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COOP, WMIH, WMI, Escrows are tied together. Why don't people understand this??? So yes, we talk about them all because they are intertwined. Why is it so hard for some to understand the connections? It's very bizarre. Plus I contend that, when escrows do get paid, many retailers and hedgies will load up on COOP. It's a great investment and when the escrows do get paid COOP will go through the roof going forward. Understand? Geesh?
BTW. Royal dude appears to be banned? Why? Because he was too pro escrow? Can someone look into this or are all the mods now naysayers?
Update: Judge Naomi turned 80 on Valentines Day. Great day to be born. We love you Judge Naomi. Happy 80th!
Judge Naomi will soon be 80 and wants to retire so she will move expeditiously now to wrap up Libor. I expect something for us next month before depositions are due.
https://ballotpedia.org/Naomi_Buchwald
Split T may be right with his payment guess of a few weeks possible. Thanks for your efforts here. I agree that we could be much closer to payment than most realize. It's all about Libor. We have what I consider to be a great judge who will want this resolved asap. Then once Libor settles things will get very interesting with the WMI assets, bank payment, and much much more. I feel sad for those who didn't release. My heart pumps piss for them.
Look at this list of WMI subs! Wow.
Thanks i prelude and Split T.
Could be a false alarm.
Oh well. Fact is WMI assets are safe and sound and ready for disbursement when the R closes soon. Lets get Libor closed.
Thats why Dimon and Bair wanted the WMI holding company included in the deal. Luckily congress denied them. Dimon is a parasite. He knew all about the WMI assets and mineral rights because they had to open the books for him when he offered to buy Wamu. He wanted that more than the bank.
So glad we released!
If all this is true it proves WMI had enormous assets and this will all be revealed when the R closes.
No wonder Bair and Dimon wanted the holding company so badly! The mineral rights alone could be over a trillion.
Denke was right.
AJ HURT preferreds are worth $10mm each! Times 1000 is $10B just in preferred stocks.
AJ HURT is a huge company.
If WMI merged/bought them in 2022 this proves WMI does have hidden assets that are viable alive and well.
Very interesting. Gotta do some more reading. Thanks all for unearthing this.
Thats a huge company.
The Hurt Company : RelaDyne
https://reladyne.com/hurtco
https://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Houston/a-j-hurt-jr-incorporated/30866705.aspx
From bop:
There is a presumption that on or before the final release date in March 2012 JPM knew assets belonging to WMI were among those the FDIC seized, and therefore that JPM would have to pay for them, and $ would go to WMI.
Accordingly, if Jamie Dimon or his minions beneficially own any WMI legacy benefit even if he/they can't be prosecuted for insider trading (I believe the 10-year statute of limitations expired in 2022) the DOJ can and should ask Judge Walrath for the equitable remedies of disgorgement/civil forfeiture. Quote from: epo78741 - So what in your honest opinion is holding things up? Quote from: CSNY/Alice Griffin bankruptcy Attorney - As a preliminary matter, I think the WMI assets have been bifurcated into the JPM portion and the private equity (i.e., MBS portion) and that these portions have different timelines.
JPM will pay for WMI assets when it settles with the FDIC, and that settlement must come when the receivership is pretty far advanced (virtually closed), which means LIBOR. (Again, JPM owes no payment to WMI; it owes money for WMI assets to the FDIC, which I believe JPM will pay to WMI at the FDIC's direction.)
As to why JPM hasn't paid already, one reason is obvious: why part with money before you have to? There's another reason, in my opinion. As background, about three years ago the statute of limitations on insider trading was extended from five to 10 years. We discussed this at the time. This was a surprise to Wall Street and I understand the Trump administration opposed the extension. This means that any JPM person who bought and released in 2012 were vulnerable, and I cannot believe this was not a concern for any JPM person who owns WMI legacy assets or WMB bonds. As long as the assets were valued at $0 there would be no prosecutorial interest in whether there was an insider trading case and the wise thing to do would be to wait out the statute.
LIBOR means there will be payment on both the WMB bonds and the WMI legacy assets, and essentially will resolve all the major outstanding issues in the receivership, in my opinion. That means JPM will have to pay up. I don't know that the estimated $800B in MBS will also be disclosed at that time; I think that depends on whether the players have the right opportunities for deployment of those assets.
