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Fly Kiwi raf
To suggest that the funds were raised (in part at least as to travel ) on the premise that travel must occur and that if our advocate decides in his wisdom (which has been relied upon hitherto in its entirety)not to attend court and thus by implication the travel element of such funds have inappropriately been obtained by. Misrepresentation is frankly …… absurd
And it would be equally absurd for anyone to suggest “ I paid x into the fund - I now insist -no demand - you travel to the court to conduct this case in person because I paid part of that as travel costs
Are we being serious here ??
Marjac is the advocate it’s his decision as to how to conduct this case be it in person or remotely
Let’s put this another way round
If the court says in its wisdom this is going to be remotely conducted (and no one is going to court) do those who contributed expect/ insist upon a travel element refund ??
Any view on the merits of going or not going are of course able to be expressed …..
Have we not got more serious worries about the future of Amarin to embrace ?
Alm
Raf
I certainly consider Kiwi can assess from his perspective whether Marjac should or should not attend - he has the right to hold a view on this -as we all do
I agree with you entirely that the manner in which he first expressed that view was totally inappropriate and did him no service
Marjac is the advocate - it’s his call
Thanks for all your help I greatly appreciate it
Alm
Marjac attending oral arguments
Christmas 2021 and Amarin is at 3.50
It’s been a very tough year for us
Is there any point to all this I hub poster assassination???
Whether Marjac goes to court or not is at the end of the day his decision
We are all entitled to express a view
As a Court advocate I would go to court any day over zoom - but if Marjac considers he can best do this remotely then I agree completely with him
It’s his call - I respect him and his decision - no word of criticism should ever be uttered as too his decision
But surely we can all respect each other’s views on this matter
Happy Christmas all. And next year will be so much better - we all wish Marjac and the team the success they so rightly deserve
Alm
Sleven
Doubt though that they will bother to try sell the stuff… no point gearing up if it’s all going to fall down soon - which we rather hope it does
Alm
Apotex
Fighting for a very small piece of pie - which pie is being vigorously fought over in the courts -rule 60/infringement
Sit and wait awhile and see … they can come back at it can’t they when the dust has settled if they want to
Alm
Marjac
My view - and it’s mine - is that it would be ten times better your being there in person -
Whilst I know the world has moved to zoom meetings and the like - they are flat and impersonal
This is about fight and spirit and truth and justice - and you and north are our hope for justice I would want the judges to look you in the eyes in the flesh and hear your words delivered with feeling and passion
The judges will see you hear you watch you - they will do the same with the opposition - and seee their embarrassment and how they squirm
It’s too easy for things to be missed for direction to be lost -to hide behind a screen
I would chose in person anytime over zoom - please give it much further thought??
But I appreciate this may be out of your hands
Alm
Louiebluie
Thank you for the same
Let’s get this thing done !!!
Alm
Louiebluie /Marjac/north/great team
I just donated $1000
Least I am pretty sure i did
- but Louiebluie will you check it sent through ok just to be sure ??
Thank you all for your brilliance -Dedication - hard work -spirit
You deserve to triumph
Alm
Louiebluie
Thanks will now resolve payment - I am in Uk
And more than happy the boys have some treats to sustain and support them on the appeal - the very least we can all do
Alm
Louiebluie
Back from my trip
Can’t find link to contribute - could you post ??
Thank you
Alm
Marjac
But would they
Because if they utter the word “mistake “(albeit an inadvertent one) they in effect conceded that Du was misled by such
That is why (amongst other reasons ) have not replied on any substantive matter on Rule 60 but have had to rely on no standing
Their silence on cropping was their only option
(An interesting point arises - to avoid a guilty verdict on their deliberately cropping K table they could have fallen on the sword of mistake (FC -“we can see the cropping was someone’s mistake in assembling these documents
But it wasn’t us and we don’t know how it happened” )
But they have not chosen this route …
Marjac ….. by the way …. Have you had anyone look at the original physical document for K that was before the court ? If there was a hard copy before the DC ?
If not the electronic copy before the court ?
And then has anyone looked at what Du was presented with by generics- the cropped version And then the adopted version from Du
My forensic experience is that you can often establish (maybe even quickly through an expert in such matters HOW the Versions changed - in other words what way did some person / persons go about this task
Such may demonstrate the very careful and particular way in which the documents were manipulated to achieve the required result
Really worth looking at ….
