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You're right they do take time but I think they've been working on this for a few months already, filing the law suits had to be done in order to cover their bases. I don't think we are that far out at this point. Geithner needs to show progress and this stands in the way. JMO
29.2 Billion pays commons $10.50 per share, pays preferreds in full and the 7.8 Billion in debt. When JPM offered $8 pps it was for the whole company, bank and subs, no more independent WMI. So it's my opinion is that something similar to that is on it's way. This way JPM and the FDIC can put this to bed. JPM can sell off the additional assets, or the FDIC will retain them and sell them off. In order for the the country's financial system to recover and for the US treasury departments plan for the super FDIC to be put in place this needs to be settled. Just my opinion
Z, do you think the bonds are included in the 7.8 billion liability number? In other words is the 7.8 billion the total debt?
Can anyone tell me if the bonds are included in the 7.8 billion dollars in debt?
WMI was a 307 billion dollars company with 32 billion dollars in assets, WMI wants to be paid for the difference of what WMI has now and the 32 billion plus damages. The banks are gone never coming back.
I don't think that is what is being said here, JMO
The legislation, introduced late Thursday by Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, would temporarily allow the FDIC to borrow $500 billion to replenish the fund it uses to guarantee bank deposits, if the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department concur. Those funds would be distinct from the contentious $700 billion financial-sector bailout, which lawmakers are loathe to expand.
[Coming Up Short chart]
The FDIC can presently only borrow $30 billion from Treasury. The bill would permanently raise that level to $100 billion, which the FDIC could tap without prior approval from the Fed and Treasury.
the 100 Billion can be had without prior approval
Lawrence, If you're watching this whole situation playing as I am, not just WMI, FDIC and JPM, now you add in the Sec. Of the US treasury Geithner, and his recent statements. And Now Obama's involved.
"The President also wants to convey to the chief executives his view that the Government and Wall Street have "all got to be in this thing together", Mr Goolsbee said." At the meet at JD was at.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5987581.ece
I really believe they want WMI gone, and they want this situation gone. I think this is all closer to happening then we think.
So you think he's ( Pres. Obama) telling Dimon to cooperate with the FDIC to make this go away?
I'm not a premium member, but I remember it to be one of Z's postings, I think he was talking about the equity qroup's need to find a lawyer, and he said maybe we could use this guys. I know it know help, but I dod appreciate your posting the L2's
Thanks Chop
So what does this mean to EESO?
Big, I understood what you were saying, but I think this is different from the AIG bonus situation, could you imagine the reaction of the stock market if the US GOV, said to the shareholders, you are not allowed to profit from you shares? Money would flow out of Wall Street like Niagara Falls. I just don't see that happening. JMO
WHHHAAAA HOOOOOOOOOO! Go WAMU!
Let the rest of the country hate me, I'll be able to afford it...
They like me now and I can't afford squat.
To much damage has been done to the WaMu bank structure to undo it. Paying Us Big Money Is The Only Way To Fix It. JMO
Jay80,
I'm sorry to hear you lost money on the seizure, have you considered buying back in to re-coop your loss, I know once bitten twice shy, but that may be your best option. JMO
Now on CNBC news all they are saying is the JPM sued WMI and the FDIC, no mention what so ever to the WMI vs FDIC suit.....
You're right about that Biz, Hey what do cops do, they turn the criminals against each other, then they can't spill the beans fast enough to save their azz. Things are looking real good.
Yo check this out...did your leader lie to you,or did they just lie to the court?
During the consummation conference call, Jamie Dimon disclosed that JPM had unprecedented access to WaMu’s mortgage detail. JPM received computer tapes with the most granular mortgage detail (FICO scores, LTVs, and MSAs) to compare with their own data and develop loss projections. JPM had the time to do a true bottom up analysis.
Taken from a Alpha Seeking article from 9/28/09
http://seekingalpha.com/article/97717-did-the-fdic-sabotage-wamu-s-management-and-erode-investor-confidence
Remember this?
During the consummation conference call, Jamie Dimon disclosed that JPM had unprecedented access to WaMu’s mortgage detail. JPM received computer tapes with the most granular mortgage detail (FICO scores, LTVs, and MSAs) to compare with their own data and develop loss projections. JPM had the time to do a true bottom up analysis.
Taken from a Alpha Seeking article from 9/28/09
http://seekingalpha.com/article/97717-did-the-fdic-sabotage-wamu-s-management-and-erode-investor-confidence
I bet Bair is feeling a bit betrayed....I can hear her now...JD you said everything would be ok, that you would protect me, that we would run away together.. and now you're stabbing me in the back you SOB.. there's no fury like a woman scorned. Let's see how long before she turns on him.
JPM just hung the FDIC out to dry........
