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Just read page 5 of this document.
www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229140317000000000007
It has been reported that we, the wmilt, is only getting $45 million from the Ca. tax refund. That certainly doesn't sound good for those hoping to get anything for their equity escrows.
Hey, large Green, can you tell me this; If someone had nothing but preferred K's going into the conversion, signed the releases, and now has 50000 escrow units, how much would his payday be IF $20 billion did in fact reach the equity? Would it simply be 75% of the money divided by the total number of preferred escrow units in wmilt? And would that be anywhere near the former face value of $25 per share of the former k's.?
Well ok then, if that's the case tell me this, if someone held nothing but 50000 preferred K's going into the conversion, and signed all releases, if there is sufficient money reaching equity to pay the face value of preferreds, how much would each of those 50000 escrow placeholders get??
Oh, and if you don't know, maybe catz would be so kind as to explain that.
Look catz, I can see how the confusion reigns, and I accept my share of the blame, I didn't take the time to fully explain. You are right that some wmih common TRADABLE stock spun off of the preferred equities. But they are not the same as the escrow placeholders. And that is what I was trying to say to donot when he posted to allnet that if you had escrows, then you had WMIH stock, which may NOT be the case since those stocks became tradable on the open market. AND now those preferred placeholders if they were all released, should receive 75% of any monies that may come to wmilt equity escrows, isn't that so?
Yes, yes bbanbob, I know that, but what I was talking about was that those escrow "commons" that ARE held in escrow, have NO CONNECTION to the WMIH common stock that is trading on the open market. If you held commons going into the conversion, your escrows are held by a different cusip number than any preferred that you may have held. They were not mixed or split or mingled as some have seemingly believed.
Donotunderstand, your reply to allnet was the one I was responding to. You told him that escrow claims produced some WMIH shares. And just now to me you said "Pfd stock created both some amount of WMIH shares and an escrow account. Both are INCORRECT statements. IF you ONLY held prf. going into the conversion, then you ONLY have escrows for that amt. of prf. and NO common WMIH or escrow commons. If you held commons going into the conversion, then you should have an escrow for the commons, if you held both, then you should have both, provided that you signed the releases. It's really pretty simple, unless of course you are misreading my posts.
Yes, Yes, and YES! I know, but that's not what I was saying, this started because donotundrstand posted that the escrows go together with WMIH common shares, THEY DO NOT. those wam 1 numbers are NOT WMIH stock. Read my post in response to nranger a few posts back.
Yes, I don't doubt that which you say, but that's NOT what I am talking about. I said simply, that IF you ONLY held Preferreds, then you have those preferred placeholders in the exact number of the preferreds that you held,provided that you signed releases. And they were NOT divided into both common escrows and preferred escrows. If you held commons into the conversion, then you very well could have those placeholders for them, but they are NOT new shares of WMIH. They are simply there in case there is enough money to reach equity in the waterfall, and the split ratio will be 75% to former preferreds, and 25% to former commons. Clear enough?
Not wrong. What I said was that there is NO COMMON escrow shares. You may have held commons into the conversion, and were issued new commons at the conversion rate, but they were NOT held in escrow. The commons are all tradable and therefore not held in escrow. If you held ONLY preferreds going into the conversion, then you were issued ONLY converted preferred cusip numbered shares to be held in escrow. That's a fact.
So bbanbob, are you saying that you did receive those new wmih shares and that they are being held in escrow? That seems very odd since the new wmih shares ARE TRADEABLE. Notice that nothing held in escrow can be traded.
Here again, you are relating value of the different equities with the actual ownership of the different equities. I say again, no, if you held ONLY preferred shares at the conversion, AND you signed releases, then your escrow cusip numbers represent that preferred equity ALONE. NO you did not receive any commons by virtue of holding preferreds.
I hate to butt in here, but actually, you can have escrow shares without having wmih commons. You could have held preferred Ks for instance and no commons, and if you signed releases, you would then have those preferreds converted into the preferred escrow cusip numbers, no commons attaches to those.
what you are confusing here is that any payout to equity will be split %75, %25 between both commons and preferreds.
Yes, including the ones that jpm got voided a while back. Who has them all?
What about those pesky mortgages that nobody claims? Are they STILL in the hands of fdic? And are they really worth anything? Someone shine the light, please. thanks.
know what I mean?
Isn't a SPAC a clever way to dilute the shareholders into oblivion, thereby accomplishing what they wanted from the outset, that is, HAVE IT ALL to themselves.
Bob, I had both common and preferred K's prior to the conversion. I signed the release and held my preferreds. But I did sell my common stock prior to the conversion, knowing that I could buy into the new company after the conversion, which I did. I was able to get the WMIH below .50 and that turned out to be what I was hoping for. Now my question is, how can we be sure that those institutes didn't sell out all of their preferreds? They could have kept their piers, sold their commons and preferreds if they thought that the waterfall would end at the piers. Is there a list somewhere that tells how many owners of all the preferreds in the escrow? If so, that would help understand if there are some major holders of the escrow equities.
