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Actually, Ive been hosed more by the rise in the Canadian $ than Ive been hurt by PTI. Bought most of my shares at a 60% markup which is only worth 15% these days LOL. Perhaps I should sue my government?
Ok so for a guy who hasnt quite been there from the beginning (I first invested in '99) can you fill me in on a few things.
Did the initial pump of PTI rate equal to the potential of the product? Certainly blame can be levied against the likes of LB for only so much. So when those first investors were coerced into buying, was there fair reason to expect success?
As is also thrown around on this board - Dont invest in pennies with money you cant afford to lose.
I first bought into PTI at .40. I have never seen a chart showing the company to be anywhere near $5. And why is it sadder for those who bought at $5 than it is happier to those who bought in at .02? What if the future holds $20 a share? The bashers would have as much explaining to do as the pumpers should have had to do in the first place.
The effect of pumpers and bashers 'on threads like these' is exactly that, what does threads like these mean? On the PTI board, which has what, 10 posters, no they dont have an effect (with the exception of scaring off new investors with old news, which is a whole 'nother type of disgusting). But on more followed boards, you bet they do, and by coincidence, thats where you'll find most of them, reaching the larger audience.
As for the rest, I didnt disagree with what hasher said. I already said that.
Personally I read these boards, at the most, to get a feeling of what others are thinking. As they say, do your own DD. This can be applied to new issues as well. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Just buy at the bottom and ride the uptrend I keep hearing. Im still waiting for someone to show me how to do that. But many will tell me that they do. Guess how many of them I believe?
'More pumpers are responsible for people losing money than bashers are.'
'Take responsibility for your own actions.'
You cant have it both ways hasher. I think the secondary should take precidence. Its what I try to live by. Its too bad we have to put up with bashers and pumpers in the mix.
Typical reply.
Every type of personality and posting style is mentioned
I believe I said that in the original post.
They miss the fact that pumpers and touts do exactly the same thing.
Of course they miss that fact. This comment is about bashers, pumpers are a totally different topic. Besides, we all know how terrible it is when pumpers make the price go up and we all make money.
As for the rest of your comments, I dont disagree. Although...
I guess you see the bright side
...No actually I try to see all sides good or bad.
As I said in the original post, It is a fun read. Im sorry if you took it personally or too seriously, I did not intend to direct it at anyone particular.
Of course if you are a basher then you reacted exactly the way the article said you would and I have broken a cardinal sin by replying to you. LOL
Here's some fun reading. A case can be made for almost every point in either direction. It describes most posters at one time or another (I guess we're all bad:). From goldmining05.
How to recognize Stock bashers on Message boards, newsgroups and in chat rooms.
LEARNING is a process and an evolution. Learning is not all fluff. Learning is a process of awareness and unfolding development; one must be willing to work at it though.
A year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any affect on a stock. They ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an affect on a stock!
A truth: IT IS EASIER TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO SELLING THAN IT IS TO INFORM PEOPLE INTO BUYING A STOCK.
Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and ""shorts" (some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit.
Now think about that, you have elderly that invest and find their way to the message boards only to see false posts about "SEC Violations" and "Class action suits" or you have a Yuppie with a kid to put in college going to these message boards only to see posts by 15-20 (probably 5 or 6 under alias) "pack of shorts" posting the same false stuff about SEC Violations or lawsuits or "there's bad news coming out" ....what do you think they will do ?
It's easier to sell the stock and put the money into the bank for nervous people like the elderly and the Yuppie who needs college funds. THAT'S WHO THE PACK OF SHORTS PRAY ON AND DEPEND ON. They bet on a stock to go down-not up! Understand? And they have just as much money and risk as you. But they have the edge of fear, lies, falsehoods to post and pray on the nervous. Longs don't have that.
Lesson 1: Remember, BASHERS NEVER BASH A BAD STOCK. Watch the board for stocks with no potential. They never have any bashers. Bashers only go after stocks that are going upwards or have excellent potential to go up. Bashers get left behind, so they want to bring the price down.
Lesson 2: BASHERS ALWAYS BRING UP OLD NEWS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES. New startup companies always have a few bits of bad news. The basher will post this over and over again. The stupid basher will try to make the old news a bit fresher to try to fool you.
