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Does anyone here know why this seemingly successful private company wanted to become a publicly held company in the first place?
Secondly, quite a few shares traded since the R/M. Any idea where these shares are coming from, i.e. who sold the original batch of shares right after the R/M? And further, who sells back at 3 cents? Pre-existing stockholders happy to finally get SOMETHING for their shares?
I am going to try to call the company but I suspect they been swamped with calls and probably have zipped their mouths until they are ready to say something. We'll see I guess.
Tibby, the EC is aware of the Fitzgerald case and has been for several months.
everett7, I have to run but go back and find the bloomberg article from last week. It had a comment in there essentially saying that the attorneys for the govt have made it clear that if there is any recovery for the stockholders then the govt would want to renegotiate their deal. I'll look later tonight if no one can find it. I know it was linked here on the board.
Hi bigbuyblue2010,
EPA - yeah probably so but you sure won't see me feeling sorry for them.
My Prediction? Well I predict that the humorous "manipulation" posts that predominate this board will continue even as the facts remain that the EPA will not allow an equity recovery.
I think it was pretty much game over for an equity recovery when the EPA et al took the position that if equity received a recovery they would want to renegotiate their deal. I am going to assume that the bonds won't be moving anytime soon for precisely the same reasons.
jaxstraw! You're supposed to be on vacation.....like an hour ago...
Tibby I think you might be on to something. The EPA likely wants all of the Fitzgerald litigation proceeds. That's probably what's been holding everything up all along. Dang! How could I have missed that?!? LOL
Okay, thanks!
everett7, almost 500,000 shares of the B's traded today. I don't follow the intraday like you do. what does the action today look like to you?
Thanks stoman23! I knew someone had posted the docs.
Tibby, you keep bringing up Fitzgerald but no one, including yourself, has ever been able to substantiate that there will be any meaningfuly recovery for Tronox from this case. I beleive someone (jaxstraw maybe) posted the entire case docket online for everyone to peruse. There's no billion dollar figure even remotely there. Perhaps a few million but even that is a longshot from looking at the docs.
The EC knows about the Fitzgerald case.
If you've got some links to substantiate the supposed "billion dollar estate" then let's see them. I'm sure we'd all be elated if it were indeed true.
jaxstraw, if someone wanted to buy large blocks I doubt they'd put in a 50k share bid. That's too obvious. Any sellers of size would move the price up and make those bids chase it. No, I am wondering if those bids you see are actually sellers trying to make it look like there are buyers. Just a thought.
Tronox EC has rival plan, financing. A headline only for now.
Tibby they have to file a plan on or before July 12. They have no choice. See link below:
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0910156/0910156100428000000000008.pdf
Tibby I hope you are correct. Unfortunately, after reviewing the case documents I fail to see how Tronox can recover more than perhaps a few million dollars. I have never been able to substantiate claims of $1 billion for the Fitzgerald estate. Would love it if you could provide more detail.
everett7 my guess is that people are guessing that the POR will exclude equity again or offer very little. I believe this is what's been pushing the stock down ever since it started falling. It's a lot of noise in my book. I'll be happier when they get the POR out and exclusivity ends. Then we'll start to hear (hopefully) something out of the EC.
persistentone, CRT Capital in a research note from January named "Fidelity Management, Och-Ziff Management, Scoggin Capital, Tricadia and Plainfield among others" who would backstop the rights offering.
yes, bonds a little below 100 for about a week now.
Madclown, I knew you'd have a good explanation for the unconsolidated subs in a bk case. I came to the conclusion awhile back that trying to determine an ebitda number from the unconsolidated subs to add back to the public mor's is about the only thing worth digging into them.
uhlmant, I know where you're going with these questions and I like it. Frankly I did consider this before in the Tronox case, i.e. the shareholders keep the unconsolidated subs. Or perhaps even a spinoff. But a friend pointed out to me that the australian sub joint venture probably has agreements for capital etc from the Tronox parent that would be hard to sever. Madclown can probably address this better.
okay, everett7, not trying to boggle your mind here but let me point out, again, that ARCA and AUTO are not trading Tronox for their own accounts like a market maker does. Someone is routing their trades through them. It just might in fact be CSTI. Who knows.
everett7, yes, I think they will try to screw us and I think this is perhaps behind the recent drop in stock price to some degree.
