is waiting for some turnover on these bags I'm carrying!
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Hmmm. That's weird. The headline cut out. This was an old PR (Mar 26), and it said that there were only 7 more trading days till the split.
BTW --- if you bought when that PR came out, you bought ATNP for somewhere between .0045 and .0059...so you have done very well for yourself since then.
However, there is a lot of profit taking today. Buys are only 60%, with about 40% sells.
However, there is a probably a lot more run before the split.
:)
In this case, the divy IS the split. The extra shares that are given out in the split are considered the "dividend."
However, Chris DuBeau has been discussing giving out additional shares for GOTV as well, and that will likely be in the very near future.
I forgot about that. That is another thing to look forward to.
There have been hints to a buy out.
See last paragraph of this news release.
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&cb=1270133402&article=42145707&symbol=NO^ATNP
The O/S is really irrelevant, as long as people are still interested in buying the stock and as long as the volume stays high - both should be in good shape, since this company has a REAL PRODUCT that is attracting new investors constantly.
As far as dilution - well, that is always a concern. But if they are diluting into the company, that just seems like a good thing.
Recently they put $450K back into the company for advertising and promotion - so that just seems like a good use of dilution dollars. That brings in more interest, more investors, and the PPS continues to rise.
I hope you are right. I think it is very possible, given what happened last time (where it went from .0024 to .0295 on the day of the split - MORE than a 10x increase).
There is a buzz about ATNP starting this morning. No surprise.
http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news&rid=122241&catid=140
Weren't you in this stock before the 10 to 1 split?
The people who will be in for both the 10 to 1 and the 5 to 1 - dang...
They will have 50 shares for every 1 share they bought.
If ATNP ever hits the penny after the split (which is not only possible, but VERY possible)....you will make a fortune.
Well, if history and charts mean anything, then regardless of the crash, ATNP will come back, because the trend over the past 6 months is bullish.
The only difference is that the "baggies" are bag holding on a stock which now has a real product, new products in development (and a future launch of the gophone, which will be announced Apr 7), and sales contracts which are being developed constantly.
Oh. There is one more difference. They will be holding 5 times as much stock, which means they will be making 5 times the profit you make when you buy back in after the split.
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Sure, it might crash. You may be right about that. But it might not.
And by the way - if history means anything - those people who sold the day before the last split (which is what you are suggesting you should do) missed out on a MINIMUM of a 300% gain the next day.
The day before the split (9/2) ATNP was at .0024.
The next day (9/3), the day of the split (which will be the equivalent of April 5 for us), the stock opened at .0295 - more than 1000% higher.
Yeah. You would have missed out on that.
Sure, it didn't stay there. It came crashing down to the close, which was .0075 - still 300% higher.
You would have missed out on that too.
But...given that all of this is speculative, you may be 100% right on the money.
I can't argue with that.
I am just saying - history and charts don't support your claim.
If you are a true long, it won't matter.
As a true long, even if it drops 50% after the split, it is bound to go back up at some time during the year...and you will have five times the stock. Not bad.
My experience is that IT DEPENDS.
In most cases, they are pretty effective...because drops of 20% are common, but drops of 40% are uncommon.
So...if you are dealing with a drop of 20%, it is not bad.
But on stocks like this one...where it can drop 40% in a second....yeah, not so much.
If you remember the big drop on ATNP in January, when they missed their first launch (about 40%), my stop loss got me out after a 20% loss...and I bought back in a few days later at .005. Even though it dropped 40%, it did it GRADUALLY...so there was plenty of time to get out.
So YES, I think it is pretty effective overall.
However, you can't have a stop loss on all securities with all brokers.
Yes, it is very unpredictable.
But if you are up, and you want to protect your profits - that is NEVER a bad idea. There will always be another ship leaving port, and now you have some extra cash in your pocket (SO WHAT if you miss out on another 100% gain. Really. I am not being sarcastic. If you worry about money you "could have made" by staying in, you will more likely end up BAG HOLDING when the dip bites you when you are not looking).
