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MMOY: All in One's have a lot of new features...
It used to be all about few cords, one unit. People liked that well enough. But todays all in ones feature touch screens. Can tilt horizontally to play games or draw on them with something like the MS Pen. The MS Surface AIO even has a custom dial that allows you to do color changes and other functions. They are still executive jewelry to some degree but they do more than just a PC hooked up to a cool monitor.
Anandtech's Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X (375GB) Review
With the Optane SSD and 3D XPoint memory now clearly established as useful and usable, the big question is how broad its appeal will be. The originally announcements around Optane promised a lot, and this initial product delivers a few of those metrics, so to some extent, the P4800X may have to grow its own market and reteach partners what Optane is capable of today. Working with developers and partners is going to be key here - they have to perform outreach and entice software developers to write applications that rely on extremely fast storage. That being said, there are plenty of market segments already that can never get enough storage performance, so anything above what is available in the market today will be more than welcome.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209/intel-optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-review-a-deep-dive-into-3d-xpoint-enterprise-performance
Borusa: LOL such the fan boi...
Intel invented the more cores game not AMD. What AMD did was try to give cores away for free because its single thread performance is sub par. In other words it is competing on price again. How has that worked out for the last 2 decades? Do you do a lot of transcoding? Do you do a lot of 3D design? I don't. Cinebench is fun to run for benchmarks but it doesn't resemble any workload I do. More cores make sense for certain workloads but they make absolutely no sense for the typical consumer or the gaming market. And all this pollyanna nonsense that suddenly there will be more multithreaded apps is just wishful thinking. Intel has been pushing multithreaded apps for a decade and in gaming too. It turns out that there are plenty of common workloads that simply do not scale beyond 2 threads. And it gets even muddier with technologies like Quicksync which is supported in many many video editing suites(including Handbrake). What is the fastest phone out there? Apple's iPhone 7. It has 2 cores. The 8 core phone monstrosities that exist are simply pointless. Same for the PC market. And for gamers, a Core i5 gives tremendous bang for the buck. And if your just messing around with Warcraft a Core i3 with integrated graphics works. So the "AMD strategy" is really nothing new.
IBM Misses Estimates in 20th Straight Quarterly Sales Drop
So much for Powers comeback...
"IBM’s revenue fell short of analysts’ projections, marking a 20th consecutive quarterly decline as growth in new businesses like cloud services and artificial intelligence failed to make up for slumping legacy hardware and software sales.
That sales miss, the first in more than a year, could temper estimates for a return to revenue growth by early 2018. For years, Chief Executive Officer Ginni Rometty has been investing in higher-growth areas and moving away from older products like computers and operating system software. Even as she has shed units to cut costs and made acquisitions to bolster technology and sales, the legacy products are still a drag."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-18/ibm-misses-estimates-in-20th-straight-quarterly-revenue-decline
borusa: I sold mine too...
Did you miss the memo?
Hey Andy...
Chipguy summed it up best. It is an IQ test:. Moar cores or IPC/frequency. You failed the test.
Unkwn: Actually it really didn't do any different than the 8 core Ryzen...
Behind on IPC. Behind on frequency. More cores(6) on this part but the other R5s will be 4 core and lose by more. Basically the same promise as crapdriver: more cores for free. AMD will have to deeply discount these to get share. Which leaves them begging for table scraps like now.
PC Gamer's best gaming pc includes an Intel CPU, Nvidia GPU, and an Intel SSD...
I guess AMD does suck balls.
Amazon
Intel Core i5-7600K
$235.00
VIEW
Dell
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070
$469.99
VIEW
Office Depot and OfficeMax
EVGA SuperNOVA G1 650W
$89.99
VIEW
PCM
NZXT S340
$89.99
VIEW
Amazon
MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon
$139.99
VIEW
Amazon Marketplace
G.Skill Ripjaws V Series DDR4-2666 16GB (2x8GB)
$125.98
VIEW
Amazon
Intel 600p 512GB
$176.37
VIEW
Amazon
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
$16.99
VIEW
http://www.pcgamer.com/best-gaming-pc/
Borusa: R5s are trash...
