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Zeev, have you figured out an after lunch scenario yet? You were right on with the plunge after 10. Doesn't appear to be much of a lunch move...
The Zulus gave 'em hell for a while....
Look, if I want to waste time and energy gabbing with a couple buffoons you and SoxFan will be the first ones to know. In the mean time feel free to disagree with me any time. I couldn't ask for better validation than that.
Still it's better than you deserved. Don't worry bobbie SoxFan will commisserate.
You two can even begin a thread of "irrelevant and foolish questions".
Re:We shouldn't have been there to begin with.
That is your opinion. When you get to be President then you can decide.
Re:There is no evidence that Al Quaeda are hiding in Iraq.
Baloney.
Zeev, Saddam has had his chances. It is too difficult and too expensive to move forces around the world to pick and choose when wars will be fought.
This was not supposed to be a scavenger hunt. Iraq was on notice to turn over their WMDs. They haven't done so. Our forces are in place.
There are always going to be unintended consequences. That is an unfortunate byproduct of war. One intended consequence will be that al Qaida forces will no longer find Iraq a safe harbor. Another will be that Israel will no longer be a short range missile shot away.
We have had several hundred years for democratization to take hold, it is wishful thinking to believe that it can be done through peaceful processes. There is only one way to remove the Bath Party...by force.
It feels like my canary ORCL is rolling over...Expecting weakness the rest of the day with a few lower low bounces.
I rest my case.
Bobbie...the mere suggestion that you think at all is laughable.
Standard line for you isn't it BobbieSox? You want to act like an @sshole but demand a Christian response from me. Well the nice thing about being a Christian is that you don't have to be perfect.
Being from Boston you can identify with that...Huh, Bobbie?
Just think how much more impressive the call would have been had you indicated within four of 1300...<g>
Nice call.
How does tomorrow shape up? Looking for a gap down?
If it was a private reply then it was simply because I hit the wrong button. You deserved the comment in the open. I reiterate that you have displayed zero absorption capability. I won't waste my time with you. Get lost.
You may choose to be insulted whether one does it or not. It comes with the territory of wimps. Wimp.
I'd say we ran out of gas at 13:38. Should be a very weak day from here until last 20 minutes or so.
I'm not going to take the time to bring you up to speed SoxFan. You can read all the posts if you care. That article is not worth even wasting time discussing.
CardsFan
The sword of Damocles cuts both ways. Intolerance comes in all shapes and sizes. What shape and size is yours?
How can Christ's message threaten you if you reject it? If you believe in heaven and that you can earn your way then all you must do is hope you are right. If you do not believe in heaven then this is all a moot issue for you and intolerance has no meaning. I am certainly not threatened by your beliefs albeit I think Zeev's characterization of your motives is right on.
This depiction of Focus on the Family is false. You don't know what you are talking about. Small wonder there is no cite for these comments. Please disclose the source if you have one. If it is just your version then I reiterate my previous post, try to find out the truth before you spew this erroneous information. As described it smacks of your own version of hatred. Ignorance comes in many forms and none less tolerant than what I have observed from you.
Focus on the Family certainly did condemn the murderers. I personally heard Jim Dobson express great anguish over the death of this young man and the brutal nature of the bigots who did this.
It is true that Focus on the Family has proffered professional help to those who want to change their sexual preference from homosexuality. There are a number of people who successfully completed the program and some were interviewed over the radio to include a couple (man and woman) who subsequently married. What, pray tell, is wrong with that? No one forced them to undergo the transformation.
sarai, you ask a lot of questions as if you want to learn. The truth appears to be that you have long since made up your mind. So you believe in relative truths rather than absolutes. Why then attack the beliefs of others? How are you threatened?
Christians don't relegate non Christians to Hell. It isn't their place. They have only one basis for understanding. Christ tells us that in His Father's home (heaven) there are many mansions, and that he goes there to prepare one for us. I find it interesting that you take issue with this Christian belief. How can you be threatened by this if you don't believe it?