Lesson 3: BASHERS POST MANY TIMES A DAY. They try to wear you out. They comment on everything, every other post, and can answer every question. THEY KNOW IT ALL! There is no positive comment they won't bash. They try to control the board. True longs may have to address the bashers or they will appear to the newbies as being the people with all the information.
Lesson 4: BASHERS WILL LIE TO YOUR FACE. Never trust a basher. The truth on startup companies is that many mistakes are made and losses happen. The basher will try to make you believe all startup companies make a profit, release financials every quarter and all aspects of the business run smoothly. THIS IS NOT TRUE. THE BASHERS LIE TO YOU. Startup companies can go years without profits, financials and good business, this is the nature of the beast.
Lesson 5: The bashers know YOU CAN'T VERIFY THEIR STATEMENTS. That's why they make the statements they do.
Lesson 6: The bashers PLAY ON YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. They can lie about information and you couldn't know the difference (unless you have done your assessment of the company and know the truth and facts).
Lesson 7: Bashers play on your lack of patience. YOU have held a penny stock for a while. You knew it will be a big penny stock someday, but the BASHER CAN GET TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOUR GAIN . That's when the basher is best. You are tired. You have forgotten the goal for the penny stock was to hold it for one year. The basher is bothersome, so you dump it on a bad day. Some others also dump. Then you get mad for your loss and return to let everyone know how mad you are. Then you turn into a basher as well. THE BASHER HAS WON, AND GAINED A NEW PARTNER TOO, to be able to get in at a great price.
Lesson 8: BRING THE PRICE DOWN. That is the basher's job. The truth is not important. Lies are the norm. Post continuously on the board every day. They are trying to hit the newbies visiting the board. They are trying to wear out the longs on the board. They do whatever it takes to wear the longs out.
Lesson 9: BASHERS WILL TRY TO CREATE DOUBT AND GET YOU TO RESEARCH ITEMS THAT THEY KNOW WILL LEAD TO THE CREATION OF DOUBT IN YOU AND IN OTHER STOCKHOLDERS. A typical trick of an advanced basher is to propose that there is a potential "problem" because "we" don't have the facts on a particular subject. The basher dares someone in the group to find out the answer to the question. The basher already knows the answer; the basher already knows what will be found. The power of this tactic is that the basher is now in control of the actions of the stockholders; the basher has you, the stockholder doing HIS/HER due diligence and when you, the stockholder come back to the group with a questionable finding then the basher gains credibility. What to do??? Solution??? Well, I think it's important to find answers but on your own terms. I actually pick up the phone and call the company and talk to the investor relations person or the CEO until I get a satisfactory answer. The problem here is that the advanced basher has you doing his bidding and his work; you have essentially joined his ranks. So, develop your own little Due Diligence package and answer questions by placing the information into the package and referring all new investors to read the answers to questions raised in the Investor Information package but DON'T GET INTO A CONVERSATION WITH THE BASHER REGARDING THE TOPIC. THAT IS WHERE YOU LOSE. DON'T CONVERSE WITH THE BASHER; ANSWER INDIRECTLY; DON'T USE THE BASHERS NAME; DON'T GET INTO A PERSONALITY CONTEST.
A BASHERS HANDBOOK: know the enemy who wishes to steal your money! Do not underestimate a bashers influence on a stock. The Pro's are good at what they do and what they do is profit from your losses. Below is their "hand-book" so to speak. Learn from it or donate your money to those who make an organized plan to steal your money!
BASHERS DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. Be anonymous
2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility toyour suggestions.
3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a support base before initiating your bashing routine.
4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.
5. Use multiple ISP's, handles and aliases.
6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.
7. Do not start with an all out slam of the stock. Build to it.
8. Identify your foes (hypsters) and the boards "guru" Use them to your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.
9. Only bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the rest of the way.
10. Give the appearance of being open minded.
11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.
12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.
13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.
14. Don't worry about being labeled a "basher". Newbies won't know your history.
15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is a weak in reasoning powers.
16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.
17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.
18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to reinforce facts.
19. DO NOT LIE, DO NOT NAME CALL and DO NOT USE PROFANITY.
20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won't. They'll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.
