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Lol how's that Kool-Aid? Good? How bout the carrots? Good? Ok.
Come on, really, with their looong history of promising a bunch and delivering absolutely nothing at all you still think it's awesome that they posted some pictures even though they are saying "results are kind of sort of looking good, maybe" and "it's coming along but don't expect anything any time soon"? Even when they promised the moon in the sky they delivered nothing. So now that they are actually looking far less confident you guys assume everything is going perfect? We should have paid attention to all these little details and little loops they leave for themselves in communication earlier but better late than never.
That thing's nearly 10 years old... How about an Aventador, MC-12, at least a 458...
And it's not a great sign that they are saying they need more time and results are just "seen to be good" instead of just "are good"... Fingers crossed, bid is up somewhat so that's good...
I don't disagree things are looking better with the new photos (and the fact they are still in the country and out of jail) and this little spike is definitely a good sign. I was just saying that it is far too early to get excited about results and even to assume that it will maintain the 1c level. I want to get excited too and I hold a whole bunch of shares but with this particular company time has shown that you should never ever assume anything. Unless something is 100% proven they are probably "altering the truth" somewhat and one should invest accordingly.
We're getting a little ahead of ourselves here if we are already rejoicing. All that happened is someone spent $5 plus fees to make this pop a little. Not a bad move, might make it show up on people's radars etc. but we need to keep in mind nothing at all has happened so far. I think with the new photos the chances are better, yes, but these guys still have a huge history of broken promises, misleading PRs and 0 proven progress. Fingers crossed we break that pattern but not yet.
And before the tin-foil hat crowd jumps in, no, there's no solid proof that this is some huge Canadian conspiracy, more likely just amateurs in over their heads.
Doubt there's any reason to eat anything. Only 500 shares traded at that price and the bid is still very far from that. So this isn't taking off right now or anything, just a tiny blip, at least so far. Still think with no news we aren't going anywhere.
Lol we can always count on WDRP for super extra slow progression, no worries there at all...
Yeah, just noticed, nice! Hope it lasts. But most of all hope we actually finally get some damn news and get the show on the road.
In theory, or with any other company, it does look like we should be expecting significant news very soon. But these guys have such a long history of saying one thing and doing another (where "another" is "nothing"...) that people will only get excited after the news is out, not before.
I absolutely hope u are right and we see at lease 2c before the news, holding plenty of shares. And I definitely agree there is more interest than a month ago. But there has been a whole LOT of damage done to their reputation so... I guess time will tell, fingers crossed.
So you think this will start going up just like that, with no actual news? And to what level? If anything I would say even with some news people will be careful and we won't see crazy spikes.
Could see this reaching 1c fairly easily on just a couple of promising FB carrot-posts or carrot-pics. But not much higher than that, not without something real.
If we're talking about short term spikes yeah I completely agree, this will go up with any kind of (actual) news. 2c or so should be easily achievable. But I'd like to see a constant 10c or more, which with a real product should be no problem, if it wasn't for the past promises. Anyway, fingers crossed, time will tell. At least something is happening.
That is a good point, the whole testing thing is very recent with no publicity. I do hope you are right... But the fact still remains a lot of damage has been done. Without that we'd be way better off right now.
Right now I have the cash to put in and I'm not buying a single share. And won't until something verifiable from a third party comes out with detailed results. Part of the reason is because I already have a good number of shares but even if I had just come across the company I still would not go in. I also would not recommend buying to anyone I know even though I have 3 years ago to several people. And obviously a lot of people feel the same way because what should be a really nice spike right now is as flat as it gets, with no bid. It's all due to the damage the Stooges did over the last 2-3 years. So yes, getting cheapies "could" be a smart move but at this point most people are betting it isn't.
Don't think we should get overly optimistic here as far as the pps goes... On one hand, yes, there is actual progress, no reports of any problems so there is a very real chance something good will come out of it. But on the other hand the years of missed deadlines, false promises, investigations, berating investors and all that won't go away that fast, not unless there are some proven, clear results and a plan to make money out of them. If this does take off it will take a long time for that to happen because they've done a huge amount of damage to their credibility.
Judging from the pictures and assuming they don't need to order more parts, more equipment, more whatever, the tests should be done in a couple of weeks at most. And another couple of weeks at most to get the report ready, PR worded etc. So we should hear something significant in a month or less. If we don't I'd be very worried, not that I'm not already.
Well, at least they're doing something, I'll give them credit for that. Who knows, maybe something may still come out of this. Of course it could be just to cover their butts but at least we will know something one way or another which is good. Hopefully it doesn't take forever to release results. It'd be nice if they could give us a rough timeline for when to expect something.