Back to JPM, once LIBOR is resolved the FDIC can and will compel payment from JPM for an omnibus settlement and that will include WMI giving a release to the FDIC.
The LT markers were cancelled as wwhathe said.
But what weren't cancelled were the escrow POSITIONS. Big difference. As I said, our escrow positions are still on the lists as evidenced by the Libor Bondholders settlement when they contacted me about payout mistakenly because I did not own bonds but am on the escrow position holders list.
Coatttails
NDT, the more I think about this the more sense it makes. Why would a billionaire decide to start selling off hundreds of millions of his stock rather than just leaving the stock to his heirs? Because he thinks an upcoming event will likely tank the stock and he will lose millions. People do this all the time. It's insider trading in a way, but allowable under SEC rules.
We are close to something. Hold2wm and split T may be right. I like our chances.
NDT, exactly right. $150mm is a lot of cash to raise for someone who already is a billionaire. So why now? Why does he need so much cash? And more sales to come. This is just the first.
If you believe the bank has already been paid for and the payment is now invisible in the receivership until closed after Libor, that means there is more JPM payment to come very soon. I say that is for Libor. The FDIC has sued on behalf of the banks for $400B (the FDIC will get about 10%). Whatever the settlement is, it is still going to be a lot of money, likely at least 100B. That will reflect on the JPM stock price. It has to. So he is smart to sell some shares now. I also believe that's why we get bashers on the boards. They are JPM shareholders and hedgies, terrified that the stock price will tank on any such payment.
But it's ludicrous that being a naysayer on a stock board could possibly change the outcome. I laugh about this. It is what it is. Nothing they can do or say will change the outcome.
I agree with hold2wm that the Libor settlement will be at least 100B. I think it is more likely much more than that. How it gets divided up is another story. But I think we are getting very close to the settlement. Dimon's sale is further evidence that we are close.
IMO, we will get payment this year. As Split T said, something may be weeks away. I may be wrong because our world is so unbelievably corrupt now. But again..........Coattails!
Hold2wm's latest Libor prediction.
Thanks to him for his continued research into Libor for us.
He thinks Libor will settle for at least $114B and that could be done soon, maybe before Apr14, but at least by EOY.
I would say that if they settle for 114B our escrows could get between 50-80B. BP posters on this think 75 25 to the end of course. That would give Ps 4-6x I'm guessing. I am being conservative.
Also, way back when, Rosen said that escrows only chance to get any money might be from Libor. Well he may have been partially right back then.
My feeling is once Libor settles and those funds are distributed, the receivership can close and the big waterfall can begin. That's what the big boys are waiting for. Did JPM already pay $300B for the bank (to avoid yrs of interest) and those funds are now "invisible" (per bop) until the R closes?
On another note, Judge Buckwald being 79 may relate to many of us older investors who have waited 16 years, and she may want to make this right so we can live out our remaining years with just restitution for the wrongs that were perpetrated against us in the wrongful unjust 5th amendment taking.
Interest rates and home insurance are sky high now which keeps many out of the mortgage market. We need a new administration. Then things will boom.
COOP gets 2.5% of Libor so that will help sp bigtime. Say Wamu estate gets 50b. Thats 1.25b for COOP.
This will be a huge year.
Why don't you just ignore me? I post others BP opinions here because I've been asked by several to do so here. You are just upset that astock will not allow you to rejoin BP as you have tried to. Astock is right on banning you there.
Do I attack you for your nonsensical posts even though you are one of the most useless posters here? No. You never contribute anything of value to the readers. You are useless on this board.
But...I am now putting you on ignore. Welcome to my illustrious list of naysayers.
Hold2wm's latest Libor prediction.
Thanks to him for his continued research into Libor for us.
He thinks Libor will settle for at least $114B and that could be done soon, maybe before Apr14, but at least by EOY.
I would say that if they settle for 114B our escrows could get between 50-80B. BP posters on this think 75 25 to the end of course. That would give Ps 4-6x I'm guessing. I am being conservative.
Also, way back when, Rosen said that escrows only chance to get any money might be from Libor. Well he may have been partially right back then.
My feeling is once Libor settles and those funds are distributed, the receivership can close and the big waterfall can begin. That's what the big boys are waiting for. Did JPM already pay $300B for the bank (to avoid yrs of interest) and those funds are now "invisible" (per bop) until the R closes?
