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so you want a different answer, huh?? lets say I believe there are enough people that believe, and will create enough demand to drive the stock higher..
restricted shares ARE common shares, they just have a restricted legend on the cert. just so you know.
so it is beaten to death by me, but not by Ren, (who is going post for post with me) since he is a loyal believer?
however, with new looks at the issue comes new insight which may prove invaluable. I do not believe it is in your job description to conclude when a topic has no information left to be uncovered. It is not like we have 10-k's or q's to refer to.
Ren, the fact that the company issued two options as addendums to the preferred shares they had issued shows me that those options granted are specifically for the seller of the property, and is not a new class of preferreds. If It had been a new class of preferreds, the terms of the options would have been incorporated in the terms of the newly issued preferreds, and not subject to options written by the company to the property seller. What they appearantly did was use the existing preferreds, and modified the terms by use of the two options.
we are discussing an intergral part of the companies capitalization. is that a bad thing?
you are correct that if the holder converts, they believe that it is in their best interest to do so.
I still maintain that these preferreds issued will pay a dividend. Why else would they be accepted by the seller of the property as opposed to accepting common shares? Think about that... If a preferred does not pay a dividend, what is the advantage of having them? why go through the registration process of issueing a new class of preferreds??? As you should know, This is the definition of a PERC " Preferred stock that converts automatically into equity at a stated date. A limit is placed on the value of the shares the investor receives." from http://www.specialinvestor.com/terms/1513.html This is clearly NOT a PERC, since there is no limit on the value upon conversion, just a floor. AND it does not automatically convert....... The deed of sale will not tell you the structure of the preferred shares, nor should it. Since you do not see it in the deed, you should not assume they will not pay a dividend. they have outlined two options that the holder can exercise in the deed. It is not in the scope of the option(s) to spell out the terms of the preferreds.
I do not believe you had a good point in post 31382. You make the statement "Surely some of that liquidity comes initially from Preferred Shares or the sale of common shares, but that's what healthy companies do."
Healthy companies register their common shares with the SEC Before selling them.
if you bid 100 million at .06, I am sure you will see that happen.
so why are they giving the preferred holders the right to convert to shares of pbls,llc, when that is a subsidiary and does not trade, as per ren's assertions?
how does that convert at a 1 to 1 basis? it converts to common at the market price of PBLS stock, unless it is below .03 per share, if the holders of the preferreds wish to convert.That is CLEARLY not a 1 to 1 conversion. Let me spell it out for you. If the stock price is .05, they can convert 1 share of preferreds for 200 shares of common. if the price of pbls is .10, 1 preferred share converts to 100 common shares. Only if the stock is at $10 will it convert at a 1 to 1 ratio, The holders of the preferreds can put it back to the company, as preferred shares, at the $10 price. In the meantime, those preferreds DO pay a 6% dividend. This is pretty much the standard structure of a convertable preferred. I like the fact that it ian't convertable at a discount to market.
Your DD is appreciated,however your interpretaion of the facts are both faulty and laughable. I do not consider preferreds "evil". They are a perfectly legitimate form of capitalization. Of course, you will need to realize how they will be accounted for in the total share structure.
you really need to understand what a preferred share is. It is debt, an IOU, in the form of a common share. These preferreds do not convert. the $10 price is a par value. It means nothing other than to place a number in it. They pay a dividend. That is the interest payment. After a fixed period they can put the preferred back to the company for the $10. From the June 20th announcement (copied and pasted) "The purchase amounts were paid in cash and preferred shares, and owner of the preferred shares has the right to putt the preferred shares back to Phoenix for cash at any time after the fifth anniversary of the closing, or to continue to hold the preferred shares and earn a 6% quarterly dividend."
they have the right to putt... brilliant...
It is an in house note at 6%... nothing more, nothing less.
its a good thiing they own all that debt, otherwise our 10 year bonds, and therefore our mortgages would be about 1.5 bps higher.
interesting follow up question the professor posed based on manipulative leading questions designed to further his point. He must have forgotten the 14 hour work days, implorable conditions, child labor, sweatshops,slavery, black lung etc...
you forgot to mention that I bought more at .01
The preferreds are not convertable into common shares, according to mulshine and the company's press releases. They do not trade, and the $10 "value" is just a number. It is basically a promisory note from the company at 6% interest, with a balloon payment.
If they convert, then they are a different class of pref's than what they have used in the past.
basic 10% cash down deal since the preferreds do not convert.
most of those acquisitions were done with preferred shares.
what are pre-tax revenues?
These announcements are not why the stock is moving.
he would have very little to do with that, hopefully. The auditors and the comptroller/CFO would do that. I view this announcement and yesterdays as meaningless.
the cubs win the series when that happens
I guess all I can tell you is If you don't like my answers, have me subpoenaed
they dont have to report squat, and the price will reflect that until they report. Not short deltas. if you wanna scalp a mil, knock yourself out.
Not watching it at all today. Deltas???
ummm...is it not true that you are long because they have promised to BE a reporting company?
whether they sell shares or not has nothing to do with if the TA is gagged or not.
you never let me have any fun!
Twain was right.
Tedwitt, when I read your posts I am reminded of the famous quote attributed to Mark Twain: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt".
hope that works for you.
or saying "glad i jumped off that boat before it sank" I've said that alot more than what you're talkin about.
there will always be flippers or scalpers, give it .005 and you'll see stock.
that is going way too far.
no, it just was looking very tight on the supply side.
yeah, you should be a sensical basher, like me.
this is going to make you sick... some of that was me.
I'm just calling it like I see it...
I highly doubt that "in the bylaws" excuse.
everybody has to be somewhere.