21. Discourage people for taking the companies word for anything. Encourage them to call the company. They won't out of laziness.
22. If the companies history/PR's are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.
23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.
24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.
25. Always cite low volume, even when it's not.
26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.
27. Bait the hypsters into personal debates putting their focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert their attention from facts. Show them the facts from a "different angle."
28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to instead of the one your bashing.
30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it's a game and you are playing it with your own rules.
GRADE YOUR FAVORITE BASHER:
Advanced Basher:
Will join the message board early and actually "pump" the stock with positives; this basher is very intelligent, has the facts of the company, actually helps longs with Due Diligence and generally gets the confidence of the stockholders. Then, when the stock hits their price, the tone will change and they will start asking longs to check into this and check into that. The seeds of doubt are being planted. This basher will then start using all the tactics listed on this page to create seeds of doubt. ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF A PERSON YOU SUSPECT. ASK WHAT STOCKS THEY'VE "SUPPORTED" IN THE PAST AND CHECK OUT THE MESSAGE BOARD. An honest person will have a positive track record that can be followed. I strongly believe that a contrary view is needed but this person is out to steal your money and does it by deception and creates fear after gaining confidence! BEWARE, this is the most clever basher and the hardest to spot.
Grade A Basher:
Posts lots of old news, responds to all positive posts with a negative side. Never responds to being called a basher, never posts on another board. Can spend up to 80 hours a week bashing a stock.
Grade B Basher:
Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.
Grade C Basher:
Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.
Grade D Basher:
Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week. Grade F Basher: A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.
WHY BASH?: MONEY (the usual reason), SPORT, ENTERTAINMENT. Some bashers are compelled to bash because they are inherently a part of the dark side of life so they must do it. It's a sad fact but never the less, a fact. It's life so you must learn how to deal with it or become a victim!
LEARN ABOUT HOW STOCK BASHERS WORK: how they are paid: (this was written by a basher) I know the following from a "friend" who needed extra money. I never answer a basher directly because I then become a basher's little money machine. IGNORE THEM FOLKS...how bashers are paid: When you REPLY to bashers you give them an opportunity to earn 5-7 bucks. The service agreement they enter into with their employer states their messages will be monitored for content, profanity, lies, etc. but Money Manager's and the like don't have the time to check all their bashers messages. Only occasional spot checks are done. Those who manage the basher will generally read the headlines to see if a basher is replying to other posters by name. That tells them the basher isn't just "posting blindly" or repeating the same message over and over since they won't pay for those. A basher will attempt to milk three to five replies per post at one to two dollars each. This way the basher spreads negative influence to as many stockholders as possible. A basher will create this discussion thread because it takes less time reading more messages than is necessary. This ultimately allows the basher more time to post and make money. In general, NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER. Make them read all the posts and think up ways to enter the discussion.
NEVER ENGAGE A STOCK BASHER; if you do so then YOU BECOME THE BASHER'S AID!
Read the news, do your own homework and make your own decisions. Get real time quotes and follow the stock for a couple of weeks. Due Diligence is key here. Know that there will be a time when the stock runs up which will be followed by the Bashers and those that missed the boat. The bashers will trash the stock by saying such things as "it's a Pump and Dump" and "the company is lying" and deceiving. There goal is to scare off newbies and potential new investors by "shaking" you out of your shares. Take the time to confirm your Due Diligence, ,trust your own judgment and believe in yourself, pick your point of return or loss and live with it. Don't listen to hype or bashers and live by the rules you have created.
35000 have traded between .077 and .08. I think there is something wrong with OB quotes today. Level II was down this morning.
http://investdb.theglobeandmail.com/invest/investSQL/gx.symbol_rep?pi_symblist=pwtc
Unfortunatle this site does not show depth.
Many a company/country has let a good thing fall by the wayside either so as not to step on their principles or to move in a direction of a 'better thing' even though the signs are pointing to something else.
I think it might be the MM's/investors coming back from the holiday break. Yesterday on EPYH, there were very few MMs even present, and the B&A gap throughout the day was .006 bid to .01 ask, quite unusual. Today more MMs have shown up and filled that gap. I think the same thing happened here as well as on many other listings.
