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Maybe I misinterpreted it, but didn’t Human Rights Watch specifically call Australia an apartheid state currently ? Did you not see that?
You’re right about the Roe analogy, I either deleted it or meant to.
As an aside I rarely encounter an article as poorly written as the one you posted by Clarke and Kenney. The citing of the 2006 election of Hamas as some sort of basic democratic process is silly and it alone destroys their credibility
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/10/30/hamas-flawed-elections-popularity/
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/04/20/under-cover-war/hamas-political-violence-gaza
Palestinian Israelis are doctors in hospitals in Israel and hold government office. Do they have to ride in separate busses? Are they barred from the public square? Have to eat in separate restaurants and stay at separate hotels?
My problem with you is that you cheapen the meaning of serious words like genocide and apartheid to score points on social media. Enjoy!
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel
When you succeed in doing away with Israel, what will become of those Jews. Is there a single example in all of history where Jews weren’t expelled from Muslim majority countries?
"And your incredibly idiotic stance of labeling the U.S.A. and Australia as apartheid states is just that"
That's an astute observation but doesn't really explain why there needed to be a BLM movement in America recently, or this:
"As of 2022, Black people were admitted to jail at more than four times the rate of White people and stayed in jail for 12 more days on average" -
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2023/05/racial-disparities-persist-in-many-us-jails#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20Black%20people,population%20observed%20for%20Black%20individuals.
So, you either think this is a fiction or that American Blacks are more likely to be criminals? Try explaining that shite.
When have oppressors ever truly believed they were practicing apartheid? I guess this is Zionist b.s., too?:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/06/03/australians-should-know-apartheid-still-happening-today
Well, you've moved on and I guess that's what counts.
Since you maybe read books (it's hard to tell), you might be interested in a fairly recent one by the Iraqi journalist, Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, "A Stranger in Your Own City", about covering 20 years of war in Iraq.
It might not seem relevant to Gaza but in it he explains how ISIS in Iraq wasn't trying to overthrow the state (Iraq) it was trying to eliminate it in the service of enabling a caliphate. I submit that Hamas is doing a very similar thing, they have no interest in a Palestinian state they're going for a caliphate, too.
By the way, there are 6 American hostages still being held by Hamas. Have you written Hamas a letter asking nicely to let them go? As usual, you avoid the difficult question, this one as to why Hamas isn't currently smuggling supplies in to Gazans.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099
Now go back to insulting the hapless Trump-ists, it seems to be very satisfying for you.
More Zionist b.s.:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
I know you're sticking with the Hamas Health Ministry stats, because Israel Bad!, but let me ask you a question.
If Hamas was able to smuggle in tons of material to make the tunnels, and thousands of rockets, why can't they smuggle in food and medical supplies for the average Gazans?
Anyway, I have confidence in your ability to ignore non-narrative info as easily as you can ignore your participation in living in an apartheid state.
More Zionist b.s.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/opinion/hamas-sexual-violence-israel.html
In which he gives a shout out to our own resident pro-Hamas crowd:
"And Hamas’s fellow travelers and useful idiots in the West, most of them self-described progressives, parrot that denialism.." (about the sexual violence)
But, the Intercept and it's completely unsourced allegation denying the rapes! Those shifty, lying Jews, welcome to the 16th century.
An oldie but goodie:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
From today's WaPo:
"A team of United Nations experts tasked with gathering information on sexual violence linked to Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel found “reasonable grounds to believe” that people were sexually assaulted at “multiple locations” that day. As part of its inquiry, the U.N. team interviewed survivors and witnesses of the Oct. 7 attacks"
Someone please tell the Intercept and it's disingenuous follower, Sortagreen.
It's really rather sad, if not pathetic, that you insist on trying to conflate the WB murderous settlers with Israel as a whole. Maybe that works for people here who regard random video clips on the internet as a source or those who re-post completely unsourced Intercept rumors as fact. (As an aside, I don't know but would be surprised to find out that Jeremy Scahill is still running the Intercept, he would never have printed this kind of tripe back in the day. Or maybe like you he’s in his dotage)
The fact is that unfavorable views of the settlements polls at about 50% of the Israeli population as a whole. Take my word for it, I saw some guy say it in some video. Or look it up.
