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There are always those who prefer to ignore facts and believe in well spun tales instead. And that's fine. We are all entitled to believe what we like, and that's the way it should be.
The root cause of these back and forth disagreements... not arguments, really... is that none of us really knows what is going on on the inside. Besides, we are all bound together by a common thread: the hope that LQMT succeeds before we croak. That it happens, and when it happens, is much more important than how it happens.
Show me where LQMT has any statements about CE on their website.
Well said, Hank.
I have, on multiple occasions, presented a counter argument. And it comes from LQMT’s COO and from their website. You just disregard what I’ve said because you don’t want to believe it. And that’s OK. It does not say anything negative about you. But it’s not accurate to say there have been no counter arguments. And of the two arguments, I’m basing mine on what LQMT is telling it’s customers and it’s shareholders. What Josh is telling you is not based on the primary source.
As Handsome Hank said, that makes no sense at all. Li is a businessman. He’s not a gambler, like we are.
Since LQMT is not pursuing any CE business - at least according to their website and according to what Bromage has told us - I don't see any way for LQMT to directly gain revenue from CE... at least not until / if they change their stated goals.
However, they can gain indirectly. It's taking longer for BMGs to catch on in the USA than it is in Asia. Lugee is already making CE parts for Chinese companies. As BMGs become more and more popular as an alternative high tech material in Asian markets, companies across the globe will start using them. And that is how LQMT can gain indirectly from the adoption of BMGs in CE products.
For the time being, all the talk about CE in regards to LQMT is tantamount to stirring an empty tea cup. If it makes people feel better... that's fine. But there is currently nothing there. Period. That doesn't mean things won't change in the future. I'm hoping Lugee will be able to get LQMT to side-step Apple's restrictions. But right now that's only a possibility... and only in the future. We need revenues NOW. And as of now, LQMT IS NOT PURSUING CE APPLICATIONS!
The talk about Apple using the alloys is likely, but when, who knows? The talk about Apple working with LQMT is another pipe dream, IMHO. I hope I'll be proven wrong. But in either case, there is currently NO evidence to support that contention.
You are often correct, but not this time!
CE is very important to the "Lugee web" of companies. But unless I misunderstand you, the implication of what you wrote is that LQMT will not succeed as a company by taking the path they are on. - That makes no sense at all, and speaks quite poorly of Prof. Li.
It is abundantly clear from LQMT's website, https://www.liquidmetal.com, that they are engaged in the pursuit of non-CE applications and the companies that produce such products (medical, automotive, industrial and sporting goods). No where does their website tout CE. Yet you imply that LQMT is wasting time and money pursuing non-CE applications and non-CE producing companies, because CE is the only way for LQMT to succeed as a company. That translates into "Instead of Lugee working to grow a company that has the potential of making him a billionaire (in American dollars), he is wasting his own time and his own money by directing LQMT to pursue a business plan which cannot lead to the success of the company."
You can't have it both ways. Either Lugee is a competent business man, smart enough to create a "BMG Network of Companies," or he is a crazy person who is throwing away $64 million dollars by intentionally leading one of his own companies to ruin. (A company, btw, that has the potential to make him a Billionaire in American dollars.)
If Lugee is smart enough to have built the business network that you've previously shown (and thank you for that), he is not stupid enough to direct LQMT to follow a (non-CE) business plan unless it will lead to a successful company.
There is another factor here. We are all hoping for a relatively short turn profit. (That holds true even for those of us long time investors, because we keep telling ourself “next year will be the year they succeed.”) But Prof. Li has a longer horizon than most of us. If it takes another 5 or 6 years for this company to succeed, many of us will be long gone by then. But Li will still make billions. (E.g., if he succeeds in getting LMT back on the NASDAQ, he will own $1.6 Billion dollars at $4/share.)
Two thumbs up on your post, Greedy. Very well put.
Ha ha! You are so spot on. I worry about that too. My only consolation is that while Li can negotiate with himself, and has an obvious self interest, that self interest resides in making LQMT profitable... at least for some short period of time. And when that happens, we will all be able to cash out with very handsome profits. - I am comfortable with self-interest as a motivation. It's altruism that I am suspicious of.