Why would they have??? Well, for starters, maybe they had enough info that they calculated that there would be a greater value in selling them before the conversion as opposed to holding them and maybe getting nothing! Sure, it would have been a hard pill to swallow, but, I thought about selling too, but I decided to take a chance that there would be a whopping third party suit or settlement from GS or someone else to make them pay close to face value. I don't even see much more than a few pennies on the dollar the way it looks now after the dismissal of the GS suit.
Honestly, I don't know of anyway the preferred escrows can get much at this point, I do hope I am wrong.
Bob,that's something that I wonder about too. But I also wonder if those hedgies sold their preferreds before the conversion.? I don't know if there is any way to know.
This is true, and if successful, will still only mean a very small amount, less than 1 cent on the dollar IMO.
Oh, I'll take this one. For starters, there is no connection between WMIH and the WMILT. If you had escrow shares, then your hopes are with third party lawsuits, the most obvious one would have been against GS. As of now that one is dead. So, as WMIH has a life worth something, the escrows are at best worth only a very small fraction of their former face value, most likely less than 2Cents on the dollar.
Wmih doing fine but with GS out of the picture, looks like those escrow shares will not be worth much at all, if anything.
Does anyone know what's going on with any LT lawsuits? What happened with GS? Without some huge success on that front, I am afraid the escrows are out of luck.
But did these firms hold them though the conversion and now have escrows? This we don't know.
The statute of limitations period starts from the time of the discovery of the fraud, not from the actual time that the fraud took place, NO?
Olti, do you know what those $32 billion in assests were specifically? For instance, did the value of equity at the time count toward some of that dollar figure? Does anyone here know?
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that piers wouldn't be paid, just that they were to be capped at something lower than expected. Then again, I really don't see where any money for equity LTs would come from after that.
Bob, I hold some shares in the LT escrow, and have some WMIH, but it's my understanding that there is very little chance on the equity LTs paying out anything. I don't think there will even be enough to pay the piers.
You sir have it correct.
If WMIH backs out it will cost $2million. But that could be peanuts compared to what a "better" offer could be, a bidding war? Heck yeah, bring it on.
Timing is indeed the key. What is concerning to me here is the large number of shares. But look at the market cap. This one has me puzzled, but I am going in for a small position.
I am not reading too much into that surge at the open, it was very low volume. The real story will happen after the payment date. Well anyway, good luck to you.
If you check the chart, you will see that the time of the first trades under the new ticker symbol occured at around 1:40 pm on the 12th, and the pps opened up over 300%, with a market cap of over $18 million. That didn't last long as it gradually has been leveling off. This is why I stated that as of now, the market forces will decide the true pps, or market cap if you will.
I may add that even though our "frozen" shares are already counted as issued and outstanding, they will not be tradable until the conversion within our accounts occurs. I am thinking that that will be on the 19th. At that point some unknown millions of shares will begin trading, and which direction that takes is the big question.
Look on the statistics page of the company stock quote, you will see the current outstanding shares at 182.5 million shares, and the market capitalization at $7.3 million. Before the split the market cap was barely $5 million. The split has taken place already according to their last sec filing, and the current pps is responsible for the market cap. 182.5 million x the .04 pps. Those are facts, so make of it what you will.
Well, Nobody knows what the stock pps will be when it is issued to us in a few days, but the fact is that the split has already taken place. Check the current outstanding shares, and the market capitalization. The current OS is 182.5 million and the market cap is $7.3 million.
Those who owned ZPPB on the record date, will not by able to trade the new shares until they are issued, but the fact is they are considered outstanding shares and are counted toward the market capitalization. The act of issuing the new stock should not in any way change the pps. What may indeed affect the pps, is if when we can finally trade the shares, will be sell or hold, that will probably be the deciding factor for the pps.
Since this stock split is being treated as a dividend, I believe that the new shares will not show up in our trading accounts until feb. 19, that is the last listed payment date for the 2 for 1 dividend.
You're welcome. Did you notice that the market capitalization has almost doubled? This is because the stock is trading at almost double the old pps. In my opinion, this is a sleeping giant about to be awakened. GLTA
The shares that you have are being converted to the new shares, of which you will have at least two times the amount. Once they are converted, this may take 3 days I think, you will see them in your account with the new ticker symbol, ZPPBD. At that point you can trade them. Also let me point out that you can BUY and SELL the stock now,under the new symbol, just not the ones that were bought earlier, due them being in the process of conversion. Be patient, they will come in soon.
My only concern at this point is that there probably are many others out there who have also accumulated many millions of shares who are going to be "dumping" as soon as this starts to rise. The effect could be similar to those conversion shares. Just hoping we all can use some restraint on selling too quickly.