Hmm, lots of pinkie and OB stocks I watch are way up today. Early year recovery? Investors coming back to the markets?
Im waiting for the predicted .05:) I dont think we're gonna see it this time. Im in good shape cost wise and have $$ sitting on the side. Might just load up for some short term runs though.
I appreciate and share your optimism but dont forget that the share lockup is about to expire (although in a limited structured way). Moving forward we will see how dedicated management is to the BP. If the selling off increases in the next few months way may know that the same old game is on again.
See also this post for point of view on management.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=9058271
No debt? Except for about 2 billion in the OS. Lets hope we see a penny again.
Yeah thats a fun site isnt it. One day it says strong buy, the next its strong sell. Thats what happens when you try to incorporate too many indicators into a recommendation. I like American Bulls too. Based solely on trading data, they produce daily buy and sell recommendations, unfortunatly too late for anyone to react on them. What they dont account for in their errors is the investor being on the wrong side of a trade due to one of their incorrect recommendations. They just continue pumping out the data as if you had esp to know that they were wrong and didnt make the last trade recommended. The chart on the right side of the page shows how much $100 could be now if you followed their system. It doesnt account for the losses you would have occurred along the way by following their bad recommendations.
Gee, look, Americal Bulls says 'buy confirmed'? Completely opposite of what they other guys say! LOL I certainly hope no one is trading on data produced by these sites.
http://www.americanbulls.com/StockPage.asp?CompanyTicker=PWTC&MarketTicker=OTC&TYP=S
Case and point of how scientific information changes over the years. Oops, we were wrong again. And the studies will probably change again next year!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060104.wxhpop04/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth....
Everyone needs to keep this fact in sight. New battery technologies have been 'coming' to market for an even longer period of time than the world has been trying to 'get the lead out!' The latest advances in batteries explode in your cell phone and cause cancer. Not much better than anything that currently exists. There is still an ample market for PTI's batteries. Get over it already.
Thanks credo, good info. Yes Im quite aware of all that is going on with lead. The gift just made me wonder about it from a different point of view. In a world where drugs which kill you as a side effect are being approved, and just breathing is harmful to your health, and with the rates at which information changes and how long it actually takes to get something approved or banned, Im just wondering if this is really such a imminent concern? I have to agree with some of the other posts that lead will be around for a while anyway.
A Christmas gift got me to thinking. There has been talk in the past here about the government banning the use of lead in certain products so why go forward with a lead battery. Lead has been banned for use in paint and blinds (and really its the paint on the blinds that was the problem) due to the fact that flaking of the product occurrs and the flakes may be inhaled causing health problems. A friend of mine received a crystal vase for Christmas, which is high in lead content (the higher the lead content the better quality crystal!), which got me to thinking about this problem. When I thought about the possibility of getting lead poisoning from the vase I realised that no flaking occurred. The same principle could be applied to batteries. I have never heard of anyone getting sick from exposure to batteries so is the fact that there is lead in PTI's batteries really a problem (because it is sealed), or are batteries even high on the government's list of problem lead areas? Of course the environmental waste exposure is another topic completely.
Pretty picky on the trades today. Judging by the volume, or lack there of, Im guessing the market has chosen to ignore the financing news.
0.0736 5000 OBB 14:13:26
0.0725 5000 OBB 13:54:27
0.0725 5000 OBB 13:51:19
0.0725 10000 OBB 13:43:28
0.074 10000 OBB 12:11:42
0.074 9000 OBB 10:59:20
0.074 1000 OBB 10:59:17
0.074 700 OBB 10:38:08
0.078 1200 OBB 09:30:02
The financing is good ONLY if the company uses the money to move forward and provide the final breakthrough to production. If financing $$ are missused, then it really doesnt matter who you are or whom you borrowed from.
I too think the terms are decent. It allows both the company and financier to benefit in the event of a success. The financier does stand to benefit regardless of the outcome but that is a standard in the world of financing. If there was zero benefit to the financier at all, you would see little financing going on especially in the world of startups.
Who's BJ Walker?
We are in the final month of PWTC's fiscal year.