Alm
/
Bouf/marjac /north
One thing that has been exercising my mind is that actually any appeal Court (FC)made aware that a judicial decision of a lower court which decision was based on a fraud /mistake perpetrated upon /before the lower court (DC) must - repeat must- act to set aside such a decision -
This must be irrespective of how this comes to the attention of the Appeal court
Let us use a criminal court case by way of example - but let’s keep it simple -
The defendant at trial is convicted of murder - the sole evidence for that trial is confession by the defendant (more than enough to convict)
(But that confession was obtained by torture and those who tortured the defendant send written affidavits to the appeal court admitting their torture of the defendant - (there is though no appeal before the appeal court when such admissions are received)
What does the appeal court do ?? — nothing????
Does the court say -Well we have no case before us - (akin to the rule 24 being lost ) yet we the appeal court are now aware that the confession was not true evidence (extracted by torture) - akin to the H expert evidence and K cropped table / not statistically significant and Mori stat error
The Amarin case mirrors this situation
If the judges have read the papers and see the fraud mistake for what it is whether they find Epadi has standing or not are they not duty bound to set aside the DC decision ???
Do the FC judges have no alternative but to act ??? -
Or can they now turn a blind eye to what has taken place and hide behind no standing and thus fail to act ….
Alm
Marjac
Found it - understood it had not been raised by opposition - but surprised by such particularly as their case is to undermine standing ( and as we exchanged in views a while back a very risky strategy but no doubt due to no answer to Rule 60 !!)
- happy you have it covered and under control
It’s going to be a great day …..
Alm
Marjac
Thanks
I will try find it !!
Hope it did not cause difficulty
Alm
Marjac
I tried to send you a private message over a technical issue relative to the case - don’t know if you got it … if not I will try and e mail you
Alm
Marjac
The really encouraging thing to be drawn from the listing of oral arguments is that this must surely have required the vetting of the case by judge or judges before it would be so listed
And thus that the judge or judges ascribe merit at least to the extent of requiring oral argument ??
If the view was of o merit there would be no listing for oral arguments
(Am I right? …. I have no direct knowledge of listing system / vetting for FC cases )
Alm
North
Thank you for being in Marjac’s corner -indeed for being in the corner for all of us
Your years of practice knowledge and wisdom will be of immeasurable assistance as will simply your being there to support your friend and colleague
I am in your debt and know that Marjac you and the team will have done great service for us all
Alm
Marjac
Singers mistakes -
He was cock sure of himself
He addressed the court in such a way that required an open court apology - made him look a fool
He was not prepared - either to be sidetracked by a hostile judge or as to how to counter it - he had no answer to the -how can the nova case be distinguished- (from memory that was what threw Singer into an out of control death spin
He did not lead the judges - he let one of them direct the case where this hostile judge wanted it to go
He did not know his case ….
He did not fight and loose he gave in and lost
You
I know will be prepared
Will know your case
Will not be sidetracked
Will fight your corner your case
You speak not as a cock sure advocate but as an advocate for truth and justice -
FC judges who actually read the case papers and hear this case can not and will not allow this injustice to stand
This case can only be lost if the judges close their eyes and do not read and close their ears and do not listen
The eyes and ears of Justice can never be closed to the sight and sound of injustice
Such a huge injustice through fraud and mistake can not be allowed to stand
Alm
Louiebluie
I am away a few days but will put in $1000 when I get back
Alm
Louiebluie
How much is needed in total ???
Alm
Marjac
Your words show just what a simply true hero you are
Alm
Marjac
Incredibly good news
You will own that day …. know it inside out backwards frontwards upside down
The path of Truth and fact … no one can divert you from this
Feb 11th will be a day you will always remember with great pride
Alm
RAF and fellow I hub members
It has been talked about before but what would be constructive would be for a shareholders grouping (as per I hub long retail shareholders) to join together as one
- Names and shareholding’s being listed in that group
The group appointing a cttee say of 3
We communicate privately by email as an e mail group
We agree via cttee decision what representations / concerns / demands we wish to make - weekly to the Amarin board
We kick up stink if we get ignored
I guess amongst such a group many millions of shares would be owned and we could communicate not only with the board but other shareholders of substance / activist groups
We no doubt would have to agree to confidential communications within such a group rather than making public such on a board
Desperate times require desperate measures
Confession - I don’t have the IT skills to organise / manage this but I suspect others here do
Epadi is a good example of what can be achieved by acting together
Epadi action is also a good example of a situation where shareholders ( on this board) want to understand the boards position on where they stand ( forgive the pun) on this case
Maybe this group acting with other pressure groups could kick ass on this and such topics as
Why No IR department
Why no PR department
Why not attempt to PR up any and all items of news /interest that will bolster Amarin perception
Why no news on simple things like an updating status chart on the EU countries app status
What is happening as board freeby shares -given SP? They don’t deserve any !!!