As others (with an actual understanding of physics) have pointed out before, as far as efficiency goes, microwaves are NOT different in any way from conventional electric water heaters. Efficiency testing is a black-box affair, in this case electricity in, hot water out, as simple as that. It makes no difference whatsoever if the heat exchange happens through traditional heating elements, convection, microwaves, laser, infrared, radio waves, blue smurfs or whatever other technology. And the end user, the one who determines if this product makes it or not, really does not care. What they care is how much electricity does it use for a given amount of hot water, that's it. Exact same test as any other unit.
Just like someone driving a hybrid car doesn't care that there are some extra gizmos in there. All they care about is how many gallons in, how many miles out. Non-plug in hybrids can be very directly and accurately compared with traditional gas cars, whether they have carburetors, direct injection, turbos, rotary engines, whatever. And the exact same tests are used, with absolutely zero knowledge of the technology used in that particular car. Gas in, miles out, that is all anyone cares about. Sure, there are a whole bunch of complex internal measurements for each car and very different between different technologies but they are completely irrelevant to anyone buying the car, selling the car, testing the car's efficiency or investing in the company.
Sure, the technology in our case is very different from existing units and sure it does make a difference to the user when it comes to other things, like servicing, installing, long term reliability, initial cost etc etc. But it makes absolutely 0 difference when it comes to efficiency. So them claiming that this is a totally different animal and testing is totally different is complete BS and just stalling or trying to fudge the results.
Internal testing of individual components in order to improve the product, put it in production and all that is of course different from other units. But nobody cares about any of that and internal measurements make 0 difference to the end user and to how successful the product is. And ultimately to us as investors. Those measurements are as relevant to anyone outside the company as the weight of a specific part, the color of another or the length of one of the bolts used.
Lol what I was "insinuating" is that generally with a test you are supposed to write down a procedure that is fair and as close as possible to testing done on similar products and then not change it no matter what the results. Just run the tests and whatever the results are it is what it is. If you keep changing the procedure and testing equipment and take a long time to test it over and over then you are "optimizing" the test to get the best possible results. Like a student who keeps saying "I don't know that question, ask me another one" until he gets one right and then gets an A based on that.
In this particular case the overall efficiency of the contraption is measured 100% by measuring water flow, delta temperature and current consumed, nothing else. It is a very simple test that is fast and doesn't require any advanced equipment. And it is something that is applied to every water heater out there, regardless of size, technology used, area it is used in etc. The fact that they are taking several months to do this and are looking for some crazy complex equipment, even though numerous similar electric tankless heaters are tested all the time, suggests that things are not great and they are trying to "fudge" some numbers using complex measurements and/or are stalling to tweak the unit until it finally delivers some passable numbers.
"optimizing the tests" sounds a little bit like cheating... Like a student optimizing an exam. But whatever, as long as they release anything at all, optimize away! We kind of knew that was what they wanted to do when they needed the super extra special equipment instead of basic energy in -> energy out stuff.
Aaahh, I almost fainted... The Great Bob came down among us and blessed the company. Quite an event.
Some actual news would also be nice.
Hmm, first of all it says information "may" be released. So maybe yes, maybe not so much. And second it says "summer" but not summer of which year. So... the wait continues. I do agree that we are all involved in some "heavy stuff" but I'm starting to think it doesn't have much to do with engineering, more with jail time...
This is getting ridiculous, almost end of May and not a peep from them other than random FB comments. We essentially had no official news or progress, at least nothing proven, this entire year. Hell, longer really... Ever, some would argue.
Lol yeah, that's the spirit, eat that carrot, mmmm, yeah, eat it all! Good...
That sounds great and in any real company everyone would be super excited and chilling the champagne right now. Problem is with these guys we've heard the "wrapping things up" line for years and it doesn't mean anything at all anymore. Doesn't mean it won't happen, just that it's not looking promising based on (very extensive) previous experience.
I lol'd so hard tears came out. And then slowly it turned to mostly tears...
There were never any contracts, just letters of intent and vague things like that.
And the end game is the same, just instead of saying they will come up with a very specific product they are saying they will come up with a general technology that can be scaled and applied to a family of products, all of them pretty similar to what they were originally talking about anyway. And there was always talk about the technology being applied in a variety of fields, from the very start. So that hasn't changed in a bad way. Of course that's all theoretical because as of right now they don't seem to have anything, whether water heater or heat engine or whatever.
The problem isn't whether they have contracts or not, it isn't whether they call it a heater or an engine and it isn't whether they are involved in some investigation. The only problem is they haven't showed something that can heat water efficiently. No product.
There could be many motivations for this...
Maybe it was always a scam from the very start. And them and their friends bought a bunch of shares really cheap, pumped it all up and then sold them all.