While 50% support the settlements, and that's way too many, in my opinion, put it into a real world context (for once). In America, about 50% of us believe in Trump. Would you go so far as to extrapolate on that basis that Americans, as a whole, are Christian Nationalists who want to restrict women's health options and want to deport immigrants and think everyone should have a machine gun?
I didn't think so, but you push the notion that Israelis want settlements and that's a fair representation of the country, because, well, Israel Bad! Really, for what it's worth, I'm not impressed.
Around the NY Times today:
"People are more focused on Israel than on what Unicef describes as a “wave of atrocities” currently underway against children in Sudan, while the number of children displaced by recent fighting in Sudan (three million) is greater than the entire population of Gaza. University students in America and Europe protest about Gaza but largely ignore the 700,000 children facing severe acute malnutrition in Sudan, after a civil war began there last April." - Kristof
"One more shameful phenomenon has come to the surface as a result of the war: Israel is the one country in the world whose elimination is most openly called for....For instance, when Saddam Hussein murdered thousands of Kurds with chemical weapons, there were no calls to demolish Iraq, to wipe it off the face of the earth. Only when it comes to Israel is it acceptable to publicly demand the elimination of a state."
- Grossman
None of this is to excuse the horrors of war. It merely to point out what shameful hypocrites some of you are, that you believe that anything not anti-Israel must be "Zionist bs".
Remember that before this war, tens of thousands of Israelis were demonstrating in the streets to get rid of Netanyahu. When were masses of Palestinians demonstrating to get rid of Hamas?
What a load of disingenuous horseshit. Which you know, but post anyway because it fits neatly into your Israel Bad! narrative.
It's very unlikely that women, anywhere, who are raped and murdered, go to rape crisis centers. I guess those Israeli victims couldn't get rides or made the whole thing up.
But wait, what about rape survivors, they usually go right to the authorities, don't they? Or maybe not:
https://www.wvnstv.com/news/rape-is-one-of-the-most-underreported-crimes-heres-why/
But based on that nonsense, you'll go along with the premise, anyway. Next thing, you'll be citing stuff written by Eliot Abrams or what some random guy said in a random video on the internet.
If you liked the Intercept article, here's another:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66741336
It's bizarre that you'll take Hamas stats at face value but believe nothing that Israel disseminates.
But since you'll believe anything you read, apparently that's not Israeli, I'll recommend this:
https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
John Spencer spouts Zionist bs?
Let me know if there are clues for sale anywhere and I'll buy you some. John Spencer is "chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute (MWI) at West Point" (Newsweek) So if course you know better than he does.
Also, I want to point out that by citing, and apparently supporting, an article that quotes Eliot Abrams your credibility has hit a new low. Abrams was a major backer of death squads in El Salvador, under Reagan, and, I believe, was convicted of perjury for lying to Congress about it. I mean, who doesn't support raping and killing nuns? Then he was pardoned by one of the Bushes. It could be argued that he's one of the architects of our ongoing border crisis, such as it is.
So, yes, Spencer is a hack, but Abrams is a legit source?
Let's talk genocide and see how Israel's latest atrocities compares with other acknowledged genocides, mostly in the 20th century, because we certainly don't want the word to lose its power:
Israel: 25,000 killed (numbers of combatants vs civilians is not given)
Darfur: 400,000 deaths
Rwanda: 800,000 deaths
Bosnia-Herzegovina: 200,000 deaths
Cambodia: 1.5 - 3 million deaths
China: 27 million deaths
Nanking - 300,000 deaths
Ukraine (Holodomor): 7 million deaths.
(All numbers from The Genocide Education Project)
Words have meanings and to use them for traction on social media diminishes their impact.
The population of Gaza is about 2 million, so Israel has killed about 1% of that population, minus the deaths of combatants and minus the deaths caused by misfired Hamas rockets. So realistically, less than that the 1%. Rwanda's was about 25% of the population. Are the deaths of Gazans horrific? Yes. But it's no genocide.
Just like Uncle Leo on Seinfeld, who saw anti-Semites everywhere and thereby diminished the power of that term, so, too, are you useful idiots doing the same with genocide.