US Trustee - any chance we can get her to buy some stock and join the EC? Heck, I'll gift her some shares...
Thanks guys! Now that I think about it I could probably cut and paste three or four of titaniuminvestors comments into one with really good information detail.
uhlmant, I have a message board question. Can you pin post 3505 to the top of the board? Or, is there a way I can bookmark this for myself to make it easier for me to find again? Thanks!
jaxstraw here is a link to a recent interview with Marc Faber
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/marc-faber-i-buy-gold-i-dont-know-what-else-buy?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29
He has an interesting comment regarding the movement of asset prices, including stocks. The gist of it is that when prices go up there are more buyers than sellers and when prices go down there are more sellers than buyers. I love this guy.
Jaxstraw on the chart for TRXAQ, is that a stick of dynamite for today?
I'm guessing that the environmental claims are the reason for the extension and the recent selloff.
"The company said it has also so far failed to reach a binding deal with other government entities, including state and tribal jurisdictions, over environmental claims."
everett7, congrats on your 900th post to the Tronox board! Please don't stop posting! I've been busy at work the last couple days and finally got to catch up. Your posts usually make me chuckle.
My guess is the drop in the stock price is simply weak hands panicking because of the drop in stock price. Plus it probably didn't help matters when the EC applied for the FRBP 2004 examination. Then there was the change in auditors which some may perceive as bad. I suspect most investors don't really have a good grasp of the value here and are simply trading in the wind.
Gibney - apparently since 2008
http://www.tronox.com/media/bios/officers/bio_GibneyRobert.htm
Everett7 maybe the client who wants to buy tronox is using collins stewart for his bids while simultaneously putting up an ask using stockcross. risky move if you ask me if the client is net shorting the stock he ultimately wants to buy. but like I said earlier it's hard to know what the ultimate goal of the client is.
everett7, honestly, I missed your posting the last couple of days. Welcome back. To try to answer your question, who knows.
Some possibilities:
1) STXG has a client who owns those 24,000 shares you saw and the client is offering those or some of those shares for sale.
2) STXG has a client who purchased stock through another firm, has since transferred those shares to STXG and now is offering some for sale.
3) STXG has a client who thinks Tronox equity is toast and has decided to initiate or add to a short position.
I do not see where STXG is a market maker so my guess is that they are executing a client's trade order. What that client's ultimate strategy might be is anyone's guess. Right now it appears that the client wants to sell some Tronox stock.
Titaniuminvestor, thanks! I am nominating you for the best poster on this board!
titaniuminvestor help us out here. Can we extrapolate the ebitda as shown on the recent MORs to the unconslidated capacity from Botlek and Tiwest to come up with a reasonable post bankruptcy ebitda?
Words of wisdom from the great Billie Ray Valentine -
OK, pork belly, er I mean Tronox prices
have been dropping all morning.
So everybody's waiting for them
to hit rock bottom so they can buy cheap.
The people with
pork belly contracts, er I mean Tronox stock are thinking,
"Hey, we're losing all our money
and Christmas is coming.
"I won't be able to buy my
son the GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip.
"And my wife won't make love to me
cos I ain't got no money."
They're panicking, screaming, "Sell, sell."
They don't want to lose all their money.
They are panicking right now. I can feel it.
Look at them.
mr herzog good question, I don't think there will be much if any effect. Certainly a higher price could be pointed to as an indication that the market knows the equity is worth something. But frankly, the current market cap, even with the stock at 1.50, is so out of whack with the value as to make it irrelevent I think when they hammer out the new POR.
mr herzog I am guessing that was the last bunch of stock the seller had, the final blowout sale. we shall see I guess.
Titaniuminvestor, so Tiwest is the only operation that isn't reflected in the MOR correct?