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Kag oh Kag where art thou Kag? Did you run away again after your attempted attack on me backfired? Still waiting for proof of 18+ million restricted shares...if you can't provide that, an apology would also be acceptable. That will be the day when the great Kag actually stoops to that level!
I'm fully prepared to dust off the old duntz cap as soon as you provide the goods.
erthang: great post...GoldSeeker: if you believe after your belated "foray into the filings" that BOCX is a shell to milk money from the public markets, then SELL NOW. personally i don't even think you have a clue what a reverse merger is and how it works, so I can understand why you'd be taken aback by the unorthodox corporate history. you're not alone -- it's a very murky corner of finance that mystifies most.
also, if you believe that ABT is unlikely to continue to the licensing agreement, then SELL IMMEDIATELY. even if you believe Moro is an honest Joe, if you have lost faith in the ABT deal get the F out of here you're in the wrong place.
Kag: I'm still waiting for the proof of the 18 million restricted shares. Unfortunately it appears your theory rested on 18 million shares that were restricted years ago but have long since been unrestricted...rather than just putting on a duntz cap and moving on, you have decided to take the 5th it appears. What a shame...I was hoping you could show me 18 million restricted shares because that would be very good for us investors!!!
LOL mysscat that's an interesting point re website. I mean, if they're going to be armchair investors they at least should read all the public info!!!!!! There is a lot of stuff on the website that is not available anywhere else.
GoldSeeker: I'm off for a long day (We're taking a helicopter ride) and rushing so I cannot straighten you out right now...I will say you're looking in the right place but you have some of the facts mixed up. Keep digging...If you still have questions I'll be back later. I'm not kidding on this -- DC-Steve at the RB board is an excellent source regarding the corporate histor...he has it down.
Kag: Don't change directions. I asked you to show me in the FILINGS the proof of 18 million restricted shares. You attempted to do so by posting an SB/2 which documented 18 million shares all right -- unfortunately virtually none of them were restricted though. So please cough up the proof or put on a duntz cap and leave me alone. In my opinion Moro is a brilliant scientist but ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS on the business end of things, so I will trust the audited, SOX and GAAP compliant regulatory filings on this one -- NOT an internet message board transcription of an interview with Moro. And to my knowledge those regulatory filings give no indication of some 18 million restricted shares. I'm not saying you are wrong -- just that I cannot find them in the filings and the number sounds EXTREMELY high to me based on my understanding of the BOCX corp structure.
Kag: Help me...It clearly states that the shares were restricted for a period of ONE YEAR in all entries denoted by an "A" -- which is basically all of them (see below from the same filing). So basically every share represented in your post has been unrestricted and can be traded publically. One of us is about to put on a duntz cap and I hope it's not me but if it is I'll take it like a champ...but I don't expect you to of course....too arrogant.
I'm still waiting for an explanation of 18 million shares being restricted.
"A. These shares were all issued to non-U.S. persons who reside outside of the United States. The negotiations and agreements relating to the issuance of these shares were made by the Company's officers (who were all Canadian citizens) from the Company's offices in British Columbia. The shares were restricted from resale in the public markets for a period of one year from the date of their issuance. During the one year period following the date of their issuance none of these shares were transferred. Although these shares were not technically issued in accordance with Regulation S, these shares were nevertheless exempt from the registration requirements of the Securities Act of 1933 by virtue of Release 4708, which was the predecessor to Regulation S. "
Kag: What I remember is you claiming that there are at least 18 million restricted shares and me asking you to show me in the filings where you were seeing that. I don't remember you ever validating that figure of 18 million shares. Please feel free to do so at any time...
LOL mysscat I know I bicker too much with the wrong folks and I know it drives you crazy...just can't help myself. When something so ridiculous is written I just can't seem to ignore it...I guess I'm too old with too much time on my hands!!! Now back to glaciers and grandchildren enough of this!!!
kag: 10k, charts, p.r, etc are REQUIRED READING by everyone who owns the stock. However, they are not enough -- that is my point. If you are relying only on the public info, you are an armchair investor. Go speak to any fund manager, or read Buffet, Lynch, and the other greats. Armchair investing will not cut it. You can rationalize this point until you're blue in the face and it won't change the simple fact that smart money gets in front of management for the extra edge. That is a universal tenet of institutional investors with a long-term investment timeframe.
I know the filings, PR's, etc backwards and forwards for every investment I make. But that is not enough. There is no edge there. Don't confuse blind trust in management with the importance of building a relationship to extract verbal and physical "clues" and "cues" and other information you will not find sitting on your computer doing due diligence.
You're too young to be this arrogant...I've seen it before with schoolteachers like you...bad habit. Don't be afraid to learn something once in a while.
If you are not good with people, that is another issue...but don't rationalize away the importance of getting in front of management as some young investor on this board might actually use that as an excuse to cheat himself out of one of the most important aspects of investing.
