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Here's my DD For rest of year
Oct 28 Wednesday The Ochi day Public holiday
Nov 17 Tuesday Polytechneio Observance
Nov 21 Saturday Armed Forces Day Observance
Dec 22 Tuesday December Solstice Season
Dec 25 Friday Christmas Day Public holiday
Dec 26 Saturday Synaxis of the Mother of God Public holiday
I read the SEC 6-k saying it was extended to OCT 31... it was signed on SEP 28 which is why I was probably confused.
when are financial's due again? I knew they were extended, but some reason I thought deadline was today?
Stress Test due this weekend?
No Shorts on Athens Expires on 1 Nov?
Of course... I would make the assumption all Large Cap publicly traded companies are holding companies.
actually the ADR is still slightly ahead of Athens...
USDEUR .9067
ATHENS .76Euro
NYSE .885$
NYSE Premium = 4.8%
The good thing is there is no pull back on Athens, and Athens drives the ADR.
I see 65% of volume was a sell...
Things we need to get back to 200 day average:
Stabilization in Greece...
-Details on bank recapitalization
-Greece bail out policy enforcement
-Greece to develop plan to establish a balanced federal budget
Earnings Report
-Any report would be a good start
-NBG has no Net loss (including Turkish bank)
Positive Outlook
-NBG cam generate a profit without Turkish Bank
As each one of those questions can be demonstrated, we should be able to get back to Book Value for bank, if not a multiple of.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-16/greek-lenders-said-to-discuss-debt-exchanges-following-piraeus
"National Bank of Greece spokesman Dimitris Spyropoulos said the lender has no immediate plans to pursue a bond exchange."
"Eurobank Ergasias SA and Alpha Bank AE are considering asking investors to swap notes for shares, said the people who asked not to be identified because the talks were private. National Bank of Greece SA, which also attended the meeting in Athens, may also consider a bond swap, depending on the price in its sale of Turkish unit, Finansbank AS, the people said."
seems strange, the attitude yesterday and past week have not been so bullish, what has 1 day displayed?
I think there is potential here to have an upside... numbers dont match up unless they issue shares slowly, and slowly bail in different classes.
Would be interesting to see what total values of debts are... anyone have last quarters/year financials?
The numbers don't add up for equity...
There is a missing piece to this puzzle
Those are pretty high numbers...
I think most of the TOO BIG TO FAIL banks in the US never have those numbers...
maybe 7.5 on Tier 1... not 9.5
The results will not be pretty
70% sells today... Held pretty well too
307 Billion in total assets, is not the same as 300 billion cash...
LOL 300 billion in cash is a bit much...
Alan Fishman said on the 16th of September 2008 that they had 50 billion in liquidity.
Strange, past week, we'd be at 8-10 million shares on athens, but now only 1.2... someone is playing with this thing, or trying to accumulate at a certain value...
They needed to increase the Share price to encourage the volunteer bail-in.
Decreasing liabilities at the expense of dilution of equity should come out as a wash for overall equity, yet makes the company have less overhead, being good for all parties..
But who would volunteer to bail-in if the equity were headed to Zero
I dont understand why they dont merge, they will probably be stronger from a merger than a sale...
Anyone notice a spike in volume on Athens Exchange for NBG?
They've been messing with Athens stock exchange for a while...
Anyone know if the capitol controls have been relaxed about moving money from banks to brokerage accounts in greece?
You clearly havent been watching this for the last few months, because good news has not helped this stock at all... it has been downward pressure since december of last year regardless of news
IMO shows the government cares about shareholder value...
Volume died... :(
financial's should point us in the right direction...
the last quarter I've looked at was pretty grim.
I have a question here, This bank has some substantial tax advantages right now? In the USA if a company has a large change of ownership those taxes advantages are lost, perhaps that would help us not get diluted. not sure if rules are same in Greek
I saw it under press release when looking at NBG on bloomberg's athens quotes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2015-09-24/aJnze2lLOWHU.html
I still dont really know what it means... I did not understand the series of the NBG-PA shares are series A... here it says series 16
not sure what this means for commons, but looks like preferred shares are being purchased.
Yet the stance their is no money for equity(on Rosen's defense regarding WMI's equity), demonstrated by unaudited reports, has proved to be false.
So why is it we continue to believe this same lie from a different legal team regarding a similar unsettle topic.
I am merely saying that just because a lawyer says one thing, doesnt mean its 100% true.
Well his buddy's George Soros has been naked shorting since he's been in office
I think you misunderstand me.