Why do we not get detailed status updates on infringement case - get it weekly updated
Why so many absolutely pathetic tweets
I could go on - sure we could all send to the ctte our thoughts for these and many other matters to be properly put to the board and other shareholders of length snd substance
Alm
Marjac
My thoughts on this -
Agree immediate injunction cessation of sales
But as to summary judgement /damages as to there being infringement - that would depend on whether court ruled that there was fraud - if mistake different outcome
The fraud the generics created allowed the generics to sell(infringe?) and damages thus should follow (but in the infringement proceedings ? Or on the back of a new and separate claim for damages arising out of fraud ??
But if mistake - then ok they sell via mistake but were those sales an infringement on the valid patents? - so the infringement case would proceed to trial
Note if judge in infringement allowed dismissal and you win then the appeal Amarin said they would mount on that issue (km referred) would be a walk over
Rough thoughts … needs further thinking through
Alm
Mrmainstreet
Just watch him do it ……
Du didn’t want to face up to recognising that she had been had - and by being had that she actually didn’t know much about science and the application of fact
finding lack of standing was her escape route
In her position as a judge she chose to ignore the law on standing
Any FC judge who reads the law on standing - as so admirably set out by Marjac will find standing for Epadi
And from then on Rule 60 will succeed
We need FC judges on our panel who will read the case who will uphold justice and who will recognise the true merits of the standing of Epadi and who will then wipe away the appalling injustice of DU’s invalidation of Amarin patents via the application of Rule 60
The case in front of the right panel (judges who do their job read the case and uphold the law) is in my lawyers view —-overwhelming
So we keep the faith
Alm
North
Thank you -I guess it puts the Amarin position into some form of perspective - the smart money is diving into a 3 trillion apple pie
Maybe the best policy would be for all our I Hub group of friends here ( including me ) on Amarin to go to sleep for a year or two and wake up hoping we got back to 10 SP
But I will set my alarm for the Marjac party - I would not miss “our (really his) day in court” for all the world - That boy deserves all our love and attention
and I might just stir to take in Judge Andrew’s decision -
and possibly our new active investors might do something to raise an eyelid -here’s hoping -whilst they are wondering why they bought in at 5 or 6 when they could have got twice the shares for 3 !!
But I guarantee KM and his non existent PR and IR teams don’t have the ability to even make turn over in my sleep
Bon soir my good friends on this board - a brotherhood we truly are
Marjac I will be up bright and early on your great day
Alm
Alm
Marjac
A win will be beyond words
If anyone can it’s you ….
Alm
Mldb
Price depression to these levels are not conducive to a sale of the company - to get 10 dollars a share the SP would need be above 5 to get 15 above 8 - it’s gone down too far
I don’t see these levels as price depression manipulation but as a market reaction to bad decision by management Poor leadership and lack of direction
I am sure the company would be one wanted by big pharma. And I am sure Amarin wants to be sold
Question is price
Amarin may want 15 plus
Big pharma 10 or less
Time will tell which way this all pans out but it’s a very unpleasant place to be in presently for long shareholders !!!
Time - and a couple of years that is -should see SP recovery to above 10 and beyond
I can wait -
Alm
Amarin share price ahead
Well the shock of where the share price is now and the abject failure of Amarin to mount a positive PR campaign which might have kept the SP away from these levels leave one shuddering - thus far KM the salesman - has not grasped that being CEO is not just about selling V pills but selling the business of the stock market
Amarin are mounting very successfully a no information campaign which is destroying the SP
Every scrap of positive information should be bounced across the media airwaves ….KM may get V sales moving over time but as a CEO he has failed to re write the PR ethos of Amarin - indeed he has clearly never addressed this incredibly important issue
What stock market listed company operates with a no reply IR department ? Amarin have not got an IR department - it’s shocking the same way it is shocking that have no PR department
Simply beyond belief
SP is much about perception - with Amarin there is no attempt to create perception
SP in a years time - as matters stand -I am of the view that it is impossible now in a 12 month time frame to form a view - there are some possible positives for example a Marjac win /infringement case progress but not matters you can rely upon
In two years 10SP - by which time Eu V sales and Row prospects assist
In three 15 SP
Or bought out
But ideas of any consideration of certainty of direction have disappeared in the KM reign
Alm
Marjac
Wishing you all the success that you most certainly truly deserve in this crusade for justice
Without you it would never have got off the ground
We are all -Forever in your debt
Alm
Rose
It will come good
Alm
Rose
You and I are both in the same place
As are many others - the greatest regret thus far in my investment life was not selling at 25
But in two years we will be back up to 10 maybe 15 ??or bought out … that’s why I am sitting tight and parking the daily ups and downs of the share price
There is frankly no further downside in this current share price so only one way it can go
It’s all about sitting tight and waiting if you can
So don’t get despondent … better times will come
Alm
Rose
I think his reference to patient choice was meant in this context
1 there should not be any switching in cvd indication because that is in effect infringement
2 and to do so without the patient knowing it is being done or gaining consent is a further wrong because the patient also has the right to chose the labelled product for which he has the prescription
The patient has the right to refuse substitution
So come what may the patient can prevent switching if he is made knowledgeable of his rights
Amarin sees part of its attack on switching as being -don’t do it because it infringes and -don’t do it because the patient has rights which are being ignored and overridden - and patients exercise your rights !!!
