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Thanks Doma - good news! e/
bowWAVE
Intel forcing Microsoft's hand?
Some years ago I think I wrote that I didn't see what would be such a big deal about MS just scanning it's code and adding appropriate calls to validate against the TPM and voila - instant trusted computing. Although slower it would be trusted. And with greater processor speeds it wouldn't be too much slower.
Well it occurs to me, and keep in mind I'm up waaaaay too early, that the reason they couldn't do that is that so much of their code is just too sloppy. There are too many loose ends that would end up throwing fatal exceptions.
Now with Broadwater coming it seems Intel is saying "look, we're providing the sandbox just like we always did but at a lower level we're going to force you to play nicely". I think this is going to force MS to clean up it's act otherwise it won't be able to run on the new chipsets.
JMHO
bowWAVE
Using Vanilla to make Chocolate?
re: http://www.techworld.com/storage/news/index.cfm?newsid=2542&page=1&pagepos=8
I must be having a senior moment, please forgive me and gently (except barge) correct me if wrong but isn't Vanilla occaisionally validating a key utilizing the TPM and isn't Chocolate executing the code within the TPM?
Well if Lagrande is OS and software agnostic (and that IMHO is a good thing - sorry Bill Gates) and ALL software has to be validated against keys in a TPM before getting to the execution playground isn't that like making Chocolate out of Vanilla?
Swirl anyone?
My guess is that Broadwater has one or more great big pipes running right through the TPM. How about servers and routers that are just verifying data passing through as well as executing some code. That sounds like Vanilla and Chocolate to me.
Yep, swirl I'd say.
barge is righter.
bowWAVE
Weby is right. e/
bowWAVE
Unclever - your generosity with entering and sharing so much information is greatly admired by myself and many others.
Thank you for your efforts, I hope to meet you in Vegas.
bowWAVE
OT VH - Excellent! e/
bowWAVE
No No No barge!
The first big money will be a large government contract!
Where is that Sore-old-man Buffy anyway? LOL
bowWAVE
cm - There are riches beyond measure to be found on this board thanks to you and many others.
Sing his song cm, adding a few notes of your own. We'll join in on the refrain.
bowWAVE
eamonnshute - re: earthquake - please check in.e/
bowWAVE
OT eamonnshute the clocks change here every second.
How is it done in your part of the world?
;))))
bowWAVE
P.S. We "spring forward" next Sunday morning.
Oh good grief! First Buffy wants to high-five me and now Gophergrrrrr wants to ride shotgun.
I'll buy my own drink and just sit next to the jukebox if you don't mind.
I miss Yaya,
bowWAVE
P.S. Vacationhouse can I come over for hot chocolate? I'll bring the marshmallows.
barge fights for the dead weights!
And with all of this talk of EDS and WaveXpress and Trustzone...why you're being positively BOMBAST!
Weby is right, but barge is righter and cm is both right. And awk? Let's just say that the do-dah man better step aside 'cause the DD Man is truckin' through.
bowWAVE
Sometimes the light’s all shinin’ on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it’s been.
Hey Buffyguy - let me see if I have this right; you're worried about Wave Systems of Lee Mass delivering software to people with TPMs in their computers and you are heavily invested in WAVX?
No wonder you say Sheesh a lot.
And so what goes?
bowWAVE
Thanks awk. e/
bowWAVE
Would one of you gentle DDers please ‘splain me how the server side would operate securely without a TPM?
It’s just inconceivable to me that one edge platform would be well protected and yet the server with knowledge of who knows how many keys wouldn’t be even more secure.
bowWAVE
Doma -
Wave's "Part" of the Super Bundle looks likely
to be ETS Application software as well as
KTM & ACM Server software to provide MACHINE
Authentication & key Management of TPMs....
The other "Part" will provide USER Authentication
& management through Smart Cards & associated
software........
OK so Wave - Machine or Platform
IdentiPHI - User
And in your considered opinion the third leg of the stool - the applet or application authentification goes to whom?
TYIA,
bowWAVE
P.S. Many thanks for your huge contribution to the board.
