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New hard-disk MP3 players 2003
Confirmed but Not Yet Released
Bantam BA1000. USB2, 2 or 5gb, iPod-size, MP3 line-in encoding.
Samsung YP-900. USB2, 10gig, iPod-size, FM radio, FM Transmit, Line in Recording, about $400.
iRiver IHP-100. USB2, 10/20 gig, 105 x 59 x 18 mm, line-out, optical out, line in recording.
RCA RD2821. USB2, 20gig, Zen-size, $250.
SonicBlue Pearl. USB2, 20/40gig, ethernet docking station, smaller than iPod (but thicker), $400/$500.
Classic CHD1500. 20gb, USB2, WMA support, Line In, 8mb buffer, 3 x 4.3 x 1.2 in, 0.6 lb., internal 9hr battery.
Evolution APED. USB2, color screen, FM radio, docking station, 15GB/$199, 30GB/$269.
GPX TEC9000. 20gb, WMA support, line-in MP3 encoding, FM radio, voice recorder, USB2, internal battery.
GoDot M7170. WMA support, MP3 encoding, voice record, 16mb buffer, FM radio, USB2, 160 X 240 screen, internal rechargable battery, 115 X 76 X 25mm, 250 grams.
Takotek Porter Jukebox. 20gb, WMA/WAV support, line-in.
ATLMultimedia / Eastern Asia Technology Limited (EAETECH) et701. WMA support, 10hr internal battery, 142 x 135 x 31 mm, output 10mw/ch, WOW effect, 132 x 64 LCD.
Polaroid JukeJam.
chunglam.com Nedi. USB2, 4.90in (126.3mm) x 2.75in (74.5mm) x .82in (23.8mm), 7.97 ounces (226g), up to 80gb, output 20mW RMS, built in flash card reader. handpc.com Review
SmartDisk FlashTrax - USB2.0, 30gb, 3.5" LCD, flash memory card reader.
Odyssey resale value around $200
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3011713032&category=11024
Sentinel, I agree. For instance my Odyssey is working fine, 5 days a week (aside from known Firmware problems). But there was a little iPod bashing so the point was just that, there are glitches in some Odyssey units too. However, apple offers a 1 yr warranty compared to e.Digital's 6 month warranty. At least you got a solid year with an iPod.
This guy had 2 different O1000's fail. This is copy n paste from hotmail. He reached me after seeing my website www.dapReview.com
Hi Austin....
Well my replacement O/1000 unit just stopped hooking up to USB2 or USB1 under XP or 98... Last night I ripped some 80 songs straight over to the O/1000 with no problems... Played the unit today on my Saturday outings, came home to do some more transfers, but to my surprise the unit would not get detected at all..... Grabbed my Sony cam corder (it's USB2 or
USB1) and no problem detecting it using the cable from e.Digital, and that was under XP and 98, USB2 or USB1....
Anyway I guess I will shoot off a e-mail to eDigital.... I though I would share this with you.... It's to bad because I was really getting in to this unit... I wish they would offer the source code, so some of the hackers could tweak this unit to its real capabilities..
My want list is..
1. More folder layers, never can have enough, just like memory and money.....
2. Fix the click sound at the beginning of each song... (Check yours again, I may have a bad unit)
3, The Back button to take you back to your last menu select...
4. Backlight on the FM...
5. Volume control on the FM, the sound jumps as you increase the volume..... Unlike the volume for the MP3 play...
6. Play list on the Fly, of course...
7. Longer select for the Backlight to be on, 10 seconds is to short and on all the time is to long, unless your on AC...
8. Song blending would be nice...
9. MP3 tags of course....
Well, I'm sure you can add to this list, and I'm sure you will.....
Thanks for listening, I'm off to eDigital with a nasty email.....
Peter
Latest Odyssey review from dmusic.com
http://www.dmusic.com/forum/gearup/1555-100#159
MrTeatime
Subject: Re: Re: Odyssey 1000 anyone?
Date: February 28, 2003 @ 9:03 AM
Well I have got mine today, i will post a review here..... firstly it looks nice. The radi oreception is terrible, I had a Rio Riot before this that has a radio, and the reception is a lot better on the Rio. I couldn't listen to the radio station I wanted to because of the interference. I don't know if this can be fixed, I hope it can.
Also, the lack of ID3 support is really bad. You have to manually rearrange tracks on an album so they play in the right order, even the PC software supplied doesn't recognise track numbers. Sound quality is so-so, I've heard better.