However....and this is just my opinion - I don't think we have even BEGUN to see the inflow of investors that plan on making a profit for this split.
Again...that is just my opinion.
If you sell early, and I am right, then you just miss out on some profits.
If I am wrong, then you STILL make your same profit, but I end up bag holding, or lose all much of my profit.
Either way - locking in your profits is never a bad idea, because you WIN either way...maybe not as much.
However....me....I think that this is a GOOD BET that this will continue to go up at least another trading day and a half.
Just my opinion.
If you are bag holding...and then, due to a later run you are able to sell at a 30 percent profit...well, you did pretty good for the year.
Sure, you had to whine and complain (and I don't blame you, by the way)....but eventually you end up doing pretty well.
That's better than Jim Cramer does, and he's on TV.
Well, if he wants to settle on his profits at 10:30 tomorrow, there is nothing wrong with that.
It is LIKELY that there will continue to be a run in this stock until the split at the close of business April 5....but there is nothing wrong with protecting your profits early.
My opinion is that the run has just STARTED. The volume has been so low, I believe that we will see a HUGE influx of buys over the next two days, and we may go up another 100% (or more!).
Just my opinion, though.
Ask at .0084!
Thinning out to .0085. I predict a run in Power Hour!
Yes, but do not be too hard on the people who think a stock will do badly.
Lord knows how wrong I have been about stocks I thought would do well!
(Apparently, he has also bought shares in the stock and is enjoying the ride...so he has apparently changed his mind. I hope he makes a mint...because that means I will too!!!!!)
This is going to go ape s**t tomorrow.
The interest is starting to jump in, and it is 2 full trading days before the split.
I guess there is probably a little less "doubt" as to the ability to be at .01 before the split.
It can (and probably will) happen in a very VERY short period of time.
I turned my back, and we went to .0085, back down to .008, and now the ask is at .0082.
I would not be surprised if we touch .01 today.
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ATNP is the number 2 stock on the chats on the Hot Penny Stock Finder, and it was mentioned in their daily blog today.
http://www.thehotpennystocks.com/Stock-Blogs/TradersElite/index.php?p=46
It starts.
Nice.
Am I the only one that thinks this paragraph is kind of....unusual?
"The service, according to “Eva,” the perky young Asian woman in the demo video sitting in a well-appointed living room, wearing a short skirt, black knee-high boots and checking her Gmail on her large flat-screen TV, renders any Internet site up on the TV.”"
That's A LOT of detail!
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Looked up the writer (David Sims). Interesting. He is a freelance writer and photographer (very talented) living in Istanbul (also interesting).
He certainly paid a lot of attention to "Eva." It kind of reads like the Penthouse Forum letters I read in my adolescence.
Just stalking and avoiding the overwhelming work I have to do.
I am so jealous. I wish I could tell that story! That is awesome, and good for you!
I hear that many people put in outrageous GTC orders hoping that this might happen.
Not a bad plan, actually.
What it means is that there were no sellers up to .05. That is the only way for that to happen.
If you put in a buy order at .05, you will automatically get the best price available.
No one was selling up to .05 - which is why that trade happened.
Keep in mind that the stock opened at .0295 (more than 1000% increase), this was the day of the split, and most people were probably holding on to their shares hoping it would continue to run.
Keep in mind that the day before (9/2) the stock closed at .0024, and then it opened on 9/3 at .0295 - more than 10x higher.
So trading at .05 was only a 40% higher trade than the opening.
It closed at .0075....which is STILL 300% higher than the close the prior day. Yeah....not bad.
If you just bought on 9/2 at .0024, you could have sold in the next two days at 300% OR MORE pretty easily.
And that is THE DAY of the last split.
And now it is trading at .0075 again....only THIS time you have 10 times as much stock.
Not bad.
It is good that you have a plan. Many people make a plan similar to yours --- which is why ".01" is hard to break sometimes.
A lot of people will say it is a "psychological barrier," which is partly true (since a lot of stock market activity is psychological)...but this is often the more specific reason for it - because people have an investment plan that they are sticking to, and their shares are set to sell at .01.