I'm sure they are reporting "everything" but doesnt mean that they are being 100% honest with their reports.
I think if they were honest with their report, than a lot more claims would be paid, the FDIC would lose a lot of ground on various JPM and DB claims...
There would have been money for equity, and the trial would be substantially different, if even permitted to file for bankruptcy.
I'm just saying that the documents we see are displayed to portray a certain point of view within the limits of the law.
Question, weren't earnings due earlier this month, but extended 30 days on all banks or something like that?
No offense, but everything I've ever seen from this case has always stated "unaudited"
That was on all sides, WMI & WMII & FDIC
My strangest thoughts, though, are the government complaining about the banking system, not the banks... from what I understand they have pretty healthy capital ratios
someone is pulling some strings to recapitalize the banks regardless of the stress test results, and they also mentioned that the stress test would be quite intense.
In that light, I dont know why I'm still in this stock
There are ways to make investments of capital good for everyone... it's the bank's job to facilitate that vision.
Seems strange, after hours seems to be non existent these days, as well as some of the volume... someone doesnt want to play anymore.
I'm here, made a bit today... has to be news of profit or conversion...
Phantom Bonds Menace Write Down of Greek Lenders' Senior Notes
by Tom Beardsworth
September 7, 2015 — 8:52 AM EDT
Writing down 4.7 billion euros ($5.2 billion) of privately held senior bonds to help fix Greek lenders may cost the nation 49 billion euros.
Banks may only be able to bail in the privately held bonds if they do the same to state-guaranteed notes used as collateral for European Central Bank loans. That would potentially hand the Greek government a 49 billion-euro obligation, even as it struggles to pay pensions and civil-service wages. Excluding the state-backed notes, also called phantom bonds, from a bail-in could lead to lawsuits from private investors.
“One potential target for aggrieved private bondholders being bailed in would be the senior phantom bonds if they were not equally bailed in,” said Michael Doran, a partner at law firm White & Case. “That creates a dilemma, as on its face, a bail-in of these bonds could trigger the sovereign guarantee, which would then leave the Greek state with a significant and perhaps unexpected liability.”
Euro-area finance ministers have suggested bailing in senior bank bonds to help refinance lenders after Greece’s economic crisis spurred bad loans, deposit withdrawals and cash shortages. Policy makers have pledged to make as much as 25 billion euros available to support the recapitalization.
Writing down the senior bonds as part of a bailout is a possible option following the completion of ECB stress tests and an asset-quality review next month. Alternatives for filling capital shortfalls include private offerings and European aid. The Greek government may also reach a deal that voids the guarantees and shields the ECB from losses.
Phantom Bonds
The government-guaranteed bonds are the legacy of measures taken to prop up Greece’s four major lenders, including National Bank of Greece SA, during the financial crisis. They are referred to as phantom bonds because the banks issued the notes to themselves to get round ECB emergency-funding rules.
The largest private holders of Greek senior bank bonds include Pacific Investment Management Co. and Carmignac Gestion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Both fund managers declined to comment on their holdings.
Moody’s Investors Service downgraded all four major Greek banks’ bonds to C, its lowest grade, last week. That means the ratings company sees little prospect of noteholders recovering the principal or interest.
Imposing losses on the phantom bonds could trigger the state guarantees and endanger the banks’ access to ECB-controlled emergency liquidity assistance, according to Erwin van Lumich, who runs Fitch Ratings Ltd.’s coverage of southern European financial companies. The program provides as much as 89.1 billion euros of liquidity for Greek lenders.
EU Directive
Bail-in tools under the European Union’s Bank Resolution and Recovery Directive, which comes into force in Greece on Jan. 1, could be central to bank recapitalization. These let authorities exempt some senior debt from losses if the exclusion is “necessary to avoid the spreading of contagion and financial instability.”
Greece could claim this applies to phantom bonds because of the lenders’ reliance on them for liquidity, Van Lumich said. Still, private bondholders could cite directive rules saying bank restructurings can’t leave creditors worse off than if the lender was liquidated.
“If investors are bailed in then there will be those who will try that argument because there is nothing else they can do,” Van Lumich said. “But it may be quite difficult to demonstrate what you would receive in the event of a liquidation.”
Where did the volume go?
Dont we usually average like 8-11 Mil?
I wont argue with you on what actually happens with companies doing a reverse split, but the amount of shares is completely arbitrary to the market capitalization of a business.
A market value of a business should be based on book value, earnings or some sort of intrinsic value, not a desirable share price.
Surprised no one is chatting here...