as can be remembered.
PP is a pumpers board, They reject all tough questions about the company and refuse to discuss its sordid past.
Read this, it's about another old scam, OREX, still trading I think as ORXX. The process they were claiming to utilize was invented by a guy named Haber, who ran HABE, maybe still does. It was simply a process that was supposed to work for heap leach mining, and replace the mercury that that porcess requires. It wasn't supposed to be able to get multiple opt of pm's from mined over tailings.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/readmsg.aspx?msgid=22447119
The other scam that I've been helping expose is NMCX. They are using fraudulent assay results from a now deceased guy named Don Jordan, who claimed to have some new fangled process that could recover untold riches from dirt.
Forward that to the SEC. They are lying. Period! Without knowing the history of that mine (since no info has been found on it), I can guess that no more than 50,000 ounces of gold (if it was a gold mine) was extracted in the first place. Now, this company, without offering any proof, is claiming 2 mm ounces. If that were true, the market cap could approach $1 bn or more.
The only thing this company is mining is investor's pocketbooks.
gump, take him off ignore.....get your ticker checked, then clink on his board. Don't let your wife see, tho: http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=1450
Della, here's the dirt on ole Shepp:
By: joecart2
28 Dec 2004, 12:40 PM EST
Msg. 15839 of 59754
Jump to msg. #
NMC Management - Chairman & CEO
Michael D. Sheppard, MBA, CSA
Over thirty years experience leading companies in various industries such as medical devices, financial services, toys, gifts, music, publishing, metal fabrication, and engineering ( ALL were extremely PROFITABLE! ) Most recently, he orchestrated the startup of Atkinson Technologies introducing an innovative mobile IV system no longer dependent upon gravity. As President of New Life Corporation of America and the National Community Foundation, led a relatively unknown organization to national prominence serving 21,000 financial professionals in just six years! Nationally known speaker and Certified Senior Advisor on financial matters having addressed such prestigious organizations such as the National Organization of Estate Planning Attorneys and the International Organization of Registered Investment Advisors. As CEO of Kidpower Toy Co., his charge was to take them public and, in the process, achieved record profits and accomplished a similar turnaround at Quality Industries. As President of World Bible Society and Silver Bells Music, he established a distribution network in excess of 100,000 outlets with a 56% gross margin and then brokered its sale to Thomas Nelson Publishing where he served as President of the Mass Market Division and as Vice president of Gifts. Worked his way through college and earned an engineering degree and MBA. Served Firestone as Coordinator of Training and Development for 48 North American plants and as Division Manager for 1500 employees and a $100,000,000 operation. Possesses a strong desire to give back to the community, served on several boards including the American Cancer Society, United Way, The Family Institute (Focus on the Family), America 21, Physicians Resource Council, and the Exchange Club. Mike was honored by President Clinton for his raising over $400,000,000 supporting humanitarian efforts worldwide and has served President Bush on the Republican Presidential Roundtable. He was recently invited by Senator Frist to represent Tennessee on the Republican Senatorial Inner Circle . Devoted Christian and family man for 39 years. He also finds time to play a little customer golf and a whole lot of tennis!
And an excerpt from http://ragingbull.quote.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NMCX&read=15641 on RB board is this (more dirt in that post as well):
Michael D. Sheppard, new CEO, bio as per NMCX webpage
http://www.nevadaminingcompany.com/showpage.ww?page=bio
links to related info mentioned in bio:
new life of america dba national community foundation
http://www.natcf.org/
forbes article, re: above;
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/0920/6407180s1.html
consent/cease and desist, etc, re: above;
http://www.state.me.us/pfr/sec/Orders/NationalCommunityF_CO.htm
http://nasconet.org/public.php?pubsec=4&curdoc=2150
dogpile of info, re: above;
http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/New%2BLife%2BCorporation%2Bof%2BAmerica%2Band%2Bthe%2BN....
kidpower toys?, search returns no active website, no such public company, filings, or SEC existence
http://www.kid-power.com/
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=kidpower+toys§ion=Entire+Website&sort=rank
------------------ >>
The third and fourth links work and are about the C&D. Lower down, is a link that simply shows no web info at all on Kid Power, the co that Shepp supposedly ran some time back.
A google search shows nothing on his supposed recent start up company: http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=Atkinson+Technologies
and a hoover's search: http://www.hoovers.com/free/search/simple/xmillion/index.xhtml?query_string=Atkinson+Technologies&am....
nothing on silver Bells Music as well:
http://www.hoovers.com/free/search/simple/xmillion/index.xhtml?query_string=Silver+Bells+Music&w...
So, except for some hearsay in that company bio, all we know about Shepp is that he was conning some poor Christian folks.
Crissy, unfortunately the SEC rarely goes after non reporting pinkies like WNCP. Furthermore, based on the below notice, I'm thinking the stock is even worse, a grey sheeter. It may be that they've never even gotten a market maker to sign off on a 15c2-11 in order for a market to be made: http://www.pinksheets.com/quote/quote.jsp?symbol=WNCP.
I helped expose another scam a while back. It was a purported oil stock, but kept changing symbols, and claiming nonexistent JV's. Still barely trades, but all life seems gone...no more gullible public to foist the pumps on. Follow FOGL-AKOL-TWOG---ILGY? read my posts at AKOL board, or on RB the last of the story is at TWOG board.....That one was so bad that the CEO got nasty after I sent him an warning email with some tough questions, that he couldn't answer.
That response is pure fluff. They've already put out bogus news releases. Ask him what happened to the project that was supposed to be producing oodles of money per month? Ask for assay reports from reputable independant labs, not their own in house one. Ask for site coordinates, so we can look up the property, or properties. or at least their locations. Ask for a geologist's report. Ask him why the mines were abandoned if there's really such incredible value in the waste tailings. Ask if audited financials are coming. Ask about the patent.
I already know the truth about tailings and their value if reprocessed, so I won't be bothering to contact the guy. But you all need to know for yourself if this is all a big con.
Count me in, gump. I'm now a member of the Screen Actor's Guild after I got hired as a climber for a clip in an upcoming Chevy commercial. I've already got the story line in mind. You play Sasquatch snatching a babe out of the spring, and I'll come down out of nowhere ( the treetops) and rescue the fair maiden....
Do tell!! Where do I sign up for a cut of the windfall. Just be my very existence? Whoopie!
Crissy. I had also searched a few days ago, and only came up with the same MMM as did you. But there could be another old mine somewhere....
Regardless, you are on the right track. There is no tailings pile on earth that is capable of having the amounts of pm's as this company so fraudulently states.
In fact, the original ore, if it were from a surface mine, and processed via heap leaching, could have been profitable if it were at a grade as low as .02 opt Au.
Or, if it were an underground mine, much more expensive to operate, maybe profitable at levels of .25 opt or so.
And no operation, however inefficient, would have left behind much valuable product.
Next, if there really were some new fangled chemical procedure for obtaining minerals left behind, it makes sense that the majors would be utilyzing it....not some podunk unreporting stinkie pinkie.
Why do you persist in talking about a mythical reset, when the merger is over and done with? Maybe eventually it will dawn on you that it ain't gonna happen. Same with CMKX, your goose was cooked long ago there.
Found some info on rhodium production, by one of the largest PGM producers: http://www.northam.co.za/investors_media/presentations/04_08_2005/preliminary_results_presentation_f...
It shows that, in 2005, they produced about 20,000 ounces of Rh from their large scale operation.
compare that to NMC's claims of multiple opt of Rh and even higher Osmium, and have a good laugh at how implausible is the idea.