I have no idea why the volume is so little.
It may be something as simple as the current marketing technique. Paying those sites that send out newsletters and emails (i.e. "Tomorrow's Alert will give you big gains!") may be a big reason you get investors attracted to this stock, and I haven't seen ATNP in many newsletters...so that may be the reason.
On the other hand, maybe the newsletters are going to come out tomorrow and Monday.
:)
It is really unpredictable.
For example, I would have normally expected a much larger rise by now...and it may hit ON THE DAY OF THE SPLIT (April 5), in which case you will lose out on the BIG run if you sell before the split.
If you sell at 3:45 PM on April 5, then you might be too late...or you may miss out on the REALLY BIG RUN that happens the next day (which is what happened last time, when it went to .05).
We don't have NEARLY the volume that they had prior to the previous split...so really ANYTHING can happen.
In other words, the lack of BUYING before the split could mean that there might not be a big sell of AFTER the split.
In fact, with the advent of the GO PHONE, and with the potential for other good PRs (new contracts, TV ads, etc), this stock could continue on a slow and steady rise in the Green.
That's a good thing. Slow and Steady means that we don't have a lot of "flippers," who are the ones who cause RAPID UPSWINGS and DOWNSWINGS.
The bottom line - anything can happen. I wouldn't believe anyone on this one.
Make your own strategy and stick to it.
Well, if this stock goes up to .01 before the split, that is a 25% increase.
And then, if the stock goes BACK to .01 at some point in 2010 after the split (which it can, since this company has LOTS going on), your "small investment" could grow tremendously.
FOR EXAMPLE: $500 invested today at .0075.
ATNP goes to .01 and then splits. Now, your $500 is $625.
The new PPS is .002.
In the next year, ATNP goes to .01, and you SELL all shares.
You sold for $3,125.
SO...within 1 year, your $500 went up 625%.
Hmmm. I have to disagree with you, because this sounds pretty good to me.
(And if it only goes up to .005, you still make a HUGE profit - better than you will get at any bank. But you have to have this type of investment strategy and sell when you plan to sell - and not get greedy. I am sure you have been told, "You don't lose if you don't sell." Well, the converse is also true: "You don't make anything if you don't sell.")
We are getting a lot of buying, with only a little selling. That indicates there is some "flipping," but not much. It is mostly consolidation.
There will be a huge run at some point before the split. Not sure when it is going to happen, but I expect a slow GREEN rise until we get to some meteoric run. When that happens, .01 is conservative. .015 and .02 are possible.
My opinion. Good luck!
Yes.
If you are holding your shares on the DATE AND TIME that they are calling the critical point, which is close of business April 5, you can do whatever you want with your shares on April 6.
HOWEVER...you price should decrease by 1/5 on April 6. And then you will get 4 more shares that will be delivered at variable times.
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Keep in mind you will hear about lots of different things that have happened "in the past."
There is no "one way" that splits occur. There are lots of variables in the details.
However, the bottom line is that NO MONEY IS MADE OR GAINED.
The real people who get the benefit of the split are the LONGS....because after a 5 to 1 split, each up-tic is equal to 5 up-tics.
Think of it this way...some people have been in ATNP for YEARS, and are holding stock for both 10 to 1 splits.
That means each up-tic of .0001 is the same as .01 to them (.0001 times 10 times 10).
Here we are hoping this stock will go up to .01....and to those people, it went up .03 just yesterday!!!
Jealous???? I am!!!!!
Keep in mind...those people have held this stock despite it going down on 40% on some days. They have gone through HUNDREDS of new posters on this site complaining about the mods, the iBox, and all of the bashers. They know the names of all the people who post on this stock on the red days, talking about what a "scam" this company is. And now they are reaping the benefits BIG TIME.
AND...if they continue to hold after the 5 to 1 split, each .0001 up tic will be the equivalent of .05!!!! Yes. That is huge!!!
THAT is the benefit of a split. To the longs, it is ENORMOUS.