I hope they release some new firmware soon.
chwdrhed, MicroOS has been around for how many years now? And they are just now thinking that ID3 support is a good idea? Now that's funny. Especially since everything e.Digital says will come true, always does, right?
Sentinel, you said "One's got NOTHING to do with the other. EDIG's troubles are rooted in terrible financial straits. Give them the advertising budget of Archos/Rio/Bantam , and the same retail outlets, and then perhaps you can compare them in terms of how players have sold. ID3 tags have nothing to do with it at present."
So if a company sells an item that is clearly missing features that poeople want, and that the competition allready has, THAT'S NOT A REASON FOR POOR SALES? Of course it is. Try selling a car with no doors and see how successful you would be.
And please, what advertising budget of Archos and Bantam? I've never seen adverising for them, can you show me some? Bantam is direct sales too, just like e.dig, lol..
Sricket:
You said : "my understanding is that the tags will be a fix in the near future."
lol.. e.Digital has promised alot of things that havn't come true. I'll beleive it when I see it.
You said : "Practically every other flash and hard drive player on the market will be obsolete as a result of _consumer demand_."
What does that even mean? Try to make sense next time.
ID tag support is obviously something people want, as you can see by how successfull the competition is in comparison to e.Dig. Practically every other flash and hard drive player on the market support it as a result of _consumer demand_.
Consider how useful it is on the iPod or Zen, as I can browse/play music by Artist, Album, Composer, Song, Genre, etc.. with Odyssey you can play by.. directory. Not very versatile. Is MircoOS holding back developments like this or why would no current or previous e.Digital products support it?
CNET review of the "iPod clone" was surprising.....
I am skeptical about this reviewer's experience with MP3 players because he should have mentioned that the Odyssey can't display ID3 tag information, like nearly all other MP3 players on the market. It's a huge gap in the Odyssey's functionality compared to the iPod, Zen, Nueros, etc. Several people I've talked to ended up buying another DAP on that reason alone.
"device seems almost bulletproof."
That doesn't seem take into account that the face is a single clear piece of PLASTIC. Better keep it in that (ugly) case.
"Our other favorite control is the Back button, which works like the identically named icon on a Web browser, returning you to the previous screen."
Yeah, if it actually worked, like after you select a song, which it doesn't! It only works when navigating directories. After you select a song you have to use the Menu button to exit all the way to the main menu. How did e.dig miss that bug?
"The player is too large to fit into most pockets"
True...and no in-line remote like iPod, Zen.
"Voice navigation is a neat trick, but it's somewhat frivolous since the hardware controls are more practical. "
Exactley, whats the point. Plus, they didn't mention it can only search 85 files at a time, not the whole hard-drive.. so even if this could be useful like while driving a car, really its not, since before it even looks for a song you have to direct voicenav to the appropriate directory and subdirectory.
"eDigital claims that the Odyssey's battery will last for about 1,000 charge/discharge cycles, which translates to about three years of heavy use at roughly one charge per day. When the battery becomes too fatigued, eDigital pledges to replace it for $35"
Hmm... i never saw this on thier webpage or product manual... I guess they don't want to really be held up to such claims.
"But most people looking for a player with this much capacity already have tons of music organized in multiple methods, and rearranging even 10GB of music to the desired directory structure takes hours--trust us. Compared to Apple's iTunes or even average file-transfer software, Music Explorer is a major pain."
Exactley, its overly simplistic and makes you take hours to manually rename and re-arrange your music in the one way e.Digital allows (2nd-tier directories).
Also I clicked on CNET's "Where to buy" link : "The eDigital Odyssey 1000 is not yet available from any of our online merchants." Not even a link to the e.dig etail store.
Keep in mind there's at least 11 new DAPs that are going on sale in the US this year from Bantam, iRiver, RCA, Samsung, Archos, Classic, SonicBlue Rio, GPX, Evolution Technologies, and Poloroid....
So if the main advantage of MOS is power saving/battery life... where are the practical gains in a product like Odyssey? I mean the Odyssey gets about 10 hours, and it has only a simple directory structure interface. The Nomad Zen (USB2.0) is the same size factor and has a powerful ID3 tag database structure, yet gets 14 hours of use per charge. I mean theoretical advantages (of MOS) are nice but is there any existing product that uses MOS where the user would see any benefit from it? Specifically?
After a month of using the Odyssey I have some comments. Note that I am not FOR e.Digital, simply interested in their mp3 player. I think its relevant here because the company's future is somewhat dependant on this product (after hearing the webcast).
