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It is interesting to note that after almost 90 days since last offering of shares of AVL and EQR, LBHI didn´t sell the remaining stake.
There must be another reasons for these uplistings.
I remember that there was a lot of speculation some time ago about those Notices to former common and preferreds stockholders realeased on Lehman dockets, requesting for tax information. In that case the argument was that LBHI couldn´t reach to all stockholders contacting brokers. If I remember well, only those investors with individual accounts should send the information. Why LBHI would take this way now? Is possible that in the same way, some investors were not reached? A similar note should be more logical. just asking.
My comments weren´t addressed to you. It was in reference to some posters that suggested CTs are not included on this BK.
Why TRUPs would be part of some bankruptcies and not in others? By the way, in the last example there was a 100% recovery in all classes, including some new shares to common stockholders.
I don't think technically they are even defaulting on the CTs but that is just my opinion on how I perceive this BK.
You are absolutely right on this statment.
I appreciate you are reading my comments, but my enquiries were not referring to the POR. The lawyer is an expert on TRUPS, and I ask him about the treatment of CTs under bankruptcy, specifically on LBHI case.
I have nothing to do with. Im not buying either. Take advantage of these cheap shares.
No, I don´t ignore the subject. I mentioned a lot of times before it is a point in favor of a Not liquidation process. But, are you 100% sure that these uplistings came from Lehman?
It eventually survive if it is not a Chapter 11 liquidation. If that is the case, the Trust never will have money to pay so, the game is over. With or without discharge.
People here are misinformed. TRUPS are unsecured creditors and they are under the POR with the same CUSIP and backed by the unsecured subordianted debenture, in the same class so far.
I agree in two comments of your posts:
There is a positive reading on these uplistings.
After the POR, nobody knows. But here I must repeat my discrepancies:
CTS are under the POR. Some lawyers with experience on TRUPS are telling it, in direct and specific reference to Lehamn. These lawyers are not posters of a board trying to guess what is going on...lol. And being CTs class 10B they could eventually discharge them. It would be really funny...
Show me the end of the POR first. Show me the Reorganization, with or without LAMCO.
Not answer doesn´t mean a positive reading. You are reading conspirancy on their silence and imo, you are wrong with that.
Every time we did receive an answer, they said read the POR. And the POR is clear, and these guys give me the same answer. In my words, lol, debentures and CTs are the same thing, and they are unsecured claims. So, they are Class 10B. No default on not payment of dividends, because of these debentures already are in default, with their priority of payments.
Just wait and see.
I asked the lawyers if the CTS would default in 20qtrs or were they in default upon the BK filing
I did receive a concrete answer about the subject from some lawyers with some expertise about TRUPS. I just posted it.
In case my comments have some influence on investors of Lehman (lol). you should be happy buying cheaper shares. We are going to be rich next month, so I don´t understand why people is so upset about a negative statement.
The myth is my word referring to the CTs prospectus reading like an executory contract. The answer of these attorneys was clear enough for me about the subject. I would never buy at these prices!
Fortunately, We will know soon..I expect to see you at Circus du Soleil! lol
better than yours..
How do you know that? Why do you think that an attorney knowing enough about TRUPs to write some articles on legal media doesn´t know about the treatment of them under bankruptcy? Why do you think that you know more than him about the subject if not a long time ago, you had got no clue about the treatment that Lehman will do to CTS, with a lot speculation in every post related (parity with preferreds, discharge, payment or not of dividends and lot more)..come on.
Thank you. Im not selling either. But information is information, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
ok, Cotton, just ignore the post. I don´t like to see so many experts writing without knowledge about BK case and when I post an attorney with experience´s answer, people jumps angry over me, but who cares!..
I ask again, after 5 years, will any of old members of this board going to sell because of there are some negative clues? I think No. I wouldn´t. So, whats the problem? The problem is that there are some traders pumping..
Thank you.
I have no interest at all,. I prefer ugly information later, but real one. What the problem with the timing? The guy knows about the subject and I posted what he thinks about the Lehman case.
Class 3? It is not the case, but if you were right, these comments don`t change anything, I would have a determined % of distribution, right?
are you going to sell because of my comment? I think no. So, whats the deal? Just hold your shares till the big jump.
I just posted the answer from an attorney with better knowledge about the subject that most of people here. lol If you don´t like it, just ignore the post. It is your right.
I specifically asked him about the Lehman Case and BK situation. In good faith, I have no problem to email you his official answer.