And since this company has now been PROVEN to have a product...with contracts....with potential growth....it seems to be a pretty good bet to hold long for at least a while.
It is also a good day-trader too!!!!
Yes, well I really appreciate you addressing this. I certainly knew nothing about it - and now I know "something."
Probably enough to make me dangerous.
If I am reading that chart right, if we can break the .01 resistance, we can make a REALLY big run...and .02 is not such a crazy thing. Is that right?
Well that explains why you are saying the things you are saying.
You are incorrect when you say that you have to own the shares 3 days before the record date. This ONLY APPLIES if the EX DATE is 2 days prior - because you have to own the stock PRIOR TO THE EX DATE to get the benefit. This is because the rule has nothing to do with the RECORD DATE. It is the EX DATE which is important - because you have to hold the stock prior to the EX DATE to get the benefit.
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The EX DATE is the date AFTER WHICH you WILL NOT get the "DIVIDEND" (in this case, the extra stock after the split).
In many cases, the EX DATE is 2 days prior to the RECORD DATE because of the T-3 situation - in other words, you must have the stock 3 days prior to the RECORD DATE to be the one who is listed as receiving the stock. This means you have to be the owner on record to get the benefit.
However, this is not the case here.
Here, the EX DATE is APRIL 6, which means you do NOT get the split shares if you buy ATNP on APRIL 6 or afterwards.
However, if you are holding ATNP at the end of trading on April 5, you WILL get the split shares...even though you were not holding it 3 days prior. You WILL get the shares, and they will come to your through the "DUE BILL" situation...as the shares will be "owed" to you by the person who owned the shares but then decided to sell them before the split.
The T-3 business DOES NOT APPLY here.
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Please note that I am not trying to be aggressive or a jerk about this. I am just trying to be factual. Actually, this has been a great learning experience for me.
And the fact is that I did not know ANY of these things until you brought it up, and I started to read many documents about the subject. I was even on the FINRA site (which was so overwhelming it was not that helpful). So actually I am grateful that you brought it up.
Here is another good page that helps explain this, and they use an illustration where the EX DATE is 2 days prior to the RECORD DATE, as you are used to.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/110802.asp
However, in this case the EX DATE is AFTER THE DATE OF RECORD, in which case the "DUE BILL" will be used to make sure that people get their shares if they are holding at close of business on April 5. This is explained in this page.
http://invest-faq.com/cbc/stock-split.html
I thank you for bringing this up.
THAT IS CORRECT!!!
If you hold your shares from now until April 5, and you sell at noon on April 5 - you will get NO split shares.
The person who bought your shares on April 5 will get the split shares (assuming they hold it to the end of day).
THE PERSON WHO IS HOLDING THE SHARES AT CLOSE OF BUSINESS APRIL 5 WILL GET SPLIT SHARES, regardless of when they buy them.
I did not understand this until you wrote this email...but now that I do, I will share it.
The short of it is this: The exchanges have simplified this for the average investor, so if you are the one who holds the stock on the announced "split date," then you get the split shares.
If you are happy with that, DO NOT READ FURTHER. The rest of this explains what REALLY happens, and it is very confusing, and it is not necessary to know.
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THE REALITY is that it takes 3 days for a trade to settle. Therefore, the person who owns the shares 3 days prior to the split is "officially" the "person of record" as holding the shares on the day of the split. They call that day T-3 (T = day of split, -3 is minus 3 days).
That day is TODAY.
(Today is T-3, Wed is T-2, Thur is T-1, and Monday is T-0).
HOWEVER....if you decide to sell your stock prior to the split date, you will NOT get the split shares!
A "DUE BILL" will be attached to your account, which states that you have a bill --- and you must give the new shares to the person who owned the shares at the time of the split.
In other words, regardless of when you buy the shares, if YOU own the shares at close of business on the April 5, YOU will get the split shares.
If you SELL the shares prior to close on April 5, you will NOT get the shares. You will be the official person of record, but you will have to pay a "DUE BILL" to the person who owns the shares at the time of the split, and you will have to give them the split shares. This is done automatically, and it will never even see your account.