I don’t know what the fuck you’ve heard and don’t care. You’ve shown yourself to be interested only in bias confirmation, different opinions are personally insulting to you and inherently worthless
I posted a link to an article by an acknowledged expert and all you concluded , apparently, is that he’s a noncredible apologist. The head military historian at West Point and his opinion is worthless to you about a military conflict?
What “you’ve heard” is akin to Trump’s, “some people are saying” and that other poster’s random guy in a random video citation as a source. Don’t waste our time please.
You’re exhausting, and worse, boring . My mistake was thinking you might be worth engaging.
I just realized you’re a kid aren’t you? I recall you writing you’re married, so I mean late 20’s early 30’s. Your inability to see gray areas, your childish insults, your poorly developed critical thinking skills all point to this conclusion.
For example , according to you, the chief military historian at West Point is a dastardly apologist, for whatever immoral reasons and you know better? Right. It’s your way or the highway.
You’re too young to realize how immature you come off as. Now go on back to calling people names, that’ll teach them!
Whatever the merits of your arguments, your insulting manner make your arguments losing propositions. I expect if you act like this in real life, your chances for a satisfying existence are diminished.
I mean, how does language like calling me "genocidal filth" further your cause? Do you think that hurts me more or do you think you're embarrassing yourself more? Ad hominem attacks often signal a deep seated insecurity about the merits of an opinion.
Did you read the article in Newsweek I posted by the West Point military historian? I didn't think so.
Of course this isn't some random guy on some random video on YouTube, but still:
Dr. Ahmed -physician, human rights activist, practicing Muslim after visiting Israeli morgue w the 10/07 dead - WSJ 11/10/23
"The Oct. 7 attack was premeditated, organized and targeted, seeking to destroy as many Israelis as possible. Hamas tortured and immolated its victims, including children, pregnant women and the unborn. Its men intentionally captured hostages, around 240 in total, reportedly from more than 40 countries.
They had intent. Eyewitnesses told me the terrorists came with tablets loaded with maps of the kibbutzim, blueprints and floor plans of homes, names of families and specific knowledge of service records and where Israeli veterans were living. Others told me that some of the terrorists spoke Hebrew and lured the unwitting out of their safe rooms into certain death."
If you repost something you own it. It’s amazing that now that you know it was untrue you continue to defend it. Some guy said it in some video so you believed it? Nice!
Fuagf must be pleased to see that you think he needs your help to defend himself.
From what I’ve recently read, and I don’t have time to post it now, Mearsheimer is a dishonest hack with a good job, who never admits he’s wrong about anything. I’m surprised you couldn’t be bothered to check him out. So some Jews have gone from pro-Israel to anti-Israel. Is that your idea of a big fucking deal?
I’m still waiting for the links that showed you Israel is the 3rd largest arms exporter. Don’t repost fake news and then act like you haven’t. Unless unverified smearing is your thing
With the arms exporting nonsense and the Mearsheimer reposting, you’re exposing yourself to legitimate accusations that you’re not credible and pretending to be to further an agenda. In other words, a MAGAt by another name
We already know that some American Jews are anti-Zionist or anti-Israel.As I’ve previously pointed out, the American Satmar Hasidim are notoriously anti-Israel, for example.
There is a subset of Jews, American and otherwise, who believe that since the Bible (I think) states that the Messiah will lead the Jews to the Promised Land and since there’s been no Messiah, that Israel, therefore, is a bogus construct. The Satmars take part in just about every pro- Pali / anti-Israel rally in the NYC metro area
You sure you want to repost articles by Mearsheimer? You haven’t done your DD on him, have you?
When life begins is not an opinion, it's science. You are being played by the culture warring politicians who have nothing otherwise to offer voters in terms of plans or a platform.
I'm not the arbiter of opinions here, most of these guys disagree with most of my opinions. But you can't play victim while you're victimizing women.
There's a saying that in any country where the government says you can't have an abortion, they can also say you must have one. See China.
If you're against abortion, don't get one.
Otherwise, you're probably mistaken in thinking that anyone's interested in your opinion about it.