As I see it, there are 2 possible scenarios. 1) Li eventually gets LQMT to the point where it is profitable and still growing, in which case he owns hundreds of millions of dollars in a high tech growth company in America that is beyond the reach of China's de facto dictator, Xi Jinping; or 2) he follows the path he stated when addressing questions from Eontec shareholders and effectively sells his controlling interest in LQMT to Eontec, once LQMT becomes profitable. Quite frankly, I can't understand why he would chose the second option; but I'm fine with either one. Because when LQMT even approaches profitability, I'll walk away with A LOT of money... providing this all takes place in a realistic time frame.
OK Sorry. I misunderstood the question... and it's a good one.
There have been so many "deals" between LQMT and other companies and individuals that I have trouble keeping it all straight. I'm not a lawyer (... but I did sleep at a Motel 6 last night ) and I know of one very important link between the two companies: Prof. Lugee Li. Whatever formal agreements are necessary for the two companies to work together will be arranged, if needed..
My post was directed at people with enough intelligence to understand what I wrote.
Forget the licensing model. That was Tom’s plan.
The old licensing model was predicated on the fact that LQMT didn’t have the means (the # of machines, the factory floor space to accommodate more machines, or the capital to invest in additional machinery) to handle large orders on their own. So they tried to get major product companies (like Boston Scientific, Medtronic, etc.) to buy their own, licensed machines, or get existing manufacturing companies to invest in Engel machines in order to become a licensed, certified contract manufacturer. Fat chance!
This was their licensing plan in a nut shell: “Hi their. My name is Paul. Did you know that you can buy a license, and then invest millions of dollars on machinery, to become one of our certified manufacturers? It will give you the opportunity to make parts using costly alloys that have no track records. And by the way, at no extra charge, our engineers will have your back at no extra charge.”
Thanks to Lugee, they already have the capital, the expertise, and the equivalent of a ready made contract manufacturer standing by to fill large orders.
It’s all water under the bridge. They now have a real business plan and the means to execute it. And they are self funded, with enough cash on hand to operate for years into the future. The question we have to answer is, do we have the means to hold our positions until such time as they succeed executing their plan?
Finally: A Practical Business Plan that Makes Sense
We can look at this company as having 3 distinct eras.
1. From a $15 stock to a $.05 stock. (2002 - 2010)
Business plan: 'Throw enough stuff against the wall and hope that some of it sticks.' They hoped to take advantage of the the fact that their alloys were stronger than titanium and could be molded like plastics. The problem: injection molding machines capable of using their BMG alloys were not developed until 2012 - 2013. Instead of selling product, they sold hype. The $50 million raised in the IPO was squandered.
2: Dilution with no solution. (2010 - 2016)
Business plan: 'Fund operations by licensing the technology.' The problem: No one wanted to lay out millions to buy IM machines to make parts with an unproven technology (except Visser… and we know how that turned out). So capital had to be raised by diluting the stock 5 fold over 6 years.
3. The China Road. (2016 - Present)
Business plan: 'Use 5-6 years worth of cash on hand to build the business and fund operations, and side-step Apple’s restrictions on CE.' Problems? Remains to be seen.
LIquidmetal is no longer under Apple’s thumb.
The switch to the EON formula solves 3 major problems.
1) the cost factor. They are now more competitive on price.
2) large orders can be filled in China. Doors are now open for major companies to place large orders.
3) no more restrictions on CE. Apple screwed Lqmt by paying only $20 million for patent rights and prohibiting Lqmt from using the alloys for CE. Apple can't use the EON alloys. The switch to the EON alloys puts Lqmt back on top of Apple and will allow them to side step the Apple imposed CE restrictions.
Thank you Josh!
Big News out of China
Watching Varney & Company on the Fox Business channel. Varney just reported that the Chinese Stock Market took a huge jump up overnight, because the Chinese government announced they will be directly supporting growth in their economy.
Maybe Josh, or some other iHub member who is fluent in Chinese, can verify the story.
J-man, off all your posts, that was absolutely the best one. LQMT has always sought, but has yet to find, the right application for its technology. Or, as you have so perfectly put it, they still haven’t found the ME ONLY application, even though they’ve been at it for almost 2 decades. Until they find that ME ONLY application, their white papers aren’t worth the cost of the ink they used to pen their purple prose.
All they produce is word salads. They have no sense of urgency. How long ago was it since they received the OK to proceed with the power upgrade? It still hasn’t been done.
When Lugee took over this company, I was sure things would be different. Sadly, it’s not. Lugee hides in China and ignores the shareholders of LQMT. I’m sure he had a very good reason for buying LQMT. But turning the company into a successful operation is apparently not the reason.