O.T. Snacks - too funny; ROFLMAO! e/
barge - this is why I don't think there will be huge ramp up costs going forward.
Wave doesn't have to set up and maintain servers. All they have to do is sell the software and instructions to others so they can do it for themselves.
The profit margin will therefor be HUGE! lol
bowWAVE
O.T. real-world examples of TPM implementations?
Shhhhhhh - don't tell Dudders!
LOL
bowWAVE
yo tweekie - who owns the patents lol e/
bowWAVE
Nice to see Wave bluelighted with Seagate! /e
bowWAVE
I also stopped by John Stewart's wake and although I knew no one there John's brother and mother in law were warm and gracious and hopefully I was able to explain why I was there even though I'd never met the man.
Lady YAYA (Melanie) was so gracious and kind, though as bigtim correctly points out she is understandably shattered by the ordeal. If you enjoyed YAYA's posts and enthusiasm I encourage you to send a note to her, I believe go-kitesurf posted an email address for her.
I am grateful to be a part of this community.
bowWAVE
awk - you are da MAN! e/
OT shoot, buffet - life is short my friends. YAYA's viewing isn't until 2:00 - please lets give it a rest.
Best regards to you both,
bowWAVE
YAYA - now you've really gone and done it!
You die of the same malady as my father 28 years ago in the same town and have a funeral at the same home. And you too were vital and loved and needed and respected and on and on and on.
.
.
.
And it all comes rushing back.
And I'm thankful for all of your posts and what you shared with us.
And I miss the future that's now past.
And far sooner than I could begin to understand all of this I hope I have a big smile and a hearty good morning for a stranger.
God speed YAYA, you're in good company.
bowWAVE
rachelelise I believe you are on the right track with run in the unsecure side with specific calls to the tursted side for coding and attesting?
Then I believe where Longhorn comes in is that the operating system sets aside larger sections of address spaces that cannot be written to unless validated by the TPM.
bowWAVE
Hey barge here's a thought for you; how about "interoperable, yet proprietary".
Mind you it's just a wild thought and I have nothing whatsoever to back it up but what if there were some extra goodies if one had Wave's goods on both ends no matter what hardware one used.
Seems to me I've been focused metaphorically on Wave grabbing a Gorilla (or other large mammal) by a certain part of the anatomy and trying to swing them. But it occurs to me that if they grab them by the lips and the have someone run around the back side and find another suitable handle well then I suppose they could get them to go whichever direction they wanted with a lot less effort. Any cowboys in the house?
Anyway in case I left anyone with the wrong impression with my last post I am very comfortable being long and to wax poetic: I ain't sellin.
bowWAVE
True enough barge, they wouldn't have to use Wave's software for the server side at all.
Of course if the person in charge of buying/establishing the TAN has ever had the experience of trying to mix hardware from different vendors and had a problem with it or perhaps they've bought a SONY product of just about any kind and found out that it's all proprietary they hopefully will be inclined to buy Wave's stuff. Especially if Dell's pushing it because they get a cut.
I thought the last line of this guy's Thesis was rather interesting:
www.infsec.ethz.ch/people/psevinc/TPMEmulatorTalk.pdf
Jesus Molina from the University of Maryland is porting the
emulator to a PCI embedded system. Goal is the development
of a free TPM device as well as an appropriate BIOS.
bowWAVE
Weby, What are you talking about?
MSFT will subsume key management while Wave will handle applet management.
Thank goodness some later posts put out enough information to kill this notion. Thank you AWK.
Listen folks what's good for the client side is good for the server side as well. If the server ain't executing in a trusted vault then it's doomed.
Wave isn't going to run all of the trusted servers, they're just going to sell the software rights for every Tom, Dick and Trusted Joey to run their own using Wave's technology.
What is all this nonsense where some seem to think the client side and the server side are soooooooo different? Don't you realize that it is even more important that the server side be secure and that Wave's tech does that too?
CMON LONGS! You know that Wave demonstrated the whole TRUSTED INFRASTRUCTURE years ago with the Embassy chip on both a client machine and a server machine and the server machine was running back office servlets in a trusted environment.