Kag: Success in the market is about edge. Everyone can read the 10-k's, P.R's, charts, etc. There is no edge there whatsoever. One gets an edge in the market via:
1) rapport with management
2) industry contacts (ie in this case diagnostics, etc)
3) smart money contacts
Virtually every fund manager and institutional investor on the planet competes for face time with management. Hedge fund analysts are even taking behavioral analysis classes from CIA operatives so that they can better use the valuable face time with management to figure out if they are confident, honest, etc. You gotta be kidding me man...seriously. I knew you were a novice but this is a bit extreme. Go put your duntz cap on and give me 20.
lol you guys are either shy or lazy, but i know a poor attempt at rationalization when i hear one. "i strongly disagree with your suggestion that an investor should build a relationship with the management at BioCurex" --- that is truly one for the ages!!!
OT has anybody ever seen a big chunk of a glacier fall into the sea? Wow what a great experience. Makes a noise comparable to a sonic boom, and sends ripples throughout the water such that our cruise ship bobs up and down. Great stuff...
I won't be back home for another two weeks...please don't let this thing break .50
GoldSeeker: that is a poor excuse and I'm a bit disappointed as you seem like an intelligent young investor minus a few boneheaded comments here and there.
RULE #1 for long-term investments is GET TO KNOW MANAGEMENT. PERIOD END OF STORY. NO EXCUSES! The internet has provided a wealth of tools for investing, but nothing can replace direct contact with the folks who you are giving $$ to.
Listen to your elders on this one.
GoldSeeker: Again, I strongly encourage you to build a relationship with management...you clearly do not have one currently. As longterm posted, BOCX management is closely collaborating with ABT, both via correspondance and regular face meetings.
Go look through ABT's archives...they do not strike deals with promising cancer marker companies every day. They have a very strict selection process. When they do in fact select a licensing partner, it is because they believe the technology has major potential. Thus, they roll up their sleeves and put their army of scientists, lawyers, and administrators to work. This is a WORKING RELATIONSHIP...
GoldSeeker: first of all please go build a rapport with BOCX management rather than hiding on the boards and expecting everyone else to do your heavy lifting...Now, management can freely comment on their opinions and feelings. And, like I posted, management has indicated to me that they feel they are nearing the finish line with ARCHITECT integration. Enough said, take it or leave it.
Re constant contact with ABT...I don't understand -- "cut and dried technology" ?? What do you think they've been doing all these months? This is not as simple as popping a tape cassette into a tape player and listening to music. YES, there is work involved. And YES, BOCX has had ongoing collaboration with ABT.
I'm a little bewildered... You're usually a bit sharper than those questions would indicate.
for anyone that actually SPEAKS to BOCX management rather than simply participating in intellectual debates on this board, it is apparent that:
a) BOCX is in constant contact with ABT including spending time at ABT offices and vice versa
b) BOCX feels they are near the finish line with ARCHITECT integration and completion of colorimetric test
c) ABT will not directly tell BOCX what the preferred regulatory path is, but BOCX has been led to believe via discussions that 510k with an initial indication of prostate cancer diagnosis is the winning door.
Before the "poo-poo" crowd jumps on me and says that you cannot simply trust what management says, I will offer the following advice: if you believe management would outright lie on these points, sell your shares immediately and stop wasting your time on this board because you have NO CONFIDENCE in management.
I, for one, do have confidence that management is not lying for two simple reasons. First of all, some bigtime reputations are on the line (ahem Phil Gold). Second of all, management said for months and months that a large licensing deal was in the works. NOBODY believed them. But...THEY FRIGGING DELIVERED! That is no small feat. They made a monumental promise, and they delivered. So in my book they are innocent until proven guilty.
Kag: my understanding is that BOCX uses a "curve fitting" computer application to determine the exact sensitivity/specificity cutoff value after each clinical testing run. this is explained in the 30 page lung cancer data that BOCX published in response to the SEC stuff -- the paper is in the due diligence post that we put together.
the actual cutoff value will somewhat be set by BOCX but also played with by doctors in the field, as they do with PSA. docs will combine common sense, patient history, and the available data.
LT: i have heard the same from management.
Kag: you have to get a better understanding of SPECIFICITY, not just sensitivity. BOCX achieved the 90% sensitivity when they lowered the specificity mark all the way to 84%. They achieved the 68% sensitivity when they RAISED the specificity mark all the way up to 97%.
By creating more false positives, the test becomes more accurate.