Not competitive, just like the old driver stuff.
Ryzen launch was rushed. Many bugs...
It will take months to sort it all out apparently...
What's the deal with Ryzen's rather shaky launch? We've asked around and talked to a lot of industry partners, and a few things came up repeatedly. First and foremost, outside of AMD itself, we couldn't find a single person that didn't feel Ryzen's launch was rushed. Motherboard partners appear to have received somewhat final firmware for tuning just a few weeks before the initial rollout. That means they missed out on a lot of time for testing and validation, and it shows.
http://www.pcgamer.com/amd-ryzen-state-of-the-union-address/
borusa: If AMD pulls off a great mobile part good for them...
But mobile is much harder than desktop and the desktop parts lose to 5th generation year old parts on quite a few benchmarks. And Intel's focus has been mostly on mobile. What do you expect happens to a first gen 14nm process facing the third refinement of a 3 year old process with a new architecture?
Elmer Phud: it's not as competitive as the fan boys think...
They are most competitive in the 8/6 core parts which is still a bit of niche. The 4 core parts seem to be well below Intel's because of frequency and IPC. So AMD is back to competing on price which is what they do now. And Intel has many long standing advantages in the retail and business market. Furthermore, the decade of sucking will bite AMD in the ass. Noone knows about AMD or even cares like back in the day. People like Bor are dinosaurs. Even Intel has taken a hit because of the lack of interest in PCs but they still matter a heck of lot more. The easy chance for AMD is in retail. But honestly they aren't offering anything in the key areas there and it will require deep discounts. And I expect that AMD will be well behind in power efficiency, frequency in mobile. And in desktop, you can't just do a one and done approach. You need parts for all in ones. You need parts for micro pcs. You need value parts to compete with Atom. Intel has the breadth to do that. Does AMD? And in mobile Intel has a long running start with all the engineering they did for 2 in 1s. You don't just breeze into a design like say the Surface pro. So its a long road. It will literally take AMD years to make significant inroads. If Intel fails to respond, they have a chance over time. But Intel is fine today and all this doom and gloom talk is premature. My one worry is that Intel had deep relationships with all the major retailers worldwide. But they are cutting back on that type of thing now. The good news is that AMD has too.
borusa: have you ever been involved in the volume part of the pc market?
I have. And while HEDT margins are nice, that is VERY low volume. The bulk of the profit comes from places AMD is still not competitive. And they won't even be there for months. You should do your homework before running your little fan boy mouth...
Unkwn: Doing your best Borusa/Andy Grave impression?
AMD is not exactly comfortable. And 14nm at GF isn't some wonder process. It is pretty far behind Intels. They don't suck as much as they did last year but they aren't exactly embracing greatness. They still rely on price to compete. Their brand is still a value brand. And volume design wins are still currently out of their reach.
borusa: There is always the bottom line...
Intel can achieve 4.2 GHZ base and 4.5GHZ turbo in a high performance desktop part. And 5 GHZ is an achievable overclock on 14nm++.
Borusa: You might want to read this techreport article
"The company introduced this metric using its 14-nm FinFET process as an example. That process can achieve 37.5 MTr/mm², compared to 29 MTr/mm² in what is presumably TSMC's 16-nm process and 30.5 MTr/mm² in GlobalFoundries' 14-nm FinFET technology. Intel says that at worst, its 14-nm process is still 25% denser than what its competitors can achieve, something that traditional n-nm feature sizes alone don't capture."
http://techreport.com/review/31660/intel-defends-its-process-technology-leadership-at-14nm-and-10nm
Andy Grave: your lighting your hair on fire over this??????
First, Charlie has a point about the vague slides. Whether this is unethical or not is up to debate. I can tell you from personal experience that to make any kind of performance claim, legal crawls up your butt. But he has to do some serious backflips to light his hair on fire. Optane caches are interesting but unlikely to be terribly successful. We have had NAND caches available for a long time and they never took off. SSDs are here to stay and this new optane product is not going to displace those. But all of the terrible unethical behavior would be kind of moot if say a reviewer were able to do actual hands on testing...cough:
The Trooper: Yep Skylake had a minor issue...