Is this a Bar document?
Great Job WAMUERS! You Guys and Gals kick some major but on this site, FDIC attacked by zombie WaMu
http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/03/fdic_attacked_by_zombie_wamu.php
You make me soooooo proud!
STOCK ANALYSIS - INVESTOPEDIA Forbes Digital Digest
http://community.investopedia.com/news/IA/2009/WaMu-Set-To-Sue-WAMUQ0323.aspx
WaMu Set To Sue (WAMUQ)
March 23, 2009 | By Derek Simon
There's an old saying: "If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck … it's probably a duck." Yet, as most of us know, not everything is what it appears to be. In other words, one person's omelet is another person's brain on drugs (as I learned from those illuminating public service announcements of the late 1980s).
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So, when the Office of Thrift Supervision shut down Washington Mutual Bank on September 25, 2008, and handed its assets over to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), which subsequently sold them to JPMorgan Chase (NYSE:JPM) for $1.9 billion. It could have been that JPMorgan had just been the fortunate recipient of an uncommonly good opportunity, but the deal still had an air of quackery.
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When I learned that government officials had made the deal in private, I was even less certain that I'd seen a duck, especially in light of the fact that JPMorgan Chairman and CEO James Dimon had made no secret of his desire to obtain the banking behemoth.
"We are building a company," Dimon told the New York Times shortly after the sale. "We are kind of lucky to have this opportunity to do this. We always had our eye on it."
And with good reason, it would seem. With $307 billion in assets at the time, Washington Mutual Bank was the largest savings and loan in the country. By way of comparison, IndyMac Bank (OTC:IDMCQ) had just $32 billion in assets when it was shut down. Yet IndyMac, which was purchased by a seven-member group of investors headed by Steven T. Mnuchin, co-chief executive of Dune Capital Management, and Michael Dell, the founder of Dell Inc. (Nasdaq:DELL), sold for $13.9 billion. It reminds me of those old V8 commercials: I picture Mnuchin and Dell slapping their foreheads, exclaiming, "We could've had a Washington Mutual."
Rush to Judgment?
Not surprisingly, the "Blue Light Special" that JPMorgan appears to have received on the Seattle-based bank did not escape the notice of many past and present shareholders of its parent company, Washington Mutual Inc. (OTC:WAMUQ), which was forced to declare bankruptcy immediately following the sale of its largest subsidiary. On Friday, WaMu's bankruptcy counsel sued the FDIC for a reported $17 billion plus damages, alleging "fraudulent conveyance", among other things. (Find out why this corporation was developed and how it protects depositors from bank failure in The History Of The FDIC.)
Debt and Taxes
Still, it's hard to say what effect a lawsuit will ultimately have. To begin with, there is the question of how much Washington Mutual is actually worth these days. A story that ran in the Puget Sound Business Journal on October 2, 2008, asserts that "at least part" of the $32.9 billion in assets listed in WaMu's Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is company stock - stock that is now trading for less than the price of a half-dozen thoughts. That's about 6 cents per share for those in desperate need of a decimal point, up from around 4 cents per share on March 20. What's more, in addition to the $8.2 billion in debt that Washington Mutual acknowledged at the time it went belly-up, the IRS claims the company owes another $12.5 billion in back taxes, although WaMu disputes this.
It gets worse.
The state of Washington also wants cash from WaMu, as it seeks $24.1 million in unpaid sales and business taxes. Heck, even Microsoft (Nasdaq:MSFT) has gotten into the act.
"We have existing contracts for software licenses and consulting services with Washington Mutual and we want to make sure those contracts are properly administered through the bankruptcy process," Microsoft spokesman David Bowermaster told the Puget Sound Business Journal following the software giant's October court filing.
Fighting the Feds
Then, of course, there is the issue of winning a lawsuit against a federal agency - a David versus Goliath type of endeavor in which David is limited to spit balls rather than stones.
"Congress gave the FDIC authority to take over banks," noted Steve Berman, a managing partner of Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro LLP, in the October 9 edition of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "I can't imagine there would be an avenue to sue them."
Nonetheless, there is a precedent for such legal action. In 1993, The First City Bancorporation of Texas filed a $3 billion suit against the FDIC arguing that it "had acted arbitrarily by declaring the banking company insolvent in October 1992 and seizing its assets," the New York Times reported. First City Bancorp and the FDIC later reached an undisclosed settlement.
Unlike the WaMu case, however, the FDIC sold the First City banks for $430 million more than the value of its deposits. "That helped cut our costs a great deal," Andrew Porterfield, a spokesman for the FDIC told the Times. (Find out how these government agencies govern the financial markets in Financial Regulators: Who They Are And What They Do.)