Im happy you are making money. I remember yet that you sold some CTs before...As I said, take it or leave it.
oops, I think you have a better answer than that. You can read his recent article here. I think you should improve your DD...
Planning for the End of a 5-Year TRUPS Interest Deferral
http://www.tnbankers.org/legislativeupdate/legislativeupdate_1318.html
Obviously, you are not smart enough.
For anyone interested, his answer is available by email.
http://www.tnbankers.org/legislativeupdate/legislativeupdate_1318.html
Take it or leave it.
I recently contacted an attorney and consultant with a lot of experience related with Trust Preferreds. In fact, He recently released an article about the subject, in direct relation with the deferral of dividends in TRUPS - 20 quarters matter - You can google him, Mr. Tuck, from Memphis.
His answer was conclusive. Zero chance of any kind of a different treatment than an unsecured subordinated claim under the Plan. Zero chance of any kind of payment of dividends, because of the debentures are already in default, probably till discharge. Equity side of CTs is a myth, like executory contract treatment.
An official response.
ok mojo. Im not a debtor, but it is a free board. It is not a matter of what I want. It is not relevant at all.
Maybe I was wrong all the time and in two months all of us are in extreme rich. But in case this stuff finally is a pos, I want to see you writing again, with all your backgroud to support your arrogance.
Excuse me stockmojo, I deleted my post because of I don´t want to start a new discussion.
I hope your backgroud will help you to understand that some of your statments, like the Lamco emerging company, are good theories to share, but without evidence so far. Im not saying that LD is right or not about the subject. Im just saying that there is nothing suggesting that. Anyway, it would be nice to see Lehman reemerging and FV for everybody!
It would be interesting to read some written answer from Mr. Guiliano. Post 29402
I always said it is a liquidation process. A chapter 11 liquidation. It is absolutely clear in the POR. I mentioned before a lot of times, the Post interest issue, but It was ignored. It is clear in the maximum distribution clause of the POR. There are lots of mentions about post satisfaction in full distributions either. Lehman was selling off every asset available.
But I admit that these uplistings, IF Lehman is involved, go in the wrong direction. So, it´s time of wait and see the events.
I agree with you Linda. I just posted the differents ideas on this board. People read what they want to read. I keep a ray of hope like most of them, but Im not blind with that.
For example, I don´t know where some posters did read a reorganization plan with Lamco reemerging. I understand that somebody reachs to that conclusion with different arguments, but there isn´t a written word saying that. It is a false statment. And like this, I read a lot of wrong conclusions with circumstancial evidence.
Anyway, there are some good ideas on this board. Last events are interesting to say the least. These events don´t suggest a liquidation. But there is a long road to infer some conclusions that some posters share. Anyway, I would be happy being wrong. I have enough shares to be rich.
Im tired with discussions over and over again with people without arguments...thats all. I did enjoy the discussion for some time, after all we are in the same boat, but last weeks this board turn to be a pump and pump play, so I think it is time to silence, sit back, relax and coke. you win.
Source? lol
There were multiple discussions about the meaning of "satisfaction in full". Everybody recognizes that an End of POR is a core issue if somebody want to see a recovery. In the meantime, we shared the most incredible ideas about a possible loophole with Cts surviving..
Somebody did suggest that Cts are in the package bought by Barclays. Even, out of BK. A misinformed front desk employee suported this idea.
Another theory suggests they are covered by the Guarantee Trust, who nobody really knows who actually is.
Some people suggests that CT and debentures are a different thing, so debentures are Class 10B, but CTs are cochrades that will survive
There is a LAMCO theory about a new Co, discharge, and CTs being reaffirmed, supported for some source mentioning a 5B package of out BS´s assets being hidden on Marsal house.
Some posters with big feet suggests there is enough money, after a discharge for a survaivance of every share available, including OBS.
Of course, some people think it is a pipe dream and are selling taking advantage of this pink uplisting gift.
Who is right?
Btw, Im not selling. It is lost money till the end.
John M. Guiliano · The Bank of New York Mellon
GLOBAL CORPORATE TRUST, 101 Barclay Street, 8 West, New York, NY 10286 · Tel 212.815.5441 · Fax 732.667.9239 · john.guiliano@bnymellon.com
K uplisting is a new step in the right direction. There will be a nice uptrend next days. I have no problems to recognize that.
and post-bankruptcy interest.
oops, Im not alone.
shorting? are you serious? ok Wayne. It was enough for me. I think we need some explanation about what is going on..I admit it is a very positive signal, at first glance, that uplisting. But I want to see next steps before spending my money (FV + interests)