Maybe they genuinely were convinced it can be done and were 100% motivated by good intentions but got ahead of themselves with announcements and then realized things weren't as easy as they thought and now are cornered.
Maybe part of the company is bad and part of it is honest. Maybe they are using Robert and he genuinely believes he has something or maybe he promised them something he could not deliver and now they are all in trouble. Miscommunication inside the company could also account for a lot of this stuff.
Maybe it started out as a scam and then they thought they could actually deliver something, not amazing but real and passable. Or maybe it started out honest but when they realized they had nothing they turned dishonest and dug themselves into this hole they are in now.
Whatever the case may be right now it's a fact they are hiding something hand have been for some time. There can be no other explanation for the discrepancy between what was promised and what was delivered and for the way they treat investors and refuse to give any kind of explanation. Remains to be seen if they are hiding their incompetence at getting it done and the fact they weren't where they promised yet or they are hiding something uglier...
Well where do all the shares in a company originally come from? Not the company itself?
Not to mention that chances are pretty good they were selling some shares themselves, directly or indirectly, much later while doing all that promising. Otherwise what could possibly be the point of going on and on and on about how amazing and revolutionary your product is when you know full well you have absolutely nothing, at least at that point? It's really the only explanation that fits. There were two that fit at that time: they wanna sell shares or they actually have something. There is only one left now... Back then they weren't even being investigated so it wasn't ass covering like maybe it is now.
Anyway, at this point it's all speculation and guesswork. The only facts are that they promised a huge amount and delivered absolutely nothing. Nobody can argue with that. And that's before you even get into the AMF investigation, the ties to some unsavory characters, systematic refusal to answer questions, bullying and discrediting investors, etc... Like I said, as of right now I don't think there is definitive proof it's an outright scam but something is definitely wrong and they are definitely not being honest. And I can't imagine how someone can seriously be defending the company at this point. I don't see a single redeeming fact about them, nothing at all...
I don't know about this whole scheme you guys are talking about with Amyot and all that. I don't necessarily think there's solid proof for that. Not saying it couldn't easily all be true, just saying it's a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains that as of right now they lied to us, they said they had something which they effectively did not have. Lying while taking money (in the form of selling shares) = stealing.
So it's now May. Guess the whole testing in April thing din't really pan out. Shocker... So what's up WDRP, is Q2 going to turn into Q3 and so on? I think they are trying to tire us out and make us give up on the whole thing. We shouldn't let them do that, can't just steal ppl's money and disappear.
So are they actually doing the tests and not releasing any news of any kind before they are ready? Lately it looks like this whole operation just died completely... If they have a firm date for the tests and they know all the equipment is there, etc, why not tell us that, at least on FB or something if not a PR?
The truth isn't always in the eye of the beholder as you say. The truth is just facts. When a company claims they are a month or two away from production and it turns out months later they don't even have a prototype that is capable of heating water what do you call that? They have claimed for several years that they have a revolutionary product that is just about ready to go on the shelves or at least into final testing and certification. And yet to this day we never ever got a single shred of evidence they have anything at all more than a metal box filled with plastic pipes. How can you possibly argue with that? We have never ever seen a picture of any type of grown-up technology, not a single efficiency test, video, third party confirmation, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, after claiming they were 99% done like every other month for years. No matter who the "beholder" is you can't argue with that.
How can you possibly justify their refusal to give investors even a tiny piece of evidence after all these years? Why not take a video, stick a $5 thermometer on each end of it and at least show something like that. What possible excuse can they have for not doing that? Or for taking over 4 months just to locate the equipment needed for testing. Just the fact they want to use some crazy complex setup smells really fishy. All you need is water flow, current flow and delta temperature, absolutely nothing else.
And the bottom line of it: look at how many people believed in the company 2-3 years ago and how many do now. We used to wipe the floor with the conspiracy theory people every day, now you can go for days and days without a single positive post. At this point I don't necessarily believe this is a scam but I absolutely believe they have lied big time about progress and they are hiding something.
We need to find a way to shake them up a bit and actually get some answers... Without that they will just keep on ignoring us and pretending to be all righteous and full of indignation like they did everything perfect. But no clue how to do that without killing the whole thing.
Not sure, don't have FB...
Well, I do but forgot the password and somehow lost control of the email address linked to it, long story...
Anyway they should just put out a PR, not like we had any recently. Explain what happened until now, what will happen from now on etc. Even if nothing happens a decent company should give updates at least once a quarter or so, especially a company like this.
So if the dates for testing are set can we know what these dates are? They said they're set and then nothing... Still looking for an electric cord? Some fancy unobtanium probe? Tickets to Belize?