I have the Odyssey, iPod, and Zen so I can make a comparison of the best pocket-size hard-disk players. I prefer the Odyssey for use at work on my desk (over the others) because the volume is controlled with the scroller on the top, making it easy/quick to control the volume when I need to take calls, talk to coworker, boss nearby, etc. I plug it in to a set of computer speakers I leave on my desk. The Odyssey seems much better suited for use on a desk than a pocket, because the controls are all on top - and there is no in-line remote. I like the built-in radio, it's good enough to recieve my favorite morning radio show. However I can't record shows off the radio like I can with Zen (with FM remote). I don't use the VoiceNav, no point. The file/directory structure dependance makes me consider this my "simple" player. I like the complete "Mass Storage Device" functionality so I will be able to copy all files from to and from another computer without installing software.
My complaints about the Odyssey : The back button ONLY works when you are navigating through directories. It DOES NOT work after you have selected a song. You have to use the Menu Button to exit all the way to the main menu. Then you have to manually navigate all the way back to whatever directory you were in before selecting another song. I have seen several people comment about this. In my opinion it is THE MOST annoying bug in the firmware. Other problems : occasional stability issues (lock ups; reboot cycles), occasional delays between songs (up to 10 seconds), long initial boot up (13 seconds), no backlight in the Radio screen, Radio can only be adjusted in .2 increments, in the Radio mode the volume can only be adjusted in increments of 3, & VBR files make the track time jump around like crazy. And of course it could *really* use ID3 tag support. I would also like to see a sleep mode, longer "power-off" selection (10 minutes idle is the most you can choose before it powers off), more track details while its playing (total track time, bit rate, whether its MP3 or WMA, ID3), onboard file management, on-the-fly playlists, etc... many functions the other players (iPod, Zen) allready have. Also the e.Digital Music Explorer is overly simply, you can't use it to "move" directories, it tries to copy the directory instead. I have to use the regular Windows explorer to move a directory on the player. The Music Explorer has no renaming utility either, but there is good freeware out there (Filerenamer 1.01 @ http://www.koger.cjb.net). After you copy a directory to Odyssey, they are only sorted in the order they are copied - to get them sorted alphabetically you need to do this manually. It's these little details that count!
Overall the Odyssey is good for *my* purpose at work, but generally I refer people to the Zen for its low cost ($250), sound quality and on-the-fly playlists, or to the iPod for its tiny size & OS simplicity if money is not an issue. Most people who can afford to blow $350 on a DAP (Odyssey) can also do $400 - 500 (iPod). The Odyssey's firmware problems (especially the Back button!) & ID3 function need to be addressed before I would suggest a friend buy this. It's good, but middle-of-the-road considering the competition, and pricey compared to Zen and Archos.
All the specs are side-by-side at dapReview.com
Austin
"Other perks: The Odyssey features a "Back" button (the operation of which is more intuitive than turning the iPod's menu wheel counterclockwise)"
Yeah... if only it worked properly. The back but ONLY works when you are navigating through directories. It DOES NOT work after you have selected a song. You have to use the Menu Button to exit all the way to the main menu. Then you have to manually navigate all the way back to whatever directory you were in before selecting another song. I have seen several people comment about this. In my opinion it is THE MOST annoying bug in the firmware. I'm not holding my breathe for a new firmware but damn this thing needs it. Other problems : occasional stability issues (lock ups;reboot cycles), occasional delays between songs (up to 10 seconds), long initial boot up 13 seconds, no backlight in the Radio screen, Radio can only be adjusted in .2 increments, in the Radio mode the volume can only be adjusted in 3 level increments, & VBR files make the track time jump around like crazy. And of course it could *really* use ID3 tag support, a sleep mode, longer "power-off" selection (10 minutes idle is the most you can choose before it powers off), and more track details while its playing (total track time, bit rate, etc.), onboard file management, onboard playlists, etc... the stuff that the competition allready has.
Cassandra, with thier track record it's hard to figure how they have sustained this show for so long. On a side note - Do you have data about how many Odysseys were acutally "sold out" due to "overwhelming demand"? I have read some people claiming 1000 but where did that number come from? speculation maybe? They made no specific statements in the webcast.
Not everyone is so happy about thier O1000. Mine has been working fine (aside from the known firmware problems) but one person I have been corresponding with has had to send back 2 seperate Odysseys. He said the first one the jog wheel didn't work right, and the 2nd one stopped being recogized through USB and totally died a few days later. Hopefully those problems are not too wide-spread.