What do you believe, sarai? Do you even believe in heaven or hell? Why do or don't you? What is the basis for that belief?
What absolute drivel. Sarai, I do understand your confusion. You read trash. Garbage in garbage out.
No mainehiker I am saying the murder of Sheppard was an abomination. Thanks for asking.
sarai, you don't know what you are talking about. James Dobson and Focus on the Family had nothing to do with harrassing the family and mourners of Matthew Sheppard.
Focus on the Family couldn't have been more opposed to the abomination of Sheppard or more sympathetic to his family. James Dobson certainly opposes abortion. But his platform is love for his fellow man.
Do not malign or slander this organization. If you wish to critique it then first find out what you are talking about.
mlsoft...
Technically you may be right. As I mentioned I have no expertise on the process. From a practical standpoint, however, I don't think it is reasonable to believe that the justice system could ever administer. Moreover, how one chooses to treat their body prior to being aware of their pregnancy is extremely difficult to legislate.
On the other hand, I find it interesting that those who would favor abortion even in the third trimester, still find it reasonable to punish mothers who deliver "crack babies".
Mike
Re:<<If you use high dose sex hormone within 72 hours of possible conception there is a virtually 100% lack of implantation.
Does this qualify as abortion?
IF you take ru 486 at 3-4 weeks or so ( just when you could conceivably test postitive) when the fetus is not perfectly formed so does this count as abortion?>>
I know nothing about the sex hormone. In any event it would be prior to any ability to know whether one was in fact pregnant thus would be impossible to determine that an abortion was done or to regulate. At first blush, I consider that very similar to taking the pill. I think only the Catholics take issue with the pill.
If you are asking an opinion, obviously, I don't think ru 486 should be available in the US. It is a form of abortion.
Re:<<Finally, speaking for the Hindus in America, do you have the right to impose your views in the form of a public law on all Americans?>>
That is a canard. The laws regarding killing a baby should apply to all race, religion or creed who live under within our borders.
Zeev, with all due respect I don't fully understand your position on abortion. Because I have grown to appreciate your reasoned approach to so many issues, I am certain that you gave much thought to something this important before taking a stand. Perhaps you could clarify your thinking for me.
While appreciating the concern that you have for those who would continue to seek abortion were it made illegal in this country, I don't hear much sympathy for the other life involved. I realize there is disagreement as to what stage a "fetus" is considered a life. Still, it would appear that this is a weak argument. We all know, after all, that it is only a matter of time, and not a question of whether birth would otherwise occur. In the development of your position have you considered the scientific evidence of the birth process?
http://www.thehelpline.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment.htm
I wish that you would not so readily disqualify those who oppose abortion simply as religious "vigilantees". Surely pro life reasons are every bit as considered as those who would favor choice. If those who oppose the destruction of the fetuses were not to stand up, who would defend the rights of the only innocents amongst us. I don't pretend to fully comprehend all issues of a woman desiring the right to terminate a pregnancy. Certainly there are instances which tear at our heartstrings to include rape, incest, deformities and the possible loss of life of the mother. Each of these issues create ethical dilemmas on which I am hard pressed to form an opinion. Still I admire the women who choose to carry these pregnancies to term because of their reverence for the value of the life within them.
But, it is the convenient destruction of a perfectly formed baby developing in a womb simply because one is unwed, or financially not prepared, or unwilling to have their lives complicated that evokes outrage in those opposed to abortion. This while there are would be parents who must wait for years for the opportunity to adopt a child.
I appreciate your position that abortion is already permitted and to reverse Roe vs Wade would constitute a take back. But how can those who believe abortion to be nothing less than licensed murder find any solace with that argument? No one is completely unsympathetic to the plight of women with unwanted pregnancies. No one wants women to again be subjected to the back alley butchers who would prey on those electing to abort despite its illegality. The dilemma is monumental and there can be no perfect solution. But to those who respect the sanctity of life, the laws as they stand are untenable.