Here is a posting that explains it in more detail, and better than I can explain it.
http://invest-faq.com/cbc/stock-split.html
No, it's close of business on April 5th...well, at least according to the PR from today.
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"Atlantis Technology Group (PINKSHEETS: ATNP) received notification from FINRA regarding the April 5th, 2010 5 for 1 forward split. On March 29th, 2010, Atlantis Technology Group's management received confirmation of the record date of April 5th, 2010 5 for 1 forward split and the ex-dividend date of April 6th, 2010 from FINRA's corporate actions department.
For every one share of Atlantis Technology Group that is owned as of the record date, 4 additional shares will be issued. For example, if you have 100,000 shares of ATNP at the close of the market on April 5th, 2010, you will receive 400,000 additional shares totaling 500,000 shares. "
It is a slow runup, but we have 3 more trading days before the split which is a lot of time (Wed, Thur, Mon).
We could double from here in 3 days.
Let's hope! :)
I don't know. I wasn't there for that...
But I can tell you: FINRA is not "cool." If they think that someone is getting an 80% scam bonus (which is essentially what you are talking about - selling your current shares at the pre-split price, and then getting 4 extra shares which you can sell at post-split prices), they aren't going to be "good" with that.
If someone tells you that you can do this...well, you know what they say about things that are too good to be true. Here is a quote for you:
"I'm sure you've heard the expression, ‘If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.’ Well, in the investment world, I say, ‘If something sounds too good to be true, it definitely is.’"
--- [1997 Washington Times 3 June B7]
The key thing to remember is this:
No money is made or lost on the stock market. It just "trades hands."
In other words, if someone makes money, then someone else loses it.
There are no scams in a split. If someone gets scammed, they will sue.
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(FYI - look up trial attorneys in your neighborhood. Almost all of them offer SECURITIES LAW SUITS amongst the things that they will do. Lawyers LOVE to do securities lawsuits.)
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SO....in other words, there is no way to run a scam where you sell post-split shares for elevated pre-split prices.
If you did, then someone else would have to be buying post-split shares for pre-split prices....and then they would find their PPS divided by 5, and they would be pissed.
I agree with that assessment entirely.
Only this time, the increase will affect those that held the stock on a 5 to 1 basis.
Sure.
However, keep in mind that you would be selling your current shares for 1/5 the price - so the 4 additional shares would not be "free shares."
You need to sell all 5 shares to make the pre-split PPS.
If it goes up after the split, it effectively goes up 5 times for each tic.
But also, if it goes DOWN after the split, it goes down 5 times for each tic.
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If you are day trading this, splits are a gamble play.
If you are long, then there is a chance that, even if it goes DOWN after the split (which sometimes they do, from profit taking), it will still probably "catch up," and will possibly have another run...and this time, the run will be worth 5 times as much to you!
I think another run is likely in ATNP's future. ATNP probably has SEVERAL runs left in it, regardless of what happens with GOTV.
In this case, it is possible that ATNP may go UP after the split - given the news of the launch of the phone, they will probably announce dividends, they have TV advertising coming, and there will undoubtedly be more sales contracts.
It is STILL a gamble...but there are definitely way more dangerous things to gamble on in penny land. This has already demonstrated a repeat in the behavior pattern of coming back to a penny....twice.
My opinion, of course.
There is a single DATE AND TIME at which anyone holding those shares will get 4 additional shares for every share that they hold. Also, after this point in time, the PPS will drop to 20% of its value, to even things out.
After that, you can do whatever you want with your shares. It has already been recorded that you will get those additional shares.
You CAN sell those shares that are in your account...at the new LOWER PPS.
Wow. DuBeau is really pushing this company hard. Launch Mar 1, Demo out during the week of Mar 22, 5 to 1 Forward Split April 5, Announcement of Launch date of GOPHONE on April 7.
It is clear to me that they are doing everything in their power to improve the value of this stock - which is fantastic for the investors of ATNP.
It is nice to have a CEO who cares about what is going on with the price of the stock of his company.
:)