On another note, Judge Buckwald being 79 may relate to many of us older investors who have waited 16 years, and she may want to make this right so we can live out our remaining years with just restitution for the wrongs that were perpetrated against us in the wrongful unjust 5th amendment taking.
Ndt, my plan exactly.
You have esp? I already have a ranch chosen. Need Libor asap!
We are in for scary times people.
LIBOR settlement is near. Start getting your affairs in order just in case of a payout because it could happen when you least expect it.
This is my order:
Since my funds will go into an IRA, immediately I will transfer enough money into my checking account to pay off all debts on day one. Boom, gone!
Then I will line up a financial counselor and Tax advisor asap. I am already starting to look into that.
If the money is substantial which looks likely, it would be good to have an LLC with an obscure name, not your own. Do it now. It's very easy to set up with your state. Then any properties you buy etc can be in the name of your LLC, or trust as well.
In the future the government could take our bank assets, so I'd get a big Liberty safe, bolt it to your floor in the house and load it up with gold and silver. Ammo too. Start hoarding cash. You can only draw out less than $10K at a time or it gets reported by your bank.
Buy hard assets! Houses, vehicles, etc. The gov can take our bank accounts someday but hard assets would be difficult for them to get at.
Have one person you can trust 100% with your life and give them access to what you are doing. Make sure you can trust them because they could wipe you out! Money changes people. Get your beneficiaries in order. Have a list of your accounts and important numbers and passwords etc. Make sure this is available to your trusted person especially when you travel in case something happens to you. While we all think we will live to 100, we just never know....
Take care and be very careful. Make these decisions carefully. Let's hope we get some money and have to deal with these things! Read books like "sudden money".
Never tell anyone of your new found wealth except close family and your trusted person. People will be tripping over your sidewalk trying to get at your money!
Split T, "Some payouts may occur in the next few weeks".
I agree this is possible because jpm will Not want to commence with Libor depositions. No way. That would be suicidal and they may have more staff jumping off buildings. That date is 4/14. So any time between now and then we could see the settlement. Theyd be stupid not to settle. They may be crooks, they may be arrogant, but they are not stupid.
Our brokers have our W9s on file too. So your info will be verified before you will get a distribution. If the W9 needs to be updated they will contact you at that time prior to the distribution.
Everyone should go to their brokerage accounts to be sure their info is correct, address, etc. Also check your beneficiary info. Don't leave your newfound wealth to someone you no longer like! LOL
So why did the UWs spend a ton of money and send a team of lawyers to that hearing if there was no money forthcoming??? They know far more than we do, so that was further confirmation that money will come back. Big money. The FED would love to get 400B pumped into this failing economy so they will push for this Libor settlement to happen. ASAP!
Digit, it sounds like you don't visit here often as this Libor thing has been discussed nonstop.
Apr 14 is the deadline for deposition filings to the Judge Naomi Buckwald's court. That's big. Very big. The discovery must be done by Oct 4. It's complicated. JPM is on the hot seat now with the depositions. Jamie needs to worry that he is not implicated. He could be charged criminally. That's why it is likely this wraps asap or he is in trouble. That's why I think Dimon has been sucking up to Trump, because he sees him as being the next pres and wants to try to get back on his good side.
the judge seems tough and at 79 yrs of age i doubt she is intimidated by Dimon or anyone else.
The WAMU/WMI estate gets between 50-90% of the settlement depending on who you talk to. The FDIC sued on our behalf along with ~20 other small banks for $400B. So if JPM BOA settle for $100B, we would get anywhere from 50-90B. I'm guessing the low end. But 50B is a lot. The BP people think everything is 75 25 which would make Ps worth 5K and Qs around 11 bucks if they settle for 100B and we get 50B.
So of course this is speculation. Nobody knows exactly what will happen. We can just make educated guesses and hope for the best.
"was seized and sold
to JP Morgan Chase.", but never paid for!
Ohhhh, its coming.
Not much happening as we wait for Libor to wrap up. Could be any time from now till eoy.
I dont see it being much longer. Depositions to be filed by 4/14. Is Dimon stupid enough to let this go to trial? Doubt it.
Coattails
91-1653726
Ron may be right, as the commons normally get any bk settlement money.
Bop, hold2wm, dmdmd, etc all feel strongly that it will be 75 25 to the end.
I see both sides and am fine either way.
Its hard to fathom the hedgies allowing commons to the party and then giving them the bulk of the money.