True that. I feel sorry for Bond, and for the same reason I feel sorry of all of us longs. We live with lots of hope but little evidence that this technology can actually be turned into significant revenues. So we all look to whatever "evidence" that suits our argument. But they are just arguments, not revenues.
My two favorite philosophers are Pogo ("we have met the enemy, and he is us") and our own Watts ("where's the beef?") There is more truth to those philosophies than we like to admit.
I did post it here, but because I like you, I'll post this part again... just for you.
Bond’s premise is that, “Li made the plunge with $64 million to buy Liquidmetal in December 2016, mere weeks following the U.S. presidential election,” implying that the timing was "no coincidence" and that Li knew Trump's trade policies would eventually favor Eontec and LQMT.
The problem with his argument is that Li bought his first block of 8 million shares in mid-2015. Trump wasn't even the presumptive nominee until May 4, 2016. Furthermore Li was supposed to buy the rest of his shares no later than November, 2015. But the agreement between Li and LQMT had to be extended because Li had trouble getting $63 million out of China. (Remember that?) And then, in March, 2016 - 2 months before Trump became the presumptive nominee, and when Hillary was the sure bet to become the next US President, Li came up with the rest of the cash ($63M). https://liquidmetal.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-details/liquidmetal-technologies-raises-63-million-partnership-global
So the very basis for Bond’s article is FALSE. His timing is all wrong. And if JB was did research, as he claims to do, it would have taken him less than 5 minutes to get the timing right. But then, the real facts do not support his fanciful story.
As for the rest of the errors, you can do your own homework.
BTW, Bond has some of his "facts" wrong, and the entire premise on which his article is based is not true. When the article first came out, I posted the corrections to his blog. But Bond decides which incoming posts get published on his blog. You can guess what he did with my post.
Thank you for that link. I appreciate it. It's something to hold on to even if it is was written by JB (and back in April).
They say that hope springs eternal, but I've been with this company for an eternity and all I've gotten so far is a case of ulcers. I'm trying to stay positive, but with each passing day, it's becoming more difficult to do so.
You are correct. Li controls the show. But by voting against one, or all, of the proposals is a way to get him to understand that minor shareholders are dissatisfied. In fact, it's the only way we have to get that message across. Complaining to each other on this board sends no message at all as Li doesn't waste his time reading our posts.
So what would you rather do? Sit back and do nothing because the odds are stacked up against you, or take whatever effective action you have available to you?
“Just a Board Member?”
It’s a position more influential than an employee. Get with the program, dude.
It won’t change the outcome, but sending a message always matters. If you don’t do anything, you don’t have a problem. All you have is a complaint. And that never gets you anywhere.
When you vote your shares, remember that Chung sold us out by selling a boat load of his shares.
Right you are, Yamasushi.
Help me to remember:
Who was it that praised Steipp... and then later turned around and bashed him?
And who was it that praised Hauck (because he "comes from good stock") and then latter bashed him?
People who live in glass internet houses should be wary of casting stones.
Right you are, handsome dude.
Thank you Professor for your opinion.
The low opinion of Prof. Li is shared by many on this message board. But if that opinion was credible, one would have to conclude that Kris Kent is either an idiot, or totally incapable of being hired anywhere else. The problem with that illogical reasoning is even a cursory assessment of Kent’s background points to the exact opposite conclusion.
The question I have is, should I be skeptical of the actions and motives of Prof. Li, regarding his investment in LMT, or should I be skeptical of the opinions of the professors who constantly critize Li. Not a difficult decision. Not even close.
Yama, I hope you’re not drinking too much saki with your sushi.
It’s not what’s happening. It’s who’s on first?
I guess the cat's out of the bag, so I might as well confess. I, too, am Watts.
Stop inventing and start manufacturing? Aren’t they a company that manufactures inventions?
You are spot on. And just to show that his only interest is in Eontec, and not LQMT, Li throws out even more of his own money by hiring a new VP of sales. Better still, over the last 3 years, Li has sold off a significant chunk of his shares in Eontec. Yes sir. I like a man like Li because, in spite of the fact that he owns 405 million shares of LQMT, and stands to make billions from his future ROI in LQMT, he is willing to throw all that money away and concentrate on the company that he has been gradually divesting himself from. What a guy! What a guy!
Auto parts: one of the main targets of LQMT, unencumbered by the CE restrictions in the MTA. Excellent!!!
Two thumbs up. Good find. Thanks.