Zeev, I was born just after WWII, but I would hope that, had I been living in Germany during the persecution of the Jews, I would have been one of the first to step forward to oppose a government which so callously denied the rights of a group of people simply because of their ethnic persuasion. While I realize that the Nazi government took the lead in Semitic persecution this was only possible because reasoned people did nothing to stop it. Could the public be excused for their inactivity simply because this treatment was made lawful in their country. How different is it then from the rights of the unborn, those unable to fend for themselves, that can be vacuumed from a womb limb by limb; protected only by a 24 hour moratorium?
This issue is not being pressed by a small faction of "religious zealots". There is hardly a Christian or Catholic Church that does not oppose abortion in a land reported to be 70% Christian. I am not pretending that all Christians think like-minded any more than any other faith or ethnic group. I am suggesting that those who oppose abortion are significant, are organized and are demanding to be heard on this issue. Roe vs Wade will be revisited in the courts and this issue will continue to be contested regardless of the outcome.
Well I think we can put aside the sabotage theory:
WASHINGTON (Feb. 21) - A NASA research engineer warned two days before Columbia broke apart that the shuttle might be in ''marginal'' condition and that others in the space agency weren't adequately considering the danger of a breach near its left wheels, according to internal e-mails NASA disclosed Friday.
''We can't imagine why getting information is being treated like the plague,'' the engineer wrote in one of a series of messages describing internal concerns about Columbia's safety in the days before its breakup Feb. 1 over Texas.
The board investigating the accident, which only obtained the e-mails late Friday, believes the shuttle suffered a breach based on its analysis of rising temperatures inside the same wheel compartment that the engineer had cited for concern.
The engineer, Robert Daugherty of NASA's Langley research facility in Hampton, Va., wrote two days before Columbia's breakup that experts on the shuttle's protective heat tiles were concerned that Columbia's condition was ''survivable but marginal'' after it was struck by debris on liftoff.
Other documents NASA released showed engineers feared that Columbia was struck on liftoff by three pieces of loosened insulating foam, not just the one previously acknowledged. NASA spokesman Allard Beutel said Friday that officials now believe one large foam piece broke into three smaller chunks before at least one struck the spacecraft. The investigating board said it was looking into the matter.
Daugherty did not mention in his e-mails any concern that a breach might cause Columbia to break apart during its fiery descent, saying that the risks of deadly heat burning into the wheel compartment was ''arguably very unlikely.''
But Daugherty explicitly warned in a Jan. 29 e-mail that ''one of the bigger concerns'' was that damage to thermal tiles near the wheel compartment seal could permit a hole there. He appeared worried most about pilots struggling to land Columbia with one or more tires inside damaged from extreme heat.
''It seems to me that if mission operations were to see both tire pressure indicators go to zero during entry, they would sure as hell want to know whether they should land with gear up, try to deploy the gear or go bailout,'' Daugherty wrote.
The accident board has previously determined Columbia almost certainly suffered a devastating breach along its wing and possibly its wheel compartment that allowed searing air to seep inside during its descent at nearly 12,500 miles per hour.
Earlier this week, board member James Hallock said investigators were ''very much interested also in the landing gear door itself, because once again you have tiles all around the area, but you also have seals.''
Unusual temperature readings inside the wing and wheel compartment began within minutes of the shuttle's re-entry, far off the coast of California.
Senior NASA officials have steadfastly supported assurances since the accident by The Boeing Co., a contractor, that Columbia was expected to be able to return safely despite the possible tile damage.
They also have maintained that concerns expressed in e-mails among midlevel engineers - such as Daugherty - were part of a ''what-if'' analysis, and that even these employees were satisfied with Boeing's conclusions.
''During the flight, no one involved in the analysis or the management team or the flight team raised any concerns,'' NASA spokesman James Hartsfield said Friday.
But the e-mails disclosed in Washington questioned some details about those assurances by Boeing, including underlying assumptions about the likelihood of minor damage from a large chunk of breakaway foam and whether injury to Columbia might have been caused by falling ice.