And another thing while I'm at it, any of you morons (remember that one?) who think that Wave's operating costs are somehow going to skyrocket as more trusted systems get deployed please try and explain yourselves, I'm sure I'll be rolling on the floor ...
There now. I feel much better.
bowWAVE
P.S. in·fra·struc·ture Pronunciation Key (nfr-strkchr)
n.
1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
Cool! e/
bowWAVE
Shoot Shute I do love this board! :) /e
I get auto email from TechRepublic and was pleased to see the following in my inbox, it came in yesterday morning.
Trusted computing delivers data protection and strong authentication
Working within the framework of the Trusted Computing Group, Wave Systems created the EMBASSY Trust Suite and Server portfolio of services and infrastructure solutions. Read this Wave-sponsored white paper to learn how these solutions address authentication, access control, data protection, and privacy concerns.
http://itpapers.techrepublic.com/abstract.aspx?docid=110371&promo=400010
bowWAVE
Snacks - not even Da Bears? lol e/
bowWAVE
Snacks - bingo! It will pay others (handsomely) to promote TPMs and Wave's software as I have no doubt there is some kind of a revenue sharing model working behind the scenes.
bowWAVE
awk -AWESOME! but you knew that already!
Seems to me that Wave's technology is going to be at or near the root of quite a few (shall we say perhaps hundreds of millions of) securely executing devices.
In one of the PDFs you pointed me to I noticed that it said some slides were provided by Orange. For some reason Orange rings a bell in the cobwebs of my mind but I can't recall in what capacity. Maybe someone else can remember or confirm that I'm mixed up.
Hey naysayers, please pardon me for bring up something old:
Wave Systems and Trusted Logic Successfully Implement FINREAD Software Specification In EMBASSY® Trust System Environment
Effort Positions EMBASSY Platform As Leader In Delivering
Next Generation Smart Card-Based Services
Wave and Trusted Logic To Demonstrate FINREAD Platform
at Cartes 2002 Trade Show, 5-7 November, in Paris
Now that's just one thing! And it's now over 2 years old. Think anything more might have been accomplished in that 2 years? lol
Wave - we didn't create your digital world, we just secure it.
awk - thanks for your immense DD contribution.
bowWAVE
P.S. And to think some of the Bozos still think nothing has come of Wave's past relationships. LOL
awk remember when Wave was doing a bunch of work to translate/rewrite C code to enable it for Java? Think it might have had something to do with TrustZone?
bowWAVE
Grateful for the DD awk. e/
funny dig - do you have any idea how fast Firefox from Mozilla is becoming the browser of choice?
bowWAVE
unixguy I believe it was one of the other basher's turn to immediately jump on something positive that one of the longs said.
If you don't wait for your turn you will not be allowed to participate in next months boiler room pizza party for all those bashers who post either under 7+ aliases or can demonstrate that they have severely disrupted 3 or more message boards.
Gees dude have a little class why doncha
bowWAVE
levels cm levels - I don't believe barge is trying to proclaim that Wave is going to have gigabytes of software running on all of the worlds digital devices, I don't think he ever suggested that. I don't have time to parse the articles right now and have no interest in doing so with an eye to trying to prove anything with regard to you and barge.
I believe Wave has stated that they don't wish to be in the software business (that is at least beyond the software which coupled with the TPM enables your wavelet to run in a secure environment).
Obviously if that was their goal they wouldn't offer for sale a developers toolkit.
I thought we had near-universal agreement years ago that Wave would be akin to "we don't make the products, we make the products better".
Both of your views are extremely valuable to me, and I feel that things have played out as a synthesis of the two of them. You have a keen ability to understand a macro view as well as general direction and adjunct capabilities. You can see multiple sides of the object in question. To me barge is gifted at grasping the implications and possibilities of an idea and running way ahead of the pack. Even if the exact details of what barge proclaims as the future aren't quite accurate the lead that his thinking provides render the inaccuracies inconsequential.
I just feel fortunate that you both share.
Weby is right, but barge is righter, and cm is both right.
Best regards to all,
bowWAVE