97% specificity though, is a very unrealistic expectation based on the market place where tests have specificities as low as 50% range. BOCX can easily look for a specificity of 75 - 80% or so, at which they seem to consistently achieve sensitivity in the 90%+ range.
kjg: I guess ABT doesn't qualify as "smart money"...LMAO.
mysscat: IMO if you're looking to add to NFLD this slight pullback off of the breakout highs might be a good place. i just got word from kammerman that he will be attending an NFLD closed meeting for analysts and institutional investors at the Yale club in NY where John Hopkins and Denver Health trauma folks will be presenting. The event will be on August 8th and has not been made public yet. Also, the earnings call will be in early August and the stock tends to run before earnings and sell off after the call. Lastly, we have the trial completion announcement coming any day now (my educated guess is next week sometime).
Should be an interesting couple of weeks, and then it could get quiet until the Fall when they are releasing topline data.
smiles_to_go: amazing post...much appreciated.
mysscat: duh...i read the sentence totally wrong. my bad. thanks again for the summary...i'm on a cruise in Alaska and the terminals don't have multimedia.
GoldSeeker: semantics are a road to nowhere...
mysscat thanks for the recap, can you please explain a little more about the "alternate quotations" part of the interview...thanks.
Kag: you've obviously lost confidence so it's time to sell, not whine on this board.you came here more rosy than versailles, and now you don't trust management, you don't trust the P.R's, you're doubtful about the test format, etc, etc -- your outlook is entirely negative. time to sell buddy...take your losses and move on, don't just spray your bitterness here. work some overtime hours at the school and you'll make up your losses in no time..
PS: i seem to recall you saying you'd leave the board and never return after nobody agreed with one of your suggestions...what happened with that? LOL.
GoldSeeker: my understanding is that RECAF is related to cell division...since your body is constantly doing cell division, you will always have small levels of RECAF. in scenarios where the cell division becomes RAPID (cancer, pregnancy, etc), your RECAF levels become highly elevated. The 5k unit level seems to be the magic #.
Wallst.net is another paid IR firm...that is no secret detective Kag. LOL. Just be happy the company is shelling out some $$ to address investors outside of just PR's. We're too broke for quarterly calls or webcasts...
LOL Kag you're like a pouting child...enough.
all...i'm at a public terminal at a hotel...somebody please summarize the interview. thanks.
fantastic research GoldSeeker...the booths are arranged in alphabetical order! so much for the myth that BOCX next to ABT at the show is significant...LOL!
good info GoldSeeker...I find it extremely interesting that Abbott's booth is directly next to BOCX's. the mathematical odds of that being chance are very low considering 46 booths, but then again 25 years ago from this new year's my wife's best friend walked up to a roulette table in Vegas with $300 and walked away with over $250k two spins later. she hit #16 twice in a row with all in.
that is a true story.
Kag/GoldSeekr: I don't know where Half_Full is getting his info, but your snooty, immediate dismissal of the thought is pretty naive. It doesn't matter whether the info is "public domain" or not. It matters whether or not ABT's lawyers put a tightly wrapped "rights of publicity" clause in the licensing agreement. I personally view this as very likely, but nobody knows...but I promise you whether or not the info is "public domain" or not has no bearing whatsoever. Go call your lawyer if you want to discuss further.
Sigh...another amateur night at the Apollo.
Kag: you're partially right. The normal process is to submit an abstract. Blockbuster data, however, is most often kept under wraps until the conference where it presented to an eager audience. Every year at ASCO, blockbuster data is released which has NOT been released to the public. That is an indisputable and quite famous phenomenon which has served as the annual "main event" in Biotech for many years...if you've followed the industry for any period of time you'd know that. You will see large spikes in the Biotech stocks on the week of ASCO because all the great data is NOT released to the public beforehand. In fact, if you've been paying attention to CNBC they've been making quite a big deal about how this year's ASCO is void of such blockbuster unveilings.
half_full: love your enthusiasm...a 30% one day gain will do that :) i wouldn't say that this is some dramatic unveiling of RECAF, but rather the beginning of a long process by ABT to establish RECAF as a credible marker. my reasoning is based on:
1) the data to be presented has been published ahead of time
2) BOCX still has no credibility, and neither ABT or any other credible third party is presenting the results.
still..this is potentially a watershed event for us, and who knows if ABT will in fact be discussing RECAF during their presentation, or will be involved vocally in some other way.
exciting stuff...
congrats to those who bought in the .50's...i was getting ready to pull the trigger but i'm afraid i missed the boat.
Half_Full: decent article, but I wish he would read the board as he would be privvy to Rob_Sublime's fantastic info that ABT is presenting right after. Whether it means anything or not, it would have made for a nice throw-in.
is anyone here based in chi-town and willing to do some recon?
lol foam. guys leave the damn disclaimer alone...my (remote) concern was somebody buying stock based on my bullish outlook and opinions, and then suing me later. who knows...crazier things have happened, and i saw some other folks using a disclaimer (presumably for the same reason). also, i try to post accurate info but i'm at least twice as old as most posters here and cannot guarantee that my facts are always 100% accurate -- who would ever make that guarantee except for an arrogant moron?