A fetus isn't a person and Jews believe personhood begins when a baby takes its their first breath. I believe there's an ongoing class action lawsuit to that effect in Texas. And yet, you're probably fully in favor of the freedom of religion.
"Jewish law does not share the belief common among abortion opponents that life begins at conception, nor does it legally consider the fetus to be a full person deserving of protections equal those accorded to human beings. In Jewish law, a fetus attains the status of a full person only at birth"
Keep your religion out of my secular existence, please.
"Wonder how many missed the comment about Israel being the worlds 3rd leading exporter of weapons? "
What's that saying, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts? I must have missed the links you provided for that stat, but try this one.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-share-global-arms-exports-2022/
I've written repeatedly that I think Netanyahu should be in jail as well as the WB settler thugs. However, let's not make shit up, ok?
It's curious that you took that statement at face value. The "anti-Zionists" who appear on this board are basically Trumpists when it comes to Israel. They want to and do believe any nonsense that's spouted to the benefit of their narrative.
I wonder how many of you were down with the Jewish space lasers theory?
So easy to punch down, isn't it?
There was a theory at one point that part, or most, of Putin’s aggression towards Ukraine was to take control of it agricultural production.
That climate change has ruined a lot of Russia’s capabilities and they certainly aren’t producing enough for export,
Russia,at this point, iappears only able to export cyberterrorism. They lose money on every barrel of oil they export to Asia and their economy seems to be truly fucked. Numbers to the contrary are provided by Putin and are not verifiable.
ok, my bad, I thought that by you writing:
"There is also the idea that Putin does have some justification for not wanting NATO on his doorstep,"
you were doing the Trumpian, "some people are saying". Glad to see you're not.
By your logic of NATO being on Putin's doorstep giving him justification, you give free reign to the most anti-American activities of Iran. We did have, after all, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers on their doorstep in Afghanistan and, at just about the same time, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers on their doorstep in Iraq.
You're just carrying water for dictators with a flimsy excuse, the idea that Putin had some justification is the logic of his enablers. Ukraine voluntarily gave up all of its many nuclear weapons that were left there after the collapse of the SSSR, which led to the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, in which Russia was supposed to help guarantee Ukraine's security.
When has NATO ever attacked a non-aggressor nation? Putin's supposed rationale was delusional at best but more likely that of a mad wannabe empire builder.
Yup, that will be a fair hearing, I can't detect any bias here:
https://unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-condemns-israel-14-times-in-2023-rest-of-world-7/
Thank goodness the rest of the world is well behaved enough so that the UN can concentrate on how bad Israel is.
Do you know this stuff and ignore it or are you just poorly informed? Maybe you're not so good on context?
https://unwatch.org/u-n-condemns-israel-8-times-rest-of-world-0/
“While France, Germany, Sweden and other EU states are expected to support most of the estimated 15 resolutions to be adopted against Israel by December, the same European nations have failed to introduce a single UNGA resolution on the human rights situation in China, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Turkey, Pakistan, Vietnam, Algeria, or on 175 other countries,”
Part 2, by popular demand (hah) - it's estimated that Germany has taken in over 550K Syrians, who were refugees from the relentless attacks by Assad (that guy's almost as bad as Netanyahu!). But now we see that neighboring Egypt and Jordan are basically taking zero Palestinian refugees from Gaza. Curious, isn't it, you'd expect them to welcome their brothers and sisters with open arms. My guess is that, at this point, they probably equate Hamas with Gazans and vice versa and won't take the chance on admitting a crowd of murderous people with Iron Age mindsets - although it might be some deep state Israeli thing, too.
And, by the way, has anyone noticed that Saudia Arabia has been relentlessly bombing, with American equipment, civilian centers in northern Yemen in their efforts to oust the Houthis? Is that a genocide, too, or is genocide, by definition, an Israeli action? Let's close down MOMA or an airport or two in protest of the way the Yemenis have been treated by S.A., shall we?
I know no one want to engage me and that's fine, more time for you all to trash Trump and his followers and who doesn't love to do that, it's so fun and easy!