Matt (admin) can I post again please? I won't repost, don't need to with Tinroad out. If I have any problems, I will go straight to you...Thank much, Austin
Matt (admin), with due respect, if you look back on the forum I never posted the same message more than 3 times, and I only did that because I was being unfairly targeted by Tinroad despite my message being important to other investors. I have good input to share. To see the level of my involvement, please visit http://www.austinv.com/PDAP.html which is a detailed review of EDIG's product against the current competition. Thank You.
Matt (admin), could you please restore my posting ability. My "infractions" were in the EDIG forum, and my posts were on-topic. If you remember I reposted the same message 3 times because TinRoad (forum admin) deleted them, despite them being pertinent to the discussion. I don't think they agreed with his position. I would like to continue. I have experience with EDIG's latest product that I want to discuss with other investors. Thank You.
(Sorry, I did not use the "Reply" button a minute ago)
Matt (admin), could you please restore my posting ability. My "infractions" were in the EDIG forum, and my posts were on-topic. If you remember I reposted the same message 3 times because TinRoad (forum admin) deleted them, despite them being pertinent to the discussion. I don't think they agreed with his position. I would like to continue. I have experience with EDIG's latest product that I want to discuss with other investors. Thank You.
and only a 180 day warranty, vs. 360 days for the iPod. e.Digital must not have much confidence in those units lasting more than 6 months.
Duhhhh.inkie, at least when I make an opinion I have reasons behind it, and I put them on the table. I like your "because I said so" thing, very intelligent and credible too
Zen.... $270.... Odyssey $350....
moxa... i am curious, you say its the better of the two, have you tried them both? Or based on what? The VoiceNav should have nothing to do with the reading ID3 tags, if you know how they work. they are just bits tagged on the end of the MP3 with fields designated to hold text like "Genre" "Composer" "Album" etc... I think e.Dig might be blowing smoke as to why they didn't have ID3 tag support. I mean they had sooo long to work on the software, and they still couldn't include it in the last revision? as far as whether e.Dig will upgrade the player to support it, that has yet to be seen. We all now about how e.Dig is in getting things out on time, if ever (Silhoette?). VoiceNav could be useful while driving, but you still have to glance at the screen unless you have all the directories and song titles memorized... and with the Zen you can quickly make a whole playlist, right on the player itself, that will last the whole time you are driving and more.
Evolution offers Two Models; 15GB $199, 30GB $269
sounds a little better than $350 for 20gb, no?
http://www.nowevolution.com/press/2003-01-09_APED.html
just a friendly reminder, based on my review, of the merits of the 3 MP3 players, I have had to recommend a player other than Odyssey to everyone who's emailed me. The Zen is cheaper ($270) and the iPod is so much smaller. Odyssey is good, just not enough to stand out with its price.
Released a year and 4 months after iPod the Odyssey is still 30% bigger and doesn't support some standard functions (like ID3 tags). Based on its merits alone I can account for 5 people I've turned away from Odyssey to another player or who have now sent thiers back to get another player. At this price point ($350) the Odyssey doesn't offer enough to make it stand out. The 20gb Zen is available for $270 now and offers superior sound. If you A/B'd them it's apparent. Not a huge difference, but a difference. People here like go on about VoiceNav but its only useful if your blind or handless. lol. anyway the most important factor is to be PORTABLE and the O1000 is the biggest player of the 3 I reviewed.
OT: can someone PM me how to use the ignore function. thanks
Chessplayer. It's not a secret, I do like the Odyssey. It has unique qualities aside from the others. The iPod is also prone to scratches, but on the back surface. HOWEVER, there are dozens of nice, professional looking cases available for iPod. Mine lives in a form-fitting leather case so it doesn't get scratched, and it has a swivel belt clip like you see on cell phones. Works perfect. The Odyssey's only case is the ridiclous one that came with it.
The Zen's _remote_ is cheap plastic. The Zen main unit is solid (all metal) and seemingly scratch proof. You can pocket it with no worry, case or no case.
Regarding the O1000, I would not pocket it without a case bacause the surface of the face is clear glass or plastic and probably easy to scratch. I would always keep it in a protective case but the one included with the player is a POS. I mean thin vinyl and really ugly. It ahhilates the clean design of the Odyssey and makes it look more like a cheap K-mart tape player.
IMO the Zen has the best sound quality, but cumbersome navigation and it takes awhile to get used to the Nomad OS. However once you do there are a lot of search and play options that are not possible with Odyssey.