Ahh yes Mr Rooster. I thank you for reminding us yet again. For those who jumped on PTI last spring for not having a prototype to a testing company by end of Q1 (aaand we all know how that turned out;p and to those who jumped in the last few weeks about now being into production by end of year, I say to you THERE IS STILL HOPE!!!
Ok, its a thin branch but its the only one we have. Stranger things have happened.
So then really all this 'progress' we're making in making the financial markets a safer place are really just taking more money out of my pocket (via taxes) to develop, implement and execute these new laws without there ever being a chance of helping the guy who really needs it the most get any of his money back? Why bother? Sounds like an LB scam.
OT (except maybe for hasher:). Something to break the boredom.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/
But do you think it will amount to anything? Ive heard for years now of all the reforms of the markets. I see a few more bad guys in jail (ala Enron and such biggies) but no victories in regard to any investors seeing any of their misused money come back to them, aside from some small wins by debenture holders.
Happy New Year all, sorry about that 'coming in with a bang' post. So here we are into another year and nothing has changed. All the usual posters are blasting each other about the lack of dotted i's and crossed t's. I dont think Ive seen a single post yet that looked at the recent news as a whole. Its easy to pick apart something when you only quote the parts you want and then spin them to your liking.
So where is PTI?
Still hanging on the precipice as I see it. We're anxiously waiting for some kind of developments over in Taiwan, another questionable financing deal is announced, and the stock price fails to provide any real direction of where things are going. Hurry up and wait is what we'll have to do. Still signs of a possible future, still signs of an impending demise. Place your bets folks, here comes the 2006 chapter of As The Battery Cranks:)
The same way management feeds themselves by P&Ding for pennies at a time. Short tons (or sell off), buy back tons, short tons(or sell off), buy back tons. Make $1000-$10000 a trade. Senseless isnt it???? Its the same reasoning Ive been yelling about for the past 4 years here. Completely #%^@ senseless when they could just build even a slightly viable company and sell huge at $1+ for 10 times the profit. Build a great company (back in '99 when there was only 20mm OS), and they could have hit $20 a share. Everyone coulda been rich years ago, BEFORE LB got his shares too!!!(wouldnt that have been great). OOOh the missed opportunities for the sake of a few free pennies. Like I said - 'Its a special kind of greed'. Are ya catching on yet credo? After all, you were a direct victim of the stupidity.
Hi all, hope you had a great Christmas.
Well the shares are available to be dropped on the market I have to wonder about managements point of view. If I were management I would be rather disappointed at having a .06- .10 stock price a year after locking up (which was about .04 when they did). Wouldnt surprise me a bit to see LB's greed sell his shares immediatly but I think others expected more. The unknown we have is whether the preceedings that BJW has begun are legit and will move forward, or not. Management probably already knows this and will sell or contimue to hold depending on what they know. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Im off again, I dont have much computer access where I am. See you all Monday.
Not sure actually. Here's the website where I found the pic.
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.batterseaparkzoo.co.uk/Images/baby%2520otters.jpg&a...
The pic posting info? Yeah some, needed to be {chart}{chart} though, with the correct brackets (or maybe I just misunderstood the directions). up-down, from another board pointed me to the testing ground till I got it right.
Tks
Thanks, theyre soooo cute. I did like this pic better but someone else is already using it. I thought the life preserver was appropriate for PTI:)
Hi
Of course you are accounting for the fact that no one really knows who truthtelller really is, especially considering all the aliasing and spoofing that goes on, so we really dont know for a fact that he/she has or has not been banned?
PR's sure get the chatter going on here. Been some great informative posts here lately. Nothing like a little speculation to get folks digging.
Finally, thanks dude. I like the life preserver one, it kinda fits with PWTC.
test
Im scared. He almost makes sense in this one. Logistically anyway.
http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=PWTC&read=46161
PS Truthtelller - Dont plagerize my quotes unless youre gonna print the whole thing;) Making an unwilling participant part of your half truths is pretty low. But I guess that's why you've been banned from here.
Possible.
Not unusual.
Im for sale for $5.
The stock would be halted, news released, and reopen likely near the offer price. In that aspect only those who bought previous to the notion would benefit the most.
There are all kinds of possibilities.
I think a buyout would be the least beneficial. Market frenzy would provide much more upside in this particular case.
I give up.