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Why would the hedge funds have fought so hard to POR7 and simply settle for $200M WMIH spinoff? Its not even pocket change when they could potentially recover 10's of billions if they keep the lawsuit up...
Of course there's always a chance they were compensated under the table by JPM/FDIC and leaving the retail holders out in the cold.
However, if no such conspiracy existed...there are definitely remote bk assets worth a lot more than $200M coming to class 19 and 22. I just font know how or when.
JPM would only have to report if they were giving away mobey to the hedge funds...they wont need to report if they simply approved a loan to the hedge funds at low interest rates
I dont plan on doing that but the possibility remaina if you are to distribute billions onto hundreds or thousands of retail recipient...I'm highly suspicious that none of the big hedge funds have filed any complaints...as if they were satisfied with settling for a measly $200M value in WMiH and gave up on billions after fighting all the way to POR7...I know they are greedy so I suspect the reason they are so quite so far is perhaps they cut a deal with JPM/FDIC.
LG, would you agree that if we dont see anything for escrow by Jan 1 2023, that we have been robbed? I dont like conspiracy theories but it is much easier to pay off a few hedge funds than to release money to a few thousand retail who will start parading around the internet and show the evidence to the world. Also, JPM could have simply given the hedge funds low interest loans for the last 14 years and they could have made billions off the cheap money...and no one would be able to prove that they were compensated for the Wamu loot.
I cleary remember reading an article about TD offering around $30B, or $26B for the east coast Wamu branch....It is scary that none of these articles can be found now...How powerful are the forces behind this that can scrub these records!?!
Can we all agree that if old Wamu equity does not get compensated with remote bk assets by the end of the year, then we have been robbed?
I truly hope we hear something by May 2nd but if nothing comes up, I will patiently wait for this to end of 2022. If nothing comes to escrow by Jan 1st 2023, I will then safely assume that we have been robbed. Maybe the hedge funds somehow made an under the table deal that retail is not privy to.
I am 100% positive that the hedge funds did not fight that hard to POR7 just to sign away everything for a measly $200M payout with WMIH. $600M if you are Tepper and cashed out at $3 years ago.
If retail gets nothing after all these years, then it is 100% plausible that the hedge funds cut a deal with JPM and FDIC. Maybe they are getting a kickback on other financial deals like cheap financing through JPM in exchange for letting retail die on Wamu estate.
Maybe they gave up $30B on Wamu in exchange for cheap financing during the last 14 years from JPM. We would never be able to prove it and they would have been able to rob us "legally".
Thanks LG. You still pretty confident it will happen by march 31st?
LG, when did you receive this update from Alice? Is it recent or back before she settled her lawsuit?
Thanks. It would be nice if we can paid while the market is in a nose dive now.
I hope the hedge funds have not found a way to get paid without retail. I'm at peace with loosing on escrow as long as the hedgies are in the same losing boat. There better not have been any under the table dealings between the hedge funds, the underwriters, and the LT estate.
We all get paid or none of us get paid. There will be hell to pay otherwise.
It is also very suspicious that the LT chose today to erase our markers. Why not a week earlier or the first trading day in January after the LT officially closed out? If the escrow markers have no connection to Coop, then why wait until Coop earnings announcement to erase our markers? It cant be coincidental...
Also, some people on the board were notified by their brokers last week thay their 1099 will need to be updated after the 11th..This was all planned. Someone on the inside knew the deletion is coming today.
LG, that's why I'm hopeful we will get closure tgis year. Number 2 must happen one way or another. I believe IRS will not grant them anymore extensions.
March 22nd should be the latest we should have to wait. If there is nothing, then I would like them to try deletinng the markers from our accounts...I want to see what the hedgefunds will file if such deletion action occurs.
Happy New Year Everyone! May 2022 bring a closure for all escrow warriors....one way or another.
Yes, that is a possibility...while retail has been foolishly bickering on here about uncontrollable silly issues as the 75/25 vs. 22 takes the lion share...the pros were probably identifying the remote bk assets and filing claims against them...outside the purview of the bk court.
I always suspected that the escrow markers gave you a "right" against those remote bk assets but not an "automatic" return of those assets..One may have had to identify those assets and claim them.
Its sort of like lost and found at the police station. They police are not obligated to find the owner and return the assets..The owner must go to the police and provide proof that the asset belong to him or her to retrieve it.
I never said the Hedge Funds got screwed.
Tepper is no dummy.
Stox, something doesn't add up even if we dont get paid by March and complete theft took place...Why were the employee claims dragged out all this time...and Alice's claim? I think there must be a reason for them to drag out the cases. If they were planning to rob us from the start, why not just dismiss the cases earlier and kill off the escrow markers?
JP Morgan also publically stated they did not buy the Wamu loan portfolio...so where did the money go?
Maybe dragging this case out longer, and not closing the LT, will allow them to avoid paying the escrow markers based on some some statute of limitation loophole?? Maybe they can simply claim the remote bk assets were simply "abandoned" after all these years...and avoid repatrioting them to the estate.
Getting real close to end of year...where's our escrow payment? I cant believe the hedge funds will allow this into the next year with all the tax changes coming....This is insane.
Hi Az, I know you no longer address the timing issue of "when?" for our payout but is there a deadline date when we should start worrying if we dont see any payment by? end of this year? end of next April? end of next year?
goodie, I agree that is not likely...but just playing the devil's advocate..If it does happen, if any remote bk assets return, and they somehow bypass the original equity (escrow owners) and go directly to current Coop owners, I would think there would be insider trading charges and lots of litigation to tie up the money for another 10 years.