On the other hand, the O1000 is good for people who don't have a clue about ID3 tags. They can just do the file naming structure the Odyssey requires and be happy with that.
just a friendly reminder, I reviewed the product, not the company's leadership.
JOtteman
i have an Odyssey here in front of me, and iPod, Zen, and some other less important players. even my PCS phone plays MP3s :) (Samsung Uproar)
8-minute memory buffer is not data i can use. the other players have a 16mb or 32mb cache.
replacable battery - where is this documented?
the review is objective based on how it compares to the 2 closest competitors. take it or leave it, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone more experienced with these toys.
anyway i have no position in the company. Personally I think the company's leadership is nearly criminal but they must have a few talented engineers in there.
anyone have real data for the # of units in this production run, or how many are coming in the "next batch"?
players compared, mini-review, pics
http://www.austonia.com/PDAP.html
O1000 gallery
http://www.austonia.com/pics/O1000/index1.html
current and upcoming gigabyte+ players :
http://www.austonia.com/pics/juke/index1.html
let the facts speak for themselves :)
You guys are amusing. You take it personally that I point out an omission in the functionality of the O1000. I didn't design it, I am only observing and reporting. Reading/displaying ID3 tags is a standard feature among MP3 players because that's what people want. Don't believe me? NO problem, run yourself over to CNET or Gear.IGN.com and look through all the reviews. If you don't understand the point, then you're not at all familiar with the portable Mp3 player market, simply put. Any objective review of the device will point this out and it will be of interest to those still shopping for a player. In fact, like the recent post over at dmusic : http://www.dmusic.com/forum/gearup/1555-100#128
Some people see this as a big enough problem that they will buy a different brand of MP3 player instead. So it is a relevant ssue, whether you like me reporting on it or not.
O1000 doesn't support ID3 tags.
The entire indexing structure is based off the file names only. All the other MP3 players on the market now display the ID3 tag information within each MP3 file, like artist, album, track, track #, genre, composer, etc while a track is playing. But the O1000 only uses the file name itself, it does not read the ID3 tag information within the files. It's just not supported by OS apparently.
Also, The VoiceNav feature works off the filenames, so to make it useful, you would need to rename each MP3 filename to the song title only. For instance, many people have thier MP3s named like "The Beatles - The White Album - Cry Baby Cry.mp3" but this would have to be changed to just "Cry Baby Cry.mp3" for VoiceNav to find it. The manual states that the VoiceNav is limited to searching 85 files at a time, so you will need to point it to the artist or album first.
As a comparison, on the two best selling hard-drive pocket MP3 players - Apple iPod and Creative Nomad Zen, you don't have to mess with filenames or directories at all. These players use ID3 tags within each MP3 to index the artist, songs, albums, genres, etc automatically, and they also display the ID3 information of a track while it is playing.
ID3 tag support is industry standard, especially on MP3 Jukeboxes.
>>>Serious Flaw in O1000 design, read:
I have been reading the Osyssey 1000 product manual available on edig's homepage and I found some peculiarities. First, IT DOESN'T SUPPORT ID3 TAGS. The entire indexing structure is based off the file names only! Every other MP3 player on the market right now displays the ID3 tag information in each MP3 file : artist, album, track, track #, genre, composer, etc.. but the O1000 only uses the filename itself. You have to build a directory structure for each Artist, making Album Subdirecties, and then renaming each track to the song title only. Else the VoiceNav won't find them. And the VoiceNav is limited to 85 files per directory!
As a comparison, you don't have to mess with filenames or directories at all on the two best selling hard-drive pocket MP3 players - iPod and Zen, which use MP3 tags to index and display extensive information for each track as its playing.
On a side note, while O1000 does show up as "Mass Storage Device" you still need to use edig's proprietary software to transfer music to the player. And you have to "Stop" the device before disconnecting it from your computer else it won't index properly. This is similiar to the Windows iPod.
Creative found the batteries for Silhouette!
http://asia.creative.com/products/portaudio/cdmp3_slim600/specs.asp
...maybe edig will find the batteries some day!
new pics of o1000!
http://headwize2.powerpill.org/temp/ces03/showfile.php?file=ces2003_north.htm
bottom of page
New pics of e.digital Silhouette made by Dioneer!
http://headwize2.powerpill.org/temp/ces03/showfile.php?file=ces2003_south3.htm
also you can see the same model made by Creative
http://asia.creative.com/products/portaudio/cdmp3_slim600/specs.asp