The e-mails also include references by Daugherty and another Langley employee, Mark J. Shuart, about secrecy over the studies of risks to Columbia. Shuart wrote Jan. 28 to two other employees, referring to the foam strike, ''I am advised that the fact that this incident occurred is not being widely discussed.''
It is your opinion of why Osama exists. But you are wrong. The reason Osama exists is because there is hatred in the world. Some people act on that hatred.
I discern some hatred in your words. You, however, choose to direct that dislike or hatred in an exchange of words on an Internet thread. Osama chooses to plan mass murders. Everyone has choices.
You must someday be honest with yourself and figure out why you think people are hurt by the gospel message. A message that they are free to receive or ignore. Jesus told his disciples to go and preach the message. He said if that message is not received then shake the dust from your sandals and move on. How threatening can that be?
Re: << He is just a proxy representing many I have met and heard. I have seen people hurt by this. You obviously are in that camp. That is the reason Osama exists.>>
aj and I both noticed...just like a bowl of jelly. Of course, it also could be the father of the bride's last minute jitters.<vbg>
Re:<<The post was a reference to Biblical Law on gambling (ie Stock Trading) in response to commentary regarding Biblical Law on homosexuality. >>
sarai, what are you really trying to say here? Are you trying to interpolate that Stock Trading is gambling? There is no reference to buying stocks in the Bible. Still, each individual will have to look at his own life to determine if trading stocks interferes with his relationship with the Lord. There is very specific guidance regarding homosexuality. The Bible specifically refers to it as an abomination. Today many people don't care. That is their choice.
A Christian has no choice but to care. But there is nothing that says a Christian must take action against homosexuality. We live in a world that suffers great disparity. We live and let live. If you ask a Christian what the Bible says about homosexuality he will tell you. If you ask him about how he feels about the sin he may tell you that too. But it is important to understand the difference between hating the sin and hating the sinner. Christians should not hate the sinner. If hating the sin makes him a bigot in your book then so be it. Tolerance of all things is not a good thing. Surely you believe that even if you have misgivings about biblical law.
Re:<<. My belief is that causing pain to others is wrong. We shall see.>>
Who is causing you pain jbennett53...? MLSOFT is telling you what he believes. He isn't causing you any pain. If you feel pain see a doctor. If you think pain then try to consider why. Perhaps it is your conscience. You will have to deal with that by yourself if you don't ask for help.
Nothing MLSOFT has said is a condemnation of you. Christianity is a religion which allows everyone to choose without condemnation or retribution from mankind. MLSOFT cannot condemn you and would not if he could. You have the power to choose what you will believe.
I assume that if you are interested then you have read the Bible for yourself. If you have not then that too is your choice. Until you do it is pointless to ask others for interpretation.
Zeev, I realize that INVN is a broken stock right now and the chart is ugly. Do you think the fundamentals warrant a longer term hold or that the ride is over?
Chirac is irrelevant. You must know that. Bush has made his decision. The UN will come along kicking and screaming or not, the die is cast. Your 3/3 date, on the other hand, remains very relevant.
P.S. Yeah, I know, the last sentence...<g>
I can partially answer that, if you are in a bear suit and short they don't look very good. If you just aren't fully invested, like Zeev, it simply looks like missed opportunity.
jbennett53, I too mean this in the pleasantest way possible. You get no Hellfire or brimstone from me. I didn't make the rules and I won't interpret them to anyone who doesn't want to hear them.
Good luck.
P.S. Just for clarification's sake...this is what I find offensive:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=700498
The confusion is in fact yours Webster. Christians believe that Christ is One with the Holy Spirit and The Father. The Trinity is only distinguished in Function not in Form.
Christ was God's Son. Jesus said, "In the beginning I Am". He was conceived by the Holy Ghost and placed on Earth in Mary's womb so that he could live amongst us as God had promised. He was God's "sacrificial lamb" to pay the price for our inevitable sin. Our role is to accept His atonement so that the Father will see our sin only through Christ's blood which washes it away.