Red, thanks for the reply. I also agree with your assessment of Robert Williams and Doreen Logan being retained as a good evidence confirming exiatence of remote bankruptcy assets....whether they will ever reach escrow is still debatable.
But I do think of those assets do exist, and they somehow bypasses escrow owners and go directly to Coop, then I think we will be looking at insider trading charges...and 10 more years of litigation!
Lodas, I'm not talking about assets coming back from LT....The question was whether the remote bk assets would require the LT to officially close (final IRS filing) before they can be released.
Red, in your experience, what event would trigger the final release of these accumulated residuals back to escrow? Does the LT officially have to close and file the final tax return first?
What event are we looking for? Also, can the trustees technically hold back the release until the last mortgages are paid off? or is there a stilulation in there that requires the trustee to release the fund once a certain event triggers it? i.e. end of bankruptcy, closing of LT, closing of FDIC receivership??
I agree. I think $30B in residuals is very likely...just my gut feeling...hoping we get closer to Dr. A's testimony in court for $86B.
Red, even if the figures are cut by 2/3, that is still a big chunk of change for escrow...$45B is still a windfall
What do you think is a likely residual number in your professional estimate?
I'm not arguing that the LT is done...no money left...but could the official closure of the LT (final tax filing) be delayed as a form of control to delay the release of money from the remote bankruptcy trusts? Maybe the DSTs cant release until LT officially closes.
I think the LT not closing is a delay tactic...Maybe the remote bk assets must distribute the interest collected on the condition that LT closes ..so they just keep delaying closing the LT to legally stop the release of our escrow money...Maybe Rosen just wants to give us the middle finger...delay as long as IRS allows
Thanks jb. As the year comes to a close, I'm convinced that we should have heard a corporate action from Coop by now if escrow money is somehow tied to Coop...since we have not, I'm inclined to think that the DSTs holdibg our escrow funds are either required to distribute by year end or we are pretty much screwed...
LG, it seems like we will not see a corporate action from Coop regarding our escrow...Our only hope seems like these DSTs are 100% independent from the LT, Coop, and FDIC...and somehow they are required to distribute by end of year..Is this the correct assessment?
Does anyone have contact with Alice Griffin? Does she have any more inside rumors of escrow payout? Last I recall she claimed she had anonymous insider telling her that the brokerages were readying payout to escrow.
We have about 2 months left until end of the year. If it doesnt happen this year, I dont think our odds are looking good for escrow.
LG, wasnt the original filing something about not being able to trade with insider info? So shouldn't we be seeing some sort of 8k filing today?
Is tomorrow the day when the CEO is able to sell his stock? presumably after disclosure of some material info?
I tried placing a small order to buy some uq escrows...it allowed me to enter the order but when I click on "Review Order" the page just simply goes blank. Then I check my order page and nothing is there
Can anyone verify that they could do that before? or is this a recent change? I dont recall being able to even enter the order entry page before.
Raj, I would agree that has been the case historically, but since we are in the endgame, its worth checking out any potential updates...even if they end up being false flags.
I think with the recent emergency court case with Alice Griffin, I feel something may be revealed in the near future...like in the next 30 days....otherwise, why the urgent need for the emergency court case?
You may be right. My TDameritrade account is now allowing me to the option to trade escrow markers (add or reduce poaition). I dont recall having that avility before. However, my Schwab account still doesnt allow me to trade them. Something changed at TD ameritrade?
Does escrow maintenance by DTC cost LT any rexurring fees? If so, who is paying those fees if the LT is now closed?
Thanks. I'm going through his old posts and couldnt find it. I'll take your word for it. Thanks for the update.
AZ received a confirmation email from Doreen Logan regarding LT closure? I must have missed his posting. That's good news. Did he post the email?
Is the LT closed for 100%? There hasnt been any filing.... Is there anyway we can contact the court to verify the state of LT? Does anyone know?
The settlement was between DB, FDIC, and JPM. DB was suing FDIC/JPM for billions for put back claims as trustee for class 17 WMB bonds. And instead of getting money back from JPM for putback claims, they ended up paying JPM $600 million to settle in 2016...very suspicious.
I suspect the loan assets backing class 17 were performing much better by 2016 settlement time then when they first brought up the suit in 2008 at time of WMB takeover.
Class 17 is still owed $13B and FDIC is still claiming there is no money left?? and DB as trustee pays JPM $600M?? instead of receving money for putback claims... And class 17 is not crying bloody murder ?!?
Something suspicious no??
If they are aware of the event...even if its a year away, they must
disclose it
BBANBOB, as a public company Coop would have to issue an 8k stating that possibility if that is the case...as it is a material event for all current Coop shareholders...especially now that the LT is closed.
I really think Coop must be totally financially separated from the old estate...otherwise they would need to issue an 8k now.
If we are to get anything back from remote bk, I would imagine it would be cash payments for escrow to catch us up for the last 13 years, and they cash dividend going forward if anything left after.
I doubt Coop would materially benefit from those assets...otherwise 8k should be out by now.
Yes, and they haven't been paid yet...The question is can FDIC-R clawback money from remote bk assets to pay class 17? Does escrow need to wait until FDIC close out the receivership?