KM one can easily see is very directed to the market and sales in that market
Wall Street does it seems no longer place any value on future potential as regards Amarin - the USA market is uncertain and stagnant or indeed shrinking they may say - Europe is downstream and uncertain
Infringement litigation may change that perception as to USA
If Judge Andrew’s does not dismiss generics are going to be playing Russian roulette with that litigation - Amarin loose - so what ? no worse than we are now - Generics loose - big damages and only stick to high trigs sales thereafter - not economic path - settle …..
So KM sees his job as delivering sales now and in the future - but watch space with litigation possibly changing the dynamic
And if for example Germany demonstrates significant and growing sales( it being the first EU market for Amarin )then such will wake WS up to the potential for sales in rest of Europe and indeed beyond
Now active investors and big Pharma may be smarter than WS and see that potential or indeed the extent of that potential sooner than WS - and snap up Amarin -
and litigation point after dismissal lost by generics may be key time of interest for BO - which may time close to how German market is moving
So you can see next 6/12 months being interesting
But it’s just my view
Alm
Piper presentation
Bidmark thank you for link
Very worthwhile to listen to Karin - you should all do so …
Second detailed presentation I have listened to in a week
Karin is very bright very knowledgeable very focused
A great public speaker - I forgive his “you knows “
I see him as a extremely clever capable and determined man
Over the next year or two he will turn round Amarin - if he has the time available… BO stops him of course but until there is he will push this company forward
Amarin needs good outcome in litigation to assist him
- Marjac and infringement - may yet go our way
I still do not understand why Rule 60 not taken up !!
But otherwise he is doing the right things … he will no doubt have to push the Amarin team hard as hell to get there
He is not in my view a bullshitt talker .. things are getting done and fast - he means what he says
Alm
Raf
Visual impression is one where he looks like he needs to be on Vascepa - shame he didn’t do a better job in the trial and he as a consequence has probably been switched to GV -
Alm
Lizzy
Agreed JT was quite possibly on dangerous ground !!
Doubt we will ever know !!
Alm
Jasbg -KM presentation
JT was “robust” - KM -is “you know”
I am being perhaps over critical - but he could drop the you knows !!
It was a long quite detailed presentation -one designed to show that there is plenty of scope for V to sell sell sell over many years ahead all over the world
However -from this it is quite clear that Amarin has a great deal of ground to cover - like the whole world -and a small company trying to cover the whole world is asking well rather a lot !!!
A lot of time. A lot of money
It was also very clear that Amarin / KM will listen to any proposal that makes commercial sense ( indeed KM could almost have been holding up a For Sale sign so obvious was it
The problem of carving off bits - countries - regions to partners / agencies - which might on a case by case basis make commercial sense is that this may make the whole pie less attractive - but KM made it clear that carving off bits was some way down the road- couple of years off at least ( if it is to happen at all ). -and thus the whole pie is presently on offer Save Canada China Lebanon - but these will bear some fruit in any event
Of course - jmo from the presentation
Alm
Lizzy …. We just don’t know what if any offers have been made for Amarin and by whom ….
In considering any offer the board has to decide whether to recommend such an offer to be accepted by the shareholders
Shareholders can decide whether to accept or not
A board I suppose might ask significant shareholders view of what might be acceptable as to price - although they would have to be careful not to favour such a party or parties with what might be considered inside information
The Board will thus have the view of others as well as their own and as their advisors and this will add colour to negotiations no doubt
Let’s hope such negotiations are on there way … but it would be very helpful for the SP to move on up to add even more colour !!!
Alm
Lizzy
I don’t think that can be so …
There is a difference between an agreed offer … and an offer
I do not think a board / CEO need disclose offers made - we see here posted frequently the history of the various to and fro offers made between companies where one buys out the other
The first offer is not likely to be the agreed and thus final offer. And such may take many months to be reached
The company does not disclose these offers and carries on business as usual including company presentations
Alm
Momoney
Can you calculate the %shareholding that Sarrisa had for these companies before they were bought out ? What stake did Sarrisa take to move the companies into a BO?
As a poster pointed out Sarrisa may have already a much larger stake than that shown in the filing because of the time lag involved
It would be interesting to see the growth of stake by these activists
It would also no doubt over time push up the SP in itself given if they continue to buy in
Alm