Do you go to church to "demonstrate your belief in Jesus" or to praise and give honor to the Lord? "Church" is variously defined. It is a wonderful refuge and helps us renew our commitment to God, but it isn't an integral part of our salvation. Nowhere in the bible does attendance play a crucial role in the "road to salvation". On the other hand, fellowship with others strengthens and encourages the afflicted. We are all afflicted and, importantly, we all have a responsibility to our fellow men through Christ's Great Commissioning.
Our fruits (or actions) lend credence of our faith through example here on earth. The final inspector of our fruit will be the Father and only then will we know what part it plays in our salvation. Some say none. One of the apostles, on the other hand, said "faith without works is dead".
I am quite certain that mlsoft made no effort to differentiate belief in Jesus from that of belief of the Father except to recognize how God chose to resolve the separation between man and Himself.
Hellfire and brimstone, of course, are your words jbennett53. Oh, I won't respond to your response...so don't respond... Is that how it works...? Ooops. That was rhetorical.
Re:<<Which part is not applicable to the US "Religious Right"?... Tia>>
Frankly, I don't find any of them particularly applicable, sarai. Moreover, I don't think I have misinterpreted your posts regarding the "Religious Right".
sarai, what exactly would you have the Christian Right do? Anyone can criticize and you do it better than most. Anyone can sum up, in just a few words, the insignificance or failures in others lives. If it somehow makes you feel vindication then be my guest.
Christians, above all, are appalled that Christians are dying because of their faith in other lands. The places you mention, by the way, aren't the only place that there is persecution of Christians. That exists in every country, including in the United States where that "Right" is allegedly so strong. Persecution simply comes in other forms.
I would gladly give my life if I knew a way to stop the mass and heinous executions you refer to. I am sure there are many Christians who feel similarly. One irony of this is that these Christians are singled out simply because of a decision of faith, not even by their race which entails no decision at all. In fact, these decisions of faith come thru the assistance or leading of missionaries who often sacrifice their own lives in the process and are supported by other Christians at home.
There are many battles to be fought. Abortion may not be an issue of interest to you. But for those who see it as an abomination of God's commandments, as the Christians do, it can be no less important than what is happening in Sudan or Saudi. And, it happens to the most innocent of all, those who cannot possibly defend themselves.
You are mistaken. The real issue is everyone's right to exist, not just Israel's. Remember to choose your enemies carefully. History suggests that the only reason Israel does exist is because of that "Christian Right" you so flippantly malign.
May it be a blessed event Zeev...and may there be a plethora of little Zeevite grandbabies running around in the years to come...<g>
There is no acceptable alternative left to us Zeev. Everyone is not playing by the same rule book.
To allow Saddam to continue to develop WMD's makes no sense. To pretend that containment works is playing into his hands. To hope that whoever might follow him would be reasonable and willing to disarm is pure folly.
Zeev, I want to live in the same world you do. That world doesn't exist. This one has become much more dangerous since baby Kim and Saddam have taken their course.
We cannot fail to act.
Re:<<Let wiser heads prevail - none of whom, unfortunately, appear to reside at present in the White House.>>
Pierre, that was an unfortunate final comment at the end of a reasonably articulate if not misguided treatise for peace. Would that our love for peace were shared by the rest of the world.
To obtain peace, both parties must want it. There has never been any question that the U.S. is a peace loving country that wants badly to live by rules. Unfortunately, too many people have forgotten that war was declared and the first salvo has already been fired. There are nasty evil people out there and they aren't playing by our rules and they don't conform to any single country's boundaries.
There are, also rogue states run by ruthless men who will do whatever they see fit to bring terror on those who would oppose them. Like you, many would love to look upon men like Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong Il as ruthless men who live far away and have nothing to do with your life. You would love to throw around two dollar words like containment, negotiations, compromise and laissez faire...while offering no solutions to problems which really have very few.