The Last Word
So what does a lawsuit mean to Washington Mutual bondholders and shareholders? Well, for the former, the effect would seem to be negligible, at least until all the various creditors' claims are sorted out. The latter, however, could see a bump in share prices, especially if WaMu is granted a jury trial as it has requested.
Investors who've watched their portfolio values erode quicker than dignity on a reality television program aren't complaining. After all, a penny earned is a penny saved.
By Derek Simon
a very large number of WaMu customers are angry at suddenly banking with Chase. I'm quite sure that this news is not going to make them any happier.
JP Morgan Needs Two New Private Jets
Jamie Dimon has clearly decided he has no intention of ever becoming Treasury secretary:
Embattled bank JPMorgan Chase, the recipient of $25 billion in TARP funds, is going ahead with a $138 million plan to buy two new luxury corporate jets and build "the premiere corporate aircraft hangar on the eastern seaboard" to house them, ABC News has learned.
Apparently JP Morgan has promised to repay the $25 billion before it buys the two brand-new G-650s. So much for the importance of giving TARP funds to healthy banks. And what about the $30 billion in non-recourse loan guarantees that JP Morgan got from the Fed when it bought Bear Stearns?
This isn't only about government money, though as Ryan Chittum notes:
Let's not forget the shareholders, who bear the brunt of this kind of corporate spending with little say in it.
There's simply no conceivable way in which these jets represent a necessary and legitimate business expense. They would have been an extremely lavish and barely-justifiable perk in good times; in bad times, they look like nothing so much as a calculated affront to JP Morgan's customers. $138 million would fully fund $500 overdraft facilities for a quarter of a million Americans, with $13 million left over for waiving bank fees. Anecdotally, a very large number of WaMu customers are angry at suddenly banking with Chase. I'm quite sure that this news is not going to make them any happier.
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2009/03/23/jp-morgan-needs-two-new-private-jets
Amen to that if it drops below .029 I plan to load up bigtime!
Rockie you've been around here for a long time and by now you got to know it's the MM's controlling this stock. When the stock is on the rise at say .05 pps and the bid at .049 and the next thing you see is a sell for less than the bid at say .045 only the MM's have that power to do that. Why would an investor such as your self in that same situation sell stock below the bid. It's pure manipulation. Do yourself a favor,chill and watch it play out, I know you are not a basher please don't feed them.
To the Victor goes the spoils GO WAMUU!
It's also to prevent a hostile takeover by JPM buying up the stocks on the cheap and claiming ownership. JMO
WAMUQ et al, are trading on the pink sheets because of the BK! Can anyone list 5 other companies on the pinks the have 4 Billion Dollars cash in the bank? Other than maybe Lehman Bros.... Drop this pink sheet crap, the only thing it has to do with WAMUQ et al, is that we are being manipulated by the MM's, and there is nothing we can do about it. WAMUQ et al are not pinks sheet stocks!
GOOO WAMUUUU!
Wamu pref'ds at face value and and commons at $10 equals 21 billion, debt equals 7.8 billion that totals 28.8 Billion. You said that JPM's offer of $8 pps was for WMI when it was whole. I believe the the FDIC seized a solvent bank. If that is true then the value is that of a solvent bank. Even if it was insolvent considering the price the FDIC got for Indymac, I believe supports the 28.8 Billion number. Wachvoia was 15.4 Billion.
The fact that the economy has change since 9/25/08 is irreverent. What counts is what the value was in September 2008.
WMI has 4 billion in cash, plus unknown assets, plus the NOL. It's my opinion that 28.8 Billion dollar settlement is very realistic.
Because if you are negotiating a settlement, you want make every possible effort. I'm a negotiator that's what I do. I'll give CPR to a dead horse to make the deal.
In that case I think we go back to .025, where I buy more...
JPM bid was $8 wasn't it? Don't you think Wamu is worth more than Indymac and as much as Wacovia? Than I still say $10! People that say $2 to $4 are not looking at the facts.
Yak Yak Yak Yak, ok I made a mistake.
The total assets are now 4 to 7 billion approx. How can anyone think this will settle at 2 to 4 pps? There is a difference of 300 billion dollars between now and 6/30/09?
WMI Assets as of 6/30/09 was $309 Billion sorry I made a typo that's 6/30/08
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/drawFiling.asp?docKey=137-000104746908009146-3LHC7FD3JJ2I56DJVCP9H8G53A&docFormat=HTM&formType=10-Q
WMI's assets as of 3/31/2008 was 319 Billion, settling for a 9 or a 10 billion dollars is not going to happen.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/drawFiling.asp?docKey=137-000104746908006433-25E0UGP17OI3BS4PRGA1NVDIKR&docFormat=HTM&formType=10-Q