And this won't affect all that many folks. But this isn't the first problem with Ryzen. There is also the odd 1080p gaming issue. One of the challenges AMD had with this whole thing is that unlike Intel, they switched to a new process and a new generation at the same time. That adds more complexity. Additionally they also brought in a new memory type(DDR4) and a new socket. Intel doesn't do a new process node and architecture at the same time to reduce complexity.
Big shock: Ryzen 7 Chips Are Locking Up PCs
Nothing too crazy but a reminder that Intel DOES do a lot more quality assurance than AMD. Apparently there will be a Bios fix eventually.
"But with Ryzen chips now making their way into desktop PCs, AMD experienced its first major problem. All variants of the Ryzen 7 desktop processors are locking up PCs. The issue is related to FMA3 code, which are a set of streaming SIMD Extensions (SSE) that can greatly enhance the performance of floating point operations carried out by the chips. FMA3 isn't new. AMD added support for the instruction set back in 2012."
http://www.pcmag.com/news/352538/ryzen-7-chips-are-locking-up-pcs-amd-knows-why
Borusa: always glad to point out your folly :P
Borusa: The leaks were right about Ryzen...
So Ravenridge appears to be a basically weaker cpu and probably a pretty competitive integrated gpu. The more things change the more they stay the same.
AMD Ravenridge benchmark leaked...
Fritz Chessbenchmark 4.2
AMD Ravenridge 4c/8t: 11000
Intel Core i5 7500 4c/4t: 14000
Intel Core i7 7700K 4c/8t: 17916
It doesn't appear to be anything special. Granted this is only one benchmark and its leaked and we have no idea what the frequency is, so take it with a grain of salt. But SMT SHOULD give Ravenridge a benefit over the Core i5 but it is still substantially behind a midling Core i5 chip and utterly destroyed by the Intel Core i7 with SMT/HT. This is AMDs volume chip. It doesn't look like AMD is moving up the stack much and will be relegated to value systems if the above is true.
AMD/Intel Core i5 scores here:
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-4-core-8-thread-raven-ridge-benchmarks/
I got the Core i7 7700k score here:
http://proclockers.com/reviews/cpus/intel-core-i7-7700k-cpu-review?nopaging=1
Borusa: if wishes were fishes...
But hey let me hold that football for you!
drjohn: totally agreed...
Intel has done a tone of thermal engineering and worked with Microsoft on touch technologies. AMD has hardly any experience in that area. It would be extremely unlikely for Intel to lose that design. Additionally given the frequency gap at the high power parts, AMD will likely come in significantly below Intel's frequency at low power.
The first Optane drive is out...
At $1520 for a 375GB Pcie card, it's definitely not an enthusiast part. It looks to be a good product for certain server workloads. But it is curious that they are deemphasizing sequential performance. That must be what Chuckie D is crying about.
http://techreport.com/review/31608/intel-optane-ssd-dc-p4800x-opens-new-frontiers-in-datacenter-storage
Borusa: I could count the AMD systems at Best Buy on one hand.
I don't doubt that those will be replaced eventually. But it isn't happening with Ryzen 5. That has no integrated graphics which leaves you needing an add in card and playing for the gaming niche except that cheap gaming systems run at 1080p which AMD sucks at. So I would argue that AMD is actually worse off because Ryzens dies are more expensive than the A series and they will command zero premium. They might have a chance once the integrated part arrives but many of the same brand problems remain and AMD is once again reduced to competing on price.
Koog: True :)
Borusa: Having actual design wins at the big 2...
Might be important. If you had one fig of an idea of how the PC market works. I actually know WHERE the volume is and the real profit is. And it ain't iBuypower.
Retailwatch for March...