Well wake up and smell the java. We cannot afford to simply focus on Osama Bin Ladin. He is a snake who has no home. He lives under a rock and slides on his belly from one hole to another. He survives on the good graces of various hosts who are either powerless to stop him or too sympathetic to want to or both. He cavorts with evil and does the dirty work under the umbrella of our enemies.
We endured eight years of a President who enjoyed unwarranted success on the domestic economy while haphazardly bungling relationships with foreign countries. Clinton used former President Carter to broker a deal which promised fuel and food for abandonment of nuclear alternatives while baby Kim continued to secretly develop. When Clinton discovered in '98 that Kim was cheating, our Prez was so weakened domestically by his own cheating that he had no moral imperative to deal with it. He was by this time, bungling the Iraqui response as our CIA pointed out that removal of inspectors left Saddam operating full out developing WMDs. His response was to send aircraft into the no fly zones and bombard anti aircraft positions. He responded to the first bomb at the twin towers by lobbing a single cruise missile at an empty terrorist camp. Wow!
The current President has been given a difficult hand to deal. He must pick his "battles" carefully. We must take into account the limited resources we have and the capabilities of our enemies. While there are those who simply want to criticize, anyone with a sense of reality ought to understand that our foreign policy is indeed in capable hands. It is too late to stop baby Kim from becoming a nuclear power. He is one. He is, however, too smart to use those weapons on South Korea, Japan or the US. They are there and will have to be dealt with in time...but Iraq is far more urgent.
Saddam's gas and biological agents are undoubtedly well along in production. It isn't important how they got there. That isn't a Republican or a Democratic issue it is an American issue. But nuclear power cannot be allowed to be developed by this tin horn dictator. His ties with the Arab underworld and his hatred for the US are far too deep to allow fruition. Our world is hanging by a thread from falling into utter chaos. There is only one country keeping the dogs at bay. If you doubt that, proffer an alternative discourse. You can't.
This President has focused on the objectives and will do what is necessary. He hopes with all of his heart that Saddam will be overthrown. The chances would have been far greater were the world community in harmony. Unfortunately, there are few visionaries. Certainly not France, a second rate country, with no foreign policy other than to promote their own self interests whether that be to sell nuclear capability to Iraq or military parts for oil. Certainly not Germany, a fossil military with a Chancellor elected on an anti American platform. Certainly not Russia which has almost no economic foothold, is also targeted by Islamic terrorists and depends precariously on a burgeoning price of oil.
Iraq must be stopped. There is no viable alternative. They cannot be "contained". Saddam's evil is comparable to that of Hitler. His legacy is steeped in ruthlessness. He will kill and slaughter any who oppose him and we are the only thing standing in his way.
Saddam doesn't have to face off the US military power. He doesn't have to defeat our armies. all he has to do is convince the US that we have no right to forcibly remove those weapons. Were we to lose backbone on this issue the rest of history will be written in footnotes similar to 911. With the disintegration of American resolve there will be no moral imperative for international law. National and local governments will lose efficacy and anarchy will rule.
There was such resolve the day after 911. Lets go get the bastards who did this. "Let's Roll". A country united? Not for long. Now it is back to a Republican/Democratic thing. Now its that "damn guy in the White House" isn't doing what I want him to....
Well he is doing the only thing that makes any kind of sense when dealing with those who cannot follow rules. He is operating within the guidelines of NATO and the UN to this point. He will try everything possible to unite the world and make them aware of the heinous perils facing this world and he will take you and me with him along the way. You may come along kicking and screaming, you may fight him every step of the way, but you are simply playing into the hands of Hussein, the French, the Germans, the Russians, etc. You can pretend that somehow your intellect is superior to that of Bush and his White House "gang". But you aren't fooling me. Bush knows exactly what he's doing and I am right behind him. If you think there is an alternative then run for President.
Sometimes the love for peace must also be tempered by the willingness to fight for freedom. Our freedoms are at stake and those who would take it away fully appreciate your point of view. I suspect that, by the time, you find something worth fighting for, it will be too late.