But 2.5 par would be sweet so lets see what happens.
It will be interesting to see how the Libor settlement gets divided. That will tell the story for the rest of the money.
Dimon's bank is the government's bank.
He will slither out of trouble like the snake that he is.
But, Libor will require payment regardless. 100b is nothing for jpm to get out of this mess. I say at least 100b is a 100% certainty.
The banana republic of america.
Good post here bankjob.
No doubt Sheila and Jamie boy thought they had WMI included in their Thursday night heist. Such scum.
So for those who dont understand, still, the WMI assets were not included in the deal. Thats where our big money is. The numbers are staggering.
Libor should be settled soon. Jamie knows the heat is on. I bet there are behind the scenes negotiations now with the hedgies as to what settlement will be acceptable to them. I expect 100b.
The Fdic will not get the 400b they sued for.
The mineral rights are astronomical. Denke was right.
Once the assets are released the minerals will be uncovered. Gas, oil, coal, gold, silver, it's all still there. $800B could be a gross underestimate of asset valuation. Bop thinks a P could eventually be worth $3MM ea. It's possible! This will take years to sort out. For now we get Libor up next. JPM must pay for the bank, and may have already done so if bop is correct and it is deemed "invisible" in the FDICR. This could be a very big year for us escrow holders and COOP. I also believe that when escrows are paid, many will invest into COOP/WMIH which will cause the stock to soar.
Coattails
goodie, JPM cannot get out of this mess and the hedge funds will see to it. Is Bonderman going to say, Oh well, so I lost $4B plus interest for 16 years to JPM, no big deal.
Not bloody likely! This is a huge conundrum for Jamie. We shall see how Libor shakes out. Then the real chit will hit the fan! Big money. We 8,500 retailer peons only get 30% of the bounty. Hedgies get 70%. Anyone that really believes they will just walk away needs to get their head examined.
Coattails
The bank valuation was $300B. That is likely what is held as "invisible" in the receivership and will be payment in full by JPM. Again for the umpteenth time, the $1.88B paid by JPM was an administrative fee. So please, enough of the ridiculous notion that it was payment in full for the bank!
Now, WMI assets totaled at least $400B. It is more likely $1T if you take into account all assets and minerals.
So bop and her hedgie source are likely right that the total coming back is $800B and maybe more.
Key dates now are 4/14 and 10/4. The key question now is, Jamie, do you feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?! Your robbery of WAMU because they wouldn't sell to you for $8 per share is coming to an end. LIBOR is just the start.
To the naysayers.
Too bad about you!
Too bad you dont own escrows.
Too bad you didnt release.
Too bad you waste your time on this negativity 24 7.
Too bad you only get paid a penny per post.
And oh yeah
Too bad about you.
That 30b he found in 2012 must be returned to WMI/us. Plus interest. He screwed up not returning it back when he found it, but Walrath never compelled him to do so.
Bop believes jpm has paid in full and that the money is in the FDICR, but it is currently "invisible". It will see daylight once Libor concludes...2025 at the latest but I agree with hold2wms assessment that it will be settled this year......likely before Rico kicks in. Personally Id prefer to see Dimon in an orange jumpsuit for putting us all through 16 yrs of hell.
Talk on BP about the 30b Dimon "found".
He might want to return it to the WMI estate? We shall see. I wouldnt hold my breath. He will deal with his theft at the pearly gates....wouldnt want to be him.
JPM to rebuild Ukraine using WMI asset money?
$1T...wonder how much of this new funding effort may be from our money?
And did they do this "humanitarian fund" to get preferential treatment from the administration on our case, Libor, etc.?
I wonder. And Blackrock involvement when they are a large COOP investor?
Hmmm. I would think the Fdic still would want to proceed with Libor to get their cut. Unless the government says back off now!
https://eraoflight.com/2023/07/25/blackrock-set-to-rake-in-1-trillion-rebuilding-the-destruction-they-financed-in-ukraine/
Can you pm it? I dont think thats the one. She talked about her source in this one.
Bob to be honest I had my doubts until Libor came onto the scene.
If we get the settlement I think we now will, we will be north of par. Once that litigation concludes I think many things could come, like bank payment, asset money retained earnings, etc. And if minerals happen escrow holders could buy their own towns.
But nothing is definite till we see it in our accounts. Banana republic