I stopped by the local Best Buy yesterday. Not one Ryzen machine available. Not suprising. But then I poked around on HP, Dell's websites. Not one Ryzen based machine. In fact the only retailers that are even doing Ryzen appear to be regional players Frys and Microcenter(they have a strong parts emphasis) and Costco(online only). And the only manufacturers are the smaller boutique vendors like iBuypower and CyberPowerpc. HP and Dell had plenty of notice. But they either chose not to bother or they couldn't get enough volume.
Andy Grave: The number of errors in that piece is quite funny...
Fuad may be breathless and declaring AMD the victor. But he left out quite a few things and he is wrong that AMD wins most of the benchmarks. I won't tell you the rest. But thanks for the laugh :)
Andy Grave: More wishes as fishes...
Someday you will be right. Well probably not.
Drjohn: I am not a big fan of the mobileye acquisition either...
I watched and waited for some kind of reason for the McAfee deal to make sense. I believed them that there were synergies and that security was a big deal. But that was a total bust. Then they bought that stupid watch company. They seem to have screwed up the Altera acquisition. It may work out in the long run but we have a year of nothing happening on that. I was considering jumping back in if INTC fell to 30 but not now.
AMD announced Ryzen 5...
And it is pretty much weaksauce. Pricing is honestly too high and frequency too low. Why would anyone bother with a glitchy platform and lower performance except on some rare workstation like workloads...
Ryzen 5.
Two CPUs with six-core, from $219-$249.
Two CPUs with four-core. From $169-$189.
Retail availability on April 11th.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11202/amd-announces-ryzen-5-april-11th
Andy: Time to go yell at the fast food cashier...
Got that damn cherry pie order wrong again :P
Andy Grave: WTF
I bought a Honda fit sport in 2011. It is an automatic. But it has shifter paddles so that if I ever wanted to shift like the freaking shift version, oh yeah I can. I only found the feature useful once, when I was driving the Sierra Nevadas and needed to downshift a lot. But on the freeways in a real state like California, you are dumb to have manual. You really don't research anything do you... #clueless
Otellini was actually pretty good...
He ushered in the very successful core architecture. I played pool with him once when he was head of marketing. He was an excellent presenter and while he made some mistakes over all Intel did very well under him.
That being said, I happen to agree with Mas. Barret made a huge screw up with the Pentium 4 but BK has let the company slack off and he failed in mobile. Not much evidence of the old Andy Grove style culture there right now.
Ryzen platform apparently sucks at SATA...
It does ok at PCIE(still behind Intel) but gets destroyed on 4k writes in SATA. Just another reminder that Intel has a much more polished platform and better chipsets.
"AMD delivers very respectable performance; however, Ryzen is crushed by Intel's vastly super random performance. As you will notice throughout, Intel has superior random performance. A good portion of the disparity between the two platforms is due to Intel's RST driver and superior chipset. Ryzen has no SATA driver, and thus suffers the consequences."
Read more: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/8073/amd-ryzen-ssd-storage-performance-preview/index4.html
Chipguy: Hit the nail on the head :)
Borusa: There are significant features they will have to add to Naples...
The basic Ryzen die is missing quite a few server technologies. They will probably add 4 channels of memory for bandwidth. Ryzen has 2. Intels HEDT has 4. They will have to add an interconnect(a newer version of hypertransport) to Naples. Intel has that but its not used because current HEDT are single socket. And while Naples is 32 cores it looks to be 4 of its 8 core processors in a multi die module if the speculation is to be believed. That is also the reason I believe they have so many PCIE lanes because it is 4 distinct dies. And they will have to add PCIE lanes to the server part as well because as I mentioned previously they are fairly limited on Ryzen.
As to software optimization and more speed, Intel already has it on its mainstream lineup.It's better at regular work and gaming. The scenarios where you actually need 8 core are pretty much professional video content creation and transcoding, 3D, and hardcore workstation applications. And as to the media thing, you can actually use Quicksync in quite a few consumer video editing programs and get by with a 4 core easily(Handbrake has the option also). And the truth is many video guys use the video card in products like premiere. I am a PC enthusiast but I think its a collosal waste of money to get an 8 core processor from Intel or AMD.