I would suggest that Iran, through its proxy Hamas has been occupying Gaza for the past 20 years and its actions have been as harmful to the Palestinians as Israel's has been. Further, that through its proxy Hezbollah, Iran has been occupying Lebanon and through the Houthis, Yemen. Iran is the largest colonizing force in the Middle East.
I know this narrative is unpopular in the Israel bad! colonizer/ oppressor theme so popular around here but it's another way to look at things. Of course everyone here already has their minds made up so, please, continue to wear your blinders.
Ok, I should have been clearer. MAGAts do need to be piled on, it just seems to me unenjoyable to pile on the ones who show up here, not a very heavy lift.. I’m not criticizing you about it, to each their own, although I actually don’t get the name calling directed at them. Unless, of course, they enjoy it, in which case it’s a win-win
All of my grandparents had to flee Europe and 2 came here with fake passports. So, I have no standing to blame illegal immigrants, I’m more of an open border kind of guy, anyway.
And how much effort are you putting into stopping the atrocities in Syria, China, Congo, Sudan, Honduras, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, or Saudi Arabia? They are all doing stuff that makes Israel’s actions pale by comparison.
But, Israel bad! Glad we have that sorted out. Maybe post a link to some of your comments on what Assad has been doing with using chemical warfare on his own people. .
I’m posting about Israel here because I pretty much agree with most of you on the domestic stuff and don’t find it enjoyable to pile on the MAGAts
How can you possibly state that you know I have no problem with gun violence in this country. What a profoundly ignorant and stupid assumption.
Actually, you’re murdering filth. See how easy it is to needlessly insult someone who has a different opinion? Do you wear a t shirt that says “I’m small minded” or does everyone already know that about you?
Listen, oh moral conscience of the Hebrews. This is a war started by Hamas. Please list any wars in the history of the world in which civilians weren’t cruelly sacrificed. How’s the weather, by the way, up there on your high horse?
That’s why countries don’t start wars. Unless, of course, their “soldiers” hide out behind women and children and can hide in tunnels that aren’t available for non- cult member use.
You gotta love Hamas, amirite? They’ll show those murdering Israelis how to lead moral lives. Hostages, meh, what hostages?
What the world needs now, seriously, are more blowhards who happily live on land stolen from Aborigines, in a country that continues to practice apartheid against them, lecturing other countries on how to be moral actors.
Trashing Trump and MAGA is getting the low hanging fruit, so easy and so much fun, the posts just about write themselves. But let's hear about your dealings with the complexities of the personal structural hypocrisy that you so unabashedly exhibit.
I'm trying to deal with mine, most other sentient humans do also, but I mean, how do you do this shit with a straight face?
You think it's cool that MOMA (in NYC) was shut down by protestors the other day because 5 of its board members are Jewish?
Do you have a point, or is this just to showcase your copy and paste skills (which, I admit, are impressive).
I guess we already know your point: Israel bad!
Just to be clear, the violent criminal settlers of the WB are no more Israel, as a whole, than the violent White Nationalists or Proud Boys are America, as a whole. The settlers are running amok because of the inexcusable lack of government control, but most Israelis are not settlers.
You know, in the process of finding that “sarcastic “ quote of yours I noticed how you compulsively insult people in other boards too . I’m sorry you’re so angry but I’m not to blame for your problems.
It appears that you’re a rage-a-holic, a dry drunk I’d guess
Look at your post #457707. Apologize at your leisure
I feel bad about your cousin, nobody deserves that. What do you think is going to happen to the hostages held by Hamas? It’s almost like you sympathize with them but can’t express it
I’m 73 so spare me your self righteous lectures about the Vietnam war era.
My uncle got pulled out of CalTech to work on the a-bomb. How do you think he’s slept at night?
In your real life do you insult everyone in conversation who has a different opinion than yours? It seems to be a strange way to live but, as you’ve pointed out repeatedly what do I know? Just do us all a favor and be sure not to buy any machines that have Intel chips made in Israel. That was you, right?
How many are Hamas willing to sacrifice before they release the hostages?
Please continue to ignore the points about combatants deaths and friendly fire.
And in the absence of other numbers do you believe Putin about the great condition the Russian economy is in?
Do you believe drag shows